Author Topic: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?  (Read 9661 times)

casadlo

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I just bought an old (1938) two story brick home. The kitchen is about as old as the house and it's the first thing to go. We're doing IKEA cabinets with 3rd party doors. However, there are 3 windows in the kitchen that are also just about as old as the house: wood frame, single pane double hungs with "storm windows" that are just another single pane layer of glass you hang from some hooks outside the house. This house is bleeding heat. So the 3 windows in the kitchen are the first candidates for replacing, since we're redoing the rest of the kitchen already. We got a quote from Anderson and are moving forward... for about $4650 for 3 windows. This seems insane but it will make a small dent in our heating costs and I can claim the $200 tax credit for energy efficient windows.

Is this still insane? I was really impressed with the engineering of the product and plan to stay in this house for 10+ years.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 02:02:58 PM by casadlo »

Argyle

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2015, 10:45:29 PM »
Yes, this is insane.  When contractors see an old house with its original windows, they swoop down like vultures to try to convince people of the urban legend that old windows should be replaced. It's complete nonsense and profiteering.

We have had discussions of replacing old windows on these boards before.  Do Not Do It.  If you're at all tempted to do it, go on over to the old-house renovation experts at wavyglass.org and post "Should I replace my old windows?"  They will give you the details and statistics about why old windows are infinitely better than new windows.  To name just one reason, the new windowframes will be vinyl, which has a limited life of around 15-20 years.  So even if you leave after 10 years, any canny buyer will know that he's buying windows that will have to be replaced (another $4650!) before too long.  Also, the people who truly love and value old houses will steer clear of the new vinyl windows.  Whereas if you leave those original windows in place, they will be good for a hundred or two hundred more years.  Those things were built to last.

Most of the air leak from windows, when there is an air leak, is not through the glass, but from gaps where the edges meet the frame.  You can caulk this, if they're not windows you would open.  Or you can just buy new storm windows, if the old ones don't fit tightly.  New storm windows are going to be a heck of a lot cheaper than $4650. 

But let's say you let the old windows stay in place and the fit is leaky and the storm windows don't fit tightly, and you just leave them that way.  How much energy would they have to lose for you to lose the phenomenal sum of $4650?  Even if they meant that you paid $20 extra per month in heating or air conditioning bills (which sounds very high to me), it would take nineteen years to break even on those windows.  Just in time for the vinyl to have gone nice and yellow, and brittle, and for you to have to replace them! 

Really, don't do it.  If the windows leak, caulk and/or get new storm windows.

MDM

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2015, 01:48:38 AM »
Are these vinyl windows or are they Anderson's wood windows?

Argyle's energy payback comments are valid.  And I believe Anderson does make vinyl windows - but also (similar to Marvin) makes a higher grade wood frame window.

Spork

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2015, 04:27:10 AM »
If these are some high-end finished wood windows... the following doesn't apply.  If you're talking vinyl clad, read on.

We built our house from scratch 4 years ago.  The sum total of all (vinyl clad) windows was $3200.  If I'm counting right in my head, that was 23 windows.

Papa bear

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2015, 05:31:29 AM »
Does your house need to comply with historic neighborhood or hoa that requires wood windows?   If not, go vinyl. Each window should be under 200$ for materials (unless these are bigger than 200 total perimeter inches each, in my experience) and will meet all updated requirements for energy efficiency.  If you need the look of wood for yourself, many vinyl windows have different color or wood grain options for you to choose from, but that will increase the price. 

Even if you need wood window replacements, please shop around.  I hate paying for a just a brand name.


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Fishindude

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2015, 05:38:07 AM »
I just bought some all vinyl, double hung, insulated replacement windows for my sons home.
Cost was $400 per window, installed, outside wrapped in aluminum, caulked, old window disposed of, etc.

NOTE - If you haven't already bought them I wouldn't recommend IKEA cabinets.  Everything I've seen is pretty low quality, lightweight stuff.

index

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2015, 07:24:38 AM »
How big are those windows?

I have repaired about half of the old windows in my house, but there were a couple of windows beyond repair (carpenter bees had eaten much of the third floor windows prior to the space being finished). The replacement wood divided light windows were ~$1300 for two wood double hung 30x60 windows.

If you must replace the old windows, the cheapest double pane wood framed windows you can find. The insulating technology is not going to make much of a difference in you old house when your windows are R-7 and your walls R-3. Just concentrate on air sealing. 

Clean Shaven

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2015, 07:56:56 AM »
FWIW, the windows in my house are all Anderson wood frame, about 20 years old. They are noticeably better insulators than any of the vinyl (and presumably much cheaper) windows in any place I've lived before.

So, I like them. But that price for 3 windows seems insane.

lthenderson

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2015, 08:33:12 AM »
I'm always amazed at how much money people are willing to spend for new windows when a little bit of caulking and maintenance will solve their problems. My first house was full of cheaply made modern windows that warped, discolored and were drafty because you could never get the warped parts to seal properly. My current house has 50 year old windows that seat perfectly and are very cozy after caulking them and painting them soon after I moved in. Sure they might not be as efficient as triple paned gas filled windows, but for a 20 to 30 year payback, I'll keep the ones I have.

Greg

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2015, 08:59:10 AM »
$4650 for 3 windows is face-punch worthy, without knowing more.  Maybe your house is a fancy-pants house, maybe the windows are triple-pane, maybe they're VG fir. Maybe your price includes installation.  Maybe they're a custom size instead of a stock size.  Hard to say without knowing more.

For comparison, my entire window budget for my custom home was less than 2x your 3 window cost.  For 30 fiberglass exterior, wood interior Marvin windows, some mulled together.  Maybe you should shop around a bit.

Fishindude

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2015, 09:13:13 AM »
If all you are looking at is energy savings, it will rarely ever make sense to replace windows.
Old wood sash windows generally suck   They've been painted umpteen times, glazing is bad, they don't open and close easily, removal / replacement of storm windows is a pain in the rear, they require maintenance and painting, etc., etc.  In addition they are single pane and cold in the winter, hot in the summer.

If you like outside fresh air, new windows are great.   They don't jam up and it doesn't require a body builder to open, close and lock / unlock them.
Most tilt in so thye are easy to clean from the inside.  The energy efficiency is just an added bonus.

casadlo

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2015, 08:31:35 PM »
A few more details - the cost I mentioned ($1550/window) includes full installation, capping, and lifetime warranty.  It is for their Fibrex material windows - it's only been on the market for about 20 years, but they have had no issues and expect the lifetime to be over 75 years.  It's a wood/polymer composite so you get a lot of the pros of wood and vinyl without the cons. They would be custom sizes. There is no HOA or other regulation mandating we do anything. The existing wood windows are in pretty bad shape. I guess I could get a carpenter out here to estimate fixing up the windows and storm windows. I am very much a DIYer but I have a toddler and my wife and I both have full time jobs, so there's just an upper limit on the amount of time I can spend doing this kind of stuff.

Still face punch-able. I didn't pay a dime yet because I went with at 12 month no interest no payments financing (another year of that cash sitting in my investment accounts instead of theirs!). Maybe I can go back on this decision and shop around. Any recommendations? I've seen Marvin come up a few times.

reader2580

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2015, 08:34:21 PM »
I assume this is Renewal By Andersen.  They are absurdly expensive.  I would look at other options.

I had all the windows in my entire house replaced with Andersen 400 series windows by a contractor for much less per window than what Renewal charges.  Andersen 400 series windows are wood core with vinyl exterior.  My windows were totally shot.  Totally rotted from neglect.  Maybe a miracle worker could have fixed them, but I don't know how with all the rot.  They were sliding windows, not double hung or casements.  (House was built in 1980 so windows were nothing special.)

My heating bill has maxed out at $105 a month compared to the previous owner before renovations at $500 a month.  I did more than just windows to cut energy costs.  Energy savings alone will pay off most of my costs in 10 years.  I would have never bought the house if I was paying the energy costs of the previous owner so I'm not saving money I would otherwise be spending.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 08:38:55 PM by reader2580 »

Papa bear

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Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2015, 08:50:40 PM »
There are a ton of different window manufacturers.  I purchase all of mine from alside.  You must have a wholesale/contractor account for them or buy through one.  I pay flat rate approx 150/window plus add ons for any window under 200 perimeter inches. (Add ons would be grids, full screen, colors, etc). There are no "standard sizes" as they are all made to order. 

Paying a contractor for an install should be 120-200/window depending on difficulty or material. 




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« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 08:56:07 PM by Papa bear »

casadlo

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2015, 09:27:38 PM »
Thanks again. I still have two days to cancel (phew!) so I've initiated that to at least buy some time.

The other option popping up a lot on the internet are storm windows. Our are old wood ones that are only attached with two hooks on top, and there are ones made of glass and others with screens you are supposed to swap out depending on the time of year. If we went with a more modern storm window and got rid of those it would save a ton of money and still gain most of the energy efficiency while preserving the original windows. They are kind of ugly but in our situation it might make sense.

paddedhat

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2015, 07:26:17 AM »
I just mentioned this on another post. Find a supplier for custom colored, triple track aluminum storms. I did my family's 1915 beautiful old place with really nice dark brown units. They were under $125 each, installed. As for the vinyl proponents, they can be a great window. However, if your house has any character that you want to preserve, they are not for you. Most vinyl replacements are done by removing the existing sashes and installing a fully functioning vinyl window inside the opening, effectively destroying the character of the window.

I hope you have already signed the cancellation notice with the Anderson deal?  The price is not absurd, ridiculous, or crazy.  No, paying almost $5K to replace three windows reaches far beyond those adjectives, to a place that I lack words for. It's a lot like the victims that pay bathfitter $5K to slip a plastic liner over their old tub and glue some plastic to the walls. They show up with a few hundred in materials, do a few hours of work, and walk away with $4K in their pocket. As for the energy savings of spending $5K on three windows, it will pay off a few decades after the second coming, but only if electricity tops $1/KW and oil is over $200/barrel.

Argyle

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2015, 11:12:57 AM »
Cancel now.  Don't risk some clause that says you still owe them the money.  Whatever you choose to do, this much money for three windows is sheer highway robbery.  You are in scam territory.  Cancel and then take some time to think about your options.  (I vote for the storm windows.)

Jellyfish

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2015, 12:34:59 PM »
I just mentioned this on another post. Find a supplier for custom colored, triple track aluminum storms. I did my family's 1915 beautiful old place with really nice dark brown units. They were under $125 each, installed. As for the vinyl proponents, they can be a great window. However, if your house has any character that you want to preserve, they are not for you. Most vinyl replacements are done by removing the existing sashes and installing a fully functioning vinyl window inside the opening, effectively destroying the character of the window.



I have a 100 year old bungalow in the Chicago suburbs with original wooden double hung windows and the above triple track aluminum storms that were probably added outside sometime in the last 20 years (before I bought the house).  The double hung windows are leaky as heck, have been painted a dozen times and are starting to stick, but have so much character I can't bear to replace them.  And in the late fall as the weather changes I make a pilgrimage through the house and change out the screen for the glass on the storm windows and the insulation is more than sufficient.  In the dead of a Chicago winter my gas bill (for heating) is never more than $150 (2 story house with basement). 

Long story short - storm windows would be a nice option to consider.  They aren't super attractive from the outside, but they do the trick.

reader2580

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2015, 04:15:11 PM »
There are still wood windows being made too.  They will probably be way better than what you have currently.

Renewal does a really nice job and I believe removes the old window completely.  They did a real nice job at my parent's house for a ton of money.  My parents insisted on going with Renewal simply because my brother works in the corporate office at Andersen.  I do have Andersen windows on my house, but I really wanted some even better windows that would have taken far too long for delivery.

Telecaster

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2015, 05:31:01 PM »
Yes, this is insane.  When contractors see an old house with its original windows, they swoop down like vultures to try to convince people of the urban legend that old windows should be replaced. It's complete nonsense and profiteering.

We have had discussions of replacing old windows on these boards before.  Do Not Do It.  If you're at all tempted to do it, go on over to the old-house renovation experts at wavyglass.org and post "Should I replace my old windows?"  They will give you the details and statistics about why old windows are infinitely better than new windows.  To name just one reason, the new windowframes will be vinyl, which has a limited life of around 15-20 years.  So even if you leave after 10 years, any canny buyer will know that he's buying windows that will have to be replaced (another $4650!) before too long.  Also, the people who truly love and value old houses will steer clear of the new vinyl windows.  Whereas if you leave those original windows in place, they will be good for a hundred or two hundred more years.  Those things were built to last.

Most of the air leak from windows, when there is an air leak, is not through the glass, but from gaps where the edges meet the frame.  You can caulk this, if they're not windows you would open.  Or you can just buy new storm windows, if the old ones don't fit tightly.  New storm windows are going to be a heck of a lot cheaper than $4650. 

But let's say you let the old windows stay in place and the fit is leaky and the storm windows don't fit tightly, and you just leave them that way.  How much energy would they have to lose for you to lose the phenomenal sum of $4650?  Even if they meant that you paid $20 extra per month in heating or air conditioning bills (which sounds very high to me), it would take nineteen years to break even on those windows.  Just in time for the vinyl to have gone nice and yellow, and brittle, and for you to have to replace them! 

Really, don't do it.  If the windows leak, caulk and/or get new storm windows.

Quoting because it needs to be repeated.

One other thing, windows can create convection currents due to the change in temperature from outside to inside.  So people sometimes think they are leaking because they can feel air moving, but they really aren't. 

There are so many better ways to spend money to improve energy efficiency than windows.   




Macrolide

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2015, 07:25:18 PM »
Seriously check out Indow interior storm windows. http://www.indowwindows.com/. An excellent product made by an awesome company. All are custom made and and will fit old, out-of-plumb windows tight like a tiger. They send you a laser measuring kit to get the measurements perfect. Because they are on the inside, you preserve your home's historic curb appeal.

I got 4 for my 30" x 50" lead windows and they were $260 each.

casadlo

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2015, 08:23:13 PM »
Thanks everyone for the face punch. Job was successfully cancelled. Currently shopping for storm windows. I don't like the inside inserts because I still want to be able to open the windows, but it might work for the two long skinny windows next to the front door that don't open anyway and have nice leaded panes. Feel free to suggest companies or brands for storm windows.

Ducky

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2015, 06:22:33 PM »
I just bought an old (1938) two story brick home. The kitchen is about as old as the house and it's the first thing to go. We're doing IKEA cabinets with 3rd party doors. However, there are 3 windows in the kitchen that are also just about as old as the house: wood frame, single pane double hungs with "storm windows" that are just another single pane layer of glass you hang from some hooks outside the house. This house is bleeding heat. So the 3 windows in the kitchen are the first candidates for replacing, since we're redoing the rest of the kitchen already. We got a quote from Anderson and are moving forward... for about $4650 for 3 windows. This seems insane but it will make a small dent in our heating costs and I can claim the $200 tax credit for energy efficient windows.

Is this still insane? I was really impressed with the engineering of the product and plan to stay in this house for 10+ years.

I think its insane. We had a contractor do a house full of windows for $5100. That also includes new exterior doors. 

Kaplin261

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2015, 11:08:45 AM »
But let's say you let the old windows stay in place and the fit is leaky and the storm windows don't fit tightly, and you just leave them that way.  How much energy would they have to lose for you to lose the phenomenal sum of $4650?  Even if they meant that you paid $20 extra per month in heating or air conditioning bills (which sounds very high to me), it would take nineteen years to break even on those windows.  Just in time for the vinyl to have gone nice and yellow, and brittle, and for you to have to replace them! 

$4650 in index funds earning 7% would net you more then enough to make up for the extra usage on your utilities bill. However new windows have a ROI of 70% if selling your home in the next couple years.

paddedhat

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2015, 04:23:40 PM »
But let's say you let the old windows stay in place and the fit is leaky and the storm windows don't fit tightly, and you just leave them that way.  How much energy would they have to lose for you to lose the phenomenal sum of $4650?  Even if they meant that you paid $20 extra per month in heating or air conditioning bills (which sounds very high to me), it would take nineteen years to break even on those windows.  Just in time for the vinyl to have gone nice and yellow, and brittle, and for you to have to replace them! 

$4650 in index funds earning 7% would net you more then enough to make up for the extra usage on your utilities bill. However new windows have a ROI of 70% if selling your home in the next couple years.
Not when you pay 5X fair market value for the windows. As for the claim of a 70% ROI, I would question that. I know that there are constantly articles being published claiming to list the value of every home improvement from inground pools to remodeling the bathroom, but I have always been a little suspicious of their claims. When it comes to replacement windows I see more of a functional adequacy argument that added value.  For example, if I'm looking at a place that needs  to have the electrical service upgraded, and similar home that had it replaced a few years back. The one with the electrical work already completed is not worth a $2K premium because the electrical service is now functionally adequate. But, the one needing work could easily come back with a flag that the service needs to be upgraded ASAP and it will cost approximately $2K. Therefore I would expect a $2k reduction in price, or that the seller would repair the defect. Replacing defective windows is no different. Unless I am buying a fixer-upper, I expect a usable roof, weather tight doors and windows, and functional mechanical systems. I'm no fan of spending money on these items with the thought that it increases the value of the home.

Kaplin261

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2015, 04:52:56 PM »
But let's say you let the old windows stay in place and the fit is leaky and the storm windows don't fit tightly, and you just leave them that way.  How much energy would they have to lose for you to lose the phenomenal sum of $4650?  Even if they meant that you paid $20 extra per month in heating or air conditioning bills (which sounds very high to me), it would take nineteen years to break even on those windows.  Just in time for the vinyl to have gone nice and yellow, and brittle, and for you to have to replace them! 

$4650 in index funds earning 7% would net you more then enough to make up for the extra usage on your utilities bill. However new windows have a ROI of 70% if selling your home in the next couple years.
Not when you pay 5X fair market value for the windows. As for the claim of a 70% ROI, I would question that. I know that there are constantly articles being published claiming to list the value of every home improvement from inground pools to remodeling the bathroom, but I have always been a little suspicious of their claims. When it comes to replacement windows I see more of a functional adequacy argument that added value.  For example, if I'm looking at a place that needs  to have the electrical service upgraded, and similar home that had it replaced a few years back. The one with the electrical work already completed is not worth a $2K premium because the electrical service is now functionally adequate. But, the one needing work could easily come back with a flag that the service needs to be upgraded ASAP and it will cost approximately $2K. Therefore I would expect a $2k reduction in price, or that the seller would repair the defect. Replacing defective windows is no different. Unless I am buying a fixer-upper, I expect a usable roof, weather tight doors and windows, and functional mechanical systems. I'm no fan of spending money on these items with the thought that it increases the value of the home.

I bought a front door on craigslist a couple weeks ago. It is a nice door with leaded glass and for sale at home depot for $490. The installation cost home depot estimates is $500. A Google search estimates a front door upgrade costs between $800-$1200 on average.

Google research says front door replacements carry a ROI on average %80. However I replaced a door that had no faults, so I suspect my ROI on this will be much lower then the $800 that it should be. But if the door had screwes and putty holding it together my ROI would probly be more then 80% or the $800.

paddedhat

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2015, 06:07:08 PM »
"research" on this issues might be entertaining, but it has little to do with reality. When you have an appraisal done, to decide exactly how much the bank is going to be lending your theoretical buyer, at no point does a professional appraiser say, "Well golly, I originally though the house was worth $280k, but that's one sweet front door there, probably cost $1200 a while back, I better add $800 to my appraisal. Sorry, but that's not how things work in the real world. It comes down to things like size, # of bathrooms and bedrooms, heating and cooling systems, interior and exterior finishes, # of garage bays, etc... Nobody is handing out 80% of what you spent to correct defective windows, four years ago. Doesn't matter if your are talking a $30k kitchen renovation, or $2K in vinyl replacement windows. Doing it for the added value, is a talking point from a sales lizard, and a poor reason to make improvements to a dwelling.

A great example is how things are currently appraised in my area. I need at least $12-15K, per bay, to build a garage, or add one to an existing home. Appraisers add $7-8K per bay, when valuing a property. Therefore you build a garage because you need one, not because it's some kind of "investment", or has a great return. It's quite the opposite of an investment.

Spork

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2015, 06:23:00 PM »
...and that pretty much explains how our house plan with a 3 car garage became a house with a 2 car garage.

My feeling for this type of thing is roughly: house A (with beautiful awesome front door) is pretty much equivalent to house B (with hum drum front door).  They appraise the same.  They sale for the same price.  But house A might have an "edge" when a young couple sits down and is deciding between the two.  They're not paying more, but a tweak here and there might make them lean towards that house in their buying decision.  Maybe it's on the market less time than the other house.

Personally, I never do anything with a house with the idea of what someone else will think of it.  Partly the reason for that is because I'm just as likely to guess what the tastes are of a buyer 20 years from now as I am to pick the winning lotto numbers.  But mostly the reason for that is that I'm not buying a house and flipping it.  I buy a house to live in.  The things I do to it are because I like them.  If you don't like them, pay me money for the house and put your own tastes in.

Kaplin261

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2015, 06:13:29 AM »
Nobody is handing out 80% of what you spent to correct defective windows, four years ago. Doesn't matter if your are talking a $30k kitchen renovation, or $2K in vinyl replacement windows. Doing it for the added value, is a talking point from a sales lizard, and a poor reason to make improvements to a dwelling.

If ten homes were for sale in a neighborhood, all have the same sqft and exact features except 1 home has 40 year old windows that are decayed and need to be replaced and have a average price in this area of $10,000 to replace. All the homes appraise for the same value. Statistically the the 9 other homes in better condition would have to sell first in order for the home with bad windows to sell for appraised value or the seller would need to match the quality of his windows to the windows of the other 9 homes.

If the homeowner can sell the home with the bad windows for $10,000 less than the other 9 homes or can get full price if the windows are replaced, he would then have a ROI.

reader2580

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2015, 12:35:53 PM »
I bought a foreclosed house in 2014.  It was well below market value because it was in bad shape.  Windows were rotted, one exterior door had 2" gap, vinyl siding was cracked and full of holes, bathroom had been torn out, kitchen was horrid, electrical needed help, and interior walls were full of dings and holes.  I did a three month $100,000 remodel that included new windows, new kitchen, new bath, new siding, new exterior and interiors, new HVAC, new flooring, and new interior trim.  Appraiser valued the house at $102,000 over what I paid for the house.

Neustache

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2015, 02:03:43 PM »
Intrigued by the Indow Windows......I could probably do my house for 4K -5K (16 windows).  Macrolide - how long have you had them?  And how long is the warranty?  I guess if you only got them on 3 windows you probably didn't notice much of a change on your utilities. 

paddedhat

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2015, 04:09:46 PM »
Nobody is handing out 80% of what you spent to correct defective windows, four years ago. Doesn't matter if your are talking a $30k kitchen renovation, or $2K in vinyl replacement windows. Doing it for the added value, is a talking point from a sales lizard, and a poor reason to make improvements to a dwelling.

If ten homes were for sale in a neighborhood, all have the same sqft and exact features except 1 home has 40 year old windows that are decayed and need to be replaced and have a average price in this area of $10,000 to replace. All the homes appraise for the same value. Statistically the the 9 other homes in better condition would have to sell first in order for the home with bad windows to sell for appraised value or the seller would need to match the quality of his windows to the windows of the other 9 homes.

If the homeowner can sell the home with the bad windows for $10,000 less than the other 9 homes or can get full price if the windows are replaced, he would then have a ROI.

You are WAY overthinking this, LOL. Bottom line is a house sells because it meets the wants, and/or needs of the buyer. Your theoretical house, with functionally inadequate windows, could sell long before most of the others for many reasons, including specific location (adjacent a park, in a cul-de-sac) or because it has ugly, plywood, mid-century kitchen cabinets that are original, and some hipster goofball falls in love with them. Who knows why people make the decisions they make?  That said, the owner of the house in question would of been a fool to spend $10K on windows, since the return would be awful. A couple of hundred to repair the existing units, and giving everything a quick coat of paint, is time and money well spent. Ten grand spent to benefit the next owner is not a wise investment.  Unlike Google searches, or bullshit articles in DIY homeowner magazines, you will find that any decent realtor or appraiser will tell you exactly why some of us are saying here, there are very few upgrades you can do to a home that are going to make sense from a resale standpoint, and there are many that can hurt the value and ability to move the thing in a timely manner. In my area it's pools of any kind, built in Jacuzzi tubs in bathrooms, and weird choices in finishes, including everything from paint, and flooring to cabinets and granite. keep a house functionally adequate, with good quality, well maintained "bones" and do whatever pleases you when it comes to anything else. Trying to treat anything you do as a good investment will only lead to disappointment.

Macrolide

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Re: Replacing windows in old house - will Anderson get me face punched?
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2015, 02:57:43 PM »
Intrigued by the Indow Windows......I could probably do my house for 4K -5K (16 windows).  Macrolide - how long have you had them?  And how long is the warranty?  I guess if you only got them on 3 windows you probably didn't notice much of a change on your utilities.

This is my first winter with them. I got them for my 4 fairly large, leaded, fragile and very leaky windows mainly to keep them protected from my kids and my kids from them. I also have 5 single pane wood windows nearby (which I'll be getting inserts for next year) and I still need to add weather stripping to the doors so the energy savings haven't been huge so far.

They come with a lifetime warranty for "defects of material or workmanship" as long as the purchaser owns the house.