Wiring questions

[norabird]

Hello all!

I bought a Minka Aire ceiling fan for my room and finally tried installing it myself yesterday. First time ever dealing with wiring and didn't realize I'd need to trim the wires down from the provided length (three wires, each many feet long). Do I need to buy wire cutters to do this, or are scissors okay?

I'm also concerned about overloading the junction box. I'll have six connections tucked inside--three on the fan/receiver side, two to connect to the outlet, and one for the ground wire. The hot wire is having trouble sticking to the stranded black wire coming from the receiver--should I also get electrical tape? I'm going to strip the stranded wire further to try and help it stay in the connector.

Lastly, the box is supposed to be able to support 50 lbs; how do I know if it does? Right now the motor housing is hanging from the hanging bracket, but not the glass dome or the blades. I'm a little afraid that it will turn out to be too heavy, but I don't know how likely that is.

Thanks in advance for any help! I want to be able to DIY it, but I'm definitely afraid of causing an issue by doing it improperly.

[Greg]

If you don't know that the wiring box in the ceiling can support a fan, it probably can't.  You can replace it though with one that can.

Scissors will work but it would be best to borrow a wire cutter/stripper. 

Lead the stranded wire from the fan slightly when installing the wire nut, don't over twist.  The box should indicate how many wires/what size/connections it can hold.  If you just have wires coming in and connecting to the fan, you should be ok.

[norabird]

Thanks Greg! I had the bright idea of calling the manufacturer after seeing installation videos where the connections are kept in the canopy, and apparently that's the norm, so I'm a little less worried now.

[Spork]

What was installed at that ceiling box before?  If it was another fan, you're likely to be okay.  If it was a lightweight light fixture, I'm with Greg -- it was probably not made for a fan.

Newer houses seem to have a bit of fore thought on prewiring for fans.  In other words, separate switching for the light and the fan and a heavy duty box to hang the fan from.  Older houses... less likely unless there was already a fan hanging there.

Fan boxes are usually mechanically screwed down to ceiling joists (though there are alternative ways to hang them with bracing that works its way back to the joists).  You could probably swing from one if you could grab onto it somehow.

[paddedhat]

In addition to the obvious need to support the weight (and a typical fan weighs nowhere near 50LBS) is the need to address metal fatigue in older metal junction boxes. Typically these boxes have tabs, stamped out of the same material as the box, that are bent inward and tapped to accept the cover screws. If a fan is slightly out of balance it will wobble and slowly crack the tabs off the box. Rated fan boxes address both issues.
To the OP, nothing personal, but if you are asking about scissors, and the need to keep splices together with electrical tape, you are offering a few clues that you are in over your head. Electrical work is one of the few things they you can DIY and have the opportunity to both kill yourself AND burn the place down. Might be time for a bit of help with some experience, before you go too much further.

[norabird]

So is this something I should bring someone in for? It's theoretically something I should be able to do myself, which is why I was trying. My steps so far match up with the installation videos I'm seeing, and I know I can get it done on another try or two, but is that stupid? I'll double check the junction box to see what it's rated for (if it says), or maybe the management company on my building has info on what it's suitable for. I have an estimate of $175 (including possible fan box replacement), is it better go with that than to try and DIY? I feel like that's the easy way out here when I could theoretically do a bit more research/work and finish it on my own, but maybe I'd only be inviting trouble.

[math-ya]

no offense but, it sounds like you really dont know what you are doing here, and if you make a mistake, there could be a fire. If you were just risking your own safety it would be one thing, but putting others at risk in the apartment building isnt too cool, and I bet you could be held liable for damages. If I were in your shoes, I would hire the electrician (175 sounds steep to install a fan) Then when the electrician did the work, I would watch him and ask lots of questions, so next time you might be able to complete the task on your own with confidence. 

[risky4me]

Norabird,
 Electricity is very unforgiving and dangerous. I work in the industry and I would be tempted to pay $75 for a real electrician to install it. The code requires specific boxes for mounting fans that are designed to withstand the fan load and vibration. If this electrician is a professional it will be well worth it and he won't allow a poor installation.
If you attempt this be sure to have a circuit tester and make sure the circuit has been disconnected and test each wire before touching them- and then touch them as though they were hot. Please be careful.

[norabird]

Lots of food for thought! I am most concerned about successfully tucking the wire nuts back up into the junction box without losing the connection, specifically on the hot wire which is not locking well in the wire nut. It sounds like I should borrow or buy wire strippers and cutters, and I think if I strip an extra bit of the stranded wire it will help them bond. I may also use electrical tape on that one connection just as a precaution, which I know isn't always seen as needed, but would help to at least keep the wires together even with a loose connection. I agree that I did not know what I was doing when I set out, but I have been reading and learning--is it wrong to think that's enough and that a professional isn't necessary? Genuinely asking, I have been surprised by the consensus to hire a pro. If I had had wire strippers when I first attempted the install, I probably would have been able to finish it same day, as the instructions were clear, I just was lacking room to tuck everything away properly. The breaker has been turned off and I'm not worried on that front. My super says that the junction box is meant for ceiling fans, so that should be okay.

[EAL]

If your super confirmed that your ceiling mount box can support a fan than get some wire strippers and DIY, you can do it! Look on youtube. I'm sure there's a video that can walk you through it. This is a really easy job as long as you have the support in the box in the ceiling, there is no reason you can't safely complete this on your own by reading the instructions and looking on Youtube. 

[monarda]

Some wire nuts are better quality than the ones you might find that just come with the fan. There's also different sizes, so you may not be using the correct size if it isn't holding.

[Greg]

Good news about the box being for fans.  To the concerns of others, yes electricity can be dangerous and so you should be careful, but this isn't beyond your abilities, you're just asking questions to be sure. 

Combining solid house wire and stranded fixture wires with a nut can be tricky.  Often the wire nuts supplied by the fixture maker are inadequate.  If they're small and orange, throw them out.  Get some of the larger beige ones.

Twist the stranded wire so it's not a bunch of straight wires, this makes it more solid to connect to.  If you twist the solid and stranded wires together before installing the nut, and lead the stranded wire slightly so it sticks out past the solid one about 1/8", it will work better.  After you think you have it connected, pull on the nut and wires to see if they hold.  You should only need to strip about 5/8" of the stranded wire.

[norabird]

Thanks Greg, EAL and monarda! The previous fixture had a larger nut for the hot wire, which I'll be using; maybe I'll pick up a spare to be sure.

[Jack]

Lots of food for thought! I am most concerned about successfully tucking the wire nuts back up into the junction box without losing the connection, specifically on the hot wire which is not locking well in the wire nut.

First rule of DIY: if you think it looks wrong, it probably is.

I don't think anybody's telling you to give up on DIY, or even DIY electrical work; they're telling you that you either need help or you need to do a bunch more learning before you continue.

It sounds like I should borrow or buy wire strippers and cutters

When the tool in question is a $100+ power tool, then it may make sense to look for alternatives. However, when you're talking about a cheap hand tool, it's worth it just to buy correct tool. A basic wire stripper tool (e.g.this one) is used easily often enough to justify being included in every homeowner's toolbox.

My super says that the junction box is meant for ceiling fans, so that should be okay.

IMO, part of being competent to install a ceiling fan includes knowing what to look for to figure out whether the box is right yourself. The fact that you apparently didn't Google "how to tell if a ceiling box is fan rated" and learn from the results is worrisome.

[ShoulderThingThatGoesUp]

This is an unusually harsh thread for this forum. Installing a fan with existing wiring is a reasonable newbie DIY project. The boxes that go between joists are a pain to put in place but do work, but it sounds like in this case you're fine.

Working above your head is surprisingly tiring, so make sure to take a break instead of doing something poorly when needed.

[norabird]

Ah, thank you ShoulderThing! I was feeling quite discouraged by some of the remarks and as if perhaps I was misjudging my abilities. I'm hopeful that for my second attempt I'll be able to take the necessary care but will certainly be going the better slow and steady route instead of rushing just for the sake of getting it done without as much care.