Author Topic: Heating Options?  (Read 7906 times)

ScottEric

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Heating Options?
« on: May 01, 2013, 08:41:19 AM »
My wife and I just bought a house with an in-law apartment.  The main house has a gas boiler and cast iron radiators.  The In-law apartment is heated by a "gas log" stove in the kitchen and gets some heat from the main house.  This isn't really cutting it since the only real heat source in the apartment is in the kitchen (also, it's probably from the 1940's and doesn't have functioning pilot lights for the stovetop so we want to replace it eventually).  We're thinking about putting in electric baseboard heaters (it's a small five room apartment including the bathroom).  Is that a good way to heat a smallish place like that?

-TIA!

Scott

ncornilsen

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Re: Heating Options?
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2013, 08:49:57 AM »
Do you have good crawlspace access above and/or below?
Do you have room in a utility closet for a proper furnace?  Forced air has so many benefits over baseboard heat, I'd go that way if I possibly could.

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MountainFlower

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Re: Heating Options?
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2013, 09:01:41 AM »
We lived in a 500 sq ft log cabin for many years.  The logs were only 6" diameter with some old single-pane windows, so not much between us and the great outdoors.  This was at 9000 ft in Colorado, so pretty wintery climate. 

We used a direct vent wall furnace to heat the place.  It worked great!   Ours ran on propane, but I'm sure you can get them for natural gas as well

This is pretty much the exact one that we had:
http://tinyurl.com/cex9klj

There are many other shapes and sizes of this type of heater. 

Electric baseboard is expensive to run and not terribly comfortable. 

Hope that helps.

Spork

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Re: Heating Options?
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2013, 10:20:22 AM »
Is a wood stove an option?

While we have central/propane gas heat, we did almost 100% of our heating (about 1700sqft) with one small wood stove.  I believe we had the central heat turned on for about 4-5 hours the whole winter.  Caveat: we do live in the south and we do have LOTS of insulation. 

ScottEric

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Re: Heating Options?
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2013, 11:58:04 AM »
We do have attic access, the apartment is on the second floor, underneath it is part of our unit, so going up from underneath is trickier for the two bedrooms, but probably very easy for the kitchen, bathroom and living room since they're above an unfinished "utility room" which is where we're going to put a washer/dryer, the circuit breaker for the apartment and would probably be a good place for the furnace too.

Anybody use hi-velocity HVAC?  It looks like it might be a little more upfront, but would combine AC and heat which might be nice.  Installing the smaller ducts looks a lot easier/neater than full sized ones to me.

It'd be better to have something that could heat a lot of closed off rooms since the bedrooms are off a separate hallway, so wood stoves are probably out, same with a monitor heater.  (I would love to have a pellet stove, but it's probably not going to happen).

My wife is pretty happy with her idea of electric baseboards, they look like they'd be cheap to install which is a plus.  She grew up with them, but most of the time they were just a supplement to the wood stove. I like that they're cheap to install, but I'm not sure they're what we want even if we're not paying the cost to run them.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 12:07:02 PM by ScottEric »

Rural

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Re: Heating Options?
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2013, 02:56:30 PM »
We've been pretty happy with our window unit heat pumps:
http://www.portablehomeair.com/store-products-AH183E35AX-Amana-AH183E35AX-18,000-BTU-Window-Room-Air-Conditioner-with-16,000-BTU-Heat-Pump,-230-208v_1097616306.html

Depends on the climate, though. We're in the South, so the winters aren't too cold. Below 40 degrees, the heat pump shuts off and the much more expensive backup heat strip kicks in.

Welmoed

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Re: Heating Options?
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2013, 04:11:16 PM »
Just make sure you've got adequate electrical capacity before installing a bunch of electric heaters. You will also need permits, since you are pulling new circuits.

Propane is the most expensive heating fuel in terms of cost per therm, followed by oil. I think natural gas is third and electric 4th, but don't quote me on that.

If you install anything that burns a fuel, you NEED permits and the work MUST be performed by a qualified contractor, especially for propane or NG. There is simply too much room for disaster for improperly installed piping and fittings. You really don't want your house to go boom.

--Your friendly, paranoid home inspector

Rural

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Re: Heating Options?
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2013, 04:37:48 PM »
Just make sure you've got adequate electrical capacity before installing a bunch of electric heaters. You will also need permits, since you are pulling new circuits.

Propane is the most expensive heating fuel in terms of cost per therm, followed by oil. I think natural gas is third and electric 4th, but don't quote me on that.

If you install anything that burns a fuel, you NEED permits and the work MUST be performed by a qualified contractor, especially for propane or NG. There is simply too much room for disaster for improperly installed piping and fittings. You really don't want your house to go boom.


+1 on not wanting house to go boom.

However, whether or not a permit is required for electrical work depends entirely on where you are in the US. I couldn't get such a thing if I wanted to; not only is it not required, it's not available. I do have a building permit which I'm about to turn in in exchange for a certificate of occupancy, but those are available for new construction only. One county over and it's not even possible to get a building permit for new construction as the county doesn't require or issue them. On paper (only), they say they want builders to follow the IBC because state law says so, but they don't actually do anything about it. So YMMV.

Welmoed

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Re: Heating Options?
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2013, 05:08:40 PM »
You are absolutely right; fair point. I live in the land of endless bureaucracy (AKA the DC area), so am kind of stuck on the "permits required" track. OTOH, my sister built a straw bale house off the grid in Colorado and didn't have to get a single one. Of course, she had no plumbing and no electricity, and only a wood stove for heat.

As long as you have competent contractors or other qualified assistance to make sure the proper Tab A is inserted into the correct Slot B, best of luck to you!

Spork

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Re: Heating Options?
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2013, 05:36:28 PM »
Just make sure you've got adequate electrical capacity before installing a bunch of electric heaters. You will also need permits, since you are pulling new circuits.

Propane is the most expensive heating fuel in terms of cost per therm, followed by oil. I think natural gas is third and electric 4th, but don't quote me on that.

If you install anything that burns a fuel, you NEED permits and the work MUST be performed by a qualified contractor, especially for propane or NG. There is simply too much room for disaster for improperly installed piping and fittings. You really don't want your house to go boom.


+1 on not wanting house to go boom.

However, whether or not a permit is required for electrical work depends entirely on where you are in the US. I couldn't get such a thing if I wanted to; not only is it not required, it's not available. I do have a building permit which I'm about to turn in in exchange for a certificate of occupancy, but those are available for new construction only. One county over and it's not even possible to get a building permit for new construction as the county doesn't require or issue them. On paper (only), they say they want builders to follow the IBC because state law says so, but they don't actually do anything about it. So YMMV.

Yep.  We built a house from scratch and the only permit required was for the septic tank.  We did pay an inspector to inspect it for our own state of mind, but ... not required.  We didn't even have a certificate of occupancy.

As for fuel comparison costs... this varies wildly by where you are.  Some places have ridiculous electric rates.
http://nepacrossroads.com/fuel-comparison-calculator.php


Mountainman75

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Re: Heating Options?
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2013, 02:23:08 AM »
If your in the DC area, your electrical rates are fairly low.

Couple of options might be to install some radiant wall panels, or if more heat is needed a pellet stove.
Pellets are easy and neat compared to a wood stove, and the newer ones are mostly automatic.

I've got a few of these in my rental unit out in the Shenandoah Valley:
http://www.econo-heat.co.nz/electric-wall-heater-faq.php

450 watts each, and they really work well at keeping the old place warm in the winter. Really easy to install, and you just plug them into an outlet. Be sure and mount them as low as possible on the walls, as heat always rises.

ScottEric

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Re: Heating Options?
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2013, 07:17:49 AM »
This is totally a job for a professional!  Especially if it's natural gas.  It looks like natural gas would be cheapest for  operating costs where we live.  We are upgrading the electric service to 200 AMPS for the house and apartment anyway.  So we were thinking we'd install the new heating system, whatever that ends up being, at the same time. 

honobob

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Re: Heating Options?
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2013, 07:45:00 PM »
Natural gas fireplace rated as a furnace with thermostat controlled fan vents in the attic to the bedrooms.
http://kiddfireplaceandspa.com/gd34-direct-vent-gas-fireplace-p-337.html

charles_roberts

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Re: Heating Options?
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2013, 06:11:27 AM »
You can order reflectors for the back of your radiators from eBay for about $4 each. The reflect the heat away from the walls and up into the room.

velocistar237

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Re: Heating Options?
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2013, 07:35:28 AM »
How about a ductless mini-split? It would be a point-source system, but if the house has reasonable insulation and air sealing, then keeping the interior doors open will be enough to distribute the conditioned air.

Greg

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Re: Heating Options?
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2013, 10:25:58 AM »
Another option, since you already have a boiler and radiators in the main house, is retrofit hydronic baseboard heaters. There are a couple of brands that make ones that look almost like baseboards.  This way you can use your existing boiler and there's no risk of fire as there would be from the electric heaters.

This is one of those areas where doing it well will be worth it in the long haul.  After installing heaters, consider air sealing and insulation so the heat is conserved.

nawhite

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Re: Heating Options?
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2013, 01:57:15 PM »
Second vote for the window mount heat pump if it doesn't get too cold.

Heat pumps are, by definition, more efficient than electric heaters. A heat pump moves heat from the outside to the inside the opposite of how a fridge works. So any electricity they use will heat your room but also any heat they pull out of the outside air will heat your room. So you get more heat per watt than an electric heater. But unfortunately they don't really work well below freezing.