Retired carpenter just here to help

[Dancin'Dog]

I'm not surprised about the quotes. I see some really high tiling prices and you can expect a condo tax. They are a pain to work in.
Sorry, I thought I understood the situation but I got confused with "floor tiles..twice as thick as wall tile.."
I don't completely understand why the thicknesses cause an issue if they are on horizontal and vertical planes. But I likely am misunderstanding something.
I also don't have much experience tiling over tile but Sven may, he seems to have a really good grasp on the subject. If you do get down to underlayment, so long as it's an appropriate material, get it as smooth as you can, understanding any corners cut here is kicking the can down the road to when you start laying. But there is a built in tolerance as well due to the mortar bed. Sven had a great point about now being the time to add a heated underlay or trace. I've ordered a kit from Amazon a few times and it was easy to install. But like you mentioned, have to keep an eye on the elevations as well. Schlueter (and likely others that I don't know of sell) loads of transition strips to accomodate different elevations across thresholds but best to figure this all out well beforehand

For some reason, I assumed that wall tiles might be thinner than floor tiles.  I don't know the item numbers of what they purchased, but just did a quick visit to the Lowes website and found that tile thickness can vary between item numbers.  One style of subway tile I checked was actually slightly thicker than a floor tile that I randomly checked. 


What is an acceptable difference in the floor elevations transitioning from the bathroom to the adjoining room?  I realize it should be identical, but what is considered "acceptable"? 


When I examined the present elevation difference the hall was about 1/4" higher than the tile in the bathroom.  If the new tile/thinset thickness is 1/2", that will reverse the 1/4" indifference.  That's what I'm hoping for. 

[sonofsven]

I'm not surprised about the quotes. I see some really high tiling prices and you can expect a condo tax. They are a pain to work in.
Sorry, I thought I understood the situation but I got confused with "floor tiles..twice as thick as wall tile.."
I don't completely understand why the thicknesses cause an issue if they are on horizontal and vertical planes. But I likely am misunderstanding something.
I also don't have much experience tiling over tile but Sven may, he seems to have a really good grasp on the subject. If you do get down to underlayment, so long as it's an appropriate material, get it as smooth as you can, understanding any corners cut here is kicking the can down the road to when you start laying. But there is a built in tolerance as well due to the mortar bed. Sven had a great point about now being the time to add a heated underlay or trace. I've ordered a kit from Amazon a few times and it was easy to install. But like you mentioned, have to keep an eye on the elevations as well. Schlueter (and likely others that I don't know of sell) loads of transition strips to accomodate different elevations across thresholds but best to figure this all out well beforehand

For some reason, I assumed that wall tiles might be thinner than floor tiles.  I don't know the item numbers of what they purchased, but just did a quick visit to the Lowes website and found that tile thickness can vary between item numbers.  One style of subway tile I checked was actually slightly thicker than a floor tile that I randomly checked. 


What is an acceptable difference in the floor elevations transitioning from the bathroom to the adjoining room?  I realize it should be identical, but what is considered "acceptable"? 


When I examined the present elevation difference the hall was about 1/4" higher than the tile in the bathroom.  If the new tile/thinset thickness is 1/2", that will reverse the 1/4" indifference.  That's what I'm hoping for.

Tiling over tile, in general, I don't prefer it, because I want to be absolutely sure of the subfloor and underlayment, since I want the floor to last.
But not having seen it, I can't say for sure. I would look very carefully for cracks in the grout or any other signs of movement.
You won't really know how hard it will be to demo the existing floor until you do it because you won't know how it was constructed until you get in there. I'd say the older the building the more difficult it will be. Usually ninety percent of it comes out easy and ten percent is near impossible.
Another reason to remove it all is so you can build it up to plane out flat with the hall floor. As for "acceptable", I'd say 3/4" is the max, but definitely not ideal. You want the transition to be under the door. If the hall is a wood floor I would make the transition out of similar wood, if not you can buy lots of different transitions.
You can get backerboard in 1/2" and 1/4" sheets. You should spread thinset under the bb as well.
You can also get a 1/8" uncoupling membrane (Ditra, from Schluter) in lieu of backerboard on the floor. It's orange and comes in different length rolls approx 3'wide, you can cut it with a utility knife. It's a little harder to install as it wants to roll up at the ends, so I weigh it down. It's vital to get the right spread of thinset under it because it has no fasteners.
One cool thing about it is that it has indents on the surface where you can place the "warm wire" for underfloor heat.  I use a hot glue gun to stick the wire in place where needed.
If you do tile over tile you'll want to clean/scuff/abrade the existing tiles well and use a modified thinset for better adhesion.

[lthenderson]

Assuming we'll have to remove the old floor tiles, what type of prep work will we need to do to the backer board under it before laying the new floor tiles?  Can we just need to smooth it over with a wide chisel, or will it probably require something more?

Assuming the original tile job was a quality one, in my experience you will have a much more difficult time trying to remove the tile from the original backer board than just getting between the backer board and the subfloor and prying both the tile and backerboard up. As stated above, this will allow you to do everything right from the beginning as well as let you buy the correct thickness of backer board/decoupling membrane so that you get flooring heights to match.

I personally, install a transition if they don't match in height versus leaving a square cornered edge that might trip someone. I've found even a small height adjustment can be a tripping hazard to those who shuffle their feet, especially a sleepy person making a midnight trip to the bathroom.

[Newday]

Hi Tallpines,

Thanks for offering your help in this forum. I have a couple of  questions for you.

Some background: Right now, the living room and dining room are together like a great room, but with a partial wall creating division between the rooms. Picture enclosed. We are looking to build a wall between the 2 rooms, so the  dining room can function as an office.

1. There's engineeered hardwood that spans across both rooms. One of the contractors we had initially discussed this with, mentioned, that he can glue a 2x4 base to the bottom hardwoord and get the wall started. Is this even advisable? (If yes, what glue would you suggest) .. We think this wall won't have enough support if the base is just glued in.

2. We (My husband) will be building the wall and he feels we have to cut off the hardwood where the wall would stand. so that the bottom 2x4 can be drilled in to the later under the hardwood. Are we on the right track?

3. Also, Is there a technical name for the partial wall structure? We will not be tearing this down, We will remove the white frame of the partial wall and just build a wall to cover the open space. Any advice that you can share with us??

Thank you!

[tallpines]

Hey thanks for reaching out. That's a nice looking place. From your description and the one picture it seems like a pretty straightforward job.
I'm thinking what you're calling the partial wall is likely drywall covering a beam and posts on either side which is supporting floor joists above. If I'm right that's good news because you'll have good material to attach your first and last wall stud too, as well as your top plate to the underside of that beam.
Gently removing a piece of trim to have a look at the framing would be a good first step. If I'm right your wall will be plenty strong with fasteners and you could skip the glue at the bottom plate if you wanted to. He was likely referring to construction adhesive. Not sure where you're at but here a common brand is PL Premium. Comes in a cylinder and you apply it with a caulking gun.
As far as removing hardwood, maybe make a call on that after you see what you have for existing framing, structurally it's not an issue to screw through the hardwood and into the subfloor (ideally joists if you can find them) but want to be careful to allow your floor to expand and contract, but with it being engineered flooring in a climate controlled space, likely less of an issue than say a vinyl plank floating floor.

[sonofsven]

Hi Tallpines,

Thanks for offering your help in this forum. I have a couple of  questions for you.

Some background: Right now, the living room and dining room are together like a great room, but with a partial wall creating division between the rooms. Picture enclosed. We are looking to build a wall between the 2 rooms, so the  dining room can function as an office.

1. There's engineeered hardwood that spans across both rooms. One of the contractors we had initially discussed this with, mentioned, that he can glue a 2x4 base to the bottom hardwoord and get the wall started. Is this even advisable? (If yes, what glue would you suggest) .. We think this wall won't have enough support if the base is just glued in.

2. We (My husband) will be building the wall and he feels we have to cut off the hardwood where the wall would stand. so that the bottom 2x4 can be drilled in to the later under the hardwood. Are we on the right track?

3. Also, Is there a technical name for the partial wall structure? We will not be tearing this down, We will remove the white frame of the partial wall and just build a wall to cover the open space. Any advice that you can share with us??

Thank you!
[/quote

Hi, I'm taking the liberty to add to the advice, I'm a semi retired carpenter.

1) I would not recommend leaving the flooring under the plate of the new wall. If you ever have to change out the flooring it will be much harder, plus the potential issue of expansion/contraction mentioned above. I would consider using construction adhesive on the bottom of the plate a hack job

2) Yes, you're on the right track, although I'm not sure what you're drilling into , or what "later" refers to, but in general your bottom plate should be nailed or screwed (my preference, 3" construction screws) into the floor joists. But if, as I suspect, the floor joists run the same direction as the new wall ,then the new wall will probably be between two joist bays. In new construction there would be a joist under the bottom plate, in a remodel like this I would either double an existing joist if it's close to the wall or add blocking between the joists to provide support and
nailing for the new wall.  This is probably not absolutely necessary, especially since you're not building a bearing wall. The worry is the weight of the wall could cause the floor to sag between the joists, but since this is not a load bearing wall you should be fine screwing the floor plate directly into the subfloor with shorter screws. When was the house built? Older houses often skip some of the steps we take framing new houses, but they worked with better wood, generally.
3) I call your existing wall a framed opening, but I'm sure others probably have different names. The white trim along the floor is the baseboard, the trim that covers the end studs is called the jambs (like door jambs, without the door) and the trim that covers the transition from drywall or plaster to the jambs are called casings.

Advice: I would snap cut lines with a chalk box on either side of the new floor plate, giving 1/4" clearance from the drywall to the hardwood floor, this gap is covered by the baseboard.
Do you have drywall or plaster walls? If plaster, the thickness of the existing plaster wall can vary, and it doesn't necessarily correspond to any available drywall product, so you may need to shim the studs full length before you install drywall. Half inch drywall is the standard for walls.
Also, it will be challenging to hide the joints where your new wall meets the old wall and have a similar texture. Not impossible, but challenging. Butt seams in drywall without the factory recessed ends are hard to hide. You might consider removing all the drywall on the wall, not just filling in the new section.
Lastly, are you sure you want to do this? I only ask because in my careeer I have removed countless walls (with doors) between living room/dining room and built framed openings like yours. This is going to really change the flow of your floor plan.

[Dancin'Dog]

Hi Tallpines,

Thanks for offering your help in this forum. I have a couple of  questions for you.

Some background: Right now, the living room and dining room are together like a great room, but with a partial wall creating division between the rooms. Picture enclosed. We are looking to build a wall between the 2 rooms, so the  dining room can function as an office.

1. There's engineeered hardwood that spans across both rooms. One of the contractors we had initially discussed this with, mentioned, that he can glue a 2x4 base to the bottom hardwoord and get the wall started. Is this even advisable? (If yes, what glue would you suggest) .. We think this wall won't have enough support if the base is just glued in.

2. We (My husband) will be building the wall and he feels we have to cut off the hardwood where the wall would stand. so that the bottom 2x4 can be drilled in to the later under the hardwood. Are we on the right track?

3. Also, Is there a technical name for the partial wall structure? We will not be tearing this down, We will remove the white frame of the partial wall and just build a wall to cover the open space. Any advice that you can share with us??

Thank you!
[/quote

Hi, I'm taking the liberty to add to the advice, I'm a semi retired carpenter.

1) I would not recommend leaving the flooring under the plate of the new wall. If you ever have to change out the flooring it will be much harder, plus the potential issue of expansion/contraction mentioned above. I would consider using construction adhesive on the bottom of the plate a hack job

2) Yes, you're on the right track, although I'm not sure what you're drilling into , or what "later" refers to, but in general your bottom plate should be nailed or screwed (my preference, 3" construction screws) into the floor joists. But if, as I suspect, the floor joists run the same direction as the new wall ,then the new wall will probably be between two joist bays. In new construction there would be a joist under the bottom plate, in a remodel like this I would either double an existing joist if it's close to the wall or add blocking between the joists to provide support and
nailing for the new wall.  This is probably not absolutely necessary, especially since you're not building a bearing wall. The worry is the weight of the wall could cause the floor to sag between the joists, but since this is not a load bearing wall you should be fine screwing the floor plate directly into the subfloor with shorter screws. When was the house built? Older houses often skip some of the steps we take framing new houses, but they worked with better wood, generally.
3) I call your existing wall a framed opening, but I'm sure others probably have different names. The white trim along the floor is the baseboard, the trim that covers the end studs is called the jambs (like door jambs, without the door) and the trim that covers the transition from drywall or plaster to the jambs are called casings.

Advice: I would snap cut lines with a chalk box on either side of the new floor plate, giving 1/4" clearance from the drywall to the hardwood floor, this gap is covered by the baseboard.
Do you have drywall or plaster walls? If plaster, the thickness of the existing plaster wall can vary, and it doesn't necessarily correspond to any available drywall product, so you may need to shim the studs full length before you install drywall. Half inch drywall is the standard for walls.
Also, it will be challenging to hide the joints where your new wall meets the old wall and have a similar texture. Not impossible, but challenging. Butt seams in drywall without the factory recessed ends are hard to hide. You might consider removing all the drywall on the wall, not just filling in the new section.
Lastly, are you sure you want to do this? I only ask because in my careeer I have removed countless walls (with doors) between living room/dining room and built framed openings like yours. This is going to really change the flow of your floor plan.

When I saw the photo I thought the same thing.  Have you considered installing French doors there instead?  That would divide the rooms without permanently altering the flow pattern.  Curtains or screens could be used with the doors to create more privacy and separation between the rooms. 

[lhamo]

If you do build a wall or put in doors, PLEASE try to avoid cutting out the hardwood below.  If/when a future owner wants to open that wall back up, they will be sending lovely thoughts toward you if you keep the hardwood in place, because it is MUCH easier/cheaper to refinish it rather than trying to patch gaps in what is otherwise a perfectly good hardwood floor.

Signed,

Somebody in the middle of renovating a 1950s house who has decided to change a floorplan in order to avoid the hassle/cost of trying to fix gaps in the hardwood....

[Newday]

Tallpines & Sonofsven & Dancin Dog & Ihamo, Thanks so much for all the advice and suggestions.

I totally get what you all mean about changing the flow of the house. This is why we had to delay this until now, to make that decision.

We really need a room in that space, no questions about that. How we go about accomplishing that is something we will have to think through. Thanks again for all the feedback and ideas. Really appreciate that.

[ak907]

I have a question. I have a project I am working on where we are building a door. We are going to be putting tempered glass into dados cut in to the rails and styles. I wanted to be sure it does not rattle but also give a little room for expansion and contraction so the dados are slightly overcut in depth. My plan to stop movement/rattle is to put a little bit of hot glue in the bottom of the dados the glass sits in.

Does this sound reasonable? Since hot glue is flexible and soft this seems like it would work fairly well. Perhaps bathroom caulk would be better? It should ideally be a very long lasting solution, as the door basically cannot be disassembled due to the design,  but pretty low stress of an application (no real force on it, no real uv light exposure or moisture).

[lthenderson]

I would use a silicone based caulking meant for windows and doors to prevent the glass from rattling. It will also help seal against wind and moisture infiltration and is flexible. Hot glue isn't flexible enough when dried so it will eventually crack and let in wind and moisture.

[ak907]

I would use a silicone based caulking meant for windows and doors to prevent the glass from rattling. It will also help seal against wind and moisture infiltration and is flexible. Hot glue isn't flexible enough when dried so it will eventually crack and let in wind and moisture.

Ahh I see the confusion. Sorry I meant a glue to use inside the dado (the crevice in the wood into which the wood is being inserted. The door is an interior (between two rooms) bifold door. Designed to let light from a window filled room. into a room lacking in natural light. No plans currently to put calk/glue where it would be visible/around the glass wood joints/meeting point. The dados should match the window glass pretty exactly if the woodshop cuts it to spec.

It does make sense though that hot glue maybe would not hold up. I can look for window/door clear caulk that silicone based, still sounds like a better alternative.

[ak907]

@tallpines I have a question for you If you are willing to provide input. I have been in the process of replacing an door in my old 1930s brick home that had lead paint and the casing. I have had a new door of a differing style built using a 180 degree folding door hinge https://milcasastore.com/products/compack-180-tri-fold-door-hardware-set. It has turned out very heavy, as I largely expected (red oak with 3/8" tempered glass), ~90 lbs. Now when it comes to installing it I am finding myself hesitating. I would love your input.
I have put in a casing made out of 1x poplar (screwed up the corner where it meets, but I am leaving it for now), but I do not expect it to hold the door. Above the casing where the door hinge will be attached there is a metal lintel for the brick (see attached photo), it will be at the inner edge, near the trim. My plan is to get 2.5-3 inch masonry screws (something like Tapcon-3-16-in-x-3-1-4-in)and pre drill holes through the lintel and into the brick. Do you have any opinion about this plan? There are hole for 4 screws. Do you think this will be enough? Should I plan on using masonry anchors as well? Any opinions on brand/size?