Landscaping Question

[cn1ght]

Hopefully this is not the incorrect place for the question.

I currently live in an apartment and originally planned on never owning a home.  Some of the reasons are that I hate yard work, I do not want to deal with roofing every 10 years, and I do not want super high utility bills.  I am slowly gathering information which suggests that there are ways around these.  Example, utility bills for a friend of mine who owns a house are not much more than mine were in my previous apartment.  Roofing problems can be prevented via metal roof, learned via a post by MMM.

The next obstacle I can think of is that I hate mowing the lawn, weeding, etc.  I did it for more than 20 years at my parent's house before I moved out and I hate it.  I also, obviously, am not about to pay someone else to do it for me.  Are there options for what I can do with a front yard and backyard so that I can never deal with it again?  Maybe a plant other than grass such as "baby tears" which I think does not grow too long?  I had originally thought I could try a moss of some sort, but I was told that always looks terrible and I would rather not get in trouble with authorities, neighbors, and just personal preference of looking good.

[deborah]

Concrete your yard - and hire it out for rollerblading!

I used to live in inner Melbourne, and a Greek neighbour did this (not the rollerblading part though).

In Australia, where most of the population lives we recently went through an 8 year drought, and many people have stopped having a lawn. It is replaced with woodchips, artificial grass (some looks quite good), pebbles or just a large number of plants of various heights (including native grasses). In the US you could probably do some sort of dense groundcover that weeds don't grow into (angels tears I think may not grow densely enough). Depending upon the groundcover, you could grow some bigger things like trees, cacti, yuccas - things that don't grow very quickly in your area (because then you would be trimming them all the time), but give dimension to the yard. In the back yard you could go for some sort of paving - like what they use on playgrounds, with a bbq area and playground equipment, with the other stuff as per the front.

[totoro]

We put down cardboard and covered it with cedar chips.  We installed automatic watering and a loads of plants based on a landscape plan.  Each year you add more cedar chips but it looks very nice and is relatively low maintenance. 

[Goldielocks]

Look for a home with a very small lot -- as in under 4500 sq.ft.   The smaller, the easier to maintain.  Mowing is easy then, if you can not get away from it.
Nativescaping (grass free) just looks like an extra large front bed on a tiny yard and is also nice.  Backyard is one patio with a big shrubbery around it.

Next,   go for the landscape fabric with lots of wood chips, or rocks, or whatever ontop of it on the ground, with your shrubs / trees planted nicely throughout.  No perennials or self-seeding items or things that grow and act as ground cover. Only woody plants.  This way, you have no exposed dirt and weeding is almost gone.

Use flower pots for flowers.

Better yet, get a townhouse.


oh -- and asphalt roofs last 20-30 years, depending on the quality / type you buy.  10 years is pretty short for any roof system except maybe pine shingles in a UV / windy area....

[cn1ght]

@ deborah
I may be mistaken (I often am), but the idea of having all concrete/pavement seems like it would make the summers more hot and the winters more cold.  The plants help a bit with regulating the temperature.  Cacti would probably be bad as I live in an area which gets inches/feet of snow during the winter, something like pine trees might work.  The problem being I still need some form of ground cover.  Maybe woodchips+trees would work, but then I need to worry about squirrels and whatnot digging holes in it where I need to fix it again.

@ totoro
So you have more of a garden kind of a setup I guess?  I am not nuts about having mostly a woodchip yard.  I guess I was hoping for some sort of plant suggestions I could use as ground cover which acts like grass in that any holes in the cover get filled automatically just without the need for me to cut or maintain it.  Even so, your suggestion would be much better than a lawn for me personally.

@ goldielocks
If I cannot avoid mowing then I am perfectly content staying in apartments for the rest of my life.  I mean, there are other reasons besides just the lawn care, but I am just trying to discover if I can avoid the things which I hate about houses while still getting the benefits.  My parents, neighbors, and other family members all have shrubs of some sort and those require a bit of work every year.  Minimally a few weekends of working to keep them looking nice each year, longer if you skip a year.  Woody plants: can you provide some specific examples of what I can use which have either no work needed or almost none?

@ goldielocks
So, maybe it is because my parents cheaped out, but they need to have roofing work done at least every 10 years in Ohio.  Not a complete overhaul (they have done that at least twice to my recollection) but things like a bunch of shingles needing to be replaced or something more often than once every 10 years.

I am not trying to be rude in my replies, sorry if it comes out that way.  I tend to reply in an argumentative tone because I am trying to get any questions/issues resolved about this topic and generally this is easier when I am more direct.

[3okirb]

It's not only the roof you need to worry about.  There's the heat pump, appliances, etc.  That being said, you're looking at it a little wrong.  You ARE paying for those things.  You're even paying for landscaping.  The difference is that in 10 years, your rent is going to be a lot higher and if you had bought a house, your payment would stay the same.  If you get your lawn mowed professionally twice a month for $40, how much would that cost you per year?  I can't imagine you have that many grass cutting months in Ohio, but I could be wrong.

[deborah]

Trees with stone paths and irises.

[MsPeacock]

Get the smallest possible lot and then put in the lowest possible maintenance landscaping - e.g. ivy, pachysandra, native plants. Of course, installing all of this is very labor intensive and can be expensive. The payoff is, I guess, that you avoid mowing. Basically, you have to remove all the existing grass, till, add soil if needed, cover w/ weed block fabric (because otherwise instead of grass you have flower beds full of weeds  - which is way more work), plant whatever it is that you are going to plant according to some reasonable landscaping plan, and then mulch heavily. Repeat mulching every year with 1-2 inches of new mulch each year. Depending on what you plant you may still need to prune, pull back, weed, clip, etc. on occasion - but you won't have to mow.

Personally - I love yard work. Love it. Hate winter and can't wait until I can get outside and start flinging around mulch and diving plants and such. I honestly think a plain old yard full of semi-neglected grass (mowed 2x a week), no chemicals on it is the least amount of work you can have aside from concrete (which would ruin your property value and is environmentally unfriendly).

Owning any property - house, condo, whatever - means certain unavoidable dealings-with for maintenance and repairs.

[totoro]

I'm not a big fan of groundcover or landscape fabric.  Both of them get lots of weeds in my experience and landscape fabric degrades over time.  Seriously, try cardboard and woodchips planted with evergreen perennials of different varieties based on a drawn-out plan (don't skip this step).  Mine has thing like evergreen dogwoods, evergreen azalea, Oregon grape, evergreen camellia and evergreen rhodos. Over time they fill in. Add soaker hoses or drip irrigation with a timer - put chips over everything - and it is remarkably low maintenance.

[cn1ght]

@3okirb
I am well aware of the very many things I need to worry about with a house.  I lived with my parents for more than 20 years and I have friends who have bought houses.  The roof, lawn, higher utilities, etc are all being taken on an individual basis to see how much I can limit these.  In terms of I am paying for these things: yes but it is being spread to about 45 people (actually more as the maintenance is spread among multiple buildings) instead of just me.  At this point my rent includes all maintenance, water, heating, trash, sewage, interest on a mortgage, replacing appliances, and property tax.  Using rough numbers: a friend of mine bought a house in an approximately similar neighborhood and his property tax+utilities is about 75% of my rent+utilities (probably a bit higher).  If you add in interest on the mortgage, extra work he puts into his house, and the new water heater annualized I am significantly cheaper.  I am ignoring the actual mortgage payment itself, I only include the interest on the mortgage each month (this is assuming the interest is paid as an even % of his bill every month which obviously it is not, but I am simplifying).  If you add in the mortgage itself and instead allow me to invest that getting an annualized 7% return I am not sure that the higher long-term cost of an apartment ever is more expensive than his house.

@ MsPeacock
I have probably seen pachysandra before, but now I know the name and what it is.  That could probably work rather well for ground cover, especially if you add in some form of small trees.  Not exactly great for walking through, but I think I like the look of it.  Hm, wiki says it can reach 17.7in in height.  I need to see what requirements are for areas within Ohio, a coworker mentioned a lot of places have very strict rules about what you can and cannot do with lawns...  In terms of weeding, I would have thought that the pachysandra's height and leafiness would prevent anything from entering the territory (new plants trying to enter need light which this would block).  In terms of 2X a week being semi-neglected, that is about how often my parents need to cut during summer when the grass is growing extremely quickly.  I might be okay with needing to deal with the yard once a year, anything more than that is just too much hassle for me personally.  Also, for the maintenance, repairs, etc there are some I think I might enjoy.  So, I am an electrical engineer so the thought of being able to actually do wiring in my own home is actually a little exciting.  Plus looking into geothermal heat pumps, solar energy, heated floor systems, projector setups, energy retention (there was an MMM post about how to have a house "hold" more heat or coolness) are all really exciting to me.  Things like painting, roofing, yard work=blech.  Things which I would do once (note all the things I listed fall into this category to a large extent) are awesome, things I need to do repeatedly bore me.  I also agree about the concrete being a not awesome idea and think I mentioned this already.  It would be a single time event though haha.

@ totoro
So you just have woodchips between these plants?  For some reason I keep thinking there needs to be some kind of "filler": a low to the ground green thing.  I guess there is no reason you cannot just have woodchips between these things....  When you say low maintenance, how often do you need to do anything?  Like once a year, once a month, once a week?

[10dollarsatatime]

I've seen more than one house around here with an astroturf lawn.  It sounds terrible.  It looks... green.  Better than my real lawn actually.  But I'm much better at gardening than landscaping. 

There is a house near my parents' that put in astroturf 12-14 years ago.  Still looks the same.  I imagine upkeep involves something like raking every once in a while. 

[greaper007]

I'm not a big fan of groundcover or landscape fabric.  Both of them get lots of weeds in my experience and landscape fabric degrades over time.  Seriously, try cardboard and woodchips planted with evergreen perennials of different varieties based on a drawn-out plan (don't skip this step).  Mine has thing like evergreen dogwoods, evergreen azalea, Oregon grape, evergreen camellia and evergreen rhodos. Over time they fill in. Add soaker hoses or drip irrigation with a timer - put chips over everything - and it is remarkably low maintenance.

I'm trying to do a landscaping plan for my yard.   I've put tons of time into it, and I just feel like I have information overload and analysis paralysis.    I have a difficult time figuring out the right native or adapted plants that work in my yard's micro-climates.    So I just don't water my lawn.

I tried hiring a local guy that came recommended to give me a plan, he came back with an estimate for $30,000 to xeriscape the yard.    When I asked for simple plans he said that he couldn't do that because he gets a lot of plants and then sort of figures out where they go...

So, I'm curious about how you made plant choices that fit with the micro climates in your yard, were native or adaptive, and formed a harmonious aesthetic.   

[MsPeacock]

I'm not a big fan of groundcover or landscape fabric.  Both of them get lots of weeds in my experience and landscape fabric degrades over time.  Seriously, try cardboard and woodchips planted with evergreen perennials of different varieties based on a drawn-out plan (don't skip this step).  Mine has thing like evergreen dogwoods, evergreen azalea, Oregon grape, evergreen camellia and evergreen rhodos. Over time they fill in. Add soaker hoses or drip irrigation with a timer - put chips over everything - and it is remarkably low maintenance.

I'm trying to do a landscaping plan for my yard.   I've put tons of time into it, and I just feel like I have information overload and analysis paralysis.    I have a difficult time figuring out the right native or adapted plants that work in my yard's micro-climates.    So I just don't water my lawn.

I tried hiring a local guy that came recommended to give me a plan, he came back with an estimate for $30,000 to xeriscape the yard.    When I asked for simple plans he said that he couldn't do that because he gets a lot of plants and then sort of figures out where they go...

So, I'm curious about how you made plant choices that fit with the micro climates in your yard, were native or adaptive, and formed a harmonious aesthetic.

Mostly by trial and error. I've been in my current house for 8 years and I that time have completely redone the landscaping (large yard). I had one area professionally designed and installed (expensive). In the long run they had better ideas than I did to solve some major problems in that area, which is why I hired them. However, I have had to move and adjust locations of smaller plants in the area that they did as much as I have to move and readjust plants in areas that I did myself. It is a constant project. On top of that I have a plague of deer that are destroyers of my garden!

In terms of appropriate plant selection I would suggest talking to neighbors who have great gardens and see what they have, joining a local garden club (can also be a good source for free plant divisions), getting information from the local agricultural extension service, and finding a good plant nursery with knowledgeable employees. I have also had some success asking for plant divisions on free cycle and then just planting stuff and seeing how it did. I might have to move it a year or two later as needed. Realistically, no one can for certain predict what plant will do well in a certain spot wiht 100% accuracy. Great gardens usually reflect someone who has spent a lot of time moving things around and doing trial-and-error planting over many years until they hit on something that really works.

I have had good success with landscaping fabric. I have needed it on slopes where cardboard or newspapers would not stay in place. Cardboard and paper do work, although they degrade a little faster than the fabric. Mulching is key, regardless of heat weed lack you use.

[3okirb]

@3okirb
I am well aware of the very many things I need to worry about with a house.  I lived with my parents for more than 20 years and I have friends who have bought houses.  The roof, lawn, higher utilities, etc are all being taken on an individual basis to see how much I can limit these.  In terms of I am paying for these things: yes but it is being spread to about 45 people (actually more as the maintenance is spread among multiple buildings) instead of just me.  At this point my rent includes all maintenance, water, heating, trash, sewage, interest on a mortgage, replacing appliances, and property tax.  Using rough numbers: a friend of mine bought a house in an approximately similar neighborhood and his property tax+utilities is about 75% of my rent+utilities (probably a bit higher).  If you add in interest on the mortgage, extra work he puts into his house, and the new water heater annualized I am significantly cheaper.  I am ignoring the actual mortgage payment itself, I only include the interest on the mortgage each month (this is assuming the interest is paid as an even % of his bill every month which obviously it is not, but I am simplifying).  If you add in the mortgage itself and instead allow me to invest that getting an annualized 7% return I am not sure that the higher long-term cost of an apartment ever is more expensive than his house.

I understand how you feel.  Believe me, I do.  In my area, I can't buy for 75% of the cost of renting.  That is inclusive of mortgage/rent/utilities, but not maintenance.  I don't see how paying more would allow you to put more into investments.  On a different note, ask your parents how much their house payment is.  If they haven't refinanced, I'll bet you'll be shocked.

Either way, it sounds like you've made up your mind. 

[archben82]

My wife and I have a relatively small city backyard that really didn't make sense to have grass.  Instead we created raised beds in certain zones to provide space for a traditional garden, then in the areas between these raised beds we planted steppables,....things like thyme, irish moss, succulents, etc.  The best performer (and quickest grower) has been Creeping Jenny, which will probably grow anywhere and seems to squeeze out most weeds that try to grow in it.  You do need to keep it in check however as it can take over if you're not careful.  We're very happy to not have to mow the lawn, and the maintenance has been low once the plants are established.  While they grow and fill in you will need to spend time weeding so the good plants have room to take over.