Please diagnose my toliet

[Sibley]

Symptom: periodically, hear water running from the toilet.
Possible 2nd symptom: after toilet is flushed, it runs for quite a while before ceasing.

Background:
Older but modern toilet, 1.6 per flush. I forget if its liter or gallon, but whatever is standard for US toilets. Elger is the brand name. This toilet was abused by the prior owners so anything is possible.
No signs of water damage.
Fill valve and flapper have been replaced at least once. Flapper gets replaced about annually.
Flapper got replaced last weekend, and a few hours later I heard the water again.

[sonofsven]

It's possible the float is getting stuck or it's not adjusted properly.
The water in the tank will rise until it reaches the level of the overflow.
It's also possible that the fill valve and flapper are not functioning properly, even though they're new.
Remove the lid of the tank and you'll be able to see if it's leaking down the overflow

[Sibley]

Water level is currently about 2 inches below the top of the overflow. I have watched it flush, float appears to move freely and there were no leaks down the overflow. Just put dye in the tank (last test was before flapper replacement), will report back in a few hours.

[Cozzmo]

Having been a landlord, I always overhauled all my toilets between tenants if they were there for more than 2 years. (My rental house had four toilets).
Also my own.
I would just replace the valve and the flapper in each.
Once I had to take it apart and do the entire riser.
Really easy. The valve and flappers always go bad if you give it enough time.
I think now though, that both the flapper and the valves are much better than they used to be.
This is because they use silicone instead of rubber now.

[lthenderson]

Symptom: periodically, hear water running from the toilet.
Possible 2nd symptom: after toilet is flushed, it runs for quite a while before ceasing.

Most definitely something is leaking between the tank and the bowl. After checking to make sure the chain holding the flap isn't kinking, rusting out, etc and making sure the lip the flap seals against doesn't have some small amount of debris stuck to it, I just replace the inner works.

For the second symptom, perhaps you have your water infill valve for the toilet throttled down. This directly controls the speed of which your toilet fills from a long time to a very short time.  If the leak of symptom number one is bad enough, this could also increase your fill time, especially if the fill valve is throttled down.

[ChpBstrd]

Do you have high water pressure or does the toilet run as faucets or appliances shut on and off? If so, the pressure might be more than the valve spring can hold back, and little surges in pressure could be allowing water to squirt past. If pressure is too high, a pressure regulator may need to be installed / replaced / adjusted on your main line.

But first, try backing out the little screw on the top of your toilet valve so that it's not constantly pressing down (or up, depending on design) against the valve. If this adjustment is too tight, there's no slack in the system and tiny vibrations or fluctuations could trigger the valve. There should be a tiny bit of wiggle room where the float arm doesn't immediately actuate the valve.

The other thing to try is (1) turn off the water supply, (2) flush, (3) wipe the surface the flapper closes against with a rag or paper towel. See if you wipe off a bunch of alge or debris. This alge or debris could be getting in the way and causing the toilet to leak, even if the flapper is new.

[Sibley]

Report: tiny bit of dye in the bowl after several hours, so yeah, there's a leak. I didn't hear the water running leak in this time period.

"chain holding the flap isn't kinking, rusting out" - chain is new, not kinked, looked ok when I watched it flush
"(1) turn off the water supply, (2) flush, (3) wipe the surface the flapper closes against with a rag or paper towel. See if you wipe off a bunch of alge or debris. This alge or debris could be getting in the way and causing the toilet to leak, even if the flapper is new." - just cleaned that off, will see if it helps. It was slimy.

"But first, try backing out the little screw on the top of your toilet valve so that it's not constantly pressing down (or up, depending on design) against the valve. If this adjustment is too tight, there's no slack in the system and tiny vibrations or fluctuations could trigger the valve. There should be a tiny bit of wiggle room where the float arm doesn't immediately actuate the valve." - I do not understand much of that, but there is a little bit of wiggle room before the float arm moves the flapper. I think we're using different terms and I don't know your set.

Water pressure - as far as I know, it's not excessive. I don't see any of the symptoms of increased pressure, and this is something that I have had to tackle in the house. Toilet does not run if other water is used.

"perhaps you have your water infill valve for the toilet throttled down. This directly controls the speed of which your toilet fills from a long time to a very short time.  If the leak of symptom number one is bad enough, this could also increase your fill time, especially if the fill valve is throttled down." - Valve at the wall (to turn off water) is open fully. Fill valve in the toilet, I haven't messed with that and I wasn't the one who replaced it. It does have an adjustment thingy with +and - on it, but since I don't understand the fill valve in general.....

Will let this sit for a few hours, see how it does.

[aasdfadsf]

Older but modern toilet, 1.6 per flush. I forget if its liter or gallon, but whatever is standard for US toilets.

FWIW, it's definitely gallons. I shudder to think how you move human feces down with only 1.6 liters.

I think it's been said, but a toilet that keeps running and is not obviously ruined is always going to be 1) the flap can't actually cover properly and either it's bad or something is obstructing it, or 2) you've got the float poorly adjusted such that it doesn't cut off the valve when the water level gets high enough. I'm guessing your problem is mostly #1; small amounts of water leak from the tank to the bowl that make the toilet have to add extra water every so often.

[Sibley]

Dye in the bowl again. Gonna get a new flapper and fill valve and replace those. Again. Depending on store hours, may need to wait until after Christmas, because I'm going to the plumbing store where they can help me, not the big box store where I need to know what I'm doing.

Can you tell I'm exasperated with this toilet?

[sonofsven]

If you're going to take the tank off, get a new tank to bowl nut/bolt/washer set and gasket as well. Cheap insurance.
If you decide to replace the whole thing, I have had good luck with Toto toilets in my home builds.

[Sibley]

Flapper and fill valve are replaced, seems to be flushing and filling appropriately. Put dye in the tank. Out of dye now. We'll see how it does.

[sonofsven]

The reason I mentioned removing the tank is that sometimes you need to replace the flush valve as well as the flapper, which can only be done by removing the tank.
The flush valve could have small cracks, causing it to leak, or it could just not seal properly even with a new flapper.

[Sibley]

The reason I mentioned removing the tank is that sometimes you need to replace the flush valve as well as the flapper, which can only be done by removing the tank.
The flush valve could have small cracks, causing it to leak, or it could just not seal properly even with a new flapper.

That isn't something I'm willing to attempt without assistance, and I don't have assistance readily available right now. Plumbing is not my thing.

However, so far the toilet seems to be working properly with the new parts.

[Omy]

This is actually super simple. You just empty the tank of water and unscrew a couple bolts. I'm in my 60s and can do it.

[sonofsven]

This is actually super simple. You just empty the tank of water and unscrew a couple bolts. I'm in my 60s and can do it.

Well, it's easy in theory. In practice you might struggle to hold the large flathead screwdriver on the bolt head inside the tank as you remove the nuts under the tank, or they might be too corroded.
In that case, since they are soft brass you can cut them off.

[Beardog]

This is actually super simple. You just empty the tank of water and unscrew a couple bolts. I'm in my 60s and can do it.

Well, it's easy in theory. In practice you might struggle to hold the large flathead screwdriver on the bolt head inside the tank as you remove the nuts under the tank, or they might be too corroded.
In that case, since they are soft brass you can cut them off.

If you over tighten the bolts, the tank could crack.  If you don't tighten enough, well, you know what might happen!  This is something I want to leave to a professional.

Recently I was faced with a two piece toilet that needed the flapper valve replaced.  I decided to pay a plumber to install a new one piece toilet that doesn't require removing the tank to replace the flush valve rather than pay a plumber to install a new flapper valve in the existing toilet.  It would have been the second time in 5 years that the flapper valve had to be replaced.  It was an older toilet but it was low flow and worked fine and I was sorry to toss it.  But plumbers are expensive!

[sonofsven]

This is actually super simple. You just empty the tank of water and unscrew a couple bolts. I'm in my 60s and can do it.

Well, it's easy in theory. In practice you might struggle to hold the large flathead screwdriver on the bolt head inside the tank as you remove the nuts under the tank, or they might be too corroded.
In that case, since they are soft brass you can cut them off.

If you over tighten the bolts, the tank could crack.  If you don't tighten enough, well, you know what might happen!  This is something I want to leave to a professional.

Recently I was faced with a two piece toilet that needed the flapper valve replaced.  I decided to pay a plumber to install a new one piece toilet that doesn't require removing the tank to replace the flush valve rather than pay a plumber to install a new flapper valve in the existing toilet.  It would have been the second time in 5 years that the flapper valve had to be replaced.  It was an older toilet but it was low flow and worked fine and I was sorry to toss it.  But plumbers are expensive!

This is where I would say that my one piece Toto has worked flawlessly with no parts added for 15 years, but I would never say that for fear of jinxing myself, so I definitely did not say that, plumbing gods.

[nalor511]

Flapper. Easy to test. Turn off the water and see if the tank water level goes down

[crocheted_stache]

Turning off the water at the wall will save water and achieve silence if you can't get replacement parts right away. We've put quarter-turn valves under our toilets, so it's easy to turn them on temporarily for use.

Flappers go out more often than valves.  They crud up with minerals and the rubber degrades with time. They're quick to replace, and they're cheap. Try replacing that first, especially if dye in the tank shows up in the bowl.

The valve is probably working if it's running only when the water level drops. Most mechanisms have a way to adjust the float up and down, so check that if the water level never gets high enough to stop the flow. If it was working fine all last year, this probably isn't the culprit.

I've never taken the tank off to replace valves, but maybe different designs or workflows call for different approaches.

Tank-based cleaning tablets degrade toilet tank parts much faster than tap water alone. If you really want, there's one kind that injects directly into the bowl fill tube rather than make the tank water chemical-laden and blue.

[Sibley]

Well, update. Because it turns out that regardless of whatever else was going on, the toilet desperately needed to be replaced. Likely for the entire time I've lived here. In process of cleaning the bathroom, I smelled sewer gas near the base of the toilet. After swearing, I then called the plumber to arrange for him to come replace it. (I know how but am not strong enough.) Then I bought a new toilet for the plumber to install.

Wasn't home when plumber came, a parent was here for me. Apparently, he went to unbolt the toilet, stopped, and then lifted the toilet up. The entire flange had rotted and the toilet wasn't actually attached to the floor. Somehow, the seal held until recently.

New flange is installed, new toilet is installed, the subfloor apparently wasn't fucked, and hopefully I won't have to worry about this toilet for a long time.

[sonofsven]

So the toilet was actually ok, lol. Glad you got it fixed before it destroyed the subfloor.

[Sibley]

Oh no, that toilet was still cursed. I had to replace far too many flappers on that thing. However, the drain issue I won't blame on the toilet. I've got a new Gerber, so far it's working very nicely.

[lthenderson]

A toilet is completely porcelain and unless that was broke or cracked, the toilet was completely functional and could work for many years. It is the parts, seals and flanges that can and do go bad periodically.

[Just Joe]

Flapper. Easy to test. Turn off the water and see if the tank water level goes down

Additional idea: add a few drops of food coloring to the tank water. Green or blue. If you see that color in the bowl - your flapper is leaking.