Plumbing diagnosis

[dragoncar]

Hi all, merry chrismas, happy holidays, and squeaky cheese

I have just developed a plumbing problem and couldn't find the answer with google so I come to you, mustachian peoples, for your help

The problem is thus:  my kitchen faucet works fine on cold water.  When I turn it to hot water, the flow slows to maybe 50% of normal.  If I turn it back to cold, it STAYS at 50%.  If I turn if off and go away, when I come back the cold water works fine again.

No other faucets have this problem, so I ruled out a water heater or building pressure problem. 

I surmise that there is some kind of debris on the hot water line.  Does this make sense? ? I took apart the faucet head and it didn't help.

I tried turning off the hot water stop valve and noticed that it doesn't really work.  I can turn it a few turns clockwise and it slows the water but not entirely.  Contrast with my cold water stop that turns 90 degrees and won't turn anymore, completely stopping the water.

When I opened the hot water valve, black gunk came out.

Is it a problem with the hot water valve?  Needs to be replaced? 

I'm guessing I have to at least take it off and try to bleed the hot water line for debris, but this might be over my head if I have to desolder it.

What do you guys think?  Just call a plumber?

[alberteh]

Pictures would help, but it sounds like the hot side valve has decomposed rubber washers which then clogged something somewhere in the faucet.

Valve replacement and then start on the faucet to see where the stuff is clogging the faucet. Easy repair if you're handy. If you're not find a good plumber. Depending on age of faucet might be cheaper to just replace with new.

[dragoncar]

Thanks I'm not sure how pictures would help Dan you tell me why?  It sounds like you are right about rubber bits and I'd guess it's wherever the hot and cold tubes meet (since it affects cold after I turn it from hot and then I can only assume it floats back down over time).


Biggest possible problem is my dishwasher is connected to that hot water line too.  If it get clogged that will extra suck.  But how can I tell if it's clogged?

I'm moderately handy, but how hard is this job really?  If it's like turn off water main, bleed pressure, saw off valve and push shark bite replacement, I can do that.  I recently installed a reverse osmosis system.  But if it's like copper soldering should I still try?  I've done electronic and stained glass soldering but nothing with flame.

[Goldielocks]

May be a failing hot water tank.  We had a disinigrating dip tube, that was slowiy giving up flakes of material, (shorter too), that would clog things, then break down mechanically in the lines after a while (the bits were very friable) and it would operate.
  Took a few months for the hot water service to noticely decrease (shorter time before water turned cold)

Try taking of the very end aerator / strainer off your tap.  Do you see debris there?  That is your clue.

Ours looked white (white dip tube), and we thought it was just hard water scale or something, but it wasn't.

http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/Troubleshooting/Tanklets/water-heater-dip-tubes.html  Read the third one "Darn Dip tube fragments"

[sokoloff]

I would repair or replace the hot water shutoff with a new quarter-turn shutoff. I like sweated copper over shark bites for this. That is a shutoff the main or shutoff the hot tank at least, drain down, and solder to replace. Repair is replacing the rubber washer, if serviceable.

Then, you can replace the faucet as a local job. That's not hard either, just fiddly. Prior to replacing, I'd try taking apart and flushing, but sounds like you already did.

[dragoncar]

May be a failing hot water tank.  We had a disinigrating dip tube, that was slowiy giving up flakes of material, (shorter too), that would clog things, then break down mechanically in the lines after a while (the bits were very friable) and it would operate.
  Took a few months for the hot water service to noticely decrease (shorter time before water turned cold)

Try taking of the very end aerator / strainer off your tap.  Do you see debris there?  That is your clue.

Ours looked white (white dip tube), and we thought it was just hard water scale or something, but it wasn't.

http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/Troubleshooting/Tanklets/water-heater-dip-tubes.html  Read the third one "Darn Dip tube fragments"

A few months ago, I drained my hot water tank for another reason and it was extremely clean.  Also, nothing at the aerator.

I would repair or replace the hot water shutoff with a new quarter-turn shutoff. I like sweated copper over shark bites for this. That is a shutoff the main or shutoff the hot tank at least, drain down, and solder to replace. Repair is replacing the rubber washer, if serviceable.

Then, you can replace the faucet as a local job. That's not hard either, just fiddly. Prior to replacing, I'd try taking apart and flushing, but sounds like you already did.

Ok, it sounds like I gotta do this.  I didn't think to just turn off the hot water, so thanks for that tip.  I guess I'll look at some youtube to figure out how to remove and sweat a new one. 

Anyone have recommendations for good angle stop brands?  When I lived in a condo, we had so many failing stops that the HOA coordinated replacement for every unit.

I paid like $250 to a plumber to replace 5 angle stops, which sounded like a good deal because they were coordinating with the building water shutoff and I wasn't sure I could do it within the shutoff window (if I did it outside the window, I'd have to pay the building for the water shutoff).

If I'm replacing it, I want a quality part.

P.S. i don't really want to replace the faucet since it's kinda expensive looking.  Is there a reason reverse flushing is unlikely to work?

[sokoloff]

I like Brasscraft or Watts. Home Depot carries Brasscraft and I've found them to be just fine. I also buy a fair bit of plumbing supplies from supplyhouse.com (formerly pexsupply.com). Where I am, I get supplyhouse orders next day by ground.

As for reverse flushing not working, I read that you already took the faucet apart without effect, so I assumed you'd given up on that. No reason to not try again if there's more in-depth reverse flushing you can do.

Also, if the hot shutoff is serviceable, I'd try replacing the washer in the shutoff. That is much less effort than sweating the old one off (which is the hard part) and a new one on (which is relatively straightforward). If the old washer has disintegrated, that might be what's blocking up the faucet valve downstream, in which case, reverse flushing might help.

[dragoncar]

I like Brasscraft or Watts. Home Depot carries Brasscraft and I've found them to be just fine. I also buy a fair bit of plumbing supplies from supplyhouse.com (formerly pexsupply.com). Where I am, I get supplyhouse orders next day by ground.

As for reverse flushing not working, I read that you already took the faucet apart without effect, so I assumed you'd given up on that. No reason to not try again if there's more in-depth reverse flushing you can do.

Ok, thanks.  I toook the aerator apart, but haven't tried flushing the water in the reverse direction yet.

I figure I'll need to replace the stop valve eventually anyways, but will try to salvage the faucet if possible

[sokoloff]

My edit crossed with your posting, so please be sure to see the last paragraphed that I added as an edit.

[dragoncar]

My edit crossed with your posting, so please be sure to see the last paragraphed that I added as an edit.

Cool thanks all

[zolotiyeruki]

One possibility I haven't seen discussed:  something in the hot water supply line leading into the faucet itself, or some debris in the faucet cartridge.

Before cutting up plumbing lines and busting out the torch to put in a new valve, I'd first check out the faucet.  They're typically made so that it's easy to remove and replace the cartridge, and once you pull that out, it should be pretty easy to tell if there's debris or failing rubber in it.

[dragoncar]

One possibility I haven't seen discussed:  something in the hot water supply line leading into the faucet itself, or some debris in the faucet cartridge.

Before cutting up plumbing lines and busting out the torch to put in a new valve, I'd first check out the faucet.  They're typically made so that it's easy to remove and replace the cartridge, and once you pull that out, it should be pretty easy to tell if there's debris or failing rubber in it.

I'll do this first.  The problem seems to be intermittent so I'm not hurrying and have house guests right now so I don't want to shut off the hot water and then get stuck with an overnight repair.  As mentioned, I can't turn off just the local valve because it seems to be failing... I'm worried if I crank it too much it'll start leaking. 

So once I get some free time that I can dedicate to the project I'll turn off the hot water, try replacing the valve gasket, detach the faucet hose try reverse flushing a bit, maybe take it apart further (I've only disassembled the head/aerator portion so far) and see if that solves anything.  I haven't even really gone under there to figure out how the hot water valve is attached to the plumbing (I understand it could be soldered or just compression fit)

[zolotiyeruki]

One possibility I haven't seen discussed:  something in the hot water supply line leading into the faucet itself, or some debris in the faucet cartridge.

Before cutting up plumbing lines and busting out the torch to put in a new valve, I'd first check out the faucet.  They're typically made so that it's easy to remove and replace the cartridge, and once you pull that out, it should be pretty easy to tell if there's debris or failing rubber in it.

I'll do this first.  The problem seems to be intermittent so I'm not hurrying and have house guests right now so I don't want to shut off the hot water and then get stuck with an overnight repair.  As mentioned, I can't turn off just the local valve because it seems to be failing... I'm worried if I crank it too much it'll start leaking. 

So once I get some free time that I can dedicate to the project I'll turn off the hot water, try replacing the valve gasket, detach the faucet hose try reverse flushing a bit, maybe take it apart further (I've only disassembled the head/aerator portion so far) and see if that solves anything.  I haven't even really gone under there to figure out how the hot water valve is attached to the plumbing (I understand it could be soldered or just compression fit)

I wouldn't even take the faucet off first--I'd go straight for the cartridge.  That doesn't require de-installation, just removal of the handle and sometimes a few other bits.