Replace AC Compressor in 96 Accord?

[fidgiegirl]

Hubby's AC has been out for a few years.  I am starting to wonder if we can fix it ourselves.  We're racking up a lot more miles on my car than his because my air works and his doesn't and it is black to boot!

We think it is the compressor because we had the freon charged and then about a year later, maybe less, the air wasn't working anymore.  A garage told us it was not the freon and that we would need to pay about $800 to fix it.  But it's been so long that I can't remember what exactly they said the problem was.  He's been without air for two years, I think.  We'd like to keep driving the car until it dies, and it has about 150K miles.  It should last a while, but we want it to be comfortable to use!

We aren't really motorheads.  Pretty little experience with auto maintenance, limited to oil changes, air filter changes, battery swap outs . . . pretty much it.  I did find a good eHow that was straightforward.  We have done what felt like complicated DIY projects with no previous experience and the results have always been positive, so I have hope.

My main concern is that I hate to buy the compressor and then have that not be the right thing.

Thoughts?

[Bakari]

It could still be the freon, trickling out through a slow leak.  You would need to hook up a pressure gauge and see that its still full to rule that out.

Could be the clutch between the pulley and the compressor, or the clutch's control mechanism (does the compressor hum or make noise when the air is turned on, if you have your head under the hood?)

If its anything other than a leak, you can probably fix it yourself.

Although, my real recommendation is to pull the old compressor, and not replace it.
Put some heat reflecting tint on the windows, get some beaded seat covers, maybe paint the roof reflective silver, and find a 12V auto fan.
In order to remove the temptation of using the car with working A/C, pull the compressor from that car too.

Bonus: better gas mileage.
Extra bonus: increased baddassity

[fidgiegirl]

Hmmmm, bakari, thanks!  DH has admittedly thought about the 12V fan.  I'll keep working on him re: the other solutions, especially the window film.

The rest sounds so complicated . . . hmmmm, maybe my confidence is waning.  Anyone?

When it comes to cars my DIY self withers a bit . . . and then I feel guilty for stealing someone's wages, kind of.  I have a long history of DIY and usually don't feel this way.  Or I'm just letting it be a coverup for not knowing what the heck to do (yet)!

[kisserofsinners]

Bakari, You are so hard core...

This is exactly the same trouble i'm having with my 3yrs/60k older Honda. I'm about 12 mo from doing anything about it given your timeline above. :) ...And then i see Bakari's post and feel like a wussy for wanting my AC.

However, I have a delicate flower of a wife and though she's unwilling to pay $70/year to refill the freon, she'd totally let me get a compressor and install it.

**secret to auto care**
It's easier than you think. For women (generally), cars, computers, and basic appliance repair has this intense (and largely inaccurate) legend of difficulty. Men have an equivalent with stitch work, recipe following, and communication. Obviously this is generally speaking, i hang with all the exceptions, too.

But really think about it... How smart do you think that mechanic really is? Cars have worked, more or less, with the exact same technology for >100 years. Sure we're added fuel injectors and computers, but we've also got testing gear in every strip mall with an auto parts store. The autos hop has them, too. They're vested in them doing the work. The auto prats store is your ticket. They are super helpful, because they make their money off the part and want you to come back next time. I've even borrowed tools to work on my car in their parking lot when i was out f town and needed to install a thermostat.

You have access to more really good and completely FREE info online via youtube and wikihow, etc. Just try it!!! The worst yuo're gonna do is not have AC....and we're already there. Checking out what was posted above won't break the car. It will only improve your chances of getting the AC and learning something new and fun. :)

Good Luck.

[fidgiegirl]

The worst yuo're gonna do is not have AC....and we're already there.

Thanks for this.  Once I replaced the hard drive in my laptop and extended its life by about a year before another part went that couldn't be replaced.  Only had 3 screws left over.  :)  It took a while to figure out what to buy and how to do it, but I did it.  It was a seminal moment in my DIY timeline.  A large part of preparing to actually do this was to come to the very conclusion you point out above.  My computer already didn't work.  How much worse was it going to be if I screwed up the hard drive replacement?  I already only had a boat anchor on my hands.

Plus, after I posted this, I broke the heat dial in his car.  Ay ay ay.  I better get a'learnin'.

[fidgiegirl]

So this has ballooned into three DIY projects for this Honda, the A/C being the least of the worries at this point.

First, DH doesn't want me to work on the car because the hood is nearly impossible to re-latch.  Well, my research points to the cable on the hood release needing to be replaced.  Turns out this is very common on Hondas.  Maybe it's common for all cars.  Who knows?

Second, I broke the heat control.  Now it looks like we need to either get a new knob or a temp control shaft.  Either way this one will be a must-do before winter.  Unfortunately, it also appears to involve removing the dash to access?  Need to do more research on this one.

Ay ay ay . . . I did sign up for the forums over at honda-tech.com hoping those fine folks can give me a hand if I run into issues once I get the repair manuals from the library.  But it will be a slow job.  Maybe I need to do one at a time, like the heater control first.  They are all kind of involved, or they feel that way.  The cable replacement talks about taking off a wheel!  That sounds super scary!

[Bakari]

Second, I broke the heat control.  Now it looks like we need to either get a new knob or a temp control shaft.  Either way this one will be a must-do before winter.

lol - I have been putting off fixing the heat in my truck for almost 3 years.  Every winter I feel its too cold to be out in the driveway working on it.  Every summer I forget about it, cause it isn't cold!  I know it would probably be pretty easy, but I can't figure out how to get access to the heater core.  The case seems to have been riveted in place instead of bolted!

I've been doing the same that I do in the house in winter - wearing layers, like I would outdoors.
Not that I'm actually recommending that.  I just found it amusing, in light of Kisser's accusation about me earlier

[fidgiegirl]

Second, I broke the heat control.  Now it looks like we need to either get a new knob or a temp control shaft.  Either way this one will be a must-do before winter.

lol - I have been putting off fixing the heat in my truck for almost 3 years.  Every winter I feel its too cold to be out in the driveway working on it.  Every summer I forget about it, cause it isn't cold!  I know it would probably be pretty easy, but I can't figure out how to get access to the heater core.  The case seems to have been riveted in place instead of bolted!

I've been doing the same that I do in the house in winter - wearing layers, like I would outdoors.
Not that I'm actually recommending that.  I just found it amusing, in light of Kisser's accusation about me earlier

LOL, Bakari.

I wish this one could be fixed with layers.  But in MN, the windshield renders the car undriveable within minutes without heat going on it.  :(

I soldier on with this project, though.  I might even venture a new topic over at honda-tech.  It's pretty intimidating to post on a car forum for me, but what the heck.

[fidgiegirl]

I got the knob off, haha, just had to pull it off . . . and it's broken!  Step one accomplished!

However, the little shafty thing that it turns doesn't even really turn right with a pliers.  So further investigation is warranted.  But it was a triumph to even figure out this much :)

[kisserofsinners]

I got the knob off, haha, just had to pull it off . . . and it's broken!  Step one accomplished!

However, the little shafty thing that it turns doesn't even really turn right with a pliers.  So further investigation is warranted.  But it was a triumph to even figure out this much :)

Those little things are worthy of celebration! You took the first step. Well done. :)

[trammatic]

So, IMHO, cosmetic things are the easiest to fix...  Junkyards are great resources for used auto parts, and things like a hood cable and a heater knob are prime candidates.  Junkyards come in two different varieties: either you tell them what you need, and they go pull it for you, or you bring your tools and are allowed into the graveyard yourself to go take off what you need. 

I would almost always go for the second type because you can figure out how to take the old one off without worrying about breaking anything, and if you do break a plastic clip accidentally, leave it there and find another one!  Also, the types who typically visit these places are gearheads, and if you run into a unsolvable problem, a polite question will typically yield a very informative answer.  So find one, and take your heater knob.  Find another similar car, and go pull its heater knob off.  Should cost you maybe $5.  Also work at taking the hood latch cable off of it.  Remember, if you mess it up, shrug and move on to another car.  When you're done, go check out, and then buy the stuff and install it in your car.  It should be easier now that you know how it works.  If the heater knob still doesn't work, then go further.

As for the A/C, you can get a pressure gauge cheaply on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/R-134a-Recharge-Gauge-R134A-RECHARGE/dp/B000BPXT7A or at most auto stores.  Hook it onto the low pressure port and you can see if the system has pressure or not.  If it doesn't have pressure, go buy some refrigerant with dye in it (http://www.amazon.com/ARTIC-FREEZE-RECHARGE-KIT-LIGHT/dp/B001810SHA/)  As it leaks out, some UV seeable dye comes out as well, so after dark, take a UV light to the engine compartment and you'll see where the leak is.  Then you know what to get at the junkyard. :)  Seriously, if you find a junked car that looked to be in decent condition, AND the cost of the new component was more than 3x or 4x more than the junked one, just pick your part.

Good luck!!

[kisserofsinners]

So, IMHO, cosmetic things are the easiest to fix...  Junkyards are great resources for used auto parts, and things like a hood cable and a heater knob are prime candidates.  Junkyards come in two different varieties: either you tell them what you need, and they go pull it for you, or you bring your tools and are allowed into the graveyard yourself to go take off what you need. 

I would almost always go for the second type because you can figure out how to take the old one off without worrying about breaking anything, and if you do break a plastic clip accidentally, leave it there and find another one!  Also, the types who typically visit these places are gearheads, and if you run into a unsolvable problem, a polite question will typically yield a very informative answer.  So find one, and take your heater knob.  Find another similar car, and go pull its heater knob off.  Should cost you maybe $5.  Also work at taking the hood latch cable off of it.  Remember, if you mess it up, shrug and move on to another car.  When you're done, go check out, and then buy the stuff and install it in your car.  It should be easier now that you know how it works.  If the heater knob still doesn't work, then go further.

As for the A/C, you can get a pressure gauge cheaply on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/R-134a-Recharge-Gauge-R134A-RECHARGE/dp/B000BPXT7A or at most auto stores.  Hook it onto the low pressure port and you can see if the system has pressure or not.  If it doesn't have pressure, go buy some refrigerant with dye in it (http://www.amazon.com/ARTIC-FREEZE-RECHARGE-KIT-LIGHT/dp/B001810SHA/)  As it leaks out, some UV seeable dye comes out as well, so after dark, take a UV light to the engine compartment and you'll see where the leak is.  Then you know what to get at the junkyard. :)  Seriously, if you find a junked car that looked to be in decent condition, AND the cost of the new component was more than 3x or 4x more than the junked one, just pick your part.

Good luck!!

You might be too pressed for time to do this, but i know several Pick-in-Pull places that do semi annual sales (usually at the end of summer and winter). Everything is half off and anything that you can carry out in your arms is $X. ...You know, if you end up needing to replace the whole AC system. ;o)

Definitely love the tip about learning how to take it apart and not caring if it breaks. Well played.

[fidgiegirl]

trammatic, thanks very very much for the tips.  I ended up ordering the knob on eBay ($6 or something super like that) but for the A/C parts I am going to keep this in mind.  There is a junkyard by my dad's that would be perfect, and another on the way to his house.

The pressure and dye links were very very helpful.  Thanks for taking the time to post!!

Over on the Honda board they are doing their best to be helpful, but like many scenarios involving experts, it's hard for them to remember how much a beginner simply doesn't yet know.  We all have this expert blind spot in some area.  I was reminded of my own last night helping my FIL set up his new Mac and he didn't even know how to drag a message to a folder in e-mail, and I had taken that for super duper granted.  It takes a special person to overcome it, and that is you!  :)  THANKS!

[reverend]

We think it is the compressor because we had the freon charged and then about a year later, maybe less, the air wasn't working anymore.  A garage told us it was not the freon and that we would need to pay about $800 to fix it.  But it's been so long that I can't

1, It's not freon. Since '93 or so it's been R134a. (Ok, so that's a nitpick hehe).
2, The most common failure is that you're slowly leaking out the refrigerant and when you're low enough, the pressure switch disables the A/C compressor.

If you have a shop manual, you can find the pressure switch and jumper it with a wire to "lie" to the system that you have adequate pressure.  If the compressor kicks in, then you're low on refrigerant.
Snag one of those refill cans at the auto parts store, one with a gauge. Start the car, turn on the A/C and then fill until the gauge shows you that you have enough refrigerant in the system. You should hear the clicking of the A/C compressor kicking on and off.

This means you have a slow leak. Most r134a cans these days have a bit of UV dye in it, so pick up a test light and look for the leak along the A/C lines and you should see the color splash where the leak is.  If it's a simple line to replace, run the car and A/C until it doesn't work anymore (meaning it's empty) and replace the line. Then either buy the vacuum at harbor freight and vacuum the system for a few hours (you want NO moisture in it and water boils sooner in a vacuum) then refill it and you should be ok.

You could also pay a shop to do it, but it's expensive that way.  Or you could replace the line and use HC-12 instead. It's a hydrocarbon refrigerant (a mix of propane and butane) which is more efficient, less harmful and far cheaper.

[1tolivesimply]

1, It's not freon. Since '93 or so it's been R134a. (Ok, so that's a nitpick hehe).
2, The most common failure is that you're slowly leaking out the refrigerant and when you're low enough, the pressure switch disables the A/C compressor.

If you have a shop manual, you can find the pressure switch and jumper it with a wire to "lie" to the system that you have adequate pressure.  If the compressor kicks in, then you're low on refrigerant.
Snag one of those refill cans at the auto parts store, one with a gauge. Start the car, turn on the A/C and then fill until the gauge shows you that you have enough refrigerant in the system. You should hear the clicking of the A/C compressor kicking on and off.

This means you have a slow leak. Most r134a cans these days have a bit of UV dye in it, so pick up a test light and look for the leak along the A/C lines and you should see the color splash where the leak is.  If it's a simple line to replace, run the car and A/C until it doesn't work anymore (meaning it's empty) and replace the line. Then either buy the vacuum at harbor freight and vacuum the system for a few hours (you want NO moisture in it and water boils sooner in a vacuum) then refill it and you should be ok.

You could also pay a shop to do it, but it's expensive that way.  Or you could replace the line and use HC-12 instead. It's a hydrocarbon refrigerant (a mix of propane and butane) which is more efficient, less harmful and far cheaper.

reverend is correct, also, if it's the compressor leaking; you can just remove it and take it to a compressor repair shop so they "rebuild it". They basically replace the seals and make sure it does not leak anymore. Once you do that, follow reverend's instructions and you should be good to go.

[frugal_engineer]

Or, since you said the A/C worked for nearly a year after the last charge up, your leak is VERY slow.  The correct solution if that is in fact true is to fill it each summer with a $15 can of R134A and save your several hundred dollars from changing out the compressor for something else. 

Also, that job is generally not for automotive repair rookies imho. Lots of ways to do something wrong so that the new system has a limited life.

[thurston howell iv]

I would purchase a small can of refrigerant and some dye that you can put into the system. The auto parts store sells the special flashlight and giggles kit for $15- I just bought one the other day.  Put in the dye and a/c so the compressor will kick on if it's not broken. Look for the leak and replace or repair as necessary.

[Matte]

They sell the can kits for DIY that have one can of sealer and a can of r134a refridgerant.  Gordon in minutes and the ac blows cold, it does last a season or two but st 40 bucks a kit well worth it.  Harbor freight or auto parts stores have them.

[fidgiegirl]

Wow all, thanks for all the awesome advice.  Not sure how the thread was resurrected after so many months, but it's fun to see when that happens.

And you've made me think about this again.  Now is not especially the time to traditionally be thinking about A/C in Minnesota, but my in-laws have a nice heated garage under their condo building, and so perhaps I could spend some time this winter doing the A/C before the weather starts broiling us again - the inevitable time to do a forehead smack and say "doh!  I never worked on the A/C!"

The knob issue is fixed and the heater blend thing seems to be better, and the hood latch is resolved well enough.  So it's really the A/C that is the main issue with this car now.  Mainly a comfort issue, but still an issue.

Our car fund is growing, but the longer we can limp this guy along, the longer we can build up the car fund!  And as MMM says, the skills learned are priceless.

[thurston howell iv]

"limp along"?  What else is wrong with the car besides high miles?  I have 207k on my Honda and still going strong.