Maintenance for a MMM car

[Milspecstache]

For a MMM car that is rarely driven when do you do oil changes?  I've been doing 3k mile oil changes (5k for synthetic) for years but sometimes that still falls once a year.  Do any of you change oil more often than the mileage?

Tires is another question.  My tires are almost 8 years old and are showing small cracks already.  Do you replace them based on age?  Is there a way to prolong the life of the tires?  Or should I try and buy replacements that already have mileage on them (to ensure that the rubber lifespan expires at the same time as they wear out)?

[Spork]

I do 7500 on synthetic oil (and higher dollar Wix filters).  With synthetic, you're only changing to make it clean, not for any sort of oil breakdown.

In general, the life of tires is about 8 years.  (Sorry).  Cracks in the sidewalls is a symptom of this.  If you only drive in the city and you're not overly worried about a possible blow out at speed...  Maybe stretch them a little.  But know you're on borrowed time.

[Greg]

At 8 years old your tires have reached their life expectancy.  Most reputable tire shops will not remount or even repair a puncture on a tire that old.  I would follow your car's manufacturer's recommended interval for oil changes, with a minimum of at least once a year.  Best is to make sure you get in a few long drives so that the oil can get hot enough to boil off water and other contaminants.  Short trips are really hard on cars.

[eil]

Every time someone asks the Internet for advice on what kind of oil to use in their car, or how often to change it, God kills a kitten. Dig out your owner's manual, read the section that says "Periodic Maintenance," and do whatever it says. Please, think of the kittens.

As for the tires... if it were me, I would make sure my spare tire was good and then just keep driving on the old tires. At 8 years old, they're not in the prime of their life but you can still probably get quite a bit more out of them.

* Make sure it's really a good spare. Just because it seemed like it still held air last summer doesn't mean it has air in it now.

[BlueMR2]

At 8 years old your tires have reached their life expectancy.  Most reputable tire shops will not remount or even repair a puncture on a tire that old.  I would follow your car's manufacturer's recommended interval for oil changes, with a minimum of at least once a year.  Best is to make sure you get in a few long drives so that the oil can get hot enough to boil off water and other contaminants.  Short trips are really hard on cars.

Manufacturer's recommendations are wise for oil changes in my opinion.  Especially for those harsh short trips.  It's hard to see if you're actually doing damage or not until it's suddenly very expensive.

Tires, I *somewhat* disagree with the above.  8 years is more than most people will get under harsh circumstances (lots of heat cycles, exposure to UV & heat), but if you've got a car that's largely garaged/protected from the elements my experience is that quality tires (you get what you pay for with tires, don't expect much from $99 for 4 tire offers) can easily go longer.  I've got a set of 12 year old tires now on one car (almost at the wear bars, expect to replace them by the end of Summer) and just recently replaced 13 year old tires on another car (down to wear bars, light cracking on the outside by the tread line, internally looked pretty much new, no rot).  OTOH, my Mom had a set of tires disintegrate at 3 years old with tons of tread left.  :-)

Vehicle type can also alter your risk.  I drive small, light, low sportscars.  I've had flats while in motion before (including one explosive event where a whole tread block departed the tire while in a corner).  Other than some wiggling as I recovered from the explosive failure, losing a tire is not terribly exciting.  I'm able to pull over and throw on a spare (or worst case call a tow truck) pretty easily.  If I drove an SUV / pickup / large hatchback (like Honda CRV) I'd be a bit more concerned.  Those are a *much* higher rollover risk in the event of a tire failure, and rollover events largely do not end well for anyone involved...

Tire shops do have a lot of incentive to sell you new tires, and risk does increase with age as they don't know the conditions of your car.  Locally, it's hard to get a shop to patch *any* tire anymore...

[Milspecstache]

Locally, it's hard to get a shop to patch *any* tire anymore...

I must live in the boonies as my local shops have always both plugged and patched the tires, no matter how old, when I pick up a nail/key/etc.

[Thegoblinchief]

I judge oil based on the color. If you want to be more scientific, there used to be places that would test your oil for you.

On the tires, it's hard to say without seeing it in person.

[gecko10x]

+1 for reading your manual.

IMO, you are playing with fire using tires that old. Anything over 6yrs is potentially dangerous; do some google searching, then get some new tires.

[S0VERE1GN]

if the car is newer (05 ish and newer) then the oil can be changed (as long as its synthetic) when the mileage gets to where it needs to be for a recommended change. the new oil pump technology is sweet like that.

dry rotted tires are bad. change your tires if they show dry rot. don't be afraid to over spray some spray wax on the tires it helps a little. (source: no science whatsoever except the tires on my '83 that are really old and kind of still good)

[Nords]

For a MMM car that is rarely driven when do you do oil changes?  I've been doing 3k mile oil changes (5k for synthetic) for years but sometimes that still falls once a year.  Do any of you change oil more often than the mileage?
Tires is another question.  My tires are almost 8 years old and are showing small cracks already.  Do you replace them based on age?  Is there a way to prolong the life of the tires?  Or should I try and buy replacements that already have mileage on them (to ensure that the rubber lifespan expires at the same time as they wear out)?

My spouse hardly drives her Prius-- 1500 miles last year.  She just finished her second tank of gas in 2014 and I'm beginning to wonder if I need to add fuel stabilizer to the tank.

So here's my advice:

• Screw the maintenance recommendations in the owner's manual... unless you're driving your car like the "average" car in the owner's manual.  Its maintenance advice is probably outdated.  If you own a vehicle like mine, the owner's manual might be the oldest book in the house.
• Try to remember to change the oil once a year.  It still looks good when it comes out of the drain pan, but it's probably sucked up as much of the engine's contaminants as it can hold.  Since you're only investing this labor once a year, then it's probably worth buying at least a mid-quality filter & oil.
• Tires are considered "oxidized" and "old" when they reach six years of age.  This especially true for vehicles stored outdoors where UV radiation can get at the tires.  If you drive them much past that age, they'll start to leak more air and get more punctures.  You also raise your chance of a catastrophic blowout from "infinitesimal" to "microscopic".  Having said that, I've routinely driven on tires up to 10 years old as fast as 70 MPH for brief distances, and 55 MPH for longer distances.  Good luck, you might need it!
• If you're going to buy tires, you're probably going to have to pay someone to mount/balance them.  In that case it's worth buying new tires that will last longer.
• It's worth putting some sort of windshield-washer detergent into that reservoir, even if it's just a half-cup of an ammonia-based glass cleaner like Windex.  This helps keep down the possibility of minerals, mold, and insects in the windshield-washer pump and lines.  I don't want to get into how I know that.
• Seek professional help:  ask this question on a forum dedicated to your vehicle.  (Like PriusChat.com.)  They'll have extremely detailed advice on what you can ignore... and what you shouldn't.

[/list]

[Thegoblinchief]

@Nords - I'd probably be putting stabilizer in. Gas gets stale in about 4-6 weeks.

Alternately, when I fill up my van, I only fill it halfway. That way I burn it up in a month.

[BlueMR2]

@Nords - I'd probably be putting stabilizer in. Gas gets stale in about 4-6 weeks.

Alternately, when I fill up my van, I only fill it halfway. That way I burn it up in a month.

I don't think that's good advice. 

One of my friends was a chemical engineer for a gas company and he said that gas is stable for 3-5 years.  Even if it spends a year or 2 in a tank somewhere, that's still plenty of time left on it for sitting in your car.  I'm driving my Eclipse around now with a tank of gas I put into it middle of last Summer.  I found a gas can with gas 4 years old in the shed and put it into my car which only had 2 gallons in it at the time with no issues.  I can go on and on with all my fellow racers that put gas in their cars every year or 2 and just don't have any issues at all.  I've never met anyone that's actually had a problem with gas being old from sitting.

Only half filling the tank is about the worst thing you can do.  It means that you *always* (vs part of the time for people completely fill the tank) have lots of nice empty space for condensation to form and damage the tank and get contaminants into the gas (eventually fouling your fuel filter).

[Argyle]

Tires only last eight years?  I'm not very car-knowledgeable so I'd never heard that.  Two of my tires are 9 years old and the other two are at least 12 years old -- anyway they were already on the car when I got it, and that was 12 years ago.  And they might even be original, so 18 years old.  Huh.  Guess I should look at them.  Just put some air in them (once every five years, whether they need it or not) and they looked okay, but I didn't know they were supposed to be superannuated.

[Thegoblinchief]

@Nords - I'd probably be putting stabilizer in. Gas gets stale in about 4-6 weeks.

Alternately, when I fill up my van, I only fill it halfway. That way I burn it up in a month.

I don't think that's good advice. 

One of my friends was a chemical engineer for a gas company and he said that gas is stable for 3-5 years.  Even if it spends a year or 2 in a tank somewhere, that's still plenty of time left on it for sitting in your car.  I'm driving my Eclipse around now with a tank of gas I put into it middle of last Summer.  I found a gas can with gas 4 years old in the shed and put it into my car which only had 2 gallons in it at the time with no issues.  I can go on and on with all my fellow racers that put gas in their cars every year or 2 and just don't have any issues at all.  I've never met anyone that's actually had a problem with gas being old from sitting.

Good to know! I'd obviously learned it wrong :)

[Nords]

@Nords - I'd probably be putting stabilizer in. Gas gets stale in about 4-6 weeks.

Alternately, when I fill up my van, I only fill it halfway. That way I burn it up in a month.

I can't tell that "stale gas" is causing any problems. 

I fill the tank all the way up because otherwise I'd have to fill it twice as many times...

Tires only last eight years?  I'm not very car-knowledgeable so I'd never heard that.  Two of my tires are 9 years old and the other two are at least 12 years old -- anyway they were already on the car when I got it, and that was 12 years ago.  And they might even be original, so 18 years old.  Huh.  Guess I should look at them.  Just put some air in them (once every five years, whether they need it or not) and they looked okay, but I didn't know they were supposed to be superannuated.

Tire age is a big deal on RV forums, where the tires are heavily loaded and sit for weeks between RV trips.  Apparently the stabilizers in the tire material are most effective when the tires are regularly used (moving and heated) yet the tires still lose their ductility at around the six-year point.  The brittle fracture points are the sidewalls, not so much the treads.

But again, our tires don't get much use on Oahu's roads, and our gas tanks certainly don't see much condensation.

[zolotiyeruki]

Locally, it's hard to get a shop to patch *any* tire anymore...

Actually, repairing your own puncture is pretty easy.

A year and a half ago, we were visiting my in-laws, and as we were about to leave (at 7 pm on a Friday night) we discovered a puncture in one of our tires.  After trying to find a place that was open, we stopped by Autozone.  $10 later, we had a tire repair kit, and 20 minutes later, we were on the road (thank goodness the puncture was in the tread.  Upon arriving home (1100 miles later), I took the van to the tire place, and they basically said "If it's lasted this long, nothing we do will be better."  A year and a half (and a few cross-country trips) later, that tire is still on the van, holding strong.

[dragoncar]

An a related note: at what point, if any, should I actually pay for a thorough inspection?  I have a relatively low-mileage car that is getting a bit old (turned 11 this year, about 70k miles), and I know some stuff wears out based purely on age -- plastics, rubbers, etc.  Some items can be fixed in reactionary mode -- e.g., the brakes or tires wear out, replace them.  But should I be getting someone with a lift to go check out my CV boots (or whatever... I really don' t know what needs to be inspected)?  At 15 years?  20 years?  Never?

[Greg]

Yes and no.  Follow the inspection/maintenance schedule in your owner's manual. Mostly these checks are simply looking at things, like the CV boots.  For them you look for rips/tears/splits/holes in the bellows shaped boot, or other signs that grease is leaking out or dirt getting in. 

Many times these are included in oil changes or other simple services at the corner oil change place or wherever you get other service done.  But, then you're relying on their free/included service that is often something they do only to sell you additional work.  The same could be said for a garage, but some would do a thorough inspection for a fee.

Since I do my own work I do this fairly often, but I would recommend you look your car over yourself at least yearly for anything that doesn't look right.  Then you can either get a professional opinion or investigate further on your own.

[dragoncar]

Yes and no.  Follow the inspection/maintenance schedule in your owner's manual. Mostly these checks are simply looking at things, like the CV boots.  For them you look for rips/tears/splits/holes in the bellows shaped boot, or other signs that grease is leaking out or dirt getting in. 

Many times these are included in oil changes or other simple services at the corner oil change place or wherever you get other service done.  But, then you're relying on their free/included service that is often something they do only to sell you additional work.  The same could be said for a garage, but some would do a thorough inspection for a fee.

Since I do my own work I do this fairly often, but I would recommend you look your car over yourself at least yearly for anything that doesn't look right.  Then you can either get a professional opinion or investigate further on your own.

I do this, I just worry I won't know what to look for, or there are areas that need deeper inspection (removal of parts?)

[BlueMR2]

Locally, it's hard to get a shop to patch *any* tire anymore...

Actually, repairing your own puncture is pretty easy.

I don't know how I'd do it without a tire machine?  I've taken tires off the wheels (for scrap when worn out) with crowbars before and it tears the tires up.  If you put the patches on the outside, with the rope going into the tire, you're doing it wrong.  The correct repair is to push the rope portion through from the inside and then seal the patch portion inside the tire.

[Rural]

Locally, it's hard to get a shop to patch *any* tire anymore...

Actually, repairing your own puncture is pretty easy.

I don't know how I'd do it without a tire machine?  I've taken tires off the wheels (for scrap when worn out) with crowbars before and it tears the tires up.  If you put the patches on the outside, with the rope going into the tire, you're doing it wrong.  The correct repair is to push the rope portion through from the inside and then seal the patch portion inside the tire.

Maybe that's the correct way in someone's view, but it's never mattered to the 10-12 tires we've repaired, still mounted, over the years. Every one held until the tread wore down, though I'll admit there's one still in the experiment stage on the Jeep, plugged ~3 years ago. What you can't repair is a puncture in the sidewall, but the shops can't repair that, either. That requires replacement.

[Argyle]

So after reading this thread, I went out and looked at my older tires -- whaddaya know, almost no tread.  So I went and bought two new tires.  Strangely the tire place didn't try to get me to replace the two newer tires as well.  I guess that's because the tread is like-new and they thought that must mean they were newer tires.  I believe they're 6-8 years old.  I hadn't yet read the part of the thread that said that using tires over 6 years old was like taking your life into your hands.  Are you all telling me I need to go out and get the "new" tires replaced too?

[Spork]

Locally, it's hard to get a shop to patch *any* tire anymore...

Actually, repairing your own puncture is pretty easy.

I don't know how I'd do it without a tire machine?  I've taken tires off the wheels (for scrap when worn out) with crowbars before and it tears the tires up.  If you put the patches on the outside, with the rope going into the tire, you're doing it wrong.  The correct repair is to push the rope portion through from the inside and then seal the patch portion inside the tire.

This must be a regional thing.  Around here tire stores aggressively do this sort of thing for free.  THEY WANT YOU TO LIKE THEM REALLY BAD.

[avongil]

It's called "dry rot".  Google it and check reputable do it yourself sites for sound advice.  I get worried after 4-5 years, since cracks start to show.  I have instantly shredded a tire once due to dry rot. It's dangerous - luckily I was not on the highway.  I'm all about being cheap and buying jalopies, but tires need to be replaced as soon as dry rot is detected.

As for oil changes, there is no need to change oil frequently when using synthetic. The only real way to know is to do an oil analysis.   I change my oil every 10 -  15K miles depending on how it looks and feels. Turbo cars 5-10K.   At 3K miles in a modern engine with synthetic oil, it is practically brand new - you are just wasting money.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/what-is-oil-analysis.php


My advice would be to use synthetic, change every 15K (check your manual) and use the saving to purchase new tires every 4 - 8 years depending on how they look and feel. 

[BlueMR2]

What you can't repair is a puncture in the sidewall, but the shops can't repair that, either. That requires replacement.

What's funny is that I had a tire with a sidewall puncture that a shop *did* repair back around 2001 or 2002.  :-)  Just replaced that set of tires in 2011/2012 I believe after it started slowly losing air from that sidewall patch...

I think we're learning in this thread is that shops are entirely random in what they will/will not do.  :-)

[BlueMR2]

This must be a regional thing.  Around here tire stores aggressively do this sort of thing for free.  THEY WANT YOU TO LIKE THEM REALLY BAD.

Indeed.  $25 is the going rate around here.

[zolotiyeruki]

I don't know how I'd do it without a tire machine?  I've taken tires off the wheels (for scrap when worn out) with crowbars before and it tears the tires up.  If you put the patches on the outside, with the rope going into the tire, you're doing it wrong.  The correct repair is to push the rope portion through from the inside and then seal the patch portion inside the tire.

This is the kit I used--just ream out the hole, slather up the rubber rope with rubber, insert it with the split needle, and inflate the tire back up.  True, a tire repair place will also place a patch on the inside, which does provide additional protection, but if it's held up for several thousand miles since, I'm not too worried about it failing.

[D312]

A little reading to assist anyone wondering how old their tires really are:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=11