First time building an outdoor stair - could use some advice

[sequoia]

So I need to build a stair from a rear sliding door to the ground. I have bought pre-made stringer and thread from pressure treated wood from local store. The height from the door to the ground is perfect for 5 riser. I am hoping to build something easy and last a long time. Does not have to be fancy. This is for a rental property. My question are:
1. How should I support the stringer on the ground? I was thinking to dig down like 8 inches, put down gravel and then the stringer can rest on top of paving stones.
2. I have read I need to build landing the end of the stair. The stair can not just terminate to the ground. Is this a building code? If it is a building code, any idea what is the minimum dimension of the landing?
3. If I need to build a landing, I am thinking using paving stones. Beside paving stone, any other options that are easier to put down? Would pouring concrete be a better option?

Again, I am trying to go for easy of installation and it need to last a long time. Location is in Kentucky.

Appreciate any input! 

[pudding]

you can dig 8" down and put gravel in, but be sure to get something to tamp it down really well. Or you could buy a couple of bags of concrete mix and put that in there, would be strong then.

I think the landing that people told you about has to be at the top, because you cant step out the door straight onto steps. So you'd have to build a landing. Thats a bigger job.

[lthenderson]

Depends on where you live. Where I live, the frost line is 18" deep so any footing for the stairs would go that deep so that I don't have to continually redo the stairs every so many years when the ground heaves them out of level, especially in a rental where could be a potential lawsuit.

[Fishindude]

If you are in a  freeze / thaw area, the bottom of stairs should be supported by a footing or posts that extend to below the frost line.
If you don't do this, when the ground freezes the bottom of stairs will heave upward changing the angle, making treads out of level and may eventually tear the wood framing apart.

[sequoia]

Location is in Kentucky. I think I read somewhere 8 inch is deep enough, but I will re-confirm that. Since it is not a big project, easy enough to dig deeper for the footing than needed just to be absolute sure. Thanks!

[Fishindude]

Shouldn't be much of  a freeze problem in KY.
I'd probably still pour a little concrete slab landing, or set some posts to anchor it to, so it can't get bumped out of position.

[Systems101]

The first rule in all of this is CHECK THE LOCAL BUILDING CODE.  Nothing said here is precise to your situation, and thus should not absolve you of that requirement.

I think the landing that people told you about has to be at the top, because you cant step out the door straight onto steps. So you'd have to build a landing. Thats a bigger job.

^This.  Check local code, but as a rough guideline, expect the landing to be a minimum of 36" or enough to cover the entire swing of the door, whichever is larger.

Shouldn't be much of  a freeze problem in KY.

:o 

Frost can be more invasive than you expect.  I've seen footers on stairs in New England sitting on 8 foot footings, and even those were being raised by frost... and stairs changing by 1/2" a year creates a safety hazard very quickly.  I'm warmer/further south than Kentucky, and local code here is >8".   

I make no guarantee that is current code, but gives you the magnitude of what you can expect to deal with... In Kentucky, it will be a few feet down (see Table 403.1.4):
http://dhbc.ky.gov/bce/bc/Documents/2007%20Kentucky%20Residential%20Code%20June%202011.pdf

Again, lots for you to ensure you get right here... check the local building code. 

[sequoia]

Thank you for the link for local code. I been searching for it.

The first rule in all of this is CHECK THE LOCAL BUILDING CODE.  Nothing said here is precise to your situation, and thus should not absolve you of that requirement.

I think the landing that people told you about has to be at the top, because you cant step out the door straight onto steps. So you'd have to build a landing. Thats a bigger job.

^This.  Check local code, but as a rough guideline, expect the landing to be a minimum of 36" or enough to cover the entire swing of the door, whichever is larger.

It does not have a swing door, it has sliding door. Going to check the code if it require landing on top or not.

[BudgetSlasher]

you can dig 8" down and put gravel in, but be sure to get something to tamp it down really well. Or you could buy a couple of bags of concrete mix and put that in there, would be strong then.

I think the landing that people told you about has to be at the top, because you cant step out the door straight onto steps. So you'd have to build a landing. Thats a bigger job.

A landing may also be required in the stairs if they are taller than a certain height, back of my mind says 10 feet, but as always check the local building code or with the local code enforcement officer.

[CDP45]

Watch a lot of youtube videos on building stairs.
Watch what they do, not just what they say (contractors typically forgot to mention a lot of steps/activities/preplanning).

Return those pre-cut stringers and go buy 3 pressure treated 2x12 and make the right cuts.

You could also think about making the whole structure freestanding vs doing all the complicated and potentially disastrous ledgerboard waterproofing since you don't know what you're doing.

Basically as folks have said you need to make a mini-deck at the door level and then have the stairs off that.

I recommend star-head screws, they eliminate a minor source of frustration.

OR! Just get 3 bids...

[paddedhat]

Just a quick note from a builder, who lives in an area with a 42" frost depth requirement. In most climates with frost, you do not need to provide frost footings for the bottom of a set of steps. Mine are attached to a wide "foot plate", which is a treated 2x10 laying flat. this is laying on a bed of gravel that drains well. This is probably the most common technique in my region, with the balance being stringers that land on a small patch of concrete, like a bit of sidewalk, which is also placed on a bed of free draining gravel. Frost needs three things to do damage. Moisture, low temps, and a media that can store the moisture, like soil.  If you eliminate one of the three, no damage.

 Doubt me? Every highway in frost country does just fine without frost footers, as long as they are properly constructed on a bed of well drained gravel.  A lot of well meaning installers totally screw up frost protected post installations since they don't understand frost lenses, or frost jacking. they dig a tapered hole, with a post hole digger, then pour a cone shaped, jagged concrete pad for the post to sit on. The cone shape and rough edges create places for the frost to grab and jack. Every year the frost will lift the concrete a bit, until the post is pushed up. Once the ground thaws the post fails to settle back down, and the post is a few inches higher. I have seen this process actually push a post out of the ground, over decades of cycling.

[Tjat]

With 5 steps, you also need a railing. If not required by local code (which would be surprising) most insurance companies would require it. You may also just want to get a quote for a simple pre-cast concrete steps. May be pretty cost comparable and be a heck of a lot easier.

[sequoia]

With 5 steps, you also need a railing. If not required by local code (which would be surprising) most insurance companies would require it. You may also just want to get a quote for a simple pre-cast concrete steps. May be pretty cost comparable and be a heck of a lot easier.

Yes, I am planning to install railing. I do not know what pre-cast concrete steps are, but will do some research now. Thank you!

[paddedhat]

With 5 steps, you also need a railing. If not required by local code (which would be surprising) most insurance companies would require it. You may also just want to get a quote for a simple pre-cast concrete steps. May be pretty cost comparable and be a heck of a lot easier.

Yes, I am planning to install railing. I do not know what pre-cast concrete steps are, but will do some research now. Thank you!

They are expensive ($600-800 for this size in my area) difficult to bolt railings to, and totally unsuited for a treated deck. They are typically used as entrance stairs to homes, and bolted to the foundation.

[Tjat]

With 5 steps, you also need a railing. If not required by local code (which would be surprising) most insurance companies would require it. You may also just want to get a quote for a simple pre-cast concrete steps. May be pretty cost comparable and be a heck of a lot easier.

Yes, I am planning to install railing. I do not know what pre-cast concrete steps are, but will do some research now. Thank you!

They are expensive ($600-800 for this size in my area) difficult to bolt railings to, and totally unsuited for a treated deck. They are typically used as entrance stairs to homes, and bolted to the foundation.

From the OP I believe it would be serving as the entrance without a deck. I'm also thinking that in addition to materials, OP likely has to buy a bunch of tools, which could bring the costs closer together. Then add time considerations, which exist, even for a mustachian.

[paddedhat]

With 5 steps, you also need a railing. If not required by local code (which would be surprising) most insurance companies would require it. You may also just want to get a quote for a simple pre-cast concrete steps. May be pretty cost comparable and be a heck of a lot easier.

Yes, I am planning to install railing. I do not know what pre-cast concrete steps are, but will do some research now. Thank you!

They are expensive ($600-800 for this size in my area) difficult to bolt railings to, and totally unsuited for a treated deck. They are typically used as entrance stairs to homes, and bolted to the foundation.

From the OP I believe it would be serving as the entrance without a deck. I'm also thinking that in addition to materials, OP likely has to buy a bunch of tools, which could bring the costs closer together. Then add time considerations, which exist, even for a mustachian.

My mistake, I had read all the comments about treated stringers, and such, and forgot that it was just a set of entrance steps. That said, they are still expensive, they typically end up with dated looking "wrought iron" handrails cemented in to the steps, or some type of wooden ones half-ass bolted to the sides. The other issue is access, they are heavy, and are set in place with a truck mounted crane. The  20 ton+ delivery truck needs to get real close to the  final resting place of the steps, so the crane can boom out and install them. In some cases, particularly in new construction where most are used, it's no big deal. In a lot of existing homes, either the truck can't get to the location at all, or the homeowner is not willing to risk trashing the yard and landscaping to install precast units.

[sequoia]

Yeah I think the precast concrete steps is out. This is for steps in front of a sliding door in the back yard. A delivery truck can not access to the back yard to deliver this.