Author Topic: Hurricane Harvey Recovery  (Read 5387 times)

TheOldestYoungMan

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Hurricane Harvey Recovery
« on: September 07, 2017, 11:49:36 AM »
Well...four days to retirement and Hurricane Harvey wiped out both my home and my rental property, leaving four tenants homeless and me back at work begging for my job back.  The rental needs to be gutted including ceilings, my house is lost below the 4' mark.  Initial demo is complete, and I've successfully begged for my job back (reason #1 not to burn bridges on your way out).  My immediate cashflow concerns are under control, salary covers all my bills on both properties, but I have no idea how to recover.

I didn't have flood insurance as I was above the thousand year flood plane.

FEMA has already told me they'll only cover my home and the amount they gave is, better than nothing, but nowhere close to enough.

I've just about trashed my body physically drying out both properties over the last 9 days.  All kinds of people turned out to help with the demo.

We built a tent in the main room of my house stapling plastic to the ceiling and taping it to the floor, so I can stay in the house instead of having to rent an apartment, thank goodness for mild gulf coast winters.

Anyone have any experience with rehabbing flooded properties?  How about selling a flooded property?  I'm damnably hard pressed to cover costs of both and save enough to rebuild either in any reasonable amount of time.

Jon Bon

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Re: Hurricane Harvey Recovery
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2017, 12:31:12 PM »
Wow that sucks.

Sounds like you are doing all you can do by being pretty badass. Tearing out all the drywall in 2 houses in 9 days must have been a chore!

I volunteered to go to NOLA after Katrina, Im sure it was much of the same all of the drywall and insulation had to go. All appliances and furniture was pretty much trashed. How is the shell of your house? Are the windows and siding ok? How about the sheeting underneath? How long was your house in water? If the shell of the house is in decent shape that is a good starting point.

As for selling your house, I mean your whole neighbor flooded right? Its not going to be a secret that your area flooded, so selling it should be pretty much a known commodity and priced in? That is just my guess.  I mean this has never happened before and I dont think anyone can tell you with much certainty what its like after the fact. Maybe find a NOLA real estate agent? Ask them about what it was like?


 I would assume Houston will come back nearly 100% of what it was before. NOLA was nowhere near back to normal. Your house is not built below sea level. I feel like that was one of the hard lessons that Louisiana had to learn. All the dams and levies in the world dont make a house below sea level a good idea IMO. So with that said there will still be a demand for quality houses that can withstand typical summer storms. I mean 50 inches of rain is going to ruin any city.

Sorry that you have to deal with all this, but honestly its awesome to hear how determined you are and how hard you are working. Good luck


robartsd

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Re: Hurricane Harvey Recovery
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2017, 04:18:27 PM »
The problem with selling will be that your market will mostly be investors looking for a good deal with plenty of other properties to pick from. I agree with Jon Bon about your area coming back in a relatively short time frame. It might make sense to leverage some of the rest of your stache to rebuild rather than sell.

Agg97

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Re: Hurricane Harvey Recovery
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2017, 08:50:02 AM »
Sorry about your loss....at least you're OK, physically. 

The problem with selling will be that your market will mostly be investors looking for a good deal with plenty of other properties to pick from. I agree with Jon Bon about your area coming back in a relatively short time frame. It might make sense to leverage some of the rest of your stache to rebuild rather than sell.

Agreed.  There are LOTS of potential tenants out there right now who just went through what you did.  In your situation, I would prioritize the rental property; the sooner its back up and generating income, the sooner your cashflow will even out again.  That requires you living in squalor at your main home, mind you.   It might even be worth considering fixing up your main home and rent that out first, if it's less work overall.

SunshineAZ

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Re: Hurricane Harvey Recovery
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2017, 08:59:50 AM »
I don't have any advice, but I want to say that I am sorry for the damage to your property and the delay to your retirement.  I wish you the best of luck getting things repaired and back to normal. 

HPstache

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Re: Hurricane Harvey Recovery
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2017, 09:04:43 AM »
Wow... so sorry to hear about this.

Jon Bon

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Re: Hurricane Harvey Recovery
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2017, 11:23:58 AM »
How's it going YoungMan?

I know the last thing you want to do is update some random internet strangers. So feel free to ignore this post. I do however think it might help for you to list out how much you have already accomplished, and we will totally cheer you on.

Have you started putting either of your houses back together yet? I am sure it is going to be a massive chore, but I bet there is profit in a first mover advantage here. If your rental is back up to speed in a month or two I would imagine you could have your pick of tenants.Are you having difficulty finding materials or contractors?

Good luck friend, if you can demo both of your houses in 9 days I am sure that you can do this! We will for sure answer any questions you might have!


affordablehousing

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Re: Hurricane Harvey Recovery
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2017, 01:58:17 PM »
So tough to have something like this happen right as you're ready to pull the plug. I've always thought MMM is great when times are good, but basically assumes everyone - never gets hurt, never gets robbed, no disasters, never have kids with issues, etc. So yeah, really impressive how you've so quickly taken care of things to prevent mold from getting worse. An odd idea, but try to take a step back, and if you were just about ready to quit, then hopefully this can be seen partially as a momentary rough patch. I would think real estate would take a significant hit for awhile, maybe 30% haircuts for flooded versus unflooded homes, but if you're handy, and it sounds it, maybe this is a chance for you to add to your portfolio and get some cheap homes. I would think this event shifts homes that would otherwise interest families looking for ready to move in conditions, to homes investors don't mind taking some risk rehabbing. If you've got the talent and grit to bring back your own home and rental, you could apply that and your local real estate experience to pick up some other temporarily lower priced homes. When they bounce back as the storm recedes in memory, the equity gain will get you back to where you were before. I can't imagine losing two homes and having someone tell me there's a silver lining, but day by day things will improve and get more liveable. Best wishes!!!

Abundant life

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Re: Hurricane Harvey Recovery
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2017, 05:30:26 AM »
Quote
Anyone have any experience with rehabbing flooded properties?  How about selling a flooded property?  I'm damnably hard pressed to cover costs of both and save enough to rebuild either in any reasonable amount of time.
Personally no, but I recently saw a program on this very subject, although in Brisbane Australia. A home that had been freshly renovated for sale before the flood was valued at $750K, after the flood damage (it was down to the studs) was estimated to sell for $450K as is.

The owners were trying to ascertain whether it was worth it to restore the house before selling. They invested some of the insurance payout in the renovation and were hoping for $650K or $700K, I don't remember which. Well it didn't make reserve, but the family moved and rented it out instead.

I just looked it up and they eventually sold it 3 years after the flood for $645K. As has been said, it takes a while for everyone to forget the flood or any natural disaster.

Hoping that you can work your way out of this (without killing yourself physically), and losing too much financial traction. Do you have a group of friends or relatives who could help you rebuild?

Poundwise

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Re: Hurricane Harvey Recovery
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2017, 11:16:22 AM »
Oh, how terrible!!!  I'm so very sorry to hear that you have gone through this.  No immediate advice to give, but I feel that you have the grit to pull through this and emerge stronger than ever.

Perhaps when you rebuild, you could integrate some floodproofing that will make your property more attractive? Some of these tips sound inexpensive, such as
"Fit water-resistant doors and window frames and use water-resilient plaster or lay plasterboard horizontally so only the bottom strip would need replacing."
or
"Some effective steps post-flood damage cost little, such as raising electric sockets to a higher level or attaching a television to a wall."

https://makewealthhistory.org/2016/01/08/five-ways-to-build-a-flood-proof-home/
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-4191228/Simple-tips-flood-proof-home-ahead-storms.html


joonifloofeefloo

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Re: Hurricane Harvey Recovery
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2017, 11:20:58 AM »
Geez... I started to cry, and my Kid asked me what was up... Oh, man. I am so, so, so sorry this has happened to you, your family, your tenants. Awful.

We're glad you're all alive! But, oh. This is hard, hard, hard.

Although I know nothing, I'm glad you shared your shit circumstance here and have this forum to help you (as it is always helping me)!!

afuera

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Re: Hurricane Harvey Recovery
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2017, 12:46:10 PM »
Hello Flood Brother (get it? Like Blood Brother but more depressing...),
Harvey flooded us too, 1.5 feet in our home.  This is the first time we ever flooded, the same with many homes in my neighborhood.
I have found a lot of good information on this facebook group.  There is also another one called Floodie Buddies where Sandy floodies share lessons learned.
We have our house ripped down to the studs currently and are renting a townhome for the next 6 months while we try to rebuild.  Not sure what to do next, we have a contractor so we are going to meet with him and try and figure out the next steps.  We were renting a room out to a friend but he just went and found an apartment and I doubt we will want to move back in after we get everything rebuilt.


One of the things I was thinking was that I was glad that we were still employed when Harvey hit because I don't know what we would have done without the additional income and flexibility our jobs allow us.  I so sorry this happened to you right when you were supposed to be finally recovering from work life but glad you were able to get your job back and have more security during this rough patch.  I know you don't wanna hear this right now (I know I didn't) but we are in a much better spot than a lot of other people who flooded.  We have savings, the strength and ability to DIY much of what others cant, and the mental fortitude to process this disaster and make decisions while others are stuck panicking because they don't know how they will feed themselves or their families. My heart aches for all the low income and elderly residents who have no options and no way to recover.  Whenever I catch myself feeling sorry for myself, I try and remind myself of all of that.  Sometimes it doesn't work and turn into a little puddle of self-pity for awhile for awhile but sometimes it does.

Good luck with everything.  If you want someone to drown your sorrows with, there is a Mustache Meetup on 10/8 at 8th Wonder, my husband and I will be there.  Or just PM me.

Dicey

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Re: Hurricane Harvey Recovery
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2017, 10:30:17 PM »
I know you don't wanna hear this right now (I know I didn't) but we are in a much better spot than a lot of other people who flooded.  We have savings, the strength and ability to DIY much of what others cant, and the mental fortitude to process this disaster and make decisions while others are stuck panicking because they don't know how they will feed themselves or their families. My heart aches for all the low income and elderly residents who have no options and no way to recover.  Whenever I catch myself feeling sorry for myself, I try and remind myself of all of that.  Sometimes it doesn't work and turn into a little puddle of self-pity for awhile for awhile but sometimes it does.
^This is beautiful.^ Best wishes to both of you for complete recoveries.

afuera

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Re: Hurricane Harvey Recovery
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2018, 10:16:09 AM »
Hello @TheOldestYoungMan
How are renovations on your houses going?  Was thinking about you during these unusually cold last few days.  Hopefully you are not freezing to death.  We are still renting a townhome and renovations on our house our progressing slowly.

JustNeedsPaint

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Re: Hurricane Harvey Recovery
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2018, 09:43:52 PM »
Progressing slowly is progress! You must have had a decent adjuster.

My husband is working to remediate and rebuild family homes in the Dickinson area as well as friends of family (I'm stuck on the sidelines for pregnancy reasons--no mold here please!--as well as we don't live in Texas and I have full time employment). There is not a lot of progress because he is stuck fighting with adjusters/insurance desk adjusters who are shortchanging the families. Who knew the first step to remediation was pulling out the estimating software instead of a sledgehammer for months... Of course, the drywall/doors/tile/etc. are already out, but getting the real funds for the chemical clean out and rebuilding is a struggle.

The airline losing his baggage on his way back to Houston didn't make the cold days last week very enjoyable. ;-)

TheOldestYoungMan

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Re: Hurricane Harvey Recovery
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2018, 03:00:57 PM »
September was a month of mopping.  Any given day in September I used a mop more than my cumulative lifetime of mop opportunities.

I am now a mop master.

October was a month of physical and mental recovery.  Also a month of struggling with the SBA.  I am incredibly grateful for the assistance they provide.  But.  It would have been nice if they had just mailed me the packet so I could get it all done.  I had to keep going back with one thing at a time before my case worker would mete out the next form.  I get that some people need that sort of hand holding but it ultimately delayed me being able to access funds by three months, and cost me all of my remaining vacation time to go to the SBA center.  Still, grateful for the loan.

I learned you can't borrow money against the equity in your house after your house is destroyed.

I learned that banks won't work with you on the best way to rebuild a property.  My rent house is a total loss that should be taken down to grade, but I literally cannot get a demolition permit because the bank won't release the lien because the house is my collateral on the loan.  I never thought I would walk away from a mortgage but the best financial decision I could make is to walk away.  I'm still in it only for the moral reasons, the behavior of the bank is completely irrational.  I put the thing up for sale to see if I can get out with my cash on hand, but otherwise I'm going to have to let the bank just deal with it.  Not only would they not allow me to demolish the ruined house, they also forced me to get insurance for it.  That's right, I got to pay two thousand dollars for wind insurance for a house that is worth zero.  Never buying a house with debt again.  Absolutely no fucking sense.  Because a bank refuses to acknowledge that the collateral was wiped out, I'm going to have spend almost twice as much to rehab it.  We're talking, replacement of every wall, exterior and interior, most interior studs, all the electrical and plumbing, all floors and ceilings, all the HVAC, the roof, the windows.  There might be some framing above the 9' line that is salvaged.  Total bullshit.

November I got nervous about colder weather so I rounded up some buddies and my family and we put the exterior wall insulation back up in my home, which is good because Houston froze-the-fuck-over and my little indoor tent has been nice and cozy.  I also tried my hand at drywall in the kitchen where it'll be hidden by cabinets and such and learned I'm terrible at it and that it is actually really difficult to do it.  Also if I did my whole house the house would look like shit, until the last room when I finally learned what I was doing, and then I'd have to redo it all.

So I hired a contractor to do it.  He couldn't start right away.  Would get back to me in January.

December was a real struggle.  The stuff I feel like I could do on my own is all done.  The tent has started to feel claustrophobic.  I missed alot of the Holiday stuff because I don't have appropriate clothing and didn't want to be that terrible reminder of awfulness all the time.  Aside from work I mostly just laid on my bed at home watching netflix, trying not to think about it, just reminding myself that it will get better eventually.  Saving my money, staying frugal.  Trying to be grateful.

My contractor died in January.  My situation is stable but I'm feeling increasingly stretched.  Most of my clothes have tears in the arms from snagging sharp edges on the way from the tent to the restroom.  I got pretty sick there for awhile and missed some work.

The sudden freeze killed the avocado trees outside I'd managed to rehab after the flood.

Throughout it all I am reminded that I'm still really well off.  Makes me feel worse though.  Walking outside and seeing all your neighbors are similarly suffering and there's nothing you can do to help, I don't even have a word for that feeling.

I was thinking about it today, about where I was at vs. where I'm at now, and how angry I am, and I thought about how much worse it would be if I hadn't spent years practicing living on nothing.  Years spent learning just exactly how quick I could save up large sums of money.  So that I can know there's an end in sight.  I can know that this is temporary, and not just a permanent reduction in my standard of living.

I go out of my mind with despair if I let myself think of anyone less fortunate than me.  This was an unmitigated disaster for me, it's totally unrecoverable if you were borderline in the first place.  You'd be in pack-your-shit-move-someplace-new territory.

Tonight I'll meet the sixth contractor I expect to never hear from again.

There's a coworker that was similarly wiped out and he's about the only person I can still stand to be around at work, mostly because we can go to lunch and just sit there not talking.  We both understand.  It's objectively a shitty situation, sort of irrelevant that other people are also hurting.  I wouldn't wish this on anyone.  I'm just as frustrated that this happened to others as I am that it happened to me.  I'm furious at how the assistance is handled.  I've had to meet an inspector at my rent house over a dozen times "validating the damage."  It's like, what. the. fuck.  Take a picture and share it with your friends, do you really suspect fraud?

Ran some preliminary numbers and it looks like I get a full refund on my 2017 taxes, which is handy, as I stopped all pre-tax contributions after the storm to get my hands on as much cash as possible.

I don't really know how to find contractors, seems like everyone good is busy, and all the prices are sky high to boot.

Waiting it out seems like the right thing to do...but it feels like every day is hell and getting worse.

I'm just saving up trying to get through it, the only way out is through.  I really wasn't built for this though, I want out. 

At work everything has normalized.  I have to act like everything is OK.  "If that were me I'd have had my whole house fixed by now," is perhaps the most helpful thing I hear on a regular basis.  Indeed, I probably could have thrown cash at the problem and been done.

I'm starting to wish I had.

I'm in mourning for the dream I had of early retirement.  I can't imagine ever feeling secure enough to stop working now.

One day at a time.  It's surreal cleaning a toilet in a ruined house.  Like, your house is legit ruined, but you still live there so the maintenance activities have to start up again at some point.  Mopping the floor again because it's been awhile.  It's bare concrete but it still collects lint and dirt same as the carpet did.

At least I don't have a wife or kids I'm putting through this.

Flood is just the worst.

I'm OK though, I'll survive.

Poundwise

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Re: Hurricane Harvey Recovery
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2018, 08:27:42 PM »
Oh man, what you have been through!!

Is it possible that you could join up with a couple of neighbors and each learn how to do one kind of repair, then swap work with each other? For instance, if one of you has some experience with drywall, you could spend a week doing drywall at one person's house, then the next week doing drywall at the other person's house, etc?  And split the costs of tools/getting materials delivered?

Thinking of you and praying that your luck turns around soon! 
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 09:17:55 PM by Poundwise »

robartsd

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Re: Hurricane Harvey Recovery
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2018, 11:05:12 AM »
I learned that banks won't work with you on the best way to rebuild a property.  My rent house is a total loss that should be taken down to grade, but I literally cannot get a demolition permit because the bank won't release the lien because the house is my collateral on the loan.  I never thought I would walk away from a mortgage but the best financial decision I could make is to walk away.  I'm still in it only for the moral reasons, the behavior of the bank is completely irrational.  I put the thing up for sale to see if I can get out with my cash on hand, but otherwise I'm going to have to let the bank just deal with it.  Not only would they not allow me to demolish the ruined house, they also forced me to get insurance for it.  That's right, I got to pay two thousand dollars for wind insurance for a house that is worth zero.  Never buying a house with debt again.  Absolutely no fucking sense.  Because a bank refuses to acknowledge that the collateral was wiped out, I'm going to have spend almost twice as much to rehab it.  We're talking, replacement of every wall, exterior and interior, most interior studs, all the electrical and plumbing, all floors and ceilings, all the HVAC, the roof, the windows.  There might be some framing above the 9' line that is salvaged.  Total bullshit.
Banks are large conservative bureaucratic institutions. Doesn't suprise me that they'd be this dumb. Many people would be walking away as soon as they realized that the property is worth less than what is owed.
November I got nervous about colder weather so I rounded up some buddies and my family and we put the exterior wall insulation back up in my home, which is good because Houston froze-the-fuck-over and my little indoor tent has been nice and cozy.  I also tried my hand at drywall in the kitchen where it'll be hidden by cabinets and such and learned I'm terrible at it and that it is actually really difficult to do it.  Also if I did my whole house the house would look like shit, until the last room when I finally learned what I was doing, and then I'd have to redo it all.
It seems to me that putting up the sheets is physically very hard work, but should not be that difficult to get done right. It is the seams that will kill you until you build up experience. Perhaps you could get your house finished to the point where it's ready to have the contractor do the seams and hire out just that portion to save some money (and improve sanity while waiting).

TheOldestYoungMan

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Re: Hurricane Harvey Recovery
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2018, 02:16:13 PM »

It seems to me that putting up the sheets is physically very hard work, but should not be that difficult to get done right. It is the seams that will kill you until you build up experience. Perhaps you could get your house finished to the point where it's ready to have the contractor do the seams and hire out just that portion to save some money (and improve sanity while waiting).

Yea I go through this cycle:

If I put up the drywall myself, which isn't too bad, that will save me money because then all the drywall contractor has to do is tape and float!

But it isn't like the drywall contractor doesn't know that putting it up is the easy part when he quotes it, so maybe I should ask how much it will save me.

Then I ask and they don't even want the job if I put the drywall up.  "How well the wall gets put up directly impacts how long to tape and float."

So while putting the drywall up myself ought to save me money, practically speaking it just isn't going to while every drywall contractor in the area has an endless backlog of folks less cheap than me.


If I actually just go and put it up though, it probably wouldn't matter, because they'd come in and see it up, but that's contingent on me doing a good job, and it's a know your limits thing.  Maybe I don't really need walls.  I can just live with bare studs, it's fine.  Everything is fine.

afuera

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Re: Hurricane Harvey Recovery
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2018, 02:59:33 PM »
Maybe I don't really need walls.  I can just live with bare studs, it's fine.  Everything is fine.


big_owl

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Re: Hurricane Harvey Recovery
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2018, 07:14:42 PM »

It seems to me that putting up the sheets is physically very hard work, but should not be that difficult to get done right. It is the seams that will kill you until you build up experience. Perhaps you could get your house finished to the point where it's ready to have the contractor do the seams and hire out just that portion to save some money (and improve sanity while waiting).

Yea I go through this cycle:

If I put up the drywall myself, which isn't too bad, that will save me money because then all the drywall contractor has to do is tape and float!

But it isn't like the drywall contractor doesn't know that putting it up is the easy part when he quotes it, so maybe I should ask how much it will save me.

Then I ask and they don't even want the job if I put the drywall up.  "How well the wall gets put up directly impacts how long to tape and float."

So while putting the drywall up myself ought to save me money, practically speaking it just isn't going to while every drywall contractor in the area has an endless backlog of folks less cheap than me.


If I actually just go and put it up though, it probably wouldn't matter, because they'd come in and see it up, but that's contingent on me doing a good job, and it's a know your limits thing.  Maybe I don't really need walls.  I can just live with bare studs, it's fine.  Everything is fine.

I don't mean this to sound insensitive, I empathize with your situation.  I hired somebody to mud/tape the drywall in our basement for less than $1.5k for over 2000 sqft.  If they had hung it themselves it would have been about $2500.  To me that's a steal, a no brainer.  In your case, even if it's $5k and you offer them a $1000 cash tip to take the job as incentive, is that even an argument?  Hang it yourself and dangle a cash tip in front of somebody to get them to do your house instead of somebody else's.  $5k-10k to get over this hump seems like money well spent. 

robartsd

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Re: Hurricane Harvey Recovery
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2018, 03:44:20 PM »
I can understand contractor reluctance to bid a tape/float job without seeing the installed drywall, my point is that it is the part of the job that is easy to learn (but physically hard).

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!