Need a new dishwasher

[cdgreg]

Well, our dishwasher stopped working and we verified it is the dishwasher, not anything electrical.  I plan to install it myself, as it looks pretty straight forward and simple, but I'm trying to figure out what is worth paying more for, and what is not.  Any advice is greatly appreciated.  Here's what I notice are the big cost factors:
Decibel level: We don't care about this, we run it each night and it's on a different floor in our house
Stainless steel v. plastic tub: This feels like it may be worth upgrading to???
Third shelf: Very shallow shelf up top for flatter items.  This feels like a nice feature assuming it doesn't cut off too much space from the bottom where we generally have very large pots and pans
Cycle "sensing" technology: Claims to sense food remaining on dishes and washes differently.  Seems gimmicky, I'm fine with "Normal Wash"


We really just want something that cleans the dishes, doesn't leak, and lasts for a long time.  It feels like a stainless steel tub may be a worthwhile upgrade, 3rd shelf can go either way and everything else isn't worth paying up for based on our usage.  Any advice on brands to go for or to avoid?  Lowes has some nice sales so we plan to buy tomorrow.  Thanks!

[sonofsven]

Bosch is well regarded, generally.
Have you considered repairing your dishwasher? I only mention that as this is the DIY thread ;-)
Any professional repair person will advise (rightly) to replace rather than repair due to the cost of labor, but a quick Google search of your model and issues might result in a simple repair, or not. I have replaced parts on my dishwasher twice, the last time a new (used, actually) $10 pump from eBay, still going strong.
To your questions:
Get a quiet one.
Yes to ss tub
Yes to third shelf, if you want one. It looks pretty handy to me (I don't have one)
Gimmick? Perhaps, but my understanding of current dw's is that in order to meet modern efficiency standards the old technique of blasting a lot of hot water at the dirty dishes is no longer optimal, and so longer cycles of lower temp water are the new MO.

[cdgreg]

Bosch is well regarded, generally.
Have you considered repairing your dishwasher? I only mention that as this is the DIY thread ;-)
Any professional repair person will advise (rightly) to replace rather than repair due to the cost of labor, but a quick Google search of your model and issues might result in a simple repair, or not. I have replaced parts on my dishwasher twice, the last time a new (used, actually) $10 pump from eBay, still going strong.
To your questions:
Get a quiet one.
Yes to ss tub
Yes to third shelf, if you want one. It looks pretty handy to me (I don't have one)
Gimmick? Perhaps, but my understanding of current dw's is that in order to meet modern efficiency standards the old technique of blasting a lot of hot water at the dirty dishes is no longer optimal, and so longer cycles of lower temp water are the new MO.

You know, that's a great point about fixing it.  I've fixed out stove and fridge multiple times, but for some odd reason the dishwasher fix didn't cross my mind.   I'll dig into that first, it's something electrical since it's causing the breaker to trip repeatedly and we verified the electrical and breaker themselves are fine. 

[UpScaleRetirement]

As a disclaimer, I recently retired as an Engineer for an appliance manufacturer (Whirlpool).  I actually worked in dishwasher engineering. 

Stainless vs Plastic tub - Doesn't really affect cleaning of dishes.  Both work great.  Over time stainless will still look much better.  Plastic tends to discolor and stain.  Still cleans your dishes the same.  Plastic tubs are usually the lower end units.  May not have the nicer features found in higher end models.

Third Shelf (rack) - We just put out a new dishwasher platform in early Spring of 2020 that has third racks that really change what third racks can do.  Most third racks are a shallow tray that can hold some utensils and other small items.  They didn't clean really well because they only received water from the sprayer in the top of the tub.  The third rack on our new platform has sprayers under the third rack that can clean larger items like glasses and bowls.  The third rack is by far my wife's favorite feature.  It really makes loading the dishwasher so much more versatile.  There's 3 different 3rd racks.  KitchenAid has 2 rotating tubes for sprayers.  This is the top of the line 3rd rack.  Whirlpool and Maytag have a single tube that doesn't rotate.  It's a static sprayer.  Still cleans glasses and bowls.  3rd version is a rack that doesn't have any cleaning sprayers.  Not much different from 3rd racks from everyone else (shallow rack).  You give up a little depth on the left side of the 2nd rack to get sprayers under the 3rd rack, but I think the new rack is well worth the trade off. 

Sensing technology - This is a great feature.  Can reduce energy and water usage.

[Artem_F]

the repairs of this kind are more complex because the dishwasher has a "central brain", which reads information from multiple sensors and which switches the heater, the pump, and the valves on and off. So, one can have numerous reasons for malfunctioning - burnt heater, stuck valve, broken wire, oxidized contact, central processor itself, you name it. However, there's a basic onboard diagnostics, which is quite useful - do you have any indicators flashing? If yes then it's not a random signal - the system tries to tell you what's going on. If not, then more information is needed.

[Cranky]

I'd find out what's actually in stock, because buying appliances these days is frustrating.

[Queen Frugal]

I just had a new dishwasher installed on Friday. I tried to fix the old one myself but I didn't get very far and decided I would rather have a new one than pay someone to repair an old troubled one that wasn't energy efficient and didn't clean well anyway and had a cracked face.

I'm a sucker for Bosch. Bought a Bosch 300, which is one step up from their bottom line.  Bosch instructions say not to rinse dishes before loading the dishwasher. Cleans caked on crap very well - vs my other one that required me to hand wash the dishes before washing the dishes in the dishwasher which felt ridiculous and was wasteful.

Bosch manufacturing has apparently been impacted by COVID and so yeah there are shortages. Luckily my local Home Depot had one in stock.

[trygeek]

Personally I have had great luck over about 15 years or so in two different houses with Bosch. The original is in a  rental and it hasn't needed repairs either. They are expensive though. The thing I like about them but it's not an issue for you is the quiet, I have an open floor plan home and when you have a loud dishwasher it's pretty bad.

[lthenderson]

Well, our dishwasher stopped working and we verified it is the dishwasher, not anything electrical.  I plan to install it myself, as it looks pretty straight forward and simple, but I'm trying to figure out what is worth paying more for, and what is not.  Any advice is greatly appreciated.  Here's what I notice are the big cost factors:
Decibel level: We don't care about this, we run it each night and it's on a different floor in our house
Stainless steel v. plastic tub: This feels like it may be worth upgrading to???
Third shelf: Very shallow shelf up top for flatter items.  This feels like a nice feature assuming it doesn't cut off too much space from the bottom where we generally have very large pots and pans
Cycle "sensing" technology: Claims to sense food remaining on dishes and washes differently.  Seems gimmicky, I'm fine with "Normal Wash"

Stainless steel - Really only affects the loudness of the unit. Stainless steel liner models are much louder than their plastic counterparts. But like someone mentioned above, they are easier to keep looking clean but I fail to see why that should matter since we always keep the door to our dishwasher closed unless putting things in it.

Third Shelf - We've had a third shelf and we also have had one with an infinitely changeable height second rack. I much prefer the latter to the former. Things flat enough to use in the shallow third shelf generally collect water on the topside of them and either doesn't dry well or leaves waterspots. We don't have that problem with an adjustable second shelf that we raise and lower as needed.

Cycle "sensing" techology - In my experience this works, but doubles or triples the time it takes to do a load of dishes. Since we don't have enough service for three settings everyday, we have to do a load of dishes between meals at some point, especially on the weekends when kids are home from school. If we were waiting on the sensing technology, we might be delaying meals until the dishes were clean. We almost always just use the normal mode which works well and takes less than an hour. Also, on our previous dishwasher, the sensor stopped working within a year of installation rendering the sensing cycle unusable. The normal mode continued to work the other nine years we had the machine until the new one we bought recently for our kitchen remodel.

Brand - I never recommend a brand and instead recommend one that is sold and repaired locally. Then if something breaks, you are more likely to get it fixed quickly, as in that day, versus a brand in which you have to special order the part and wait three weeks until it is delivered. Also, having worked in the appliance manufacturing sector as an engineer for many many years, there isn't a lot of difference in the electrical components of a machine between brands. They all come from the same two or three suppliers but are just numbered and labeled differently per the appliance manufacturers specs. These are also the parts that break down. The differences between brand manufacturers typically are fit and finish kind of details that usually aren't what break with time. 

[EricEng]

the repairs of this kind are more complex because the dishwasher has a "central brain", which reads information from multiple sensors and which switches the heater, the pump, and the valves on and off. So, one can have numerous reasons for malfunctioning - burnt heater, stuck valve, broken wire, oxidized contact, central processor itself, you name it. However, there's a basic onboard diagnostics, which is quite useful - do you have any indicators flashing? If yes then it's not a random signal - the system tries to tell you what's going on. If not, then more information is needed.

Having just repaired our dishwasher I can say it's not that bad.  Dishwashers are actually simpler than they look.  That central "brain" can be replaced for about $70.  Only other circuity is the User Interface board for about same cost.  Everything else is fairly analog from the central board.  The manual that comes with it usually has trouble codes that you can use with the LEDs on the central board.  They even have troubleshooting flow charts with step by step instructions to identify the broken part.

[zolotiyeruki]

We recently replaced our dishwasher, and I miss the old one.*

Decibel level - Our new dishwasher is a lot quieter than our old one, but it's not something I'd pay money for--the old one was quiet enough.
Stainless vs plastic tub - UpScaleRetirement is right--it's entirely an aesthetic thing
Third shelf - We opted instead for a model that hangs the utensil basket on the door, and therefore has more space on the racks for other dishes.  Take a tape measure with you when looking at dishwashers--some dishwashers have a couple extra inches of rack space than others, and it makes a big difference!
Cycle sensing - We haven't tried this on ours yet, so I have no advice

* (Rant) Our old dishwasher (a Quiet Partner III) could do a heavy cycle in 90 minutes, and got the dishes clean.  Our new dishwasher, on its most effective cycle, take three times as long, and is less effective, due to more stringent water- and energy-use restrictions set in place by the Department of Energy.  The new regulations turned out to be a spectacular own-goal, because we now use considerably *more* water to pre-wash the dishes before loading them into the dishwasher, and when dishes don't get clean, they go back in for another cycle.  And guess what happens if the dishwasher is still running when it's dinner time?  We end up using disposable plates.  Way to ignore the law of unintended consequences, geniuses!

When I'm retired, I think I'll engineer my own dishwasher controller that violates the standards, but ensures I get clean dishes.

[maisymouser]

Not a dishwasher expert here, but our old landlord sprung for a Bosch dishwasher and it was heavenly. Got dishes super clean, super quietly (which I didn't really care about but it was cool how quiet yet effective it was!). Bought a place with some supposedly fancy-ass Samsung one that doesn't wash as well and has special WiFi technology and 46 different cycles that we never, ever use. Based on our experience with several of their appliances, I do not recommend Samsung. If I had to buy a dishwasher I would absolutely go for a nicer Bosch one, even if it were a couple hundred dollars more expensive. I think they make quality items, and I miss not having to pre-wash my dishes in the sink and then re-wash the ones that don't get clean in our new dishwasher.

We have the third rack and use it for sippy cup tops, our good knives, and other little things. I don't think it washes quite as well as on other racks but we do get a good amount of use from it. I have never liked the silverware holders that attach to the door to save space, personally.

[EricEng]

Not a dishwasher expert here, but our old landlord sprung for a Bosch dishwasher and it was heavenly. Got dishes super clean, super quietly (which I didn't really care about but it was cool how quiet yet effective it was!). Bought a place with some supposedly fancy-ass Samsung one that doesn't wash as well and has special WiFi technology and 46 different cycles that we never, ever use. Based on our experience with several of their appliances, I do not recommend Samsung. If I had to buy a dishwasher I would absolutely go for a nicer Bosch one, even if it were a couple hundred dollars more expensive. I think they make quality items, and I miss not having to pre-wash my dishes in the sink and then re-wash the ones that don't get clean in our new dishwasher.

One thing to watch out for on Bosch is most don't have electric dryer.  Most use fan and pop door open to dry.  This doesn't work well for families with small children using lots of plastic plates.  If you don't have plasticware and won't need eletric drying, then Bosch is a really reliable and good machine.

[Cranky]

I LOVE that Bosch doesn’t have the electric drying. You can put plastic anywhere in the dishwasher and it doesn’t melt and it’s just as dry as any other dishwasher.

A regular cycle takes a little longer - 2 hours 9 minutes - but its worth it.

[GizmoTX]

We have had Miele dishwashers with the top cutlery tray since 2007 (multiple houses) & love them.
Bosch is my second choice.
Stainless interior is worth it.

[EricEng]

I LOVE that Bosch doesn’t have the electric drying. You can put plastic anywhere in the dishwasher and it doesn’t melt and it’s just as dry as any other dishwasher.

A regular cycle takes a little longer - 2 hours 9 minutes - but its worth it.

So it works well with plastic plates, cups, and utensils?  That would have been nice to know.  We avoided the Bosch because store rep told us it was bad at drying plastic (same price as other we were looking at, so he wasn't upselling).  Does yours do the door pop out trick or does it manage to dry plastic without opening?

We've never had an issue with plastic melting unless it fell below bottom rack and touched the heating element itself.

[Sunder]

We have had Miele dishwashers with the top cutlery tray since 2007 (multiple houses) & love them.
Bosch is my second choice.
Stainless interior is worth it.

We bought a Miele, we had a very common problem (as in there's heaps of threads on forums complaining about the same issue), so we thought that it would be pretty easy to have Miele fix it. Nope. They wanted a $180 call out fee to confirm it is the same issue, must be their technician, not an approved repairer we chose.
For any other trusted brand, I would have said yes, expecting them to act in good faith. However, in Googling the problem, there were massive rant threads about Miele refusing to honour warranty.

So I asked them how I would know that they weren't going to just pretend it's not the same fault, so they could charge me for both the call out and the repair, but they wouldn't budge.

Ended up taking a punt on just replacing the part. It was something like $20 or $40 and an hour of work. Faultless since.

So, I'm of mixed minds. I've since been told that Miele do a small part of their manufacturing in Germany, and those models are still fine, but others are done elsewhere, and they are crap at a premium price.

Either way, I would NEVER recommend Miele again.

By the way OP, how did you check the breaker. Don't forget modern breakers have a degrading rating. I.e. if the breaker is rated to trip at 20A the first time, the second time it might trip at 19.5, then 19. Then 18.5 etc... so that 20A rated breaker may be tripping eventually at 16A - below normal usage of a dishwasher that has an internal heating element.

[Dave1442397]

I LOVE that Bosch doesn’t have the electric drying. You can put plastic anywhere in the dishwasher and it doesn’t melt and it’s just as dry as any other dishwasher.

A regular cycle takes a little longer - 2 hours 9 minutes - but its worth it.

So it works well with plastic plates, cups, and utensils?  That would have been nice to know.  We avoided the Bosch because store rep told us it was bad at drying plastic (same price as other we were looking at, so he wasn't upselling).  Does yours do the door pop out trick or does it manage to dry plastic without opening?

We've never had an issue with plastic melting unless it fell below bottom rack and touched the heating element itself.

We've had a Bosch unit for ten years now, and it's been great. It doesn't pop the door and/or use a fan to dry dishes. It just cools down over the course of a couple of hours and everything is dry when I open it. There might be a few drops of water caught in the lids of plastic containers, but that's it.

It replaced an old Whirlpool unit from the '90s that sounded like a jet engine spooling up, so the lower decibels were a big plus for me.

[zolotiyeruki]

I LOVE that Bosch doesn’t have the electric drying. You can put plastic anywhere in the dishwasher and it doesn’t melt and it’s just as dry as any other dishwasher.

A regular cycle takes a little longer - 2 hours 9 minutes - but its worth it.

So it works well with plastic plates, cups, and utensils?  That would have been nice to know.  We avoided the Bosch because store rep told us it was bad at drying plastic (same price as other we were looking at, so he wasn't upselling).  Does yours do the door pop out trick or does it manage to dry plastic without opening?

We've never had an issue with plastic melting unless it fell below bottom rack and touched the heating element itself.

We've had a Bosch unit for ten years now, and it's been great. It doesn't pop the door and/or use a fan to dry dishes. It just cools down over the course of a couple of hours and everything is dry when I open it. There might be a few drops of water caught in the lids of plastic containers, but that's it.

It replaced an old Whirlpool unit from the '90s that sounded like a jet engine spooling up, so the lower decibels were a big plus for me.

10 years old mean it's not nearly as restricted on water or electricity usage as today's models, so it's unfortunately not a good point for comparison

[zoro]

So with all my rentals etc I have bought a diswasher a year approx.  I like the cheap ones for rentals. I used to buy them from HD or Lowes, but discovered I can get one from Best Buy for $150. The difference with the slightly more expensive model is sound insulation. So what i do is replace the thin insulation with some R10 fiberglass and it works really well for sound insulation. They have plastic tubs and an element to heat.

For home my wife really liked the Miele third rack for cutlery - and at the time you could only get it on a $2k Miele. So in the end we bought one second hand on ebay -  in the housing crisis people were putting them in tract homes in AZ - after the crash they pulled them out and sold the Miele and no doubt replaced it with the Best Buy one. - so I got one for $400.  I wouldn't recommend as it is temperamental and german. Ive had to replace a few things on it sensors etc. 

I would go back to the Best Buy ones in a heart beat.

[EricEng]

So with all my rentals etc I have bought a diswasher a year approx.  I like the cheap ones for rentals. I used to buy them from HD or Lowes, but discovered I can get one from Best Buy for $150. The difference with the slightly more expensive model is sound insulation.

So what i do is replace the thin insulation with some R10 fiberglass and it works really well for sound insulation.

They have plastic tubs and an element to heat.

I was pondering this myself recently.  Seems like $20 of insulation lets them tack on $300-700 more onto the price.

[Cranky]

I LOVE that Bosch doesn’t have the electric drying. You can put plastic anywhere in the dishwasher and it doesn’t melt and it’s just as dry as any other dishwasher.

A regular cycle takes a little longer - 2 hours 9 minutes - but its worth it.

So it works well with plastic plates, cups, and utensils?  That would have been nice to know.  We avoided the Bosch because store rep told us it was bad at drying plastic (same price as other we were looking at, so he wasn't upselling).  Does yours do the door pop out trick or does it manage to dry plastic without opening?

We've never had an issue with plastic melting unless it fell below bottom rack and touched the heating element itself.

We've had a Bosch unit for ten years now, and it's been great. It doesn't pop the door and/or use a fan to dry dishes. It just cools down over the course of a couple of hours and everything is dry when I open it. There might be a few drops of water caught in the lids of plastic containers, but that's it.

It replaced an old Whirlpool unit from the '90s that sounded like a jet engine spooling up, so the lower decibels were a big plus for me.

10 years old mean it's not nearly as restricted on water or electricity usage as today's models, so it's unfortunately not a good point for comparison

My current Bosch is a couple of years old, and - it’s fine. The dishes are as hot and dry at the end of the cycle as they are in a dishwasher with a heating element at the bottom.

[EricEng]

My current Bosch is a couple of years old, and - it’s fine. The dishes are as hot and dry at the end of the cycle as they are in a dishwasher with a heating element at the bottom.

Strange, I wonder where the heat is coming from.  Store clerk described it as just a fan drying system.  Is it just residual from the hot water?  Usually the water has cooled after being rinsed for hours.

[Cranky]

I dunno, but I open the dishwasher at the end of the cycle and the dishes are hot to the touch.

[roomtempmayo]

We put in a Bosch in November, and so far we've been very happy with it.  We usually run it once a day, at bedtime.  When we open it in the morning everything is clean and generally dry.  If there's any water left, I open the door, pull the bottom rack out, and let it sit while the last of the water evaporates.

My only dislike is that I think I can taste the recommended Finish rinse aid, so we stopped using it.  Water spots aren't all that important to us.

[Sugaree]

We got a Kitchenaid a few months back.  It was in the clearance section of one of the big box stores due to a big ass dent in the front of it.  Fortuitously enough, it was the same exact model I had been considering.  Half price and I could take it home that day?  Yes, please.  So far, I'm happy with it. 

[sonofsven]

We got a Kitchenaid a few months back.  It was in the clearance section of one of the big box stores due to a big ass dent in the front of it.  Fortuitously enough, it was the same exact model I had been considering.  Half price and I could take it home that day?  Yes, please.  So far, I'm happy with it.

If you care, you can replace the front panel easily.

[Sugaree]

We got a Kitchenaid a few months back.  It was in the clearance section of one of the big box stores due to a big ass dent in the front of it.  Fortuitously enough, it was the same exact model I had been considering.  Half price and I could take it home that day?  Yes, please.  So far, I'm happy with it.

If you care, you can replace the front panel easily.

I don't really care.  You can't really see it once it's installed and I can spend $200 better somewhere else.  Like the VTI and SCHB I bought this morning.