Replacing windows - help determining brands/materials

[Sibley]

I have 2 windows that really need to be replaced. Current windows are single hung, double pane, and these windows get the full brunt of the afternoon sun, plus a lot of wind and rain. They are in rough shape. The rest of the house has double hung, tilt in, vinyl windows that are in good condition.

I want to put in double hung windows, double pane, and I need something to help cut down heat gain from the sun, but I'm getting hung up (and lost in the marketing) on what materials are going to hold up well to the conditions. Vinyl I feel like is just going to repeat the current mess of warped windows that I can't close/lock fully. I've heard Andersen is a good brand, but again, that's all based on marketing. Andersen has wood windows with vinyl cladding, or wood with composite, or wood with aluminum.

The house has aluminum siding if that matters. There is a tree in the backyard that eventually will shade these windows, but it takes time for trees to grow that big.

Any advice, things to be aware of, etc?

[lhamo]

I got these in my recent remodel and am adding a few more -- replacing old aluminum framed windows that caused condensation/damage to the sills.

https://www.milgard.com/windows/V250/single-hung

They seem to be good quality to me. 

[RWD]

I just went down this rabbit-hole myself. We ended up going with Milgard Fiberglass (C650 Ultra) windows which were barely more expensive than the best Vinyl option I could find (Anlin). The Marvin windows looked nice but their cheapest line was about 50% more expensive than the Milgard we chose. Here in the desert there was no way I was going to choose vinyl for south-facing windows. Contraction/expansion rate is just too different from glass. They make thermally insulated aluminum frame windows but they still aren't as insulated as other frame options.

I didn't dig too deep into Andersen but did learn that there is a difference between "Renewal by Andersen" and "Andersen".

There are two main strategies for replacement installs. There is retrofit (or frame-over) which leaves the existing window frame in place and puts the new window over it. The frame will be bulkier in this case (and for the Anlin choice for us that meant it actually didn't meet code for minimum egress dimensions). Then there is full frame replacement which is more like actually getting a like-new window install. I got four quotes and it was 50/50 whether they recommended retrofit or full frame replacement. The Anlin guy quoted me $700/window extra for this option. We went with full frame replacement which from the Milgard installer seemed reasonable (though I don't know what the actually premium was).

Another thing to note is that warranties vary quite a between brands and sometimes even lines within brands. And then the installer themselves should have a separate warranty for install issues, definitely ask about this when getting quotes.

Make sure you understand how much the installer will do. One of the four quotes I got did not include patching up stucco afterwards. You said you have aluminum siding so either make sure they won't need to disturb it or will repair it as necessary when done. Also ask about timelines. Most companies were 6-8 weeks before the window would be installed but one quote I got said 3-4 months!

Almost all windows use Cardinal glass so don't expect much differentiation on the actual glass between brands. The main thing is to choose the correct amount of Low-E coating. If you're in a hot climate you'll want the lowest SHGC you can get (for south facing). And then lower U-Factor is good in all climates (more important in cold climates, if I understand correctly). There are tax incentives for the best of the best windows but it's not worth it to spend extra for. At least for our climate almost all options did not meet the performance necessary to get the piddly incentives anyway.

[RWD]

Another thing I just remembered. You can ask for staggered glass thickness to reduce noise transmission. Two panes of the same thickness will share resonance frequencies so if you stagger the glass thickness it blocks more sound. This was an option with all the brands I got quotes for and was only $50-100/window extra for +4 STC. We opted for this on just the bedroom windows, getting 1/8" over 3/16" glass.

[Sibley]

Thanks guys. Based on your input and more reading, I'm going to get fiberglass. I wasn't really aware that fiberglass was a thing, but doing some reading I think it's the best option for what I'm looking to do.

So, now looking for brands.

Pella - has fiberglass options. I have scheduled for a consult/estimate with them.
Andersen - does have a window with fiberglass exterior, however the interior is wood. This isn't a bad thing but it doesn't match the rest of the house.
Renewal by Andersen - I couldn't even tell for sure what the material is, so I'm assuming vinyl. Out.
Milgard - not available in my area apparently.
Marvin - has double hung fiberglass.

I need to get to the local lumberyard/home improvement store, it's NOT a big box store, but they are a big local one. They carry Marvin, Andersen, Jeld-Win, and Silverline. Jeld-Win and Silverline don't seem to have fiberglass. Between the store and Pella, those are probably my options. Wish me luck.

I also need to measure the windows to have a rough idea on size, I am well aware that I'm not capable of properly measuring for windows. I have prior experience with that, and the garage windows are installed sideways as a result.

Thanks for search terms - low e and u value. Want both to be lower apparently.

[Sibley]

Progress has been made.

Pella came out yesterday to do an estimate. $7600 for both windows, but that is literally everything.

Also went to the store that carries the other windows. Anderson is out, I didn't realize they're not actually all fiberglass. Marvin's fiberglass window looks acceptable. I got quotes on windows there, roughly $700 per window. And I got their list of recommended contractors.

Will be calling to installation estimates, researching companies, etc. I'm hoping the Pella quote is a "fuck you, we don't want to only do 2 windows" price. Cause that's a lot more than I was thinking.

[lhamo]

FWIW, on my current window quote the installation cost is roughly equal to what the windows cost -- for more expensive windows labor might be a big lower.  So maybe something like $3000 all in? 

[GilesMM]

FWIW, on my current window quote the installation cost is roughly equal to what the windows cost -- for more expensive windows labor might be a big lower.  So maybe something like $3000 all in?

For better or worse, that rule of thumb applies to most things, from water heaters to generators, from solar to bathrooms.

[Sibley]

FWIW, on my current window quote the installation cost is roughly equal to what the windows cost -- for more expensive windows labor might be a big lower.  So maybe something like $3000 all in?

Then I would assume Pella windows are either WAY more, or they're massively gouging on labor. I was originally thinking that the cost all in would be $3-4k.

I've got a couple of estimates lined up for tomorrow, some of the smaller outfits which respond on weekends. Will hopefully hear back from a couple other places tomorrow.

[RWD]

FWIW, on my current window quote the installation cost is roughly equal to what the windows cost -- for more expensive windows labor might be a big lower.  So maybe something like $3000 all in?

Then I would assume Pella windows are either WAY more, or they're massively gouging on labor. I was originally thinking that the cost all in would be $3-4k.

You can go to pella.com and see pricing for the windows themselves, I believe.

We were quoted $1.9k (vinyl retrofit) to $3.3k (Marvin fiberglass full frame replacement) per window, everything included. We didn't get a Pella quote. The quote we actually went with (Milgard) was $2.3k/window.

[Sandi_k]

We replaced all of our windows and sliders with full replacement fiberglass Marvin Infinity a few years back. Our contractor agreed to do installation at $500 per window, which ended up being a great way to go.

Integrity line was good, but even more expensive, so we felt that the Infinity was the best bang for the buck.

[Sibley]

We replaced all of our windows and sliders with full replacement fiberglass Marvin Infinity a few years back. Our contractor agreed to do installation at $500 per window, which ended up being a great way to go.

Integrity line was good, but even more expensive, so we felt that the Infinity was the best bang for the buck.

The line I'm looking at I believe is called Essential.  How are yours holding up? @Sandi_k

[Sandi_k]

We replaced all of our windows and sliders with full replacement fiberglass Marvin Infinity a few years back. Our contractor agreed to do installation at $500 per window, which ended up being a great way to go.

Integrity line was good, but even more expensive, so we felt that the Infinity was the best bang for the buck.

The line I'm looking at I believe is called Essential.  How are yours holding up? @Sandi_k

@Sibley, that line wasn't available in 2017 when we looked. And ours are holding up beautifully.

[RWD]

We replaced all of our windows and sliders with full replacement fiberglass Marvin Infinity a few years back. Our contractor agreed to do installation at $500 per window, which ended up being a great way to go.

Integrity line was good, but even more expensive, so we felt that the Infinity was the best bang for the buck.

The line I'm looking at I believe is called Essential.  How are yours holding up? @Sandi_k

The Essential line is what I was quoted. The sample frame piece the salesperson had looked really sharp. I liked that it had an acrylic finish which was super smooth and supposed to offer more protection over time. But it was also our most expensive quote.

[Sibley]

We replaced all of our windows and sliders with full replacement fiberglass Marvin Infinity a few years back. Our contractor agreed to do installation at $500 per window, which ended up being a great way to go.

Integrity line was good, but even more expensive, so we felt that the Infinity was the best bang for the buck.

The line I'm looking at I believe is called Essential.  How are yours holding up? @Sandi_k

The Essential line is what I was quoted. The sample frame piece the salesperson had looked really sharp. I liked that it had an acrylic finish which was super smooth and supposed to offer more protection over time. But it was also our most expensive quote.

The window I saw at the store looked good, I'm fine with it. Window appearance is not something that I'm going to sweat over too much - get the right style, get the right color, and call it good. Window durability and proper installation is the issue. Especially since I've got an old house and I have no idea what we're going to find when we take it apart.

[uniwelder]

...these windows get the full brunt of the afternoon sun, plus a lot of wind and rain. They are in rough shape.
...
...and I need something to help cut down heat gain from the sun...

It might look out of place, but have you considered an awning over the windows? I don't know how much roof coverage, if any, you have on that side of the house.  It'll help keep the rain off, which also means you don't have to worry about whether you've left them open when a sudden rain shower comes through.  Will also block the sun during the summer.

As mentioned previously, low-E glass is good too.

[tygertygertyger]

Sounds like you're already underway, but we had Renewal by Anderson out last fall.

They didn't use vinyl, but instead used some composite material that was better for the range of temperatures (Chicago area here). When the person came out, they had a short video on the material that we watched.

We haven't followed through on new windows, so I don't have any more information. Good luck!

[sonofsven]

I've installed hundreds of Milgard vinyl windows, including on multi million dollar ocean front houses, and wouldn't hesitate to recommend them in any situation.
I've installed less Andersens, but more than a hundred.
I don't have experience with any of the other brands you listed.
I would inquire with the outfits selling the windows and those installing the windows as to the post sale support.
One of the best things about Milgard in my area is that there is a nearby manufacturing facility, and they send a guy out to the coast where I work on schedule to deal with any issues. Since they offer a lifetime warranty to the original purchaser they have come out and replaced the glass units due to a blown seal twenty years after install.
So I would look for that kind of support.
One advantage to FG sash is that it's paintable; one advantage to vinyl is that it isn't.

[Sibley]

Well, I may have picked a contractor. Not based on price because I don't have a number from him, but based on the fact that he asked about details on the window, etc and came up with a potential issue. I appreciate it when contractors are smart, are thinking, and are willing to have those discussions with me. Such as it's very likely that I actually have a vinyl-plastic window than a vinyl window, because the problems I'm seeing are more consistent with plastic and not vinyl.

Doing a full frame replacement, ie a new construction window, would require pulling off siding around the windows. I have aluminum siding which isn't really made any more, but more importantly that's a massive can of worms. I KNOW that there's problems under the siding in various parts of the house so I have to assume there could be issues here. Even if there isn't rot, the problem is still what to reside with. This is much better avoided than tackled right now.

We're checking if the Marvin window comes in a replacement version, cause the quote I have is a new construction.

Sonofsven - Milgard isn't available in my area, I checked. But noted re the post sale support, will make inquiries.

[Just Joe]

We went with Andersen. x5 windows, all installed. ~$9000.

Wanted quality windows with the low-E option b/c west facing afternoon heat.

Very satisfied. 1 year same as cash from Home Depot if it matters.

There were alot of budget options out there. Was harder to find that middle ground of quality and price.

When we purchased our house, the previous owners had replaced a few windows with ~$200 solutions from a local glass installer. Their quality and fit was about what you'd expect.

That's about typical for the previous owner's maintenance choices as we've discovered. Slowly correcting alot of their less than optimum choices.

Next up, a replacement front door and sidelights. Also west facing.

[Sibley]

Well, its been a busy day. I have a quote for $3,500 all in, one for $500 per window (not including window), and pending numbers from 2 others. Not including the $4600 quote from Pella. That's all I'm getting (I tend to split between 1-man outfits and companies). Took advantage of my work from home day. I'll be working late to get my actual work done. Pella is out, and one of the others is for sure out, I did not like the guy. Still leaning towards the educational guy.

The Marvin window does come in a replacement version, so that's still on track. I would probably prefer a new construction window so I know everything is done right, but that is a can of worms I'm not willing to open right now.

I've also learned that the existing windows are an inch or so too short for the opening, and were likely among the cheapest options when they were installed.

[big_owl]

We replaced every builder grade vinyl window in our house and our front door with Pella.  Just under 60 windows.  Total was about $100k but that was pre covid prices.  I was debating between triple paned vinyl, fiberglass, and metal clad wood windows.   Ultimately I went with the wood option as they looked and felt much more premium.  Ours came painted white so they look like vinyl from a distance but look and feel much nicer being wood.  The exterior side is white clad aluminum.   It's been about ten years and we haven't had an issue on a single window or screen yet.  They also did the install very professionally and we did not have any collateral damage.   Anecdotal, but I am very happy with the pellas. 

[Sibley]

We replaced every builder grade vinyl window in our house and our front door with Pella.  Just under 60 windows.  Total was about $100k but that was pre covid prices.  I was debating between triple paned vinyl, fiberglass, and metal clad wood windows.   Ultimately I went with the wood option as they looked and felt much more premium.  Ours came painted white so they look like vinyl from a distance but look and feel much nicer being wood.  The exterior side is white clad aluminum.   It's been about ten years and we haven't had an issue on a single window or screen yet.  They also did the install very professionally and we did not have any collateral damage.   Anecdotal, but I am very happy with the pellas.

You paid $1700 per window. My quote is $3800 per window - for fiberglass which is cheaper than wood. My next highest quote is $3500 for both windows. I don't care how good their windows are, that's a ripoff.

[big_owl]

We replaced every builder grade vinyl window in our house and our front door with Pella.  Just under 60 windows.  Total was about $100k but that was pre covid prices.  I was debating between triple paned vinyl, fiberglass, and metal clad wood windows.   Ultimately I went with the wood option as they looked and felt much more premium.  Ours came painted white so they look like vinyl from a distance but look and feel much nicer being wood.  The exterior side is white clad aluminum.   It's been about ten years and we haven't had an issue on a single window or screen yet.  They also did the install very professionally and we did not have any collateral damage.   Anecdotal, but I am very happy with the pellas.

You paid $1700 per window. My quote is $3800 per window - for fiberglass which is cheaper than wood. My next highest quote is $3500 for both windows. I don't care how good their windows are, that's a ripoff.

Idk, like I said it was pre covid.   I'm sure it would be 50% higher now.  I also got big discounts for quantity.  Also size matters of course.  I also did inserts and not full window replacements, I'm sure that was cheaper.  Our sills were all in good shape as the house was only about ten years old at that point. 

[big_owl]

We replaced every builder grade vinyl window in our house and our front door with Pella.  Just under 60 windows.  Total was about $100k but that was pre covid prices.  I was debating between triple paned vinyl, fiberglass, and metal clad wood windows.   Ultimately I went with the wood option as they looked and felt much more premium.  Ours came painted white so they look like vinyl from a distance but look and feel much nicer being wood.  The exterior side is white clad aluminum.   It's been about ten years and we haven't had an issue on a single window or screen yet.  They also did the install very professionally and we did not have any collateral damage.   Anecdotal, but I am very happy with the pellas.

You paid $1700 per window. My quote is $3800 per window - for fiberglass which is cheaper than wood. My next highest quote is $3500 for both windows. I don't care how good their windows are, that's a ripoff.

Idk, like I said it was pre covid.   I'm sure it would be 50% higher now.  I also got big discounts for quantity.  Also size matters of course.  I also did inserts and not full window replacements, I'm sure that was cheaper.  Our sills were all in good shape as the house was only about ten years old at that point.

Eeta - I think the fiberglass option was more expensive than the wood iirc. 

[GilesMM]

I've installed hundreds of Milgard vinyl windows, including on multi million dollar ocean front houses, and wouldn't hesitate to recommend them in any situation.
I've installed less Andersens, but more than a hundred.
I don't have experience with any of the other brands you listed.
I would inquire with the outfits selling the windows and those installing the windows as to the post sale support.
One of the best things about Milgard in my area is that there is a nearby manufacturing facility, and they send a guy out to the coast where I work on schedule to deal with any issues. Since they offer a lifetime warranty to the original purchaser they have come out and replaced the glass units due to a blown seal twenty years after install.
So I would look for that kind of support.
One advantage to FG sash is that it's paintable; one advantage to vinyl is that it isn't.

Millard are great windows and we have had them in a couple houses. However, there is a growing chorus of complaints about them being increasingly difficult about honoring warranties, especially in California. They wear customers down by taking months and even years to complete replacements. So check the reviews in your area.


Our current home is mostly oversize sliding glass floor to ceiling windows in heavy duty aluminum frames in all rooms (we have only one traditional window, in the laundry room). Ancient seals were shot so the previous owners had the local glass company replace all the glass and they did a great job.

[Sibley]

I'm learning more about windows. Help me learn more?

I've been told that the Marvin window is a 2-something inch, where most windows are a 3 something inch. Basically thinner frame. Context? Good, bad, dependent?

I've also had a contractor give me a quote (in addition to the Marvin window) for Quaker windows (Quaker AdvantEdge E4 series). Looking online I see mixed reviews. But it is labeled as more efficient than the Marvin window. Considering I have drafts currently, anything that closes properly is going to be an improvement. Is this better than Marvin?

Also, regarding low-E. I'm a little confused about how it works in the winter. If I get a higher low-E rating (more efficient), does that block heat from coming in over winter?

[sonofsven]

I'm learning more about windows. Help me learn more?

I've been told that the Marvin window is a 2-something inch, where most windows are a 3 something inch. Basically thinner frame. Context? Good, bad, dependent?

I've also had a contractor give me a quote (in addition to the Marvin window) for Quaker windows (Quaker AdvantEdge E4 series). Looking online I see mixed reviews. But it is labeled as more efficient than the Marvin window. Considering I have drafts currently, anything that closes properly is going to be an improvement. Is this better than Marvin?

Also, regarding low-E. I'm a little confused about how it works in the winter. If I get a higher low-E rating (more efficient), does that block heat from coming in over winter?

The vinyl windows I normally install are about 3" deep. A thinner window would require  deeper jamb extensions inside, so a deeper interior if you like that look. I don't think it's worth paying more for.
I don't think there would be much difference in real world efficiency, either.
If the Quakers are good quality then go for it. Ask your guy why he likes them. Ask other installers about them. Sometimes an installer will only work with certain brands. Ask the stores that sell them.

In theory, low E should retain more heat in the winter. It is sometimes used with argon gas between the panes as well.
I don't think they would be much different than the non low E windows in the winter, though. In the sumner I think you would notice a difference, though

[RWD]

I'm learning more about windows. Help me learn more?

I've been told that the Marvin window is a 2-something inch, where most windows are a 3 something inch. Basically thinner frame. Context? Good, bad, dependent?

It's basically the difference between fiberglass frame and vinyl. The Milgard frame on our fiberglass windows is very similar to the Marvin.

I've also had a contractor give me a quote (in addition to the Marvin window) for Quaker windows (Quaker AdvantEdge E4 series). Looking online I see mixed reviews. But it is labeled as more efficient than the Marvin window. Considering I have drafts currently, anything that closes properly is going to be an improvement. Is this better than Marvin?

I don't remember running across anything about Quaker when I was doing my research. If they are vinyl then I would expect slightly better air sealing than fiberglass. There is also the possibility that the have a lower SHGC than Marvin. The Anlin vinyl windows I was quoted had the most Low-E coating (and hence lowest SHGC) of all the options (though the salesperson said they were the only brand that had that). Compare actual U-Factor and SHGC numbers to get the true story. "Better" depends on your needs.

Also, regarding low-E. I'm a little confused about how it works in the winter. If I get a higher low-E rating (more efficient), does that block heat from coming in over winter?

Yes, more Low-E coating will reduce the solar heat gain, even in the winter. Because of this in colder climates it is not recommended to get the lowest possible SHGC numbers. For cold climates you would want the U-Factor to be as low as possible as this is effectively your insulation. You can actually convert U-Factor to an R-Value by dividing 1 by the number (e.g. U-Factor of .33 = R-3 level insulation).

[Sibley]

That's helpful, thank you. I'm headed back into the store tomorrow to look at the windows again.

I'm really not loving the reviews I'm seeing online for Quaker. I do plan to ask the guy why he recommends them.

[Sibley]

Decision: going with the Quaker windows. Talking to the guy, he's never installed a Marvin window and I do not want to be the first. (Yes, I'm wishy washy and change my mind up until the point where I make up my mind and order the thing.) He's done a lot of Quaker windows and hasn't had problems, the issues he's had have been extremely minor and easily addressed with the company.

Lead time is 5 weeks out, so we're looking at mid May for install is my guess. Paperwork happening this week. Gotta transfer money from savings for the deposit.

[sonofsven]

That sounds good and I agree with your rationale.
Hope everything goes smoothly.

[Sibley]

Windows got installed today. Installation went well, no nasty surprises from the windows. There was a nasty surprise from the roof but that was unrelated and at least I know about it. (Flat roof has a hole in it, way off to the side so am guessing animal related. Yay I get to spend more money.) I am very pleased with the contractor so far. The guys doing install were polite and competent. Had one issue with the spray insulation breaking through the fresh caulk, they took care of it with no fuss.

I am going to get to find out how the manufacturer is regarding warranty however. One of the squares there's dirt/smudge quite obvious in between the glass panes. Which is awesome to find when you're cleaning your new windows. I am not done cleaning but I did not think to grab the stuff to remove the caulk/adhesive/etc so just did first pass cleaning with regular glass cleaner. It is very nice to be able to close and lock the windows.

Bad picture, sorry.