Relatively inexpensive eco house?

[Forcus]

Just got done paying $380 for our electrical / gas for the month (and it wasn't even that cold). I want our next house to be tight, economical, and if possible net-zero on utilities. The problem is there are no folks around here that do that kind of housing, so I am on my own to research and assemble the information to move forward. Are there any blogs, sites, etc., equivalent to this one that deal with this kind of thing? Also this would be a 1,000-1,500 ft2 house, no tiny houses (though I love them, the wife would not go for it).

[gecko10x]

I think there is a wide-ranging view on how to build an "eco" home. You'll find proponents for everything from subterranean homes (bomb-shelter homes, subterranean dome homes, etc.) to high-tech, air-tight houses covered in solar panels.

My personal preference is something in-between - we are planning to build an Enertia home eventually. Basically, it looks like a modern log home, but is a giant solar heat-sink (read the science). Not in the inexpensive category though.

Edit: wording modification

[jpluncford21]

My preference
http://www.simondale.net/

[velocistar237]

I like straw bale houses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_bale_house
http://newprairieconstruction.com/urbana-straw-bale

[destron]

My preference
http://www.simondale.net/

I love that hobbit house.

Link appears dead so I found an alternate with some photos:

http://naturalhomes.org/simondale.htm

[Forcus]

The Enertia homes are very interesting. I wonder what the true cost of building is since the kit is essentially the wood structural elements.

The hobbit houses are a no go (interesting though).

I've thought about the straw bale houses but need to learn and understand more. If I approached the wife with that I think she'd kill me. But if there was some thorough research involved, and they looked and functioned like regular houses, might be an option.

[Forcus]

I like straw bale houses.

http://newprairieconstruction.com/urbana-straw-bale

That's very interesting, Urbana is only a couple hours away..

[Jamesqf]

Not directly an eco-house, but I'd recommend checking out the books in the "Not So Big House" series by Sarah Susanka for ideas on how to make a smaller house that's more liveable.

[velocistar237]

I've thought about the straw bale houses but need to learn and understand more. If I approached the wife with that I think she'd kill me. But if there was some thorough research involved, and they looked and functioned like regular houses, might be an option.

A lot of them are mud huts, but some are nice.

http://www.integratedstructures.com/sms/beauty.html

[Kenoryn]

Try your library - there are all kinds of good books on strawbale, cob, cordwood, earth-sheltered, etc. houses, and all of these can be built like weird hippie houses (some of which are still very cool) or normal-looking modern houses. You could probably design a straw-bale house so you'd never know if wasn't a conventional house (except it would have quite thick walls).

On the other hand, you can also build a conventional house in an eco-friendly way, by using renewable materials like wood, insulating well, using heat recovery ventilation and incorporating passive solar design and more efficient energy distribution systems like radiant in-floor heating.

[StarswirlTheMustached]

What counts as an inexpensive housing option depends hugely on your region.
For example: straw bale is great on the praeries, but if you're not surrounded by straw-producing farms, it gets a lot more expensive. Likewise, if you're not in a forested region a log cabin is usually a dead-stupid idea.
Some climates you need to focus on keeping warm, others on keeping cold, and you'd best believe that that does make a difference to the architecture.

As for forums, the folk at http://www.permies.com/ have a wealth of green/alternative building info. Most of the green/alternative building options you hear discussed, though, like strawbale, cob, earth-sheltered (which needn't look like a hobbit-home, as Kenoryn points out) are inexpensive for the owner-builder: that is, they trade materials costs for labour costs and/or craftsmanship/expertise that you'll have to supply yourself. If you're the kind of guy who would call a contractor and call it a day, you're probably best off with traditional stick-frame construction, framed with offset studs (so you can fit in more insulation) and the other, more conventional superinsulating tricks.

[Jack]

If you're the kind of guy who would call a contractor and call it a day, you're probably best off with traditional stick-frame construction, framed with offset studs (so you can fit in more insulation) and the other, more conventional superinsulating tricks.

I think there are other contractor-friendly materials that are superior to stick-building; namely, SIPs and ICFs.

SIPs (Structural Insulated Panels) are large (4 feet wide x however tall your walls are), thick panels of rigid foam insulation with plywood glued to each side. When stood on end and attached to each other, they form a structural wall with continuous insulation.

ICFs (Insulated Concrete Forms) are pairs of styrofoam blocks attached to each other (but spaced several inches apart) with plastic struts. Shaped to interlock without tools, they are stacked in a brick pattern, reinforced with rebar (which attach to the plastic struts), then the void in the middle is filled with concrete.

Although these building materials cost more than stick-building, they tend to require less labor to install and thus the finished structure has a relatively small cost premium over a stick-built one.

[meadow lark]

A lot of comfort comes from design choices that don't cost more.  Passive solar, for instance.  Make the vast majority of your windows on the south side.  Those windows should not be tinted to reduce solar gain!  We had to special order them.  Make the long axis of your house run east-west, So you have more southern exposure.  Our last house had gutters that fed into a cistern, and that cistern was plumbed into our toilet and washing machine.  Also, you can drain the line from the washing machine and showers out into the garden.  If wind is your issue, plant your landscaping in a way to reduce wind around your house.  Research a little, it's not as simple as planting a row of trees in a ring around your house.  Also edible landscaping.  Consider a cold cellar for storing things.  And, of course, be aware of your commute, and distance to stores, schools, church, etc. 

[gooki]

Read this book.

Green from the ground up

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/156158973X

[Forcus]

Thank you so much guys. I think, based on what the wife will tolerate, it will be conventional building with green themes. Lots of insulation, a heat pump for HVAC, and integrated solar panels (I might do this part myself). The solar panels are what really appeal to me, the prices have come down so much from what they once were.

[lauren_knows]

I've been poking around the internet for at least a year trying to find information about builders in my area that do net-zero energy homes or leed certified homes.  Not a lot of information exists out there.  It seems like you need to get very involved with an architect and builder before you even find out specifics about their home construction techniques.

We plan on moving in 2-4 years and I would LOVE to build a super-efficient home, but I really want to know if its possible to do within my budget, and I just can't find that info online.

[StarswirlTheMustached]

Thank you so much guys. I think, based on what the wife will tolerate, it will be conventional building with green themes. Lots of insulation, a heat pump for HVAC, and integrated solar panels (I might do this part myself). The solar panels are what really appeal to me, the prices have come down so much from what they once were.

Don't forget solar thermal for your hot water. The payoff is often (depending on the competing subsidies) quite a lot quicker than PV.

[velocistar237]

Custom-building a house is an expensive proposition. You would be much better off financially if you overhaul an existing house, say, the one you have now. I suspect that many Net-Zero houses cost more than conventional houses, all things considered. What prevents you from adding insulation, air sealing, making thermal shades, installing Bakari's DC solar setup, etc., to your current house?

[Kenoryn]

Custom-building a house is an expensive proposition. You would be much better off financially if you overhaul an existing house, say, the one you have now. I suspect that many Net-Zero houses cost more than conventional houses, all things considered. What prevents you from adding insulation, air sealing, making thermal shades, installing Bakari's DC solar setup, etc., to your current house?

On the other hand, one of the advantages of some of the alternative building techniques like strawbale is that they're pretty easy for the average homeowner/homeowner's friends with no construction knowledge to jump in on and do much of the labour. Strawbale in my area works out to about the same cost as conventional, but if you were doing a lot of the labour yourself (under the guidance of a professional) presumably that would be a big savings.

[Rural]

We have just about finished our own passive solar, earth-sheltered house; we're expecting to move into it in about a month. We've lived on less than half our income and put the rest into building the house debt-free. We have just over $50K in the house now and we'll be near $65-70K before we're ready to call it "finished," which will happen sometime after we move in. That money's almost exclusively in building supplies; this has been a DIY house all the way. But it can be done, and for not too much.

That figure is house alone; we have another $50K in the land -- that's a mortgage, we still owe nearly $13K, and we'll pay that off in another year.

[lauren_knows]

We have just about finished our own passive solar, earth-sheltered house; we're expecting to move into it in about a month. We've lived on less than half our income and put the rest into building the house debt-free. We have just over $50K in the house now and we'll be near $65-70K before we're ready to call it "finished," which will happen sometime after we move in. That money's almost exclusively in building supplies; this has been a DIY house all the way. But it can be done, and for not too much.

That figure is house alone; we have another $50K in the land -- that's a mortgage, we still owe nearly $13K, and we'll pay that off in another year.

Even if you figure in labor costs for hiring out, that's pretty good.  What are the rough stats on the home? sqft, bed/bath?  Congrats.

[AlexK]

Rural, please make a thread with pics, we want to see this!

[decon50]

i recommend looking into Passive House standards as well:

http://www.passivehouse.us/passiveHouse/PassiveHouseInfo.html

http://www.passivehouse.us/passiveHouse/FAQ.html

This strategy will probably cost 5-10% more than a standard energy code compliant house but will get you 80-90% to net zero (and w/o using PV). 

[velocistar237]

i recommend looking into Passive House standards as well

Here's a similar idea: the "Pretty Good House".

[Rural]

We have just about finished our own passive solar, earth-sheltered house; we're expecting to move into it in about a month. We've lived on less than half our income and put the rest into building the house debt-free. We have just over $50K in the house now and we'll be near $65-70K before we're ready to call it "finished," which will happen sometime after we move in. That money's almost exclusively in building supplies; this has been a DIY house all the way. But it can be done, and for not too much.

That figure is house alone; we have another $50K in the land -- that's a mortgage, we still owe nearly $13K, and we'll pay that off in another year.

Even if you figure in labor costs for hiring out, that's pretty good.  What are the rough stats on the home? sqft, bed/bath?  Congrats.

Thanks! The house is nearly 2200 sf, more than I would have preferred, but a marriage is a partnership. :)

It's actually 1 bed, 2 bath -- we designed for ourselves, which means we need one bedroom, one office, one library, one man cave, one dog room, one kitchen, and one living room. All one level and 38" doorways; we plan to age in place, though we're nowhere near there yet.

We did hire out the poured concrete walls and slab (10" concrete walls on all but the south side for thermal mass and to support the weight of the berm). That takes experts with specialized equipment, which we are not. We're also currently hiring out the drywall to speed things up; we've been living in a mobile home which had been left on the property by the previous owners, but it's over 30 years old and not long for this world now, so we think hurrying is called for. Roughly 3/4 of the drywall work is included in the $50K figure, but it's got another week to go. Oh, and the insulation is spray foam, which also requires experts and specialized equipment; that was hired out too, also included in the figure.

The ceilings are 10 feet (this is the South, remember), and the roof is actually metal; we wanted an earth roof but our calculations convinced us we could insulate to R40 much more cheaply than we could build in the structure to support the weight of earth and water, and if any problems develop, fixes will be much easier this way.

[Rural]

Rural, please make a thread with pics, we want to see this!

I'll see what I can do.

[decon50]

i recommend looking into Passive House standards as well

Here's a similar idea: the "Pretty Good House".

great article, i'm bookmarking that one for later use.  i can't disagree w/ anything said there. 

[Forcus]

Lots of material, thank you guys! And Rural could you put a link on this thread when you are done, I don't want to miss what you did.

Lots of things appeal to me on the "pretty good house" site so I am excited!

[MountainFlower]

Orienting your house south is really huge.  Our house gets up to 78 degrees in the winter during the afternoon and we're at 9000 ft elevation in a wind tunnel.  In other words, it's brutally cold outside.  We also haven't fully chinked our logs, so we have air gaps all over the place and it still gets that hot.  That's with tinted windows and solar shades on 1/2 of the windows.  We'd fry like bugs under a magnifying glass without tinting and solar shades.

We have a friend who was into straw bale houses until one of the "Pioneers" in that type of construction pulled him aside and said, don't do it.  They aren't very good.  This is in the Boulder area, so lots of people into that kind of thing.  I'd build ICF to do it again.

[Rural]

The south orientation is paying off for us, too. No heat in the place yet, and at 21 outside, it's 53 inside early morning.

We have hardwoods, though, or we'd fry for sure in a Southern summer! Also a porch roof set up to shade the windows roughly from equinox to equinox.

[KimPossible]

Rural, please do start a thread on your home when you have time.  Add me to the list of people who want to learn more!

[Rural]

Sorry. I keep meaning to,but I'm always somewhere I can't access my pictures when I think of it (like now). I'll start one soon.

[Kaytee]

We're planning to build an earthship when we buy land in a few years. (http://earthship.com/). I think the cottage style can be built for $45,000 if you do most of the work yourself and depending on how fancy you want to get with them. Otherwise, I think they are comparable with more conventional housing on a cost per sf basis. As with any construction project, it's really what you make of it. Most houses can be built inexpensively if you take time over convenience and scavenge, reclaim, or barter for materials and appliances versus buying new.

[jpluncford21]

Rural, please do start a thread on your home when you have time.  Add me to the list of people who want to learn more!

I second that! I would like to keep up with that. My wife and I are interested in building a house similar to the Simondale.net house I posted. I'm not sure what the resale value is on a hobbit house though ;)

[Bakari]

....installing Bakari's DC solar setup, etc., to your current house?

DC solar is particularly well suited to a custom built house, because you can wire it for DC (or dual AC/DC wire systems) from the beginning.
It could be done either way, but if you were to build from scratch, and you wanted solar, DC 12v would make it much cheaper and easier to install yourself (its probably not even be legal to instal utility intertie solar yourself).

[Spork]

Expensive/inexpensive is very location dependent.  Our house build was considerably more than Rural's... but our utilities are considerably less than the OP.

We're either 1600 sqft or 2300 sqft, depending on how you want to measure it. **   We have our electric down to $60/mo and I think we've gotten to a point where we top off our 500gal propane tank a little more than once a year.***  Propane is kind of expensive, but that was our only option for gas.

The only thing we did differently was use expanding foam insulation and use a wood stove for heat in the winter. 

If you do go the wood stove route, I have a huge suggestion:  make sure your main HVAC air return is in the same room with and relatively near the wood stove.  Ours was not.  I did retrofit a return near the stove, but because it was done after the fact, it is considerably smaller than it could have been if done before the walls/ceilings were put up.  We use the wood stove and run the HVAC on 'fan only' to circulate the heat through the house.


** 1600 sqft downstairs and 700 sqft unfinished upstairs.
*** We never really fill it from zero but when it hits about 55% the propane company tops it

[Rural]

Okay, how do I post pictures to the forum? Do I need to upload them elsewhere first? Any suggestions if so?

Spork, we're going with window unit heat pumps during this first phase, but most of the heat is passive solar and thermal mass. It works, too. There's no heat at all yet, and the house hasn't gone below 50F on the coldest nights and warms up nicely during the day (nicely means over 60).

I'm already a spray foam true believer. The difference is unbelievable.

I wish we'd wired for photovoltaic from the beginning, but we didn't.

I've forgotten who mentioned the resale value on a hobbit hole, sorry, but yes, that would be a consideration. I don't think I'd worry about ours because of all the windows and natural light -- we need those pictures, I know -- but we aren't selling, anyway. This DIY house building is way too much work for anything less than forever!

[Spork]

@Rural: I'm amazed at how similar our paths have been.  We can even match you on the dog room!

We did window units in the tool shed (the temporary house).  Ours didn't heat (and we used space heaters).  They were 120v and very low efficiency.  In the summer, running ALL DAMN DAY LONG we could never cool below about 95 degrees.  Our electric bill was 2-3x for 600sqft than it is for a 1600/2300 sqft house.

We have only had the heat "on" for 2 hours so far this winter!  (On meaning the thermostat was "on", not that the unit was actually working.)

[Rural]

@Spork: you must've had window unit ACs, not true heat pumps. There's a big difference. Still, I'm looking forward to not using them much.

A dog bedroom in your house, too, huh? Obviously, great minds think alike, especially after living in substandard close quarters with dogs!

Our babies got to go up to the house and play in their new fence for the first time today.

[Spork]

 
One other thing to remember (and something we really didn't consider) for the inexpensive house: pay really close attention to the plans.

The "inexpensive" part was put out there up front when the draftsman (draftswoman?) drew the plans, but I think we might have lost it along the way.   A good indication of the amount of materials used is the number of corners (inside and out) and the complexity of the roofline.  The simplest case is a square box with 2 gable ends. 

We started simple, then tweaked the floor plan to get what we wanted... but in the end we had a relatively unsimple plan.  I actually thought the roofline was fairly simple until I did a flyover with a friend and took some aerial photos.  Not simple.

I'm not 100% sure I'd change it if I had it to do over again.  I'm planning on living here a really long time -- possibly "forever".  But it is a consideration to think about.

[Rural]

My husband did our plans and we adjusted as needed up until the foundation was dug, but we actually do have a simple elongated box with two gable ends except for a courtyard in the middle (so, the house is sort of a squared-off U shape). That gives south-facing windows on all rooms except the two corners (his man cave and the library) and bathrooms and utility room. It was important to us to bring in light because of the earth sheltering, but we knew we didn't want to do it with roof penetrations like skylights or even solar tubes.

The roof is as simple as can be, no valleys whatsoever. I do think that will make a difference; it did in cost and difficulty of doing the roof, and it should also improve durability.

[yolfer]

Anyone know anything about http://www.greenfab.com/ ?

They've built a couple houses in Seattle. I'm considering buying one. They'll install it for you, but then it's just the same price as any other new construction (or even more expensive...$230/sf!).

But you can buy the modules and install them yourself for $80/sf. It takes a team of pros one working day. Not sure if it's like building Ikea furniture, or more like building an atomic bomb...?

[lauren_knows]

Anyone know anything about http://www.greenfab.com/ ?

They've built a couple houses in Seattle. I'm considering buying one. They'll install it for you, but then it's just the same price as any other new construction (or even more expensive...$230/sf!).

But you can buy the modules and install them yourself for $80/sf. It takes a team of pros one working day. Not sure if it's like building Ikea furniture, or more like building an atomic bomb...?

I've visited their site before, and they don't give a whole lot of information on what "installing it yourself" entails.  There seems to be a huge price difference.  If it's literally just painting/patching, some floor work, and siding installation, I'd be on it in a heartbeat.

[yolfer]

Anyone know anything about http://www.greenfab.com/ ?

They've built a couple houses in Seattle. I'm considering buying one. They'll install it for you, but then it's just the same price as any other new construction (or even more expensive...$230/sf!).

But you can buy the modules and install them yourself for $80/sf. It takes a team of pros one working day. Not sure if it's like building Ikea furniture, or more like building an atomic bomb...?

I've visited their site before, and they don't give a whole lot of information on what "installing it yourself" entails.  There seems to be a huge price difference.  If it's literally just painting/patching, some floor work, and siding installation, I'd be on it in a heartbeat.

I have a feeling it's a bit more than that. I think you'd need to prepare the lot for having the house dropped onto it. So grading and foundation. (Maybe the DIY price doesn't even include the cost of having the modular sections lifted off the flatbed!)

Then when the house is in place, there's all the stuff you mentioned, plus landscaping and connecting the utilities. Those are the things that come to mind, but I'm not a homebuilder so there may be more.

I'm not saying that any of it is impossible for a motivated mustachian DYI amateur (MMDIYA). I just want to find out exactly what I'd be getting myself into! I sent them an email a few days ago, and followed-up with a voicemail earlier today. I guess customer service isn't one of their strong suits.

[JamesL]

Shipping container buildings come to mind. I'm actually doing some research on them now to figure out how much it would be to bring one up to par for living. It looks like around $100-200 per sq. foot, so it's not as cheap as I was originally thinking. Although that's with a lot of customization, and you will feel all warm and fuzzy about reusing materials. 

[Spork]

Shipping container buildings come to mind. I'm actually doing some research on them now to figure out how much it would be to bring one up to par for living. It looks like around $100-200 per sq. foot, so it's not as cheap as I was originally thinking. Although that's with a lot of customization, and you will feel all warm and fuzzy about reusing materials.

I saw some article a while back and thought they were sort of cool... but kind of came up with the same thing: not as cheap as I was expecting.

I'll also add: living in a faraday cage has distinct disadvantages.  I did it for 6 years (in a metal work shop).  You'd be surprised how handy RF can be until it isn't there.  It's not something you couldn't work around.  But it's an added PITA.

[yolfer]

I'll also add: living in a faraday cage has distinct disadvantages.  I did it for 6 years (in a metal work shop).  You'd be surprised how handy RF can be until it isn't there.  It's not something you couldn't work around.  But it's an added PITA.

For some reason, this reminds me of something that would be in an XKCD comic!

[Spork]

I'll also add: living in a faraday cage has distinct disadvantages.  I did it for 6 years (in a metal work shop).  You'd be surprised how handy RF can be until it isn't there.  It's not something you couldn't work around.  But it's an added PITA.

For some reason, this reminds me of something that would be in an XKCD comic!

It felt like it at the time, too. 

Always remember to leave your cell phone on the window sill!

[Rural]

I'll also add: living in a faraday cage has distinct disadvantages.  I did it for 6 years (in a metal work shop).  You'd be surprised how handy RF can be until it isn't there.  It's not something you couldn't work around.  But it's an added PITA.

For some reason, this reminds me of something that would be in an XKCD comic!

It felt like it at the time, too. 

Always remember to leave your cell phone on the window sill!

All right, Spork, who are you and why are you living my life? :-)

Old (circa 1971) mobile homes with nonstandard additions can also be farraday boxes. Guess where my cell phone is atm? There's only one windowsill with signal, too.

[Spork]

I'll also add: living in a faraday cage has distinct disadvantages.  I did it for 6 years (in a metal work shop).  You'd be surprised how handy RF can be until it isn't there.  It's not something you couldn't work around.  But it's an added PITA.

For some reason, this reminds me of something that would be in an XKCD comic!

It felt like it at the time, too. 

Always remember to leave your cell phone on the window sill!

All right, Spork, who are you and why are you living my life? :-)

Old (circa 1971) mobile homes with nonstandard additions can also be farraday boxes. Guess where my cell phone is atm? There's only one windowsill with signal, too.

haha.

I always hated people that put their phones down and walked around with a blue tooth headset.  ...and then there came the time that this was the ONLY WAY I COULD USE MY PHONE.

We had only 2 windows in that time.  Both had window AC units in them, so as to leave very little usable space.  Then there would be a huge pile of cell phones (hers, mine, visitors, and of course the one driving the internet connection.)