Author Topic: Nest Learning Thermostat?  (Read 14557 times)

Self-employed-swami

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Nest Learning Thermostat?
« on: January 03, 2013, 02:46:12 AM »
Heya DIYers!  Our thermostat seems to be not working correctly lately (furnace not staying on long enough to bring the temperature up to what it is set at, and it often seems to forget the temperature we have it set at).  We have an older programable one, and I saw an ad for something called the Nest Learning Thermostat tonight, and it looks really neato.

http://www.nest.com/living-with-nest/

Does anyone have one?  I have to check and see if it is compatible with our current furnace, as I'm not home now, but it seems like it might help save us on heating costs, as well as being reasonably priced.

Does anyone know if the app will work on a Canadian iPhone?

Thanks!

Self-employed-swami

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Re: Nest Learning Thermostat?
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2013, 02:48:16 AM »
Ok, I was only finding it for sale in the US (in fahrenheit) but I just found it for sale on Lowes.ca in celsius, so it must work in Canada.

Bill76

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Re: Nest Learning Thermostat?
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2013, 07:29:24 AM »
I'm not so sure about it being reasonably priced.  I just replaced our thermostat, and I thought about the Nest, just because it's a really cool concept, but it was $229 at our local Lowe's.  I spent roughly 1/3 of that on a perfectly serviceable Honeywell model.  I could have spent even less, but I decided wanted to get the same model we have on our upstairs AC unit, just for consistency.

Self-employed-swami

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Re: Nest Learning Thermostat?
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2013, 07:37:49 AM »
Hmmm.  I'm at work, and so I haven't been at the store to look at other options yet.  I just assumed that new thermostats would be a few hundred dollars, but maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.

gecko10x

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Re: Nest Learning Thermostat?
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2013, 07:57:07 AM »
Assuming it's compatible, it's very cool. I've never used competitor products, but the interface is really nice with the mobile/web access and the features that I really like are the auto-away, time-to-temp implementation (so it's up to temp when you want it), and that it accounts for humidity when cooling.

I actually have one for sale... we had it all summer and it worked well, but when heating season came we found out it wasn't compatible with our system. It's basically brand new 1st gen (was a replacement unit while we were trying to figure out why it wasn't working properly). Send me a PM if you're interested.

Jack

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Re: Nest Learning Thermostat?
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2013, 08:05:42 AM »
Hmmm.  I'm at work, and so I haven't been at the store to look at other options yet.  I just assumed that new thermostats would be a few hundred dollars, but maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.

The Nest is the iPhone of thermostats, and is priced accordingly. "Featurephone-level" (to extend the analogy) 5/2 programmable thermostats are 1/10th the price.

Self-employed-swami

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Re: Nest Learning Thermostat?
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2013, 08:06:24 AM »
Hmm. Thanks for the offer.  I won't be home until Monday (I am away for work at the moment) and so I haven't had a chance to check the compatibility for our current furnace. 

I've been looking on homedepot.ca and I saw that there is a Honeywell programmable wifi thermostat for about $160 (so it can be controlled from wherever on a phone/computer) but I think the learning aspect of the Nest one, along with it's simple functions, are what I am drawn to.  I hate trying to program anything (we have a sprinkler system on a timer, and it took us 3 summers to finally get it working as we want it).

I'll have to check the compatibility guide and see if the first gen will work for us.  Is it in fahrenheit, or celsius?  I assume that would just be a setting inside, but you know what they say about assuming things...

;)

gecko10x

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Re: Nest Learning Thermostat?
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2013, 08:24:27 AM »
Is it in fahrenheit, or celsius?  I assume that would just be a setting inside, but you know what they say about assuming things...

;)

You can switch it whenever you want (http://support.nest.com/article/Does-Nest-display-the-temperature-in-Celsius)

gecko10x

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Re: Nest Learning Thermostat?
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2013, 08:27:08 AM »
The Nest is the iPhone of thermostats, and is priced accordingly. "Featurephone-level" (to extend the analogy) 5/2 programmable thermostats are 1/10th the price.

True. And this comparison is even more apt because Nest was started by Tony Fadell, who came from Apple and was the (or one of the) chief designers behind the iPod.

Self-employed-swami

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Re: Nest Learning Thermostat?
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2013, 08:30:13 AM »
I actually just called Nest, to make sure that the Canadian and American versions were the same :)

The woman actually told me that the 1st generations have a 5 year warrantee, while the 2nd gen only have a 2 year.  Makes the 1st gen much more appealing!  gecko10x I'll be in touch when I get home, and have a chance to make sure it will work with our furnace!  Do you have the box, and receipt by chance (for the warrantee?)

Self-employed-swami

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Re: Nest Learning Thermostat?
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2013, 08:30:49 AM »
The Nest is the iPhone of thermostats, and is priced accordingly. "Featurephone-level" (to extend the analogy) 5/2 programmable thermostats are 1/10th the price.

True. And this comparison is even more apt because Nest was started by Tony Fadell, who came from Apple and was the (or one of the) chief designers behind the iPod.

I saw that!  I like simple functionality.

igthebold

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Re: Nest Learning Thermostat?
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2013, 09:43:00 AM »
I have one, but I bought it for geek value more than anything. I'd definitely try to make a normal programmable thermostat work before the Nest.

I'm a programmer, so I spend my time programming things. As such, the learning part of Nest is worse than useless to me, so I have it turned off. I like the humidity readings and some of the other features, but the fact they don't have an API exposed to me is frustrating. I also want to be able to control the A/C and heat based on humidity, not just temperature.

Since this is a DIY forum: http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-your-own-programmable-thermostat-with-Arduino/

:)

Self-employed-swami

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Re: Nest Learning Thermostat?
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2013, 01:25:28 PM »
Interesting point, but because of our cold climate, we don't have A/C, so hopefully that won't be a concern of mine.

meadow lark

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Re: Nest Learning Thermostat?
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2013, 11:25:01 PM »
Followed the instuctables link to the line about "I use mine for hot water baths to cook meet (sic)."  I first read it as "to cook meth."  I thought, "Holy Crap!  I'm gonna learn a skill with this one!"

Self-employed-swami

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Re: Nest Learning Thermostat?
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2013, 02:51:29 AM »
Followed the instuctables link to the line about "I use mine for hot water baths to cook meet (sic)."  I first read it as "to cook meth."  I thought, "Holy Crap!  I'm gonna learn a skill with this one!"


Whaa?  Like one of those boil-in-a-bag meat cooker things that restaurants use?

Daley

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Re: Nest Learning Thermostat?
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2013, 07:37:48 AM »
It's clever, but something about the Nest just seems like overkill. If you want to get creative, have something Nest-like and hack about with things, there's always Android Thermostat.

I'd be tempted myself as a "look what I can do" gearhead hobby project and a way to repurpose the old Intercept if the IOIO board to get it working wasn't $40, and remaining parts cost (not counting the phone) wasn't another $50. $40 already got me a decent programmable thermostat that isn't vulnerable to WiFi attack, and I'm not impressed enough with Android to deploy in anything even remotely mission critical anyway. Also, if you really want a WiFi enabled programmable thermostat, less than that kind of money can also get you the Radio Thermostat CT30, which is nearly as functional and very polished. Other than that, such a deal!

gecko10x

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Re: Nest Learning Thermostat?
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2013, 08:27:32 AM »
Daley, thanks for the link for the CT30; I'd not heard of that one before.

James

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Re: Nest Learning Thermostat?
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2013, 08:58:19 AM »
Also, if you really want a WiFi enabled programmable thermostat, less than that kind of money can also get you the Radio Thermostat CT30, which is nearly as functional and very polished. Other than that, such a deal!

Thanks for the info, at $100 it seems like a lot better deal than the Nest.  I might spend that much for the added functionality if my current controller died.  We often travel in the winter and turn the heat down, it would be really nice not to arrive at 11pm with three tired kids and have them crawl into bed with the house at 55 degrees...  :)

It would also be nice to be able to monitor the home temperature while away.  As MMM pointed out in his recent post, having that information can be valuable.

Daley

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Re: Nest Learning Thermostat?
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2013, 11:25:45 AM »
Actually, I've seen the CT30 on Ebay for as low as $65.

One caveat I just discovered, though. There's apparently been two versions on the market: one with the RTMV-01 USNAP module, and one with the RTWG-01 USNAP module.

RTMV-01 = GOOD
RTWG-01 = BAD!


If I'd known about the hardware change issues, I'd have mentioned something when I first brought it up.

Edit/Update: Did more research on the situation, it appears to mostly be a problem with Amazon sellers and mislabeling/ignorance on the part of those sellers. The RTWG-01 USNAP module is for Z-Wave 900Mhz home automation systems, which is why all the problems. The thermostat was designed to either stand alone, support WiFi, or Z-Wave apparently. So, not a problem with the unit itself, just idiot error somewhere along the line.

These units are available rebranded from several sources, including as the 3M Filtrete model 3M-50 at Home Depot.

gecko10x

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Re: Nest Learning Thermostat?
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2013, 11:34:39 AM »

Edit/Update: Did more research on the situation, it appears to mostly be a problem with Amazon sellers and mislabeling/ignorance on the part of those sellers. The RTWG-01 USNAP module is for Z-Wave 900Mhz home automation systems, which is why all the problems. The thermostat was designed to either stand alone, support WiFi, or Z-Wave apparently. So, not a problem with the unit itself, just idiot error somewhere along the line.


Very useful info that I wasn't able to find myself- thanks!

jwystup

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Re: Nest Learning Thermostat?
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2013, 06:47:53 PM »
This thread is great. I love the idea of the android thermostat, but agree for that much money I can get something that takes no work :\ If I had a 3d printer I'd probably do it just for fun though

We got a new furnace in October, the friend that installed it said we should also get a dual-stage thermostat to take advantage of better efficiency. I would love to get a wifi one just for the geekiness of it. I saw the Filtrete 3m-50 one before and I think that was one of the better-looking ones. I should probably just buy it so we have it when mr furnace friend comes back to finish the ac in the spring (assuming we'll need one or two more wires for the dual-stage and wifi power from what I've read...)

I think I'll always drool over the nest thermostat though, it's so pretty and boyfriend could stop whining about the heat.

Ughh... looking at it further, I remembered that it might be nice to be able to control the humidifier through the thermostat and the ct30 one doesn't have a humidistat function- the ct80 does but at that price I could get the nest :\ I wonder if there are any in the $100 range that could handle that (not necessary, just something that would be cool)

dsteele713

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Re: Nest Learning Thermostat?
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2013, 02:57:33 PM »
I ended up getting the Ecobee over the Nest. They're about the same price, and if you can live with buttons instead of a touchscreen, and you don't have a complicated setup with humidifiers and dehumidifiers, then the Smart Si ($170) does the same thing.

The ecobee doesn't have an automatic learning system; you have to set it manually. However, it has a ton of advanced features such as the ability to control it through your smartphone and through their web interface quick save feature if you're leaving the house for a couple hours and want to save some energy with the touch of a button

madage

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Re: Nest Learning Thermostat?
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2013, 10:33:08 AM »
These units are available rebranded from several sources, including as the 3M Filtrete model 3M-50 at Home Depot.

It appears Home Depot is clearing out the 3M-50. I found three of them on a clearance end cap marked at $69.99. I installed mine last night. The install was easy, though I was alarmed to find out the 24V common wire was connected at the furnace but not to the old thermostat. Glad I didn't poke around too much before cutting the power to the furnace.

Cinder

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Re: Nest Learning Thermostat?
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2013, 05:56:46 PM »
I know everyone would say 'Switch away from your crazy electric heat' but I don't think we get gas to our area.  Are there any remotely programable options for a 240volt double pole electric thermostat?  or is there a way I could get one suggested in this thread and have it control an intermediary double pole electric baseboard heat thermostat?

Spork

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Re: Nest Learning Thermostat?
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2013, 06:15:57 PM »
I know everyone would say 'Switch away from your crazy electric heat' but I don't think we get gas to our area.  Are there any remotely programable options for a 240volt double pole electric thermostat?  or is there a way I could get one suggested in this thread and have it control an intermediary double pole electric baseboard heat thermostat?

Propane?  (Still more expensive than NG.)

Personally I think remotely programmable stuff is totally feature creep and a way to make you want a data plan and a integrated refrigerator and a pony and a dog polisher and a special app that tells you how the weather inside is better than your neighbor's house and.....   I cannot imagine really needing it.  A simple programmable thermostat gets you 99% of what you need.

StarswirlTheMustached

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Re: Nest Learning Thermostat?
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2013, 06:48:43 PM »
I know everyone would say 'Switch away from your crazy electric heat' but I don't think we get gas to our area.  Are there any remotely programable options for a 240volt double pole electric thermostat?  or is there a way I could get one suggested in this thread and have it control an intermediary double pole electric baseboard heat thermostat?

Propane?  (Still more expensive than NG.)

Personally I think remotely programmable stuff is totally feature creep and a way to make you want a data plan and a integrated refrigerator and a pony and a dog polisher and a special app that tells you how the weather inside is better than your neighbor's house and.....   I cannot imagine really needing it.  A simple programmable thermostat gets you 99% of what you need.
Exactly this.
To me, the (admittedly gorgeous) Nest looks like a whole herd of dog polishing ponies.

Cinder

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Re: Nest Learning Thermostat?
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2013, 12:08:59 PM »
I'd be fine if my 'remotely programable' was something that I could just ssh into my router, modify a cron job, and use that to set a temperature profile. 

I need to get more familar/comfortable hacking around with Adrunio boards as a hobby, then tackle some of these bigger projects :)