Laminate Flooring Recommendations?

[Gagnante]

I'm sure this has been asked here before, but I tried searching without much success.  We are looking at installing laminate flooring in our bedrooms, hallway and living room and I'd be interested in any brand recommendations or general advice on what to look for to get a decent product without unnecessarily breaking the bank.  It will be installed on a concrete slab foundation if that makes a difference.  I'd also be grateful for any suggestions for underlay, etc that would help with the "clackiness" that laminate can have.

[GuitarStv]

The best way to prevent 'clackiness' is to have a very very level subfloor under your laminate.  The clicking is usually caused when someone walks on an uneven part of the floor and causes the laminate to bend.  If you've got a level floor, any of the standard foam or cork underlays should work OK.

You will want some kind of moisture barrier between the concrete and laminate as well.  Concrete can wick moisture up, which could cause your laminate to warp given some time.

[Miss Piggy]

Have you seen/considered the "new" "luxury vinyl tile" options? (I don't know how new they really are; they were new to us, but we don't shop for flooring that often.) Some of them look a little more like wood than the laminate flooring, and they're easy to install yourself. I can't speak to the concrete/moisture concerns, but this option might be worth a look.

[dycker1978]

check out good will or stores that resell used... costs pennies on the dollar, and most of the time people just pull it out after 2 years for a change.

[kanga1622]

When we purchased our hardwood a few months ago, there were a lot of great laminate options. The higher priced ones felt a lot less plastic-y. The store also had a nice little demo set up with the same laminate on different underlayments. The more expensive and thicker underlayment really helped the sounds not reverberate.

[Gagnante]

The best way to prevent 'clackiness' is to have a very very level subfloor under your laminate.  The clicking is usually caused when someone walks on an uneven part of the floor and causes the laminate to bend.  If you've got a level floor, any of the standard foam or cork underlays should work OK.

You will want some kind of moisture barrier between the concrete and laminate as well.  Concrete can wick moisture up, which could cause your laminate to warp given some time.

Thank you, that's good information.  We'll probably hire out the floor leveling and do the install ourselves.  In addition to the fact that I'm sure the floor isn't as level as I think it is, there are at least two high spots that will have to be ground down, and a crack that will need to be repaired, and those things are above my pay grade.

[Spork]

I've said this in another thread or two, but it bears repeating:

IMO the most important parts of the floor are the core and the underlayment.

Core: the center of the laminate.  The cheap stuff (of all the brands) is paper that is all glued together.  AVOID.  AVOID.  AVOID.   It's not obvious that is what it is, but you can take a sharp blade and split it apart or add water and it will swell up to Incredible Hulk proportions.  You want a core  made of wood and epoxy (or just epoxy).  The wood ones will look like chip board with lots and lots of plastic/epoxy stuff in and around them.  For example, I know Pergo has made cores that were paper and cores that were not.  The whole brand isn't bad.  The paper cores are awful.

Spills on the cheaper core WILL soak through in the seams and will cup the laminate board over time.  It will look bad.

Underlayment: sometimes this is separate and sometimes it is built into the bottom of the flooring.  This is what causes the "clack" noise.  This is what fills in (mild) unevenness in the subfloor.  The very early floors this was chipped paper (like the awful core) in poster board sheets that you laid at 45 degrees to the floor.  Even though it was made of paper, it seemed okay.  Water didn't really make it that far with spills and if it did swell, it didn't affect the flooring above.

I personally preferred the glue-up floors over the click together floors.  Yes, they take 10-20% longer to lay.  But they were structurally better linked together like that.  And they were better at holding back moisture in a spill situation.  The downside: they're permanent.  If you ever have to pull that floor up, you're destroying it.  (Been there, done that.)

Source: Many years in a house where I put in about 2200sqft of varying brands/types of flooring in different rooms.

[Gagnante]

Have you seen/considered the "new" "luxury vinyl tile" options? (I don't know how new they really are; they were new to us, but we don't shop for flooring that often.) Some of them look a little more like wood than the laminate flooring, and they're easy to install yourself. I can't speak to the concrete/moisture concerns, but this option might be worth a look.

Actually, we did consider them, and got several samples from a variety of companies.  Some are definitely nicer than others.  We decided against them because I don't love how thin they are; they will butt up against a pretty thick tile, and the transition will be substantial.  Plus, I read various reviews of people having trouble with the installation and keeping them from lifting up.

[Gagnante]

check out good will or stores that resell used... costs pennies on the dollar, and most of the time people just pull it out after 2 years for a change.

That's an excellent idea, thanks!

[Gagnante]

When we purchased our hardwood a few months ago, there were a lot of great laminate options. The higher priced ones felt a lot less plastic-y. The store also had a nice little demo set up with the same laminate on different underlayments. The more expensive and thicker underlayment really helped the sounds not reverberate.

Yeah, I think ultimately we may have to spend more than I think I want to to get something decent.  I would absolutely love hardwood, and cork came in as a second choice, but the cork flooring we like is almost as expensive as hardwood, and the spouse doesn't think our house is worth the investment.

[Spork]

The best way to prevent 'clackiness' is to have a very very level subfloor under your laminate.  The clicking is usually caused when someone walks on an uneven part of the floor and causes the laminate to bend.  If you've got a level floor, any of the standard foam or cork underlays should work OK.

You will want some kind of moisture barrier between the concrete and laminate as well.  Concrete can wick moisture up, which could cause your laminate to warp given some time.

Thank you, that's good information.  We'll probably hire out the floor leveling and do the install ourselves.  In addition to the fact that I'm sure the floor isn't as level as I think it is, there are at least two high spots that will have to be ground down, and a crack that will need to be repaired, and those things are above my pay grade.

On floor leveling... (Ignore me if this isn't a slab foundation.)

I've done that myself on a floor that was SERIOUSLY out of level.  I had a 3 inch change over about a 6 foot horizontal span.  (This house was really badly built.  I found out later it was a known builder's no-good son's first attempt at building a house.)

What I did was bring in LOTS of pea gravel for the really low portions.  I then put in about 30 bags of LevelQuick.  You need to work pretty fast.  I rented a cement mixer.  It is pretty good at seeking it's own level.  You basically just need to blend in the edges or you'll get little ridges where the surface tension of the leveler leaves a bit of a bead.

[Gagnante]

Core: the center of the laminate.  The cheap stuff (of all the brands) is paper that is all glued together.  AVOID.  AVOID.  AVOID.   It's not obvious that is what it is, but you can take a sharp blade and split it apart or add water and it will swell up to Incredible Hulk proportions.  You want a core  made of wood and epoxy (or just epoxy).  The wood ones will look like chip board with lots and lots of plastic/epoxy stuff in and around them.  For example, I know Pergo has made cores that were paper and cores that were not.  The whole brand isn't bad.  The paper cores are awful.

This is just the kind of thing I need to learn, thank you!

Underlayment: sometimes this is separate and sometimes it is built into the bottom of the flooring.  This is what causes the "clack" noise.  This is what fills in (mild) unevenness in the subfloor.  The very early floors this was chipped paper (like the awful core) in poster board sheets that you laid at 45 degrees to the floor.  Even though it was made of paper, it seemed okay.  Water didn't really make it that far with spills and if it did swell, it didn't affect the flooring above.

Is there a particular type of underlayment that you would recommend?

[Spork]

Underlayment: sometimes this is separate and sometimes it is built into the bottom of the flooring.  This is what causes the "clack" noise.  This is what fills in (mild) unevenness in the subfloor.  The very early floors this was chipped paper (like the awful core) in poster board sheets that you laid at 45 degrees to the floor.  Even though it was made of paper, it seemed okay.  Water didn't really make it that far with spills and if it did swell, it didn't affect the flooring above.

Is there a particular type of underlayment that you would recommend?
[/quote]

It's been a while... and I don't know the current offerings.  I really liked the rectangular Pergo stuff and the last floor I did -- it didn't exist.  I had a whole bunch of Swedish friends that had done rooms in their houses and got a bunch of partial boxes of it from each of them to do that last room.  (Holy crap... doing the math... it's been over 10 years since I've touched the stuff now.)

Some of the newer stuff has underlay built into it.... it will have a rubbery or soft backing.

[acroy]

I've been looking at flooring for 2yrs now,
Later this month I'm installing bamboo.

The stuff is hard as nails and pretty cheap. We looked hard at various laminate and engineered hardwood products; got a lot of samples from local and online sources.
-Laminates still look cheap (to my non-Mustachian eye)
-The engineered hardwood can look great, but the good stuff is $$; and the hardwood portion is still quite thin.
-True hardwood is mega-bucks and really not use-friendly. Delicate/easy to damage. It's fine furniture, on the floor, that you walk on. Not worth it.

Natural bamboo is something like 3x as hard as hardwood; the colored stuff maybe 2x. We're doing a nice colored version.

[ShoulderThingThatGoesUp]

I have had solid strand bamboo eventually un-cup after a week when it got a decent spill on it (cooler defrosting overnight with the drain unplugged - whoops.) It doesn't sound like laminate would do that, and bamboo can be had for not that much more.

[zolotiyeruki]

Solid wood *is* really nice, even if it is expensive.  Personally, I'd prefer a medium-to-dark stained oak, as it hides damage much better than maple.  We have maple, and with six young kids, you can imagine what the floor next to the silverware drawer looks like.

[Spork]

Solid wood *is* really nice, even if it is expensive.  Personally, I'd prefer a medium-to-dark stained oak, as it hides damage much better than maple.  We have maple, and with six young kids, you can imagine what the floor next to the silverware drawer looks like.

I have recycled rock-hard maple.  I don't think you could damage it with a hammer.  I didn't spend a lot on it, but I am not sure I would recommend going the recycled route.  I have hundreds of hours of labor in it.  If I were doing actual hard wood again, I'd buy new.

[zolotiyeruki]

I guess I wasn't clear--the more visible grain in oak is better at hiding flaws and small points of damage than the more uniform maple.

[WhoDey]

We had laminate hardwood installed when we built our house.  I'm not sure if you can do this with laminate, but I would stay away from the "floating" floor, which we have.  There is an underlayment, but the floors squeak at the joints.  Also, our floors (Armstrong) are building up a white filmy residue and we have used the recommended cleaner from the beginning.

Also, make sure you get the thickest that you can, they make some pretty cheap thin stuff that is just terrible.

[GuitarStv]

Laminate has to be laid as a floating floor.  It expands and contracts due to moisture in the air, if it's fixed to the floor it will buckle because of this movement.

[dess1313]

I have alure vinyl tile and love it but that form of vinyl tile(and i beleive others) recommends to NOT install on cement floors.  It will not breathe properly and can mold underneath.  I love mine.  The tile looks awesome and the wood grains are pretty nice but if the house has cement floors as stated in the original post do not do vinyl tiles