Pest Control - Skunks, Possums and Rats in yard!

[jeromedawg]

Hey all,

Looking for tips/advice on keeping rodents and pests out of my parents' backyard. They are coming from an empty adjacent lot owned by an HOA, which often allows an overgrowth of shrubbery and brush. I reported them to code enforcement and they cleaned up some of the brush. But there is still some vegetation out there. I contacted vector control and all they offered was a very lame and generic "you need to secure the property" response. My parents hired a pest control company to deal with the rats as they were getting inside the house, but he noted that they were likely coming from the lot as there were some dirt mounds up against my parents' fence on the other side (in the adjacent lot). The Vector control guy said the skunks are likely burrowing under so I'm thinking the rats and skunks are sharing the same passageway(s). He said possums may be climbing the fence as well.

Anyway, it sounds like the HOA likely won't do much and neither will vector control, so my parents/brother will have to take matters into their own hands. They had an orange tree in their yard with a number of oranges, which the exterminator said was definitely attracting the rats, and so they have since harvested all the oranges to remove that food source. But the neighbors on the other side also have an orange tree, so the rodents may still be using my parents' yard as "safe passage"

Any suggestions on what else they can do to keep the critters out? First thing that comes to mind is trenching the fence separating the adjacent lot and my parents' lot and attaching a couple feet of chicken-wire to the bottom of the fence and burying it back up. That's a lot of work though - my parents and brother aren't going to DIY that and would likely need to have someone come out to do it. Not sure if there are simpler approaches like coyote urine or other deterrents they can apply at the base of the fence/ground on the problem side.

[Sibley]

Report to Code enforcement again? The HOA should be maintaining the property adequately, and at this point that includes rodent control.

[YttriumNitrate]

My experience is that chemical deterrents work for a little while and then they don't. Rats and skunks are pretty smart creatures that will quickly acclimate to their surroundings.

[jeromedawg]

Report to Code enforcement again? The HOA should be maintaining the property adequately, and at this point that includes rodent control.

They probably will state that they cleaned up the brush and there's no violation. Vector control told me that the code violation for brush has to be pretty severe overgrowth/excess. The lot next to my parents is one where they often just let it get to that point and then come in to clean it up when necessary and on an 'as needed' basis, rather than maintaining it on a scheduled basis. The neighboring HOA sucks and doesn't want to do anything - my brother actually contacted them directly and the president denied that there was an issue and that they use pest control (which is probably a big fat lie).

[ctuser1]

I don't particularly mind skunks and possums.
 
I live next to a river, which is separated by wooded wetland from my backyard.  I regularly get nests of skunks and possums right behind my backyard.

They don't bother me, and I don't bother them. Occasionally a skunk would spray somewhere in the yard - likely to escape from a predator - and that part of my yard will smell awful. I just avoid that part for the time being. 

Rats are a different matter. They like to come inside the house. It isn't easy to control them in the yard itself - but you can (and should) make sure they don't get into the house. I had a professional (stupid me - it's very DIYable) seal my garage and other places where the rats could get through. But really all he did was to use some sort of foam and blocked all holes. I'm not sure what the foam is - but I'm sure if you went to home depot and asked they should be able to show you.

[Fishindude]

A bad rodent problem takes a combination of poisons, shooting on sight if possible, and trapping.   
Kill them, don't live trap and relocate elsewhere to be someone else's problem.

Get rid of any piled debris and any sources of outdoor food such as dog and cat feed, bird feed, etc.

[NaN]

Please, please, don't use poison bait. If that rat is picked up by any other creature, especially owls, then it does not help the eco-system. Actually, great horned owls are one of the few predators that can attack a skunk successfully. The lack of predator population for rodents is a big issue.

Yes, for rodents, make sure there are no debris piles anywhere - attic, crawl space, outside. Seal off the structures as best you can. Actually, @ctuser1  I think it is worth it to hire a "professional" just to see how they look at every single hole and crack as a possible entrance point. We had a guy come out for free because he was hired by our previous owner and gave him a 3-year transferable warranty. It was very interesting to see him work.

In terms of your neighbors, yes, the pile and food source won't help. Once you seal off the house properly you might just leave them alone and let nature take its course but at least you are giving them no reason to investigate your property. The predators might take care of the population for you.

Again, just please, do not use poison.

[jeromedawg]

Please, please, don't use poison bait. If that rat is picked up by any other creature, especially owls, then it does not help the eco-system. Actually, great horned owls are one of the few predators that can attack a skunk successfully. The lack of predator population for rodents is a big issue.

Yes, for rodents, make sure there are no debris piles anywhere - attic, crawl space, outside. Seal off the structures as best you can. Actually, @ctuser1  I think it is worth it to hire a "professional" just to see how they look at every single hole and crack as a possible entrance point. We had a guy come out for free because he was hired by our previous owner and gave him a 3-year transferable warranty. It was very interesting to see him work.

In terms of your neighbors, yes, the pile and food source won't help. Once you seal off the house properly you might just leave them alone and let nature take its course but at least you are giving them no reason to investigate your property. The predators might take care of the population for you.

Again, just please, do not use poison.

Funny you mention this because while I have heard about avoiding poison, the pest control company my parents hired (in addition to most pest control companies I've worked with), all use poison and it's the kind of poison that is even stronger than the poison available for purchase in stores.
The pest control guy was explaining the stigma of poisons to my brother in that, in most cases, unless the predators are "going to town" and feasting on a bunch of poisoned rats/rodents all at the same time, likely the effect of the poison is going to be diminished by the time it's in their system. Perhaps similar to the analogy of taking too much of any given drug. Most of the companies I've dealt with will use snap traps but also in conjunction with their primary means of control which seems to be poison. It's just not viable for them to be laying a ton of snap traps around peoples' properties (also, think of the liability that goes along with that when little Johnny loses a finger because they got into a crawlspace they shouldn't have).

[erutio]

Can you adopt an alley cat?

[jeromedawg]

Can you adopt an alley cat?

haha, there are actually neighborhood cats roaming around their yard every now and then :)

Oh, forgot to provide a general update but after the pest control company came out (as well as Vector Control) the rat issue seems to have mostly been resolved. The pest control guy checked the poison boxes and found that the rats pretty much ate *all* of whatever he put out, which he said he put A LOT of - like 12 ounces of the stuff? I think he mentioned that a single rat will typically consume around an ounce before dying, so he estimates that close to if not a dozen rats were probably killed off this way. Monday night there was a possum that was caught on the Blink camera my brother setup in the yard but no skunks or rats for a good week or so now it seems.

[BECABECA]

For keeping rats and mice out of the house, look around the outside of the house for any hole they could be entering through. Mice can fit through holes around the size of a nickel. Stuff any of these holes with fine steel wool. Then fill in the hole with spray foam. If you only fill with foam and not with the fine steel wool, they can just chew through the foam and get back in.

I did this at my mom’s house after she had a ton of mice issues. She hasn’t had any more mice since, so I’m pretty sure we found their entry point.

[jeromedawg]

For keeping rats and mice out of the house, look around the outside of the house for any hole they could be entering through. Mice can fit through holes around the size of a nickel. Stuff any of these holes with fine steel wool. Then fill in the hole with spray foam. If you only fill with foam and not with the fine steel wool, they can just chew through the foam and get back in.

I did this at my mom’s house after she had a ton of mice issues. She hasn’t had any more mice since, so I’m pretty sure we found their entry point.

Yea, so my dad got into this really bad habit of running wiring to half-assed jury-rigged lighting he put up all over the outside of the house in areas he thought needed lighting. In this case, he cracked open a vent to run a wire through and the pest control guy thinks the rats were slipping in through that crack (I guess the opening was big enough for them to get through). They sealed that entry point back up and no rats since, although my dad (who is currently suffering from anxiety/depression and paranoia) is worried and concerned that the rats are still in the house. In any case, we haven't seen or heard of any rats showing back up again, either inside or outside of the house, so I think the poison the pest control company set out must have worked pretty effectively.

[NaN]

The pest control guy was explaining the stigma of poisons to my brother in that, in most cases, unless the predators are "going to town" and feasting on a bunch of poisoned rats/rodents all at the same time, likely the effect of the poison is going to be diminished by the time it's in their system.

Classic sales job there. Are the pest control scientists? Have they ever done a controlled study to verify any claims they make?

https://apnews.com/9766f9f7d9404570936b8d1168eae6af

Anyone reading this thread, please DO NOT USE POISON!

[FINate]

I don't mind opossums or skunks - they eat bugs.

Rats are a different story as they tear up air ducts and chew electrical wiring potentially causing a fire hazard. First line of defense is to seal up *all* entry points into the house and block access to areas under decks. Then make sure vegetation is cleared away from the house, in particular you don't want tree branches overhanging near the roof line. Rats climb trees and love having access to the roof. Next, clear all piles and hiding/nesting places in the yard, and also clear grass and thin vegetation in the yard. Then focus on getting rid of the rats in the house. Traps can work but require a lot of practice and work, and in some cases you cannot reasonably get to where the infestation is located. In such cases limited use of poison is justified: Rats will almost certainly die *inside* the house (because you sealed all the points of entry) and are unlikely to end up in the food chain.

Keeping the exterior of the house sealed and removing vegetation will make the property way less attractive to all sorts of wildlife.

[NaN]

Of course poison is effective. No one can argue that because that's how pest control businesses make it seem like their business was "worth it". I can't imagine using bait in a successfully closed off house such that rats are mummified in your walls. But, sure, go ahead if that is what you can guarantee and want.  Not all pest control workers have that opinion, too. The guy we hired once (and never again) was commenting how the POINT of the bait is to make the rodent incredibly thirsty such that it retreats to a water supply outside the house (so hopefully one not in your house, because if so that's a bigger plumbing problem not a rodent problem). When the rodent retreats outside the house, it can be picked up by any number of predators because it is dying and useless. By the way, did you know Great Horned Owls are one of the few successful predators for skunks? Ah, but let's just bait our rats, let them run outside, then kill the predator for skunks, then complain about the skunk problem. This is the 'neighborhood' version of removing wolves from Yellowstone.

[FINate]

Of course poison is effective. No one can argue that because that's how pest control businesses make it seem like their business was "worth it". I can't imagine using bait in a successfully closed off house such that rats are mummified in your walls. But, sure, go ahead if that is what you can guarantee and want.  Not all pest control workers have that opinion, too. The guy we hired once (and never again) was commenting how the POINT of the bait is to make the rodent incredibly thirsty such that it retreats to a water supply outside the house (so hopefully one not in your house, because if so that's a bigger plumbing problem not a rodent problem). When the rodent retreats outside the house, it can be picked up by any number of predators because it is dying and useless. By the way, did you know Great Horned Owls are one of the few successful predators for skunks? Ah, but let's just bait our rats, let them run outside, then kill the predator for skunks, then complain about the skunk problem. This is the 'neighborhood' version of removing wolves from Yellowstone.

If you have rats in your house for any length of time you almost certainly already have mummified rats in your walls/attic/crawl space. They don't live forever, you know.

Exterminators have an incentive to treat the symptom, not the cause. If you're going to hire people to work on a pest problem, as my post above implies, you're better off hiring a handyman and landscaper.

And of course, I'd rather use a trap if at all possible. But if that doesn't work, I'm going with poison as a last resort. I know from personal experience how destructive they can be if not taken care of. And yes, if they die in the walls that's better than living and breeding in the house.

ETA: Also, up thread you make a point that exterminators are an unreliable source of information, but then with me you're citing information you received from an exterminator. I think we can at least agree that exterminators say all sorts of things to get people to agree to their services, including things like claiming poisoned rats don't die in the house because they run outside for water!

[jeromedawg]

Of course poison is effective. No one can argue that because that's how pest control businesses make it seem like their business was "worth it". I can't imagine using bait in a successfully closed off house such that rats are mummified in your walls. But, sure, go ahead if that is what you can guarantee and want.  Not all pest control workers have that opinion, too. The guy we hired once (and never again) was commenting how the POINT of the bait is to make the rodent incredibly thirsty such that it retreats to a water supply outside the house (so hopefully one not in your house, because if so that's a bigger plumbing problem not a rodent problem). When the rodent retreats outside the house, it can be picked up by any number of predators because it is dying and useless. By the way, did you know Great Horned Owls are one of the few successful predators for skunks? Ah, but let's just bait our rats, let them run outside, then kill the predator for skunks, then complain about the skunk problem. This is the 'neighborhood' version of removing wolves from Yellowstone.

If you have rats in your house for any length of time you almost certainly already have mummified rats in your walls/attic/crawl space. They don't live forever, you know.

Exterminators have an incentive to treat the symptom, not the cause. If you're going to hire people to work on a pest problem, as my post above implies, you're better off hiring a handyman and landscaper.

And of course, I'd rather use a trap if at all possible. But if that doesn't work, I'm going with poison as a last resort. I know from personal experience how destructive they can be if not taken care of. And yes, if they die in the walls that's better than living and breeding in the house.

ETA: Also, up thread you make a point that exterminators are an unreliable source of information, but then with me you're citing information you received from an exterminator. I think we can at least agree that exterminators say all sorts of things to get people to agree to their services, including things like claiming poisoned rats don't die in the house because they run outside for water!

What's funny about all this is that the exterminator actually gave my brother some chunks of poison after helping at my parents because my brother was having issues too. And he was basically telling him (in addition to the vector control guy) that he could just rebait the bait boxes on his own and get his own bait stations and Tomcat (or whatever). Even the vector control guy was recommending use of poison (though he couldn't recommend a specific brand) as a primary means to control the problem. Trapping that many rats doesn't seem practical based on A) how cautious and intelligent they are and B) likely the fact that they will reproduce at a higher rate than dying by trap. To the first point A, I thought I read something about how some rats will avoid eating from a source of food if they see one of their peers consuming and dying from it.

[FINate]

Yep, they're smart and difficult to eliminate once established. Don't think poison or traps alone will do the trick.

[jeromedawg]

Yep, they're smart and difficult to eliminate once established. Don't think poison or traps alone will do the trick.

Well, they have gone through most of the initial control steps: sealing entry-points (that they know of lol), removing all the oranges from the orange tree in the back (this was a huge one), cleaning up vegetation (they someone come out to trim the overgrowth, which was looking pretty bad for the past half year), set a few traps (nothing caught) and set poison stations around the perimeter. The activity has definitely dwindled down but my brother said he saw one rat set off motion on a cam so I'm sure there are a few around. I'd say the population has likely taken a pretty big hit though.