Author Topic: Monolithic slab or floating slab for basement?  (Read 625 times)

Jon Bon

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Monolithic slab or floating slab for basement?
« on: April 14, 2021, 11:56:59 AM »
My prints called for 3 separate elements:
Footer
Slab
Wall

My builder wants to do:
Combined Footer and Slab
Wall

Cost is going to be an additional 3k to do it separately.

Does anyone have any experience with this? The architect and the city both said they like to see it done in 3 parts aka the old fashioned way. Saving 3k is nice, but a slab floor that cracks after 2 years would be a massive concern. Builder claims he does it this way all the time.

Please let me know what you think/know!






lthenderson

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Re: Monolithic slab or floating slab for basement?
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2021, 06:47:26 PM »
I've done both many times. Almost all bin foundations we pour on the farm are monolithic slabs with the footer and slab all in one pour. Most buildings we do separately but mostly because there are complexities that make it easier. Sometimes getting the footings deep enough here without the sides of the trench collapsing, messing with under slab insulation and tying everything together is just easier on larger buildings if broken out separately. As I recall, this is simply a small replacement addition and probably has nothing coming up from underneath so I don't see why it can't be done as a monolithic slab.

I don't really see an advantage or disadvantage one way or another other than ease of achieving your overall objective which if the person doing the concrete is going to cut 3K off your bill, I would definitely go that way. Cracking shouldn't be a concern. Either way can crack depending on soil conditions, quality of the cement pour (drier it is poured the better and the slower it cures the better), etc. Almost all foundations crack because they don't have regular relief joints cut into them like say a sidewalk or a driveway. The key is that they have proper reinforcement in them to prevent them from moving in relation to each other. Every room in my full size basement (under a ranch house) has micro cracking. It happens as the concrete cures and shrinks. As long as there is a proper bed underneath the concrete, this shouldn't affect anything especially since if I recall, this will act as a crawlspace floor.
 
If you ever have to tear it out for some odd reason in the future, you aren't going to save much money if at all by pouring the footer separately. The work involved in being careful to not disturb the footer while tearing out massive chunks of concrete would slow down a project such that most would probably just want to tear it all out and repour it.
 
Thinking about this a bit before posting, I should add that I if you do this in two pours, i.e. footer and slab separately, I would end the footers at the bottom of the slab level and pour the slab over the footers so that you have a nice flat surface across the entire slab. Sometimes, people pour footers high up to be part of the wall and then fill in the slab later. I see this a lot in basements and garages, mine included. Going this route is fine but I recommend isolating the slab from the wall/footer with some isolation barrier. This prevents say a settling wall/footer from hooking the slab (if the concrete was poured directly up against the wall/footer) and jacking it around. Whomever poured my garage floor of this house made that mistake and one corner of my garage was built on fill and settled about three inches. It caught the concrete and was essentially using my garage slab as a a giant lever until it broke. From high to low point in my garage when I moved in was about 12 inches of elevation. I ended up jacking up the corner of my garage to adjust for the settling since it was 40 years old at that point and not likely to settle any further. I repoured the garage slab using isolation material and haven't had any problems since.

Jon Bon

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Re: Monolithic slab or floating slab for basement?
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2021, 07:01:02 AM »
Thanks @lthenderson !

So a bit more. My architect pretty much said she would not do prints that have a mono-pour in the basement. Not unless they bring her a structural engineer who will sign off. She is telling me that the footer and slab need to be able to move independently of each other in the basement.

I called the our local city inspector and he really could not give me an answer if it was even allowed. He kind of acted like no one had ever wanted to do a monolithic foot and slab in the basement.

I called the big city inspector as well, we will see what they say.

If I could pay an extra $1500 and get it done this way I likely would. 3k feels a bit steep for a half days worth of extra labor. I think he might be trying to make up for the fact digging the basement cost 5x more than he anticipated.


lthenderson

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Re: Monolithic slab or floating slab for basement?
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2021, 08:23:40 AM »
I think I'm either confusing you with someone else or forgot that you are doing a basement? I was thinking crawlspace with just stub walls up to floor height.

If I was doing a basement, I would separate the slab from the footer/walls for a couple reasons. The first would be to allow for settling to occur without damaging the basement slab. There will be a lot of weight from full height walls that might cause some settling and if tied to a monolithic floor/footer pour with no place to go, this could lead to buckling and cracking. The second reason would be that if you pour walls on top of a slab that forms your basement floor, you will end up with a cold joint at a place where hydrostatic water pressure will be at it's highest and thus prone to leakage.

For basements, the majority I have seen poured have a footer poured below frostline with a single wall poured on top so that the cold joint between footer and wall is below your basement slab depth. The slab is always poured last.

Jon Bon

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Re: Monolithic slab or floating slab for basement?
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2021, 08:55:27 AM »
THANK YOU!

Damn this has been super annoying. Everyone pretty much has said pad and footer need to be separate in a basement.

Builder and I compromised at $1500. So I feel pretty good about spending a few more bucks to make the smart people happy (City/Engineer/architect/lthenderson) Moving forward now, thanks for the assist. (more to come though I'm sure!)

Fishindude

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Re: Monolithic slab or floating slab for basement?
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2021, 01:49:08 PM »
In my opinion, the correct way to build a basement is:
a. Four a strip footing for the walls to set on top of.
b. Form & pour concrete, or lay block walls.
c. Pour the floor slab last, inside the walls, using walls as the outside edge forms.