Replacing an old water supply line valve/box and DIYing a kitchen sink?

[jeromedawg]

Hey all,

In light of drywall that had to be ripped out behind where our fridge is due to water damage from the upstairs unit, I'm planning to replace the old water supply line valve and recessed box that's fully exposed:



Do you guys think this is something I should take on myself? I've replaced the valves for toilets myself which were just compression sleeves that you push/twist on really tight (no welding required). I'm not so sure about this one. 
Would it be a better idea just to have the contractor replace it all? I think it would cost $65 for them to replace the valve itself but I'm not sure about the plastic box (I don't even know what it's called)... I wouldn't think it would cost a ton more for them to install a new box in addition - they'd probably need to remove the one there anyway when replacing the valve, I'm guessing.

BTW: that is a firewall that this is nailed to.


I'm also curious as to how much trouble it would be if we wanted to replace our sink. The current sink is an under-mounted sink with a granite top. I'd likely consider either a drop-in stainless steel but those farmhouse sinks look pretty cool too. Wondering if this is also something better left to a contractor.

We're ending up with quite a bit of a payout from our claims adjuster for the incurred water damage and if we use our own contractor (who we've used before and trust), we'll save several thousands vs going with the insurance company's preferred contractor. That would leave us with some leftover funds to 'upgrade' our kitchen. We're already planning to resurface our cabinets as that's probably the biggest thing in need otherwise.

Kitchen sink (excuse the mess lol):

[Penn42]

While that technically is a valve, the industry term for it is a "stop".  Because, well, it stops the water at point of use.  The whole unit is called an ice-maker box.  Plumber's are really inventive with their naming of stuff, btw.   Ice-maker boxes come as one whole unit, which is probably the easiest route to go as far as DIY replacing is concerned.  Connecting the new box to existing plumbing could go any number of ways depending what type of existing pipe is in your place.

As far the sink goes, there really isn't a whole lot too them.  Look at the underside of the counter and you'll see a bunch of clips that are holding it in place.  Take those off and the sink will drop right out (after disconnecting everything else of course).  Installing faucets on sinks is pretty self explanatory if you have a little bit of mechanical knowledge.   Stuff goes through the holes and other stuff connects on the bottom side to hold it in place.  The hard part, as always, with plumbing is there are tons of different parts with specific names and adapters to get from one type of connection to another this and that and the other.   Knowing the names of stuff is pretty much the biggest obstacle.   Getting that part sorted out to reconnect your trap and water supplies will be the biggest hurdle I expect for someone with no plumbing knowledge. 

But take lots of photos and the folks at your local hardware store can always help.

[jeromedawg]

While that technically is a valve, the industry term for it is a "stop".  Because, well, it stops the water at point of use.  The whole unit is called an ice-maker box.  Plumber's are really inventive with their naming of stuff, btw.   Ice-maker boxes come as one whole unit, which is probably the easiest route to go as far as DIY replacing is concerned.  Connecting the new box to existing plumbing could go any number of ways depending what type of existing pipe is in your place.

As far the sink goes, there really isn't a whole lot too them.  Look at the underside of the counter and you'll see a bunch of clips that are holding it in place.  Take those off and the sink will drop right out (after disconnecting everything else of course).  Installing faucets on sinks is pretty self explanatory if you have a little bit of mechanical knowledge.   Stuff goes through the holes and other stuff connects on the bottom side to hold it in place.  The hard part, as always, with plumbing is there are tons of different parts with specific names and adapters to get from one type of connection to another this and that and the other.   Knowing the names of stuff is pretty much the biggest obstacle.   Getting that part sorted out to reconnect your trap and water supplies will be the biggest hurdle I expect for someone with no plumbing knowledge. 

But take lots of photos and the folks at your local hardware store can always help.

Thanks! For the kitchen sink what would you recommend overall? Drop-in vs farmhouse? Or undermount? I did install the disposal and dishwasher so I'm somewhat familiar with the underside of the sink and what not. Just wasn't sure how technical the sink drop-in is and if it's a PITA or not. I've installed one bathroom kitchen faucet and that was somewhat of a PITA, especially getting the trap setup. It took me several hours to do so I ended up just having a handyman do the other two (those were sort of as 'favors' for a shoddy job he did with the upstairs neighbor which caused an overflow and leak into our unit from the celing fan). Thinking back on it, I have no idea why we had him come down here and do anything - most of his work was shoddy (he did a crappy job patching up a wall in our toilet closet after installing a new shower head/fixtures in our shower).

For the ice maker box, the existing pipe in place is copper AFAIK. How do you even remove the ice maker box itself? Seems there are a couple of  copper (?) grommets securing it in place. There's a good amount of corrosion too, so I'm assuming sanding that off would be a good idea. I just don't want to have to deal with welding anything, obviously. EDIT: I just checked and it *looks* as if it's a compression fitting. In that case, I suppose I would just use a pair of pliers/wrench and force it off (after turning off the water shut-off valve obviously). Then the grommets/box should slide of and I would just want to sand the pipe down to remove corrosion and replace with a new box? Is this all something I'd want to wait on doing until *after* they install the drywall btw? I could probably remove the fitting now but then we wouldn't want to turn on the water again until after the unit is replaced. And I'm not sure if I'd want to replace the valve (or if it would make sense to) *before* they hang the drywall up either...

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/ice-water-box-valve-repair-or-replace.24613/
http://www.sharkbite.com/product/ice-maker-outlet-box/

Aha, so "compression fitting" is the term I'm looking for - that's what I replaced on the other 1/4 turn valves for the toilet water supplies. It sounds like "sharkbite" might be what I want to go with? But I first would need to determine if the current valve is welded on... if it is would I just want to take a hacksaw to it? The other thing I was wonder was if I should just cap it off since we don't even use the water supply line. I figure if anything it might be fine just to replace since it doesn't hurt having it (I dunno if this would be a "value add" when we sell the home)

That said, would it be worth paying the $65 (I'll have to confirm the cost) to replace the unit if they're going to be hanging the drywall and doing a bunch of stuff around it anyway? Seems these things cost anywhere from $20-50 in general...

[dilinger]

If it's soldered on, don't use a hacksaw; use a pipe cutter. Cheap & easy to use:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/TEKTON-1-8-5-8-in-O-D-Mini-Tubing-Cutter-64501/206652836

Just make sure you get one that fits the diameter of your copper pipe. Also, you'll need a few inches of clearance on all sides of the pipe; from the picture, it looks like you may need to cut the plywood back a little bit.

I'm partial to Sharkbite (or the no-name imitation brands).  No reason you potentially couldn't do a compression fitting; however, not having to turn a wrench in a confined space is worth a few extra bucks, especially if you only need one or two fittings.

[jeromedawg]

If it's soldered on, don't use a hacksaw; use a pipe cutter. Cheap & easy to use:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/TEKTON-1-8-5-8-in-O-D-Mini-Tubing-Cutter-64501/206652836

Just make sure you get one that fits the diameter of your copper pipe. Also, you'll need a few inches of clearance on all sides of the pipe; from the picture, it looks like you may need to cut the plywood back a little bit.

I'm partial to Sharkbite (or the no-name imitation brands).  No reason you potentially couldn't do a compression fitting; however, not having to turn a wrench in a confined space is worth a few extra bucks, especially if you only need one or two fittings.

Thanks! Would welding the pipe be the only alternative then to compression fittings? If so, I'm wondering if I should just have the contractor do the install in that case. I don't want to have to go find/borrow a torch and then mess around with something I've never done before that seems pretty dangerous lol...

[Penn42]

I can't really speak to how the ice-maker connection could affect the selling of the house.  I would imagine having it would be one less thing a potential buyer could nit-pick over.  But if you just cut the old one out and cap it in the wall.  Perhaps even put a small access panel there for a future addition.  I don't see how it could be a big deal left like that.  If you don't need one I think that would probably be the easiest route for you to go.  Just turn the water off, cut the pipe just below where it enters the box, throw a shark bite cap on it and leave it for later.  Be sure to mark the pipe the dept of the lip inside the cap so you know you slid the cap on the whole way.  Shark bites are pretty slick, but can sometimes hang up before they're all the way on and hold still hold water... until they don't.

As far what's easiest on the sink?  Style wise I'd go with what you want.  As long as it fits the hole getting it set shouldn't be a big issue.  it's everything underneath that's the bigger obstacle, which will be the same regardless. 

[dilinger]

Thanks! Would welding the pipe be the only alternative then to compression fittings? If so, I'm wondering if I should just have the contractor do the install in that case. I don't want to have to go find/borrow a torch and then mess around with something I've never done before that seems pretty dangerous lol...

No, you can do a compression fitting or a sharkbite fitting.  Compression is one of those things that you turn with a wrench to tighten.  Sharkbite is just pushed on (sometimes called "push fit" or "push fitting").   Both can be used on a pipe that's been cut, though you'll want to deburr the pipe so you don't damage the sharkbite fitting.  There's also various sharkbite adapters that allow you to add threads to a pipe for various other ways to attach things.  Basically, you should never have to solder ("sweat") a pipe thanks to stuff like sharkbite fittings (and pex/PVC/CPVC).

[jeromedawg]

Thanks guys! I'll look into potentially DIYing the valve. But I may just have the contractor do it all since they're already gonna be working on that wall/area.

As far as the kitchen sink, if I were to install a farmhouse sink, wouldn't I need to cut part of the counter and cabinetry where the front of the sink would rest?

[Jon Bon]

Sink:

Ok I dont have a ton of experience with them, but I have had them installed.

IME under mount sinks are attached to the granite counter tops with special cut channels in the granite. So you have a lot less flexibility then you would with something like laminate or wood countertops. I believe it can be done but only certain sinks would fit.

Also the footprint of the sink is going to be the same, you cannot cut granite anywhere else except in the factory where your slab was custom made. Sure it can be cut on site but the cuts are going to look terrible compared to the factory ones.

So to put in a farmhouse you would have to cut the front and back of the counter-top and the front of the cabinet. It would take a ton of skill for someone to be able to do that and not have it look like trash.  This is also a "one shot job" and mistakes, niks, or chips are gonna be there forever as repairs would be impossible. I'd wait and see what others say, but my initial reaction would be its probably possible but not worth trying to retrofit to farmhouse style.

[jeromedawg]

Sink:

Ok I dont have a ton of experience with them, but I have had them installed.

IME under mount sinks are attached to the granite counter tops with special cut channels in the granite. So you have a lot less flexibility then you would with something like laminate or wood countertops. I believe it can be done but only certain sinks would fit.

Also the footprint of the sink is going to be the same, you cannot cut granite anywhere else except in the factory where your slab was custom made. Sure it can be cut on site but the cuts are going to look terrible compared to the factory ones.

So to put in a farmhouse you would have to cut the front and back of the counter-top and the front of the cabinet. It would take a ton of skill for someone to be able to do that and not have it look like trash.  This is also a "one shot job" and mistakes, niks, or chips are gonna be there forever as repairs would be impossible. I'd wait and see what others say, but my initial reaction would be its probably possible but not worth trying to retrofit to farmhouse style.

Makes sense - I figured it would end up being more a PITA and huge risk than anything. I think drop-in would probably be best in this case - checking the underside there's not much room to work with so trying to mount under-mount would also be a PITA I think. It seems like trying to remove the existing sink would be difficult enough.
Anyway, this probably won't be for a while, if at all.

[jeromedawg]

If I were wanting to cap it off, could I just use one of these https://www.homedepot.com/p/SharkBite-1-2-in-Brass-Push-to-Connect-End-Stop-U514LFA/202270531 ?

Or are those really only meant to be temporary and would I want to just have a plumber come out and solder a copper end pipe on? I don't have the tools or experience for soldering piping, especially, and wouldn't want to mess around with this and make things worse or cause a fire/damage/injury.

[jeromedawg]

Update: I got a tip on DIYChatroom that I should look into just replacing the washers in the valve stem. So I picked up a Brasscraft stem repair kit and it was virtually a perfect fit... except, the original Eastman knob wouldn't fit the Brasscraft stem valve threading haha. The washers were a perfect fit though so I just swapped those out from the new stem to the old stem. No more black/murky water (from the deteriorating bib washer), much better flow, and I also cleaned up the nozzle with Lime Away and scraped off the calcium and gunk. Looks much better now as well. Saved a good amount of money going this route and not needing to have a plumber come out!