New Lawn and sprinkler system

[Trying2bFrugal]

We moved into 2022 built house last Nov, SE Michigan.

I need to build deck, lawn and sprinkler system in next few months.
The backyard is 4500 sq ft and front it might be around 1000 sq ft. So totaling around 5500 sq ft.

We may be putting the slide and play yard set for toddler, deck will be around 400 sq ft. Vegetable garden (planned to keep a raised bed about 200 sq ft would go on this) and may be a 100 sq ft on flower bed. Or mostly will do a 2 ft along the fence for vegetable gardening. So around 4000-5000 sq ft of lawn grass.

This post is specific for help on lawn and sprinkler.

From what I read these are the steps I learnt
1. Remove debris, stones
2. Using the tiller dig soil for removing any more debris
3. Use lawn roller, smooth the surface
4. plan the sprinkler, dig and lay the water pipes (any tips on pipe, sprinklers, timer/wifi options)
5. Test water, close the digging
6. Lay topsoil
7. Lawn roller, smooth it out, check level
8. Water/let it sit for couple days on rain to see if there is any settling
9. Lay seeds
10. cover it using peat moss
11. water 4 times a day to keep the mositure.

For Lawn:
1. Seeds:  I saw Costco selling scotts sun & shade grass seed 12lb for $45. It has Ryegrass, Fescue, Kentucky Blue grass combo. I read online that 10lb of seeds (with over seeding considered) per 1000 sq ft. Is this right measurement? I could get 4 bags and can return if not used. Is there other places i should consider?

2. Ground: Right now its the construction grading, no top soil. I am going to call the landscaping companies for enquiring top soil. Is there other places I should check? How much of top soil I should be laying down? How do I calculate how much cu.soil needed?  I was thinking of laying 1 inch of top soil and 1/4 inch or a thin layer  of compost, spread on field and let it settle for week before laying the seeds. Not sure if laying compost is bad idea. Just trying to see which is better.
Also read I can do soil testing. But if this site is filled with construction soil (not sure if they would be accurate even if i take samples), does it still make sense to get sampling? if so, where do I get it tested for reasonable time/price?

3. Tools: What tools I should buy vs rent?
I have Garden rake, Shovel, pick axe, and

I am thinking i may need
    -  Landscaping rake ($30 on marketplace)
    -  Tiller (rent is $32/4hrs or $46/day or someone selling on markerplace for $200)
    -  hand digger https://www.lowes.com/pd/CRAFTSMAN-9-in-Fiberglass-Handle-Post-Hole-Digger/1000752636
    -  Lawn roller https://www.walmart.com/ip/Costway-16-x-20-Heavy-Duty-Push-Tow-Lawn-Roller-Roller/355525993or rent $26/day

For sprinkler, i really dont have much ideas on the tools I may need. I was looking at something like BHyve https://a.co/d/fpUzTsT
I will be having vegetable garden, flower garden, backyard, front yard and side (5 zone?) May be I need 5 zone or some sort of watering. Any suggestions would be really helpful.

I would prefer if any tools could make it to make it faster at small price than completely going manual. I was even thinking to get it from craigslist or marketplace and sell after the work is done. I had shoulder cap issue in past, but have been working out last 3 months to get it strengthened. I would have another pair of hands when it is needed.

[uniwelder]

If you’re in southeast Michigan, it doesn’t seem like there should be any need for a sprinkler system. Don’t you get plenty of consistent rain there?

[Trying2bFrugal]

Most part, its true. I dont have sprinkler in my old house.  But last year it was very hot and less rain and I had to water with oscillating sprinkler manually to keep up.

 If this would cost less than $500, I would lay the pipes, set the sprinkler and run only when needed. So I dont need to do later and would be helpful during travels.

[Sanitary Stache]

I am generally opposed to sprinkler systems.  I can't understand how wasting water to grow grass that then has to be mowed is trying to be frugal.  I always walk around pretending grass clippings are cash money, because that is the only way a grass lawn makes sense to me.

[Sibley]

I would vote to reconsider putting in 4000 sq foot of biological wasteland, ie, grass. Sure, have a section that is grass, but why not have a larger section that is native plants? It'll be beneficial for the environment, less ongoing maintenance for you once established, and require less watering than grass. Don't forget appropriate trees and shrubs.

Be part of the solution, not add to the problem.

[Trying2bFrugal]

I respect each of your idea about grass vs native plants. I am planning to do 8 ftx40 ft along the fence side to go towards veg and flowers (this would be native, perinials and got seeds from local) garden bed.

I got a kid who is 4yo and her friends also would visit and we get together with friends atleast once a week and summer they would play outside. So they need playing space in a fenced backyard and I would atleast need the 50% of the yard with grass. Roughly 4000 (2000 in backyard and 1000 front, 1000 on sides).

 I understand it may not be seen as best, but I am pretty sure, even here if everyone is honest, would be only 2 out of 10 would go that route.. Also if I had to rent or sell, none of the work I do, I want to go waste or redo.

Also I am not planning to run water everyday or even every week. Only to be used on hot summers. Believe it or not, this winter is the worst in 100 years in Michigan and defined drought by government. We live 500 ft from the lake,  so I am not much worried about land water or watering the grass frequently.

If I am doing a work, i like to do it once and efficient. Thats why planning to install the water pipes and sprinkler, so if I need in future, I dont redo. Also, I may not be in same physical, metal or financial state, so doing it now.

[Sibley]

Sigh. Ok, you want grass. Still, don't do grass. Kentucky Bluegrass is so named because it does great in Kentucky. Michigan is not Kentucky. There are better choices.

Look into things like clover, microclover, and other grass alternatives. Some of them will meet your needs quite well. I have a bunch of clover in my yard for example. If you do use grass seed, do a bit of reading about the different types and choose the type best suited to your area. Flip the bag over and read the label, its required to tell you what kind of seed is in the bag and the percentages of each. It might surprise you.

https://www.canr.msu.edu/resources/smart_lawns_for_pollinators  <--- that might help some, there will be other resources of course.

[lthenderson]

I just let my lawn go dormant when it gets too dry. Kids can still easily play on it, the grass is still there but now brown instead of green. It turns green again when the moisture returns. I've raised two kids on it with no issues.

[nereo]

I have a 4 year old, which means I routinely go over to the homes of other 3-5 year olds.  You do not need a grassy, manicured lawn for them to play outside. I’d argue it’s not even the best choice for kids, who seem to vastly prefer digging in sandboxes, the dirt, wood chips and playing with sticks.  If you putting in a play structure you don’t want it sitting on grass, but wood chips or dirt (and if its used as frequently as you hope it will be, the grass will all die around the high traffic/impact areas).

You’ve also moved in last November - which means you haven’t even been there for a spring/summer/fall to observe things like drainage patterns, foliage and shadow lines - let alone noticed pollinators and other critters. Even if you are hell-bend on a grassy lawn (and it sounds like you are) I’d still recommend going through a full cycle of seasons to know and understand your property. Even how and where the leaves fall in autumn (and what you do with them) is going to be important for the health of your landscaping.

SPrinkler systems for lawns are a big tip-off that there’s bigger problems underneath which the owner is trying to solve through supplemental watering. Typically it’s the wrong mixture of plants, often combined with drainage issues and too much sunlight at the wrong times.   Sibley already pointed some better alternatives in Michigan - I’d go to a local, independent garden store and talk with them about what thrives best in your specific climate. It won’t be Kentucky Blue…

…and for the love of this planet, please don’t dump fertilizers and pesticides and weed killer.  Those are also an indication that your yard is at odds with its local environment, and those items aren’t solutions, but poor, short term stop-gap measures.

[Paper Chaser]

What about rainwater catchment? Gather rain water during rainy times and deploy it during dry times? It's much cheaper than a sprinkler system.

[Trying2bFrugal]

I have a 4 year old, which means I routinely go over to the homes of other 3-5 year olds.  You do not need a grassy, manicured lawn for them to play outside. I’d argue it’s not even the best choice for kids, who seem to vastly prefer digging in sandboxes, the dirt, wood chips and playing with sticks.  If you putting in a play structure you don’t want it sitting on grass, but wood chips or dirt (and if its used as frequently as you hope it will be, the grass will all die around the high traffic/impact areas).

You’ve also moved in last November - which means you haven’t even been there for a spring/summer/fall to observe things like drainage patterns, foliage and shadow lines - let alone noticed pollinators and other critters. Even if you are hell-bend on a grassy lawn (and it sounds like you are) I’d still recommend going through a full cycle of seasons to know and understand your property. Even how and where the leaves fall in autumn (and what you do with them) is going to be important for the health of your landscaping.

SPrinkler systems for lawns are a big tip-off that there’s bigger problems underneath which the owner is trying to solve through supplemental watering. Typically it’s the wrong mixture of plants, often combined with drainage issues and too much sunlight at the wrong times.   Sibley already pointed some better alternatives in Michigan - I’d go to a local, independent garden store and talk with them about what thrives best in your specific climate. It won’t be Kentucky Blue…

…and for the love of this planet, please don’t dump fertilizers and pesticides and weed killer.  Those are also an indication that your yard is at odds with its local environment, and those items aren’t solutions, but poor, short term stop-gap measures.

I agree with most parts. We moved to first house last year which is 40+ year old house where no sprinkler, I converted some part of the lawn to vegetable garden. I just cut the grass once two weeks, didnt used any ferts/chemicals, no watering except for couple times in the whole summer. The grass clippings just go in it. Just over seeded grass before rainy days. It had clover, dandelions and my neighbor keep telling me about weeds and stories on getting referral to local companies which i declined and continue to just mulch with same grass. On peak summer, the lawn looked greener on mine than his although i didnt water like he did and he even admired how i got that. it is far from lush look though just green. So I see what you meant.

But this is a new construction house, meaning the dirt filled for grading and no top soil. There was a rain three days back and I cant walk in the ground. I have to do landscaping before this summer per this HOA and city need the land to be covered. I am talking about 6-10 kids in the range of 2 years to 7 years during summer weekends on every get together, playing outside. Now how will you manage them in the 3000 sq ft backyard without some sort of grass? I dont need bushy lushy lawn, but need some sort of ground cover. Dont want them get muddy every time they go out. And there is a dog too.

Also there is a PITA person on the community who petitioned the next door neighbor getting a chained fence (which i like, to allow air and light pass through) and that person want everyone to have vinyl fence. I still new on the home ownership to tackle these nonsense from HOA but i think once the builder sells all their houses, it may get better as the association will be controlled by the home owners.

I will go talk to a local landscaping company for topsoil and a nursery for plants. Dandelion, clover looks good but some people consider that as weed. I liked the mini clover than regular.

What I wanted from this post is on tips on clearing ground, preparing land, piping technique, any practical ideas which could improvise the work. But so far, i got earth friendly comments.

Anyway, I will get the manual landscaping rake (30 tines or 36 tines?), electric power tiller (if friends dont have one, will buy a refurb and sell it), trencher (manual or rental on power), mulch (currently Lowes sells 5/$10, wife wants to keep stones so we dont need to replace every other year) if any on city giving free mulch, compost (need to again check the local bodies). On preparing the land, watched a video saying take all debris out, rake, till, topsoil and till again. Need to still see how to make more sense on the slide, vegetable beds, flower beds on the backyard.

[uniwelder]

What I wanted from this post is on tips on clearing ground, preparing land, piping technique, any practical ideas which could improvise the work. But so far, i got earth friendly comments.

The MMM mindset is generally earth friendly, hence the lack of useful comments for installing a sprinkler system. 

You probably have decent soil, so getting grass to grow shouldn't be a problem, regardless of whether you're dealing with subsoil instead of rich black topsoil.  I seeded grass on clay subsoil and didn't have any issues, but it didn't have a chance to get compacted.  If yours has been run over with heavy machinery, renting a tiller could make some sense.  Yank out any protruding stones and roots, but I don't think there needs to be anything drastic done besides that. 

I haven't understood the use of rollers, so that's probably unnecessary.  I guess it'll help the seeds get better contact with the soil, but grass grows well enough without that step.  You probably only need to water once a day as well, not four, to get the grass started. 

[Sibley]

So, you have an externally imposed deadline. Sigh. I hate HOAs.

Go outside very early/very late in the day. You're looking for shadows, that will help you understand what drainage is doing. If you have a hard rain, get outside and look everywhere. You'll get soaked, that doesn't matter. You want to know where water is flowing, where it's pooling, etc. You just had rain, you know what's happening afterwards right now. You want water to flow away from the house. You also want it to drain decently, so where is it draining?

You want a kid friendly yard? You need shade. Which means trees. Think about sun and shade patterns, think about where your underground utilities are. Trees start small and grow, so you need to plant with full growth in mind. Far enough from the house, don't get too close to property lines. Plant trees that will naturally do well in the climate. Trees will also suck up a good amount of water.

Do you need pathways? If so, from where to where? (think sheds, garages, taking trash out, etc). What material? Think that out, throw it into the mix.

What restrictions do you have from the HOA? Throw those into the mix.

What is the soil actually like? Yeah, we know it's a new build. That doesn't mean it's automatically terrible. There's some really good info in a post that I made in the gardening section about soil testing. Go find it, research, and do some DIY soil tests to figure out what you have. Throw that info into the mix.

How much yard maintenance do you want to do? Sometimes small decisions can have a huge impact on the amount of time you have to spend. Keep that in mind.

Allergies? Get female plants rather than male - less pollen but more mess. Worth not dying from allergies.

That gives you a bunch of factors that you can use to help figure out a plan.

If you do it right, you don't need a sprinkler system. If you need a sprinkler system then you did it wrong. Get the right plants in the right places and they'll be fine most of the time without intervention.

[nereo]

To add to what Sibley said:  you have a brand new yard with new fill. It’s going to shift over the next few years. Keep that in mind as you decide what to do and why.

[JAYSLOL]

Ok, so there are quite a few things to consider for the irrigation system if you are going to DIY.  An irrigation specific supply place is going to be more helpful than going to Home Depot for parts.  You need to know your static and working water pressure on the line that’s going to supply water to the irrigation system.  That will help you determine how many sprinklers you can have on each zone and still maintain the correct pressure to run them, as well as how many zones you will need to cover your area, and wether or not you need a pressure regulator.  You also may need to have a back flow prevention device installed at the start of the system, check with the city or your irrigation supplier, some cities will hit you with a massive fine if you don’t use one.  It’s not efficient to mix different types of sprinklers on the same zone as they often have vastly different water output, for example don’t add fixed spray heads to a zone of rotors, the lawn covered by the sprays will be soaked and the lawn covered by rotors will be barely wet.  You want to make sure you use swing joints on every pop up sprinkler head, otherwise they will frequently break where they meet the pipe and you have to dig them up and fix them often.  You need to keep in mind that the system will need to be blown out for the winter so will need a main shutoff and a connection point to hook up a compressor that leaves no part of the system full of water for the winter.  There’s a lot of other tips and tricks and things to consider and know to design and build a good system.  There’s no shortage of complicating factors and other considerations I wouldn’t be able to even think of without seeing the yard in person.  I see a lot of very poorly DIYed home systems, it something that I would probably have professionally designed and installed if I wasn’t a landscaper. 

[Trying2bFrugal]

So, you have an externally imposed deadline. Sigh. I hate HOAs.

Go outside very early/very late in the day. You're looking for shadows, that will help you understand what drainage is doing. If you have a hard rain, get outside and look everywhere. You'll get soaked, that doesn't matter. You wa..

Thanks for the inputs. I did a rough plan. Not sure how i could upload here on image. But about 10ft x 60 ft will be flower bed+veg garden. Decided to keep it at ground level, keep 2 ft on mulch for weed prevention. On one side, about 15 ftx15 ft goes for playset for the kid (those kidkraft one, someone gifted us). And remaining 30ftx10ft goes for flower bed. It leaves me about 40x50ft on backyard, for now going with grass. Front yard, is going to be 50% of flower bed. I got native flower seeds last year, just need to plan for the annual/perennial/rhizome combo. Frontyard gets 100% sunlight throughout the day (south facing). I was checking on the grass alternative which doesnt need much watering or maintenance. On mowing, on my previous house with 5000 sq ft yard, it took me 1 hour every month (i do once a month, leave clippings on ground). I used to spend 30 mins everyday on gardening with kid.

Waterline is required for veg garden bed and flower bed. Sprinkler pipe is $30/100ft. The kit i got was $100/100 ft. I may just run the pipe down once i finalized the layout. Sprinkler wont be connected/run until its hot summer and no rain (thats <20% chance needed in SE Michigan). Water is expensive and US waste about 1/3 of its drinkable water for lawns.

We would start planning next kid by end of this year and I got to finish most of the new house work in this year. So next year, I will have less stuff to maintain apart from taking care of wife+new born+5 yo+all craziness around profession. That's the reason I am doing all these now without waiting another year as next breathing time would be 2 years from this December. Thats what i meant in my post that I want to do it once, efficiently and cost effectively.

I walked everyday few times to whole area, last two weeks. Like you mentioned, soil isnt terrible in backyard. But front yard is craped due to all the rocks and debris. I digged about 6" to see, and i think i have to remove 4" and replace with topsoil to avoid patches on grass or anyother which i plan. It will take me couple days to rake the big rocks. Ordered a used tiller from amazon which will come tomorrow. With that, will till couple inches, rake again. Then will apply 2inches of topsoil with compost.

Now I still haven't figured where I should get the information on alternative to grass (like you said Kentuky grass isnt best for my area, Fescue may be the only option if i got to seed grass). Micro clover is what i thought i may do on the front yard where road side areas where I don't want to spend water. Also the neighbors yard is full of crabgrass which already forming a lawn for me. :)

Wife already asking me why I am going nuts by just walking and do a lot of thinking. I was all growing with books and never had a chance to do much field work. Even now, sometimes mind says to invest the time in next tech which could easily get a pay raise which could pay off in a year paycheck. But other part of brain kept repeating money isnt everything. Once it gets on head, cant take it off.

[Trying2bFrugal]

Ok, so there are quite a few things to consider for the irrigation system if you are going to DIY.  An irrigation specific supply place is going to be more helpful than going to Home Depot for parts.  You need to know your static and working water pressure on the line that’s going to supply water to the irrigation system.  That will help you determine how many sprinklers you can have on each zone and still maintain the correct pressure to run them, as well as how many zones you will need to cover your area, and wether or not you need a pressure regulator.  You also may need to have a back flow prevention device installed at the start of the system, check with the city or your irrigation supplier, some cities will hit you with a massive fine if you don’t use one.  It’s not efficient to mix different types of sprinklers on the same zone as they often have vastly different water output, for example don’t add fixed spray heads to a zone of rotors, the lawn covered by the sprays will be soaked and the lawn covered by rotors will be barely wet.  You want to make sure you use swing joints on every pop up sprinkler head, otherwise they will frequently break where they meet the pipe and you have to dig them up and fix them often.  You need to keep in mind that the system will need to be blown out for the winter so will need a main shutoff and a connection point to hook up a compressor that leaves no part of the system full of water for the winter.  There’s a lot of other tips and tricks and things to consider and know to design and build a good system.  There’s no shortage of complicating factors and other considerations I wouldn’t be able to even think of without seeing the yard in person.  I see a lot of very poorly DIYed home systems, it something that I would probably have professionally designed and installed if I wasn’t a landscaper.

Thank you! thats a lot of good points.

At this point, I am considering
1. pvc water pipe to be run for vegetable garden
2. drip irrigation on vegetable and flower beds and may be soaking hose.
3. Sprinkler is something I am not yet decided as a permanent solution and may be using a tripod one. I am not sure of the layout yet so not digging anytime soon.

Do i need to get city approval for the above?

Neighbor got the 5 zone sprinkler + sod about 5000 sq ft for $6000 which is the lowest from what i heard from friends. A friend gave me a contractor contact who live in his community, could just do the sprinkler system. The only reason for me to consider getting his professional help is not the sprinkler but the stupid builder built house in 2022 with only one water outlet for garden hose. Even the 50 year old previous house got it in two places.

Now if i got to water the front yard, i have two options,
1. get a pro install everything properly with water outlets as i need
2. run the garden hose around the house during the 6 months where we see the sun and remove them during winter. Cost about $50 on hose, $50 on wifi timer and 1 hour of work every year and be done with it. Which isnt ideal but cheap and manageable


Just not sure how complicated it is to mess with city and code and stress. I did got the orbit sprinkler kit ($100/100 ft with whole kit with timer-amazon warehouse). Not sure if I run the pipe above ground and sprinkler above ground  needs any permission from city. I can just like with the tripod sprinkler on need basis with a garden hose on absolute hot summer with no rain.

[JAYSLOL]

Well, I don’t actually live in the US, much less your city, so I can’t say if you need a permit or not.  That would be something to check with the city about.  For my area I don’t need a permit to install an underground or above ground irrigation system, as long as I don’t modify the plumbing of the house and use an already available tap on the outside, and properly install an approved back flow prevention device.

[la Condessa]

We’re in the process of putting a sprinkler system in right now.  We had an irrigation pump installed by a professional and are consulting with him on our plans, parts and tools needed, etc., but doing the rest of the labor ourselves.  In our location no permits are needed.  We used to have a lawn and tried the let-it-go-dormant route, but it died.  We’re putting in large planting beds and want to have a much smaller lawn or lawn-like area in the front yard.  I’m looking for something with low water and low or no mow requirements to put in the part that will still be lawn in front and the same plus will stand up to a lot of foot traffic in the kids’ play area in the back.  (Zone 6b if anyone has suggestions!). Our weeds are very aggressive here and will put a thorn through the sole of a sandal, so it’s a constant battle in any are that isn’t completely covered by a lawn or thick ground cover or heavy mulch.