Author Topic: Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation  (Read 8601 times)

RecoveringGearhead

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Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation
« on: February 20, 2015, 10:37:27 AM »
Ive been in this house for 5 years.  When we purchased it, our inspection found mold in the attic.  The previous owners had someone come in and remove it, seal the top floor ceiling openings and reinsulate the attic as part of the negotiations.  I strongly believe now that we shouldve walked away, but it is what it is now.   

There has been a sheetrock crack in the living room since we moved in.  It obviously hasnt made it to the top of the priority list yet. 

I live in Maine.  Last week we had a "warm" day (in the upper 20s).  The next day that sheetrock crack started falling apart and is mushy.  Some of the sheetrock falling apart is gray, indicating mold.  There have obviously been repairs in this area before that were not done right, which is what I think caused the crack.  I got up in the attic and discovered alot of frost in the area above that spot.  Picture attached of one of the rafter sections.  The frost/mold is in 3 or 4 rafter sections.  The crack is on the 1st floor...  Our closet above the crack, below the frost is also spongy, carpet is damp, etc...  I taped it up enough to contain anything that might fall into my son's reach.  My guess is that the entire wall, top and bottom floor is frosty/moldy.

Since then Ive been doing some reading on attic frost.  It appears normally be caused by a ventilation problem or air leak from the living area.  My guess is that this crack was enough of an air leak to cause this.  I can see the decking in the attic that has snow/ice on it and there is no sign of leakage.  Looking back, it was probably this crack that started the whole thing for the previous owners. 

The house is an odd design.  Exterior picture attached.  It is a modified Gambrel/A-frame.  The vertical roof is also my exterior wall.  There are no soffit vents or ridge vent, only gable vents.  There is some frost on the gable walls, but Im told that is fairly normal and its no where near as much as what is above the crack.

I have not been able to get anyone out to look at it yet.  Partly due to people not returning my calls.  My insurance agent isnt even returning my calls.  uggh.  Im taking this as an opportunity to stand back, evaluate and try to come out as cheap as possible.  I havent filed a claim yet as my neighbor was saying to make sure I want to file it before calling them as it will be a mark against me whether I file a claim or not...

- Do you think my insurance will cover it?  If they do, Im looking at getting someone out to take care of all of it.  If not, Im doing this myself.
- If I do this myself, should I wait until its warmer?  I think its going to frost even worse if I take the sheetrock down.  Its below 0 every night.
- Anyone think my evaluation of what is happening is far-fetched?  There is a frozen pattern on the vertical roof that matches the crack.  There is an ice dam above where I saw frost, but no sign of actual leakage, so I dont think its a roof leak.
- Any suggestions on things I should be looking at doing while in there to prevent any future problems? 


The day after noticing this was the day I sold my toy car to put our hair out.  House repairs is not why I was selling it.  But I suppose its better now than 2 months ago when we were +10k in credit card debt and 2 car payments.  Weve been on a selling spree the last couple months, as well as all my christmas bonus went to the credit cards.  Our tax refund went straight to paying off one car.  And selling the toy car was enough to pay off all of our other car loan.  Ive decided to slide $2500 off to the side for the house, then put all the rest into the loan, leaving around 4k that should be gone by the end of the year.  If I need to dig deeper for money, I do have the cushion of all this available credit (some is 0% for almost a year), but Im really trying not to do that.  Opinions on this part of the deal would also be appreciated.  I have not made that large payment yet.

thank you for any insight, suggestions or comments.

Charlie

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Re: Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2015, 11:15:54 AM »
I'm not an expert, but here's what I do know.

- Call your insurance company to find out if they'll cover it. Calling to find out will not count against you in any way. If you file a claim, you'll lose whatever discount you currently have for not filing a claim in x many years. That clock will reset to 0. It's typically a small discount anyway.

-Before you start fixing anything, you need to figure out why there is a crack in the drywall. Often drywall cracks point to structural issues. There's no point in putting up new drywall if it's just going to crack again.

- You absolutely need to stop warm air from the house from leaking into the attic. Same reason as above.

- Then you need to cut out and replace all drywall that got wet/frosty. The carpet likely also needs to go.

- Waiting to repair any of this is a fools game. Wet wood and drywall are like cancer. If you don't cut it out it just grows and gets worse. For this reason, if you don't have the cash on hand, it's worth going into debt to get this taken care of. Just be sure to get the best possible interest rate and pay it off ASAP.

RecoveringGearhead

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Re: Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2015, 01:03:47 PM »
Now that the crack has fallen apart, I can see a very crappy patch job.  Like...sheetrock on both sides of the stud were not attached and a 1.5" strip was placed on the stud to fill the gap and it was mudded over.  There is a clean cut on both sides of the stud.  The area that this is in gets "nudged" and bumped all the time because its at the bottom of our stairs.  Im not surprised it failed.  There is no sign of basement walls cracking and no sign of anything odd on the outside of the house. 

My 1st 2 preferences for contractors are not returning my calls.  Im hunting for more references.  I dont want to open the phone book and get the 1st guy that answers.  But I know I need to get someone knowledgeable in asap to at least look at it and give me an expert opinion.  Most people Ive talked to dont think anyone will touch it until its warmer out.  But I at least want that opinion. 

The silver lining is that we are finally getting stuff done on the house and Ive never been financially able to do it like we are now.  I know my $2500 off to the side wont cover much over our deductible.  But we were waaay in the RED and were that way for a very long time.  So getting a small loan or putting it on a 0% card isnt the worst thing at this point.  "Unfortunately" there is a small list of things that will also happen while we are working on it.  Secondary to all this is replacing the rest of the windows in the house and finally making it more efficient. 

Life is funny.  We were literally looking at being able to start doubling mortgage payments this summer.  1 day before the final financial hurdle, this came to light.  But I can say that I know we'll get back to that point soon.


Erik v

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Re: Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2015, 01:14:16 PM »
From the amount of moisture you describe, and the appearance of at least moderate exterior ventilation in the attic space, it is my opinion that there is water coming through the roof and leaking into the space.  I do not believe condensation turning into frost and then melting could possibly be the cause.  From the amount of damage/water, it sounds like a mutiple gallon event, and I just don't think that attic frost would cause that kind of damage.

That being said, when it gets cold again, if you go back in the attic and see frost blooming from the gaps into your living space, well then I might change my opinion. 

You need to isolate and repair the source of that moisture before you bother with the drywall at all.

As far as the drywall itself, your description of gray could mean just that the drywall is wet (a consistent medium color gray) or in fact moldy (striated, w/ black or almost black mixed in with the gray).  The presence of mold almost guarantees a leaky roof as being the cause, as it would be unlikely for mold to grow on material impacted by melted attic frost, simply due to the adverse conditions.  Mold does much better at 60-80 degrees.

My guess is that this is related to some sort of ice dam, with an initial ice barrier on outisde of the roof, then snow/ice continuing to build up, and metling slightly and wicking beneath the shingles.  It then ultimately melts into your attic, then drains down the wall with some being absorbed into the carpet and the rest leaking down into the first floor wall.

TrMama is correct that you do want to address this as soon as practical, but practical is the key here.  I think you can wait for consistent 50 degree days (normally, I would say mid-March, but good gravy with what we've been having here in Pittsburgh, maybe June is more appropriate!).  It is not emergency-level, and can wait a few weeks.  But you need to isloate where that leak is coming from.  If it is ice damming, there is a significant possibility that this siutation only appears every few years.  This is especially likely given that you have lived in the house for 5 years with no issue.

If you do the renovation yourself (I recommend this), consider using materials with higher moisture resistance.  Especially if you can't isolate the source of the leak.  The closet, for example, I would be tempted rip out the drywall that was adjacent to the wall/steeply sloped roof (if I am visualizing the layout  correctly), doing it with care so that I could see the water flow patterns on the back.  And once I figured out where the moisture was coming from and mitigated it, just replace it with some cedar planking.  Once that paper on the drywall gets wet, that's when you are in a world of hurt. Planking on studs is much more resistant to leaks than drywall.  That stuff just never gets dry.

It doesn't sound like there is a ton of work to be done here.  What I would be particularly wary of is a contrator that says they have isolated the leak, replaces the drywall and carpeting, and then in 5 years, the unusual circumstances that created this year's events repeat.   That being said, it can't hurt to get a roofer out to take a look and give you a quote - they should have plenty of experience with this sort of thing.

I do recall reading an article several years back (WSJ, if I recall) that insurance companies would log inquiries by their customers and adjust premiums accordingly.  Particularly moisture-related.  Tread with care.  Whether you get the insurance company involved will also depend on your deductible. 

Good luck.

RecoveringGearhead

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Re: Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2015, 01:36:13 PM »
There is an ice dam above this.  And the picture in the attic is the decking below that ice dam and I dont see actual frozen ice.  I think the ice dam is from the warm air, as well as the frozen line on the outside of that roof/wall.  There hasnt been anything other than a drip or damp carpet as far as visible water.  But your opinion is the main reason I want someone else to look at it.   

Erik v

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Re: Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2015, 02:02:06 PM »
I am not 100% sure of how these ice dams work, but my guess is that when it is 10 degrees and sunny outside, the ice melts, wicks under your shingle, and then when it intrudes into the attic, it freezes back up again.  That space, being in the shade and adequately insulated, is much colder than the roof in those conditions.  Over the course of the winter, with those conditions, you build up a nice stalactite/stalagmite of ice.  Then when things warm up to close to the thaw temperature (into the 20s, as you indicated), all of that ice melts and flows into your house. 

During years when the winter is moderate, and there is an ice dam, the ice in the attic likely does not build up to being large enough to be more than a quart or two of water.  When it melts, it just flows down the drywall and gets absorbed by the carpet and then just evaporates without causing any damage to your structure.  It took the "special" conditions of this winter for the build up to be significant enough to create the damage, and has clearly also occurred in years past - before you owned the house, given your description of the repair job on the first floor.

I'd be curious to know what the prognosis is when you have someone else look at it.

paddedhat

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Re: Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2015, 03:00:00 PM »
From your description, so far, I would say that you are suffering from some serious design flaws that tend to rear their ugly little heads when the weather is this extreme. You basically have a two story home with tilted vertical walls trying to be a roof and a wall structure. If they were properly vented from top to bottom, they would present a serous fire hazard, as they would create a two story chimney, much like the old fashioned "balloon framed" homes of a century ago, that can burn to the ground in minutes. You are most likely suffering from an extreme version of ice damming, and chances are this happens, to some degree, every winter. You may want to go beyond the contractor level of experience in this case, and see if you can find an expert in the field. Maybe start on a few construction forums and see if you can find a really sharp engineer, or other authority on the subject. You may have to try something unorthodox in your case, like removing the sheetrock and going with a totally sealed high density foam spray in the wall cavities and ceiling. Without being in the attic, it can be pretty tough to figure out if the situation can be resolved with proper soffit and ridge venting, and if there I adequate space to properly insulate the structure where the roof meets the walls. A low pitch, no ridge or soffit ventilation and gable end vents is about as bad as it gets, from a ventilation standpoint. Good luck, it's a tough one.

RecoveringGearhead

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Re: Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2015, 11:33:35 AM »
Had a couple guys out today to look at it.  They both think fixing the obvious stuff will be easy and that the mold that is visible in the attic isn't that bad.  But they are suggesting a complete sheetrock removal of both vertical roof/walls, make it ventilate by adding soffit vents and the styrofoam batting, reinsulate, re-sheetrock and it shouldn't happen again.  Sounds stupid expensive...  The main guy is going to look into some solutions for a proper soffit vent that will work with the improper design and get back to me. 

Neither felt like insurance was going to cover the permanent fix.  Maybe be able to get them to pay for the sheetrock damage and mold mitigation...  We are going to have to go back into debt to get this fixed...uggh.  I feel like the majority of this might be more than I have the time or skill for.  Its too bad these guys are car guys or else Id offer some automotive work as trade. ha!

paddedhat

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Re: Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2015, 12:44:22 PM »
I mentioned it previously, but it's important enough to do so again. You essentially have exterior walls that are shingled. They create a nearly vertical surface that is two stories tall. IF you fully ventilate them, you will create a serious code violation, and life safety issue. Any fire, from an electrical outlet, or whatever, will have access to a vertical chase, and the flames will be in the attic within seconds. Homes used to be built like this (Google "balloon framing fire hazards") until it became evident that they are extremely hazardous to the occupants, in a fire. Codes require that any wall cavity be fire blocked, typically with 2" material, at least every story, vertically.

Nearly every year we have a vacation home in my community that burns to the ground within minutes, due to a lack of fire blocking. Typically they are 1970s - 1980s built, and the fire starts when the zero clearance wood burning fireplace fails. "Back in the day" nobody paid attention to the requirement for adequate fire blocking, at every floor level, in the chimney chase. This allows the fire to quickly enter the attic. Typically, the fire co. rolls in to the scene with fire shooting out of the gable vent like a giant blow torch. If the company is sure that there are no occupants inside, they fight it from the exterior, and it's usually a smoldering pile, a few feet high, less than 30 minutes after it started. If you decide to demo the sheetrock and fully baffle tray the outside walls, that's the kind of death trap you are building.

There are several issues that needs to be addressed to solve your problem, and the majority are in the attic, where continuous soffit and ridge venting, and proper insulation levels will resolve the majority, if not all of your problem. Pulling the rock to assess conditions in the walls, and properly fire block and insulate to the highest possible standards is a great, but costly step. Adding ventilation to the walls, is not only extremely dangerous, but heading in the wrong direction. 

RecoveringGearhead

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Re: Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2015, 08:56:00 AM »
Thank you for stressing your point.  I did bring the idea of a fire hazard up and these guys basically acted like there was no other way to solve this problem.  And for the record...I dont agree with what they were planning and I do not plan to have them come back to the house. 

Ive been doing some reading about hot/non-vented roofs.  It looks like closed cell foam directly up against the sheathing is my safest bet.  And it looks like I can insulate further if I want, but it not necessary if there is enough foam.  The thing Im not sure about is the cost of foam.  I expect it to be much more expensive than fiberglass. 

I was directed to the GBA site from a link in the other mold/roof thread here and decided to post my situation there. 

He posted this link as a reference.
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/how-build-insulated-cathedral-ceiling

The contractors said they wouldnt be able to do anything for a few weeks anyways because of the weather.  And advised me to just get all of the snow and ice off as much as I could.  Thats how I spent the majority of the weekend.  Yesterday's warm snap of 35 deg has the sheetrock in worse shape, but its still hanging on.

I do work in an engineering firm, mostly EEs.  But there are a couple structural/civil guys here.  Ive spoken with them about it and the general consensus is that I need to spray foam it.  By the time I re-insulate and add proper soffit venting, Im not saving much over foam anyways, regardless of whether one way is right or wrong. 

One of the guys has previous contractor experience, he's really interested in helping out and is coming by to look at it.  Im also leaning towards doing what I can myself and contracting out the rest, instead of just having a GC do all of it.

Im also looking into refinancing our 5.25% mortgage with some sort of construction loan added to do all of this.  We were going to re-fi soon anyways after getting below 80% loan-to-value and are almost there.  If this is a possibility, we may do an addition and fix that side of the house with a proper ventilation method, but I need to get a structural guy on board to make sure what I want can physically happen and make sure the different ventilation methods dont work against each other.

Im going to talk to insurance today and get someone out asap.  And start looking into energy rebates and see what I qualify for.  Then start planning and talking to the bank. 

Jack

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Re: Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2015, 09:15:19 AM »
I'm not an expert, but I agree with the "skip the ventilation; spray foam it all" plan. I don't think it's possible to create a vented soffit on a gambrel roof in a way that makes any architectural sense anyway (let alone on your weird gambrel-A-frame hybrid).

As for the construction loan, I think the way it works is that you get it first, then refinance the existing mortgage and the construction loan into a new mortgage when you're done.

Or, since your renovations are really "repairs" that won't change the after-renovation house value much (and presumably you're not trying to use the after-renovation value to qualify... right?), you could just do a cash-out refi.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 09:16:58 AM by Jack »

RecoveringGearhead

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Re: Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2015, 09:33:54 AM »
We may end up doing an addition while we are at this IF I can roll it into a re-fi.  So the end value would go up.  Ive read about 203k loans.  Not sure if that applies in my situation.  But if not, we would go a more conventional route. 

I plan to approach the insurance company with our current water damage issues and some shingle problems not related to this damage.  Im not sure whether water entry from an ice dam warrants a new roof or not, but Im going to see what they say.  Its my understanding that I would be able to use the money from them for 1:1 replacement or roll it into the addition. 

If we decide not to do the addition, Im torn whether to permanently fix the house design by re-insulating or to fix the known damage and sell it. 

Im excited and nervous about all of this if we go all out.

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2015, 10:03:35 AM »
I don't think there's fixing that house design.

paddedhat

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Re: Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2015, 08:05:56 PM »
It's a relief to see that you are smart and curious enough to go beyond whatever a contractor, or two recommend. As a retired contractor, this type of situation use to drive me fuckin' nuts. I would meet with a homeowner, explain, in depth, what the best practice was for resolving an issue, and then watch them hem, and haw, only to admit that the two chucklenuts who were there before me had a cheaper way to get it done. The fact that the first guy was as close to a career criminal as it get, or the second one invests most of his profits at the bar, often mean nothing to the potential customer, it's all to often a fixation on the low bid.

One of my favorites was a really good customer. A guy that I had done a considerable amount of renovations for, including new hardwood floors through out his two story home, new huge decks, etc...... At some point you would think he would of been smart enough to trust me ,but noooooo. He tells me that he is hiring a local paving contractor to pave his complex, and trouble plagued driveway. I reminded him that we had discussed the job, and I strongly recommended that he stay away from the one he selected, since they are clowns.  He then said that the two other bids were 50% higher. I asked which one was the bid that included regarding the water away from the house, and installing drainage to properly drain the entire front yard? He told me both of the more expensive guys claimed that it was necessary, and priced it into their bids.  I told him he should reconsider, since this was a dangerous place to cut corners. He went with the low bid. During the first spring rain he had 2 ft. of water in the crawl space, but didn't know it until the first floor hardwood buckled, the crawl was full of mold,  the concrete front apron at the garage doors collapsed into the ground, and had to be jackhammered out and replaced. Tough lesson to learn.

If you decide to do a hot roof, I would wait until you are seeing consistent daytime temps. of 45-50* in the attic, and throw a dehumidifier and a few box fans up there. By blocking the gable end vents off temporarily, and routing a drain hose to a tub or sink, you should be able to remove huge amounts of moisture from the roof structure, which will eliminate mold growth, and remove the concern about sealing wet framing and sheathing inside of the foam. This is were a $20 remote read, indoor/outdoor temp. and humidity gauge is a great thing to have. Hang the remote sensor from a rafter in the attic, and you can monitor your progress in drying the space out.

I don't know about Maine, but some states are real tough on homeowners who file damage claims. The address ends up with a permanent file noting flood, fire, water, structural or mold damage and remediation, which it is disclosed at settlement. I have a friend who lives in CA. and has a few rentals. He will eat a pretty steep amount of damage (up to 10-15K or so) in order to avoid further damaging the resale potential of the property caused by filing a claim. I would want to have an off the record conversation with my agent before I would even think of filing a claim.  If they are unlikely to cover the ice damming, you may be hurting yourself just contacting them to open a review.

RecoveringGearhead

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Re: Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2015, 11:58:36 AM »
My agent still isnt returning calls.  As soon as this is over, Im shopping for another insurance company.

I did start the claim process yesterday through the insurance's 1-800 number.  They are supposed to be sending someone out soon to look it over. 

The state's website only says that known defects have to be disclosed.  So I dont think that I would have to disclose previous issues.  And most of the folks Ive talked to about it agree. 

Im still having a very hard time getting other contractors to look at it.  I have this voice in the back of my head that says that Im not experienced enough and dont have the time to contract it myself.  But I get the feeling that Im in a long line with the winter we've had. 

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2015, 04:46:30 AM »
If the form you have to sign on selling this house is similar to the one I signed in Pennsylvania last year, you'll have to disclose what's already happened anyways. Personally I am a bad liar so I always go with honesty.

RecoveringGearhead

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Re: Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2015, 07:35:28 AM »
I did get confirmation yesterday from a realtor that I would have to disclose it.  Ive already contacted the insurance so I guess whats done is done.  With that in mind, I think just fixing the damage and selling it will not be the best choice unless Im okay with taking the loss right now.  I have no clue how much Id have to eat in that scenario.

If the damage gets fixed and I can prove that measures were taken to prevent it from happening again, I see it easier to sell, but the value doesnt really go up from where it is now (or was, I should say).  The cost to prevent future occurrences would obviously come out of my pocket.

If I can roll a construction loan into the mortgage to put an addition on the house, we are much more likely to stay.  And the value of the house should go up.  Id be okay with a slightly higher mortgage payment if the house was more efficient and more roomy.  The bulk of the addition would be a kitchen.  Ours is tiny. 

Im currently waiting on someone from the insurance company to come look at it.  And also trying to get more opinions on how to keep it from happening again.

I fully admit that I am completely wandering in the dark here.  But I realize that Im in a spot where I can be taken advantage of and lose a crapton of money in the process if I dont work this right.  Thats why Im here. 

I am starting to admit that if it wasnt for MMM and my family making big changes several months ago, we be in a MUCH MUCH worse situation.  Last year at this time we owed 30k on car loans, 12k in credit cards and were struggling to get by check to check.  I am looking at forgoing the payoff of the last car loan until christmas bonus or next tax season because of this, but it could be much worse.

FLBiker

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Re: Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2015, 10:19:50 AM »
I am starting to admit that if it wasnt for MMM and my family making big changes several months ago, we be in a MUCH MUCH worse situation.  Last year at this time we owed 30k on car loans, 12k in credit cards and were struggling to get by check to check.  I am looking at forgoing the payoff of the last car loan until christmas bonus or next tax season because of this, but it could be much worse.

I really admire your ability to stay somewhat positive with this stuff.  I am not nearly as good at that.

It's great to be grateful that you have the money to cover this, rather than to be angry (like I usually am) that I need to spend it.  Thanks!

RecoveringGearhead

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Re: Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2015, 05:42:53 AM »
Oh there's been lots of angry moments!  This morning has been filled with the sinking gut feeling and I have absolutely no clue which path to pick.

Does anyone think that fixing the damage, only gutting the side having the issue, spray foam, re-sheetrock and leave the other side as-is for now should be a viable option?  The side having the issue is mostly just clean straight walls.  There are 2 closets up stairs that would be affected, but I wouldnt have to get into any appliance removal like I would on the other side.  The whole house wouldnt get permanently "fixed", but it may buy me some time to figure out whether to sink more money into the place.  Most of this work I can do myself.  Probably just hire someone to do the foam and finish the sheetrock. 

paddedhat

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Re: Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2015, 06:38:27 AM »
How about this viewpoint.
#1 Eliminate the source of the issue. That being ice damming from a poorly designed roof.  Wait until it warms up, remove all the attic insulation, dry the area, kill the mold with bleach, and spray foam it, creating a hot roof system. Most of this is DIY, except for contracting with a spray foam contractor.

#2 Open up the areas of wall sheetrock that are damaged. Remove all damaged insulation and fiberglass insulation, treat any mold, allow the area to dry, and reassemble with the same materials you removed.

Once the roof issue is cured, there may be no compelling reason to go full bore into demoing the  exterior walls. If the house has performed well in most temperatures that are warmer than the extremes your are is currently suffering from, you should be just fine with a patch and replace program on the side walls.

RecoveringGearhead

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Re: Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2015, 07:55:27 AM »
Just to make sure we are on the same page and what is in my head is correct...I would spray foam the entire wall/roof on that side, not the attic.  And I would replace all the sheetrock in the process.

Your response leads me to believe you are suggesting saving the sheetrock and not foaming the wall/roof. 

Im picturing the entire vertical roof/wall is foamed up to the attic.  And the attic itself would not be a hot roof.  Am I missing something?

Just was talking to a guy here that has used the foam from Home Depot and said it wasnt that hard to DIY.  Im going to look into it, but I think Im looking at contracting that part out.  And maybe the sheetrock finishing, as Ive seen what I can do with a putty knife and mud.   

paddedhat

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Re: Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2015, 06:29:40 PM »
No, we are not on the same page here. Chances are that you house was framed very similar to a traditional two story, with the exception being that the walls are tilted. If it was, you have a very typical ice damming scenario, and related damage. The difference is that you cannot easily remedy the situation, as you have no real ability to provide adequate soffit ventilation. Therefore, if I assume correctly, you can view the attic and walls as two separate issues. The Attic needs to be turned into a properly sealed hot roof. and the walls need to be repaired.

That said, unless you go up there, pull the insulation out of the way, and post a few well lit pics. of the outer edges of the attic, above the exterior walls, I'm just taking an educated guess.

Bottom line is that I think you are going to be able to correct this mess, permanently, without dropping tens of thousands on it. 

kendallf

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Re: Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2015, 06:42:58 PM »
Don't go nuts.  I read your other thread and it sounds like you have enough going on where you don't need to sink big bucks into the house right now.  Nothing here is an emergency that compels you to gut your house or, worse yet, go into debt more for an addition.

You've gotten some good advice above from paddedhat.

RecoveringGearhead

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Re: Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2015, 03:19:48 AM »
10-4 on all accounts.  I need to do some more reading about hot roofs and investigate how this thing is designed.  I was assuming it was like a balloon framed house and open all the way to the attic as I can see what I think is the upstairs wall fiberglass insulation from the attic and I don't think there is a top plate.  But I do need to do some more investigation.

Ahhh..found some pics from when they were replacing the attic insulation before we bought it.  pics attached.  Please let me know what you think.

Thank you guys for input and encouragement.  Actually slept last night and I have a feeling I can pay for all of this with cash and get back on track afterwards. 

paddedhat

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Re: Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2015, 11:59:39 AM »
Well, thanks for the pic. The situation could be better, but it isn't anything you can't handle, and it won't cost a bundle.

Your rather unusual house is balloon framed. It appears to me that the rafter tails have a "plumb" cut that matches the slope of the vertical walls, and butts tight to the roof sheathing. They also appear to be sitting on top of each individual wall stud. The ceiling joists are nailed to the sides of the rafters and not only support the ceiling, but keep the rafters from spreading and the ridge from sagging.  The strapping across the bottom of the ceiling joists is a local custom, prior to installing sheetrock.

Your mission is to block and seal the top of each stud bay. That being the open cavity where you can see the top of each batt of foil faced wall insulation. There are two goals here. First, is to stop the flow of heated air up each cavity, which has been a huge factor in creating the ice damming issues in the first place.  Second is to provide a fire rated closure to contain any fire spread in an individual stud bay.  It's a pretty simple process. First you need a sheet of 5/8 inch sheetrock. Now you are going to be cutting small pieces, roughly 14-1/2" X  8"  or so, and installing them between each pair of rafters. Try to individually tailor each piece so that it fits within an 1/8th of an inch or so, to every surface. The strapping will be pretty handy, since you can cut each block a few inches wide, and secure it to the strap with two or three 1-5/8" sheetrock screws. Each piece will be just attached on one side and cantilever over the opening. Now the entire piece needs to be caulked and sealed. This gets done with a fire rated caulk. This is critical, and no place to be skipping a few bucks and using $1.99 a tube painter's caulk. Fire caulk is red, and handles a lot like gritty latex caulk. It expands and seals tighter when exposed to fire.  This is not an application where anybody grades for neatness. Just put a thick bead on every edge and tool it in with your fingers. In the event that you end up with a poor fit, or a larger opening to seal, there are cans of fire rated spray foam that also work great. The caulk is roughly $8-9 a tube, and the spray foam is roughly the same. If you can't find it locally, it's available from Amazon.

Now it's time to dry the attic out, throw all the old insulation away, and spray a nice, thick coat of high density foam on the roof sheathing and sidewalls of the attic. IMHO, this is the place where you need the pros. My contractor does the work for about the same price per board foot as the two part kits you can buy, but he shows up with a truck full of tens of thousands worth of specialized gear, and he knows how to do it right.

I guarantee that after all this work, next winter will feel like living in a new house, and your heat bills will drop nearly in half.

RecoveringGearhead

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Re: Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2015, 12:11:18 PM »
Thank you!

2 questions:
1.  What sort of insulation should I put in the walls?  Your responses are making it seem like Im putting fiberglass back in there.  I thought I was foaming the walls all along.

2.  If I turn the attic roof into a hot roof, what do I do with the gable vents? 

paddedhat

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Re: Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2015, 03:11:59 PM »
At this point I would view the walls as separate issue from the attic. Remove as little sheetrock as possible to properly repair the damaged areas, and reinstall fiberglass insulation where needed. Assuming that you are dealing with a relatively small proportion of damaged sheetrock on the exterior walls only, you probably want to avoid going hog wild with tearing sheetrock off and spray foaming. It would be extremely expensive, and disruptive, assuming you were planning on occupying the place during repairs.

You can probably seal the back of the gable vents with something like 1/2" plywood. Cut it to fit the shape and screw it to the back side. Once the plywood covers are foamed in place, they aren't going anywhere.

McChee

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Re: Looking for advice on sheetrock damage/mold remediation
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2015, 07:18:10 PM »
Mold needs moisture to grow.  Identifying the source of moister should be a top priority, or repairing the damage will be a band-aid only.

First off, you need to make sure sure there is enough air flow through the attic space (soffits combined with off-ridge vents) to remove moisture from the air in the attic.

Second, you do need to make sure you don't have water intrusion from the roof or plumbing, etc. that may run past the area.

Thirdly (maybe firstly), mold is one area i don't recommend insourcing.  I recommend hiring a qualified remediation specialist to at least identify the proper course of action and treat the hold.  Buttoning up the rest in terms of drywall and roof ventilation you can easily do yourself.  Most mold isn't particularly harmful (you're breating mold spores every day, everywhere you go).  Unfortunately, you can't just look at it and know.  That's where the remediation specialist comes into play.