Author Topic: Metal roofs  (Read 3035 times)

Just Joe

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Metal roofs
« on: July 30, 2020, 01:04:34 PM »
Anyone ever priced a folded seam metal roof? DW and I love the look. Not sure how much more expensive they might be than a typical asphalt shingle roof.

Does it affect the cost of insurance for any reason?

Thanks, just starting to consider this. Not done any homework yet.

Duchess of Stratosphear

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2020, 01:18:44 PM »
When I installed mine 15+ years ago, it was more expensive than shingles, I think. However, I think they are expected to last longer and they may help insurance rates since they are less flammable. Not an expert, but that's what I've heard. They sound nice when it rains.

RobERE

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2020, 02:02:27 PM »
I specified one for a community building. It cost less than a traditional tiled roof. Our architect warned about the noise from rain so specified two layers of plasterboard for the ceiling to attenuate the sound. Still worked out cheaper. Ours was described as 'cold-rolled seamed' if that means anything.

caracarn

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2020, 02:08:11 PM »
I too would consider one when we move into the house we'd retire in.  I have read they last longer and require no maintenance (regarding that I have heard if you paint them that will cause them to start to rust, so get whatever color you want to begin with and do not touch it).  In cold climates the snow does not adhere as well and therefore if you do get a lot and want to pull it down to minimize weight it is easier than a traditional roof and will not have the same damage problem with ice dams etc as no layers to get under.

bacchi

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2020, 02:26:43 PM »
I've had 2 installed. They are more expensive than asphalt.

#1 was put directly on sheathing over a gable attic space. Can't hear the rain more than asphalt.
#2 was put over purlins over 6" rigid foam over an enclosed cathedral ceiling. The rain is loud.

I think the attic space in #1 helps deaden the sound a lot.

There is an insurance decrease due to longevity and inflammability.

lthenderson

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2020, 02:28:40 PM »
They are generally more expensive, up to 2x or 3x the cost of a asphalt roof but it depends a lot on the material and the thickness. There are a list of drawbacks that many don't think about that you should be aware.

Metal roof can be dented and will forever show that dent. The dents can happen from hail, falling branches or stepping in the wrong spot while doing other maintenance on the roof.
Metal roofs are almost impossible to color match down the road should you suffer damage from a fallen tree or decide to expand due to fading and oxidation.
Metal roofs expand and contract significantly so when fastening things like satellite dishes, antennas, lightening rods and the roof panels themselves, one must take that into account. Improper fastening can lead to buckling and creasing of panels.
Any penetrations through the roof generally rely on sealants and adhesives to make them water tight which degrade with time and exposure to sunlight unlike the mechanical sealing one can do with shingles.
Noise, the one everyone seems to know about.

Paper Chaser

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2020, 06:51:21 PM »
Probably quite a bit more expensive than asphalt shingles. Devil is in the details on a standing seam installation. Flashing, sealing, etc are absolutely critical to get right, and it's less forgiving than asphalt shingles. Takes a long time to install as well compared to asphalt.
I can see a DIY approach being feasible for a small, simple roof because it would have fewer tricky spots. But I'd probably pay an expert if the roof is large or has lots of ridges, hips, valleys, etc.

Just Joe

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2020, 10:41:29 AM »
Thank you everyone. I would hire someone to do the work. Currently the roof is not that old but it was not done well before we purchased the house and it is leaking over a porch into the attic.

A piece of plywood will need to be replaced before whatever new roofing we choose goes up.

We were thinking of a silver roof since our house is a farmhouse style. We've seen a couple of houses in our town with similar choices and they look nice.


YttriumNitrate

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2020, 11:02:15 AM »
Back in 2010, the roof on my house needed to be replaced, so I got bids on metal and asphalt roofs. The asphalt roofs were all about $6,000 plus or minus a few hundred dollars for dimensional shingles. The quotes for metal roofs ranged from $10k to over $20k, so be sure to get lots of quotes. Interestingly, the local roofers who mainly do asphalt tended to have the more reasonable prices on metal roofs while state-wide companies that supposedly specialized in metal roofs were more expensive.

At least where I am in Indiana, having a metal roof does affect insurance rates, but in a good way. My premiums dropped about 8% when the new roof went on because hail was no longer a problem.

The metal roof was laid over the old asphalt roof, and I would say the rain was slightly louder with the new roof, but not really all that noticeable. It certainly wasn't like what you hear when it rains on a shed/barn with metal panels only attached to intermittent beams.

One thing I wasn't expecting was that the snow will slide right off the metal roof and into piles right by the foundation. If you get a heavy snow followed by rain there will be a large amount of water put right by the foundation. I ended up having to do some grading to take care of this issue.

Back in the late 90s, my friend's parents put a metal roof on their house with exposed plastic fasteners. They ended up having problems when the plastic washers failed. Putting on a hidden fastener roof will be 5-10% more expensive than one with exposed fasteners, but can save you a lot in the long run.

EDIT: 10 years later, the metal roof still looks as good as the day it was put on.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2020, 11:06:06 AM by YttriumNitrate »

Just Joe

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2020, 11:58:32 AM »
Yeah, plastic never ages well in sunlight and heat. Thanks so much for your insight.

Cranky

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2020, 09:44:45 AM »
My metal roof actually seems quieter than the old roof. We saw the heating bill go dow, too.

BTDretire

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2020, 02:16:04 PM »
 We put on a metal roof after a hurricane, because we saw that metal roofs held up much better than asphalt roofs to the storm.
We don't notice any extra noise from the rain in the house, I have a screened porch that has an unfunished ceiling and yes, there is more noise in there.

Fishindude

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2020, 01:56:49 PM »
A good concealed fastener, standing seam metal roof looks great and is just about the finest roof you can buy.  It will last 50-75 years or more without issue, maybe longer.   However, you will pay probably three times more than you would for a shingle roof, so you either need to plan on staying there a long time to justify the cost, or just like the look and be willing to pay for it.  It will probably improve the resale value some.  It could reduce insurance costs in potential fire areas, ask your insurer.

As some have mentioned, the devil is in the details.   You need good sheet metal craftsmen doing the work to get all of the flashing and penetration details right or it will leak like any other roof.   If these are done correctly, you will never have a problem.   Metal roofs are tougher than shingles, so I wouldn't worry about hail, if you get damaging hail, that's an insurance claim.   Like any roof, it's always best to minimize the penetrations and keep any unnecessary junk (like satellite dishes and solar panels) off the roof altogether.   A steep metal roof can be dangerous to walk on if you ever need to get up there to clean leaves or sticks.

The majority of metal roofs you see are not "concealed fastener, standing seam, metal roofs", they are cheap, thru fastened, ribbed, painted, pole building siding / roofing.    Many of these you see get installed right over the old shingle roofs on furring strips which is a bad idea.   The old shingle roof should be stripped down to the deck, new underlayment installed, then new metal should go right down on the deck.   Deck also needs to be thick enough and of the right material so screws will hold.   

Color fade isn't much of an issue on the good metal products if you buy something with a high quality Kynar painted finish.   In my opinion, plain unfinished galvalume (silver) looks pretty nice too and it's a bit cheaper than painted and will last equally as long.

Just Joe

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2020, 08:50:33 AM »
Yeah that's what we want to do - a plain silver roof. Lots of barn metal on roofs around here. Often installed just as you detailed - furring strips over asphalt.

Our property is expensive enough to benefit from substance upgrades like roof, some added molding details, bathroom and kitchen updates.

Previous owner could have done alot better. I can only guess at why they were sloppy when they made changes. There is a list of details that need TLC. At least the basic structure is solid.

dcheesi

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2020, 08:57:31 AM »
I've had 2 installed. They are more expensive than asphalt.

#1 was put directly on sheathing over a gable attic space. Can't hear the rain more than asphalt.
#2 was put over purlins over 6" rigid foam over an enclosed cathedral ceiling. The rain is loud.

I think the attic space in #1 helps deaden the sound a lot.

There is an insurance decrease due to longevity and inflammability.
*non-flammability

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8mD2hsxrhQ

bacchi

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2020, 09:04:52 AM »
I've had 2 installed. They are more expensive than asphalt.

#1 was put directly on sheathing over a gable attic space. Can't hear the rain more than asphalt.
#2 was put over purlins over 6" rigid foam over an enclosed cathedral ceiling. The rain is loud.

I think the attic space in #1 helps deaden the sound a lot.

There is an insurance decrease due to longevity and inflammability.
*non-flammability

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8mD2hsxrhQ

Damn, thanks.

An etymology explanation: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/inflammable

NaN

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2020, 09:06:46 PM »
We have a standing seam roof. It was probably the main reason we even bought our disaster house a couple years ago. The inside was the disaster (dead raccoon found on top of furnace 3 months later - now that's another story). Anyway, I love our roof. Having just bought a house I am happy that I don't ever have to worry about roof maintenance. We live in an area where we could get hail, but rarely. A lot of other options were flat roof houses, which have to be maintained every year or two!

Just Joe

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2020, 08:39:52 AM »
Thank you NaN.

nereo

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2020, 12:00:48 PM »
I realize this post is now almost 6 years old, but it seems like some sort of forum-malpractice not to link it here:

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/03/24/how-to-install-a-metal-roof/

Just Joe

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2020, 03:21:07 PM »
Oooh! Thank you.

mountainfamily

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2020, 05:07:10 PM »
We paid $25,000 for a metal roof, skylights, gutters, and all new plywood under the roof and it was worth it. Our city is very expensive, and our house has a very large footprint due to its carport. With its low roof angle the only options were torchdown or metal. Torchdown is ugly, inefficient, and was not much cheaper.

I LOVE the metal roof. It's beautiful. Our energy bills and insurance went down. It really transformed our house from dumpy to modern and cool.

We blow it off with a leaf blower every few months, and pressure wash it once per year.

BIG WORD OF CAUTION!!! Metal roofs are quite permanent, so adding a second story, modifying the roof line, adding a skylight, or even adding a vent are all very difficult.  You MUST know where all your vents for future remodels will go. I paid an architect $100 to walk through with me and double check all the locations, as our bathroom fan was in the wrong place and we didn't have a hood in the kitchen, and we didn't have an exhaust fan in our laundry area. Then, I made sure the roofing company knew all these details, and we put blue tape in the house to mark it and they confirmed every vent with me. Unfortunately they put a skylight 10" off center (doh! it looks wonky with our recessed lighting) but they didn't charge me for it.  And you can get solatube skylights with a metal roof. They're great.

Trifle

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2020, 05:05:18 AM »
We just installed a metal roof last fall (the through-fastened kind) and it was a bit less expensive than a shingle roof would have been.  We got quotes for installation from several places, and in every case the installation cost more than the materials.  The materials for our roof (2400 sf) were $3400 for good quality panels, and the quotes we got for installation ranged from $5000 to $9000.   We ended up DIYing the installation and it was very doable -- we had it on in two days.  Way easier than shingling.   

Installing the standing-seam type of metal panels is much different, and we would not have DIYd that.  But we actually preferred the through-fastened kind anyway; it is much easier to remove/replace a panel in the future if you need to.  Standing seam interlocks with hidden fasteners and it's very difficult to remove/replace a panel.  If you decide to go with standing-seam, be sure to check the experience of the installers.  Not every metal roof installer, we found out, has experience with standing-seam.

There was no change to our home owners insurance, FWIW.  I called State Farm about it, and their take is that home insurance is for replacement cost.  Since the new roof didn't affect replacement cost much one way or the other, no change.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2020, 08:46:34 AM »
There was no change to our home owners insurance, FWIW.  I called State Farm about it, and their take is that home insurance is for replacement cost.  Since the new roof didn't affect replacement cost much one way or the other, no change.

Where do you live? While the replacement cost doesn't go down, the the likelihood of needing the replacement due to hail and fire goes down. When I got a discount through State Farm, I also had to sign a waiver that cosmetic damage to the roof (e.g., dimpling from hail) was not covered by the policy.
https://www.statefarm.com/insurance/home-and-property/homeowners/discounts/roofing-materials

Trifle

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2020, 06:14:16 AM »
There was no change to our home owners insurance, FWIW.  I called State Farm about it, and their take is that home insurance is for replacement cost.  Since the new roof didn't affect replacement cost much one way or the other, no change.

Where do you live? While the replacement cost doesn't go down, the the likelihood of needing the replacement due to hail and fire goes down. When I got a discount through State Farm, I also had to sign a waiver that cosmetic damage to the roof (e.g., dimpling from hail) was not covered by the policy.
https://www.statefarm.com/insurance/home-and-property/homeowners/discounts/roofing-materials

Thank you so much for this @YttriumNitrate !  I will look into this more.  We're in North Carolina.  No hail here to speak of, but I assume the fire issue is pretty much the same wherever you live?  Hmmm . . .

dezfreeze

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2020, 09:20:54 AM »
I would go standing seam- coated for reflecting sunlight.  I am in NC also, went standing seam about 8 years ago.  Saw a measurable decrease in AC usage during the summer (reflects more sunlight back).  I can't remember what gauge we went with, but it affects the price and resistance to hail/dents.  That being said, I don't have any dents after several hail storms and neighbors getting shingles replaced as a result.  Ended up being about double the cost of a shingle roof.  Should last all of 50 years- and I don't wash mine or do anything to it.  I did get solar panels about a year ago, and they had to do some penetrations to the roof for that, hoping I don't regret that later.  Watch out for the snow- I didn't get snow guards and had to eventually redo my gutters after a few decent snows slid off the roof and ripped off the gutters (not ran very well to accommodate snow slid-off).  I also didn't get any home insurance discount.

Fishindude

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2020, 07:37:59 AM »
I did get solar panels about a year ago, and they had to do some penetrations to the roof for that, hoping I don't regret that later. 

They make non-penetrating fasteners to mount things to standing seam roofs via clipping them to the vertical ribs.
Look up S-5 metal roof fasteners.

lthenderson

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2020, 03:12:30 PM »
I did get solar panels about a year ago, and they had to do some penetrations to the roof for that, hoping I don't regret that later. 

They make non-penetrating fasteners to mount things to standing seam roofs via clipping them to the vertical ribs.
Look up S-5 metal roof fasteners.

I haven't seen one in person but I saw it in an article once they make a solar panel mounting system with no connections to the roof at all, including tile roofs. It is essentially an upside down 'V' where the angle of the V matches your roof slopes on either side of the peak. It straddles the peak and one leg goes down each side of your roof. You can put panels on both sides of the peak or on one side with ballast on the other. Because of the shape, wind is not supposed to be an issue and will only cause it to cinch down tighter to the roof. Personally, I think I would be leery if I lived in hurricane country. Also, I've wondered how they perform with moss, leaves and debris since the panels hug the roof surface instead of sitting up above and letting air pass underneath. I just imagine debris building up over time and just acting like a giant sponge between the panel and the surface and perhaps degrading the roofing surface prematurely because it is always wet.

dezfreeze

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2020, 06:19:05 AM »
Yes, they were supposed to use the s-5 fasteners.  Apparently there was something about my seam that did not allow them to fit well, and they were concerned with wind uplift, we do occasionally get hurricane force winds.  If it leaks in the next 10 years, they get to come fix it under warranty

bigblock440

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2020, 08:48:49 AM »
Has anybody experienced a loss of cell signal after adding a metal roof?  I haven't ever seen that brought up, but I'd think putting a faraday cage over your house would have some affect on it.

nereo

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2020, 09:26:55 AM »
Has anybody experienced a loss of cell signal after adding a metal roof?  I haven't ever seen that brought up, but I'd think putting a faraday cage over your house would have some affect on it.

Definitely not a faraday cage as the metal does not extent down to the ground. 

No, I did not notice any drop-off in cell strength when we replaced our roof with a metal one, though it probably depends a good deal on the design of your home, it's relation to nearby cell tower(s) and where you are standing within your house. As the local cell tower (relative to our house) is basically at a straight out from us and not above us  the cell signals go primarily through the walls anyway, and not through the roof.  Just guessing here but I imagine even a standard asphalt roof is a big barrier to cell signal anyway, as you've got shingles, 3/4" plywood, trusses, two feet of insulation, joists, and then drywall all standing between you and the outside.

Regardless, you can buy a whole-home cell signal booster for under $200 off Amazon if you find cellular reception within your home to be spotty, and/or you can piggyback on your home's WiFI.  In other words, it's not a problem worth worrying about as there are cheap fixes in the unlikely event that it causes a problem.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2020, 09:39:06 AM »
Has anybody experienced a loss of cell signal after adding a metal roof?  I haven't ever seen that brought up, but I'd think putting a faraday cage over your house would have some affect on it.

I did, but that's probably because the house also had aluminum siding.

robartsd

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2020, 03:48:18 PM »
Thank you so much for this @YttriumNitrate !  I will look into this more.  We're in North Carolina.  No hail here to speak of, but I assume the fire issue is pretty much the same wherever you live?  Hmmm . . .
The fire risk the metal roof would be most helpful for would be preventing firebrands from a nearby wildfire that fall on your roof from igniting your house. If your risk of nearby wildfire is low, there is no risk to mitigate. If your home's immediate surroundings provide other ways for the fire to reach your home, the roof alone would be ineffective at mitigating the risk.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2020, 07:12:39 AM »
WRT fire danger, there's another factor that hasn't been discussed--if your house catches on fire, the firefighters can't cut a hole in your roof to get water in from the top.  Someone in my brother's neighborhood lost their house because of this, although I'm not sure how much could have been saved had the firefighters been able to douse it from the top.  I imagine if it's that bad, it's a total loss already...

ctuser1

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2020, 08:41:59 AM »
I've been chronicling the work we are doing on my semi-fixer-upper (livable, but lots of small maintenance deferred by previous owners) house in this thread:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/real-estate-and-landlording/my-house-needs-some-work-how-would-you-prioritize-differently/


I considered metal roofs but decided against it after doing some number crunching.

Metal roofs were 2X to 3X more expensive. That opportunity cost seemed too high to me. If I take the difference and invest in VTI, it will likely pay for Ashphalt installations every 25 years in perpetuity.


Zap

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #34 on: September 14, 2020, 08:58:17 AM »


WRT fire danger, there's another factor that hasn't been discussed--if your house catches on fire, the firefighters can't cut a hole in your roof to get water in from the top.  Someone in my brother's neighborhood lost their house because of this, although I'm not sure how much could have been saved had the firefighters been able to douse it from the top.  I imagine if it's that bad, it's a total loss already...

This will depend on the fire department. Even volunteer departments around here have quickie saws on their rigs along with chain saws to ventilate roofs.

nereo

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #35 on: September 14, 2020, 10:04:58 AM »
WRT fire danger, there's another factor that hasn't been discussed--if your house catches on fire, the firefighters can't cut a hole in your roof to get water in from the top.  Someone in my brother's neighborhood lost their house because of this, although I'm not sure how much could have been saved had the firefighters been able to douse it from the top.  I imagine if it's that bad, it's a total loss already...

So I recently had a conversation about this very thing with my buddy who is a Captain of the local FD.  He said that with regard to fires he’s heard two concerns - that firefighters can’t cut holes in the roofs and they won’t walk on metal roofs during a fire. 

His take is that - while both concerns are largely true - in practice it rarely matters.   Whenever there’s a structure fire they pump literally thousands of gallons into the home in the span of 15-20 minutes. Their goal is to put the fire out in case there’s anyone inside and to prevent it from spreading... it’s a foregone conclusion that the structure itself is a total write-off.  The water destroys basically everything inside regardless of whether they cut a hole in the roof or not.  Best case scenario after such a fire is you can rip everything down to bare studs, toss everything into the dumpster but keep the shell of a building... though generally it’s a complete tear-down; whatever the fire didn’t destroy the water did.

Tl;dr - if you’ve got a fire large enough that the FD is unrolling their hoses, your home is pretty much shot regardless of your roof type.  Metal roofs can prevent you from getting to that point in some circumstances (e.g. wildfires).

lthenderson

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #36 on: September 14, 2020, 12:39:09 PM »
My brother is a hotshot that has been out west several times this year already to fight wildfires. According to him, the vast majority of houses go up in flames because the deck attached to it catches fire, not because an ember lit the roof on fire. That is why when they are in a neighborhood with the task of "saving" homes, the first jobs are to cut down nearby trees and to cut decks off from the house.  He says they always get a lot of hate mail after a fire when the homeowner whose house is still standing returns to find his deck has been cleaved off with a chainsaw and pushed down the mountain.

robartsd

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #37 on: September 14, 2020, 12:56:30 PM »
My brother is a hotshot that has been out west several times this year already to fight wildfires. According to him, the vast majority of houses go up in flames because the deck attached to it catches fire, not because an ember lit the roof on fire. That is why when they are in a neighborhood with the task of "saving" homes, the first jobs are to cut down nearby trees and to cut decks off from the house.  He says they always get a lot of hate mail after a fire when the homeowner whose house is still standing returns to find his deck has been cleaved off with a chainsaw and pushed down the mountain.
Yes, even asphalt shingle roofs don't ignite nearly as easily as most decks and shrubs that people often have directly next to their walls. Even if the walls themselves are finished with a non-flammable material, with sufficient fuel adjacent to the wall the heat can cause combustion of the wall framing and thus spread the fire to the interior of the house. Best to have non-flammable decks surfaces, non-flammable exterior wall finishes, not-flammable roofing, and keep plants taller than a few inches away.

Cranky

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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2020, 09:28:46 AM »
So, our next door neighbors' house caught fire this summer (electrical) and burned pretty spectacularly. The firemen did not knock holes in the roof because by the time they got there, flames were shooting out of the roof. (And the fire dept. was called promptly and is mere blocks away.)

The remediation company took everything out of the house, and then the neighbors decided that they might as well expand the house as long as they were at it, so the whole second story was removed and rebuilt. It's been very noisy.

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  • Bristles
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Re: Metal roofs
« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2020, 08:30:59 AM »
My brother is a hotshot that has been out west several times this year already to fight wildfires. According to him, the vast majority of houses go up in flames because the deck attached to it catches fire, not because an ember lit the roof on fire. That is why when they are in a neighborhood with the task of "saving" homes, the first jobs are to cut down nearby trees and to cut decks off from the house.  He says they always get a lot of hate mail after a fire when the homeowner whose house is still standing returns to find his deck has been cleaved off with a chainsaw and pushed down the mountain.

Now that's an interesting story/perspective.

 

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