How far down do top plates extend in standard 8' wall framing?

[secondcor521]

Hi all.

I bought a curtain rod for blackout curtains for my bedroom.  To minimize light seepage over the top of the curtain rod, I'd like to install the curtain rod fairly close to the ceiling.  To minimize light seepage around the sides of the curtains, I'd like to install the ends of the curtain rod a few inches to the outside of the window.

The mounting hardware that came with the curtain rod is your standard drywall anchors, where you drill about a 1/8" hole, hammer in the plastic drywall anchors, then screw the screw through the curtain rod mounting holes into the drywall anchors.

The walls are standard 8' high framing with drywall, texturing, and paint.  I *assume* there are two top plates, but I don't know for sure and I don't know which drywall was installed first - ceiling or wall.

So because (a) I want the drywall anchors to be in wood, and (b) I want to install the drywall anchors to the outside of the "window king stud" (not sure what the name is, but I think that terminology is understandable), and (c) I want them to be mounted almost to the ceiling, how far down do top plates extend below the joint between the ceiling and the wall?

I'd guess (1 7/8" x 2) - 5/8" or so.

[bacchi]

Ceiling drywall is usually installed first and 5/8" is probably a safe guess for the thickness. The plates will be 1.5"x2 thick so 2.5" down from the ceiling will be no wood (unless you live in an old house with "real" wood dimensions).

But why use drywall anchors for screwing into wood? The anchors work by expanding as the screw goes into them and the plastic won't expand into wood. If you can even get them into the drilled hole without mashing them. Predrill with a smaller bit and use the screws without the anchors.


edit: misread

[secondcor521]

Thanks.

I was going to use drywall anchors because that's what came in the box for mounting hardware.

Also, the curtain rod has to span a 72" wide window plus hold up the curtains, so I think I need something fairly strong.  The rod itself is fairly heavy; it's metal and perhaps 1/2" in diameter.

Follow up Q:  Which would be stronger:  (a) drywall anchors and screw into drywall, or (b) screw through drywall into top plate?  The instructions say you can do either.  I think the screws are about 1" long.

[SunnyDays]

Screw it into the wood if you can - that would be stronger than into drywall.

Is there no centre support for the rod?  There should be for a 72” span.  If one didn’t come with the rod, I would suggest you add one.  That will make it much sturdier.

[BudgetSlasher]

It is almost always stronger to screw into wood than to use a drywall anchor. But for a blind a good drywall anchor will be more than enough. If I were you I would place the rod where I wanted it and drill some small (smaller than the screws) holes where the screws/anchors will go, if any hit framing I would use screws into the framing and any that don't I would install a drywall anchor.

I almost always find myself replacing the drywall anchors that come as part of the installation materials with anchors I feel more confident in. Every so often a kit will include decent hardware.

The amount of top plate will depend on how your house was frame. If you have a double top plate and the ceiling drywall is not hung from furring strips you are look at about 2.5" if you have only a single top plate and the ceiling is hung from (3/4") furring strips you are looking at 0.25" or maybe .125".

That is assuming first that it is drywall and not a plaster and lathe (which could be thicker) and second that no one has doubled up the drywall (sometimes done for noise control or because it is easier than fixing or tearing out and replacing the existing drywall).

[sonofsven]

You probably have a solid header there anyway, generally a 4x10.
But the lid is installed first, then the walls, so 3" (1.5x2) - 5/8 =2 3/8" down from the ceiling for the plates.
Then add the header at 9.5" (+ 2 3/8)=11 7/8" down from the ceiling to your window (sometimes there's another 2x under the header)
If these numbers don't add up to where your window is then you have a different size header, or it's framed down from the header (some people put cripples above the header, some below)
Having said all this, I say put it where you want it and drill tiny holes to determine if its wood behind the drywall or not, and use screws and/or drywall inserts as needed.

[secondcor521]

Thanks for the replies.

@BudgetSlasher, it's blackout curtains, not blinds, so a fair amount heavier.  But I think I'll do as you suggest with the pilot holes then see what happens from there.

The ceiling drywall is hung directly from the roof joists, and it's drywall, not lathe and plaster.  I really doubt they doubled up the drywall, which I also am confident is original to the house, so no repairs.

@sonofsven, thanks.  I think you're talking about above the window.  I'm planning on above *and* further out (i.e. wider), so that's why I was asking about top plates and not window headers and cripples and such.

[BudgetSlasher]

Thanks for the replies.

@BudgetSlasher, it's blackout curtains, not blinds, so a fair amount heavier.  But I think I'll do as you suggest with the pilot holes then see what happens from there.

The ceiling drywall is hung directly from the roof joists, and it's drywall, not lathe and plaster.  I really doubt they doubled up the drywall, which I also am confident is original to the house, so no repairs.

@sonofsven, thanks.  I think you're talking about above the window.  I'm planning on above *and* further out (i.e. wider), so that's why I was asking about top plates and not window headers and cripples and such.

Blackout curtains still will not be a problem with high quality drywall anchor, everyone seems to have their favorite, but for heavy and dynamic loads I prefer types that clamp firmly to the back side of the drywall. The little plastic friction fits will fail over time.

I have some wire rack shelving that the prior owner installed with quality drywall anchors that in my master closet shelving and clothes hanging racks and it hasn't failed. They had the opportunity to mount to framing so I have no idea why they chose drywall anchors.

[habanero]

Drywall anchors can hold a lot more weight than one would assume.

But 103 out of 100 times I screw into wood with regular screws if that is possible. Its easier, stronger if needed and a lot easier to remove if that should be relevant at some point in the future.

You can also get a stud seeker to find out exactly where there are studs (if any). I've had one from Zircon for 15 years or so and it has never let me down. Very precise for finding one or both edges of a stud or any other sold surface behind drywall.

For checking of there is wood behind in a general area tapping on the wall is normally enough. The sound from drywall with and without wood behind it is quite different, allthough it can be hard to tell exactly where the wood starts just by tapping.

[BudgetSlasher]

Also if you are looking for framing, most framing methods have a stud immediately to either side of the window. Depending where you want to put the brackets those studs could give the you the ability to sink a screw into wood without worrying about the top plate. It might even be doubled up with a "cripple" stud over the window header.

[Paper Chaser]

I prefer this style of drywall anchor if supporting weight or pulling forces are in play:


They'll hold up to 75lbs each, can easily be installed with a screwdriver or cordless drill and that pack costs under $3 at my local box store which I consider to be cheap insurance for a better product than the regular drywall anchors

[BudgetSlasher]

I prefer this style of drywall anchor if supporting weight or pulling forces are in play:


They'll hold up to 75lbs each, can easily be installed with a screwdriver or cordless drill and that pack costs under $3 at my local box store which I consider to be cheap insurance for a better product than the regular drywall anchors

Those used to be my go to (and to be fair I have never had a failure) until I was remodeling and took down some drywall to discover that many of them had a large amount of blow out on the backside.

I've since switched to either the heavy duty version of those that include a toggle or the steel hollow wall anchors.

[lthenderson]

I'm assuming you can't or don't have a stud finder to use? If not, I would take a magnet and just run it in the area of where you want to mount to get a good idea of where studs are located. Another option I have used for fastening heavy drapes to wood where there was only drywall is to paint a narrow width board (usually 2 to 3" wide) in the same color of your trim and install it above the top trim board of your window. The board is long enough to span the width of the window plus any extra amount you want to go to install your mounting hardware. You can then screw that board in at intermediate studs or header if in a load bearing wall and then just mount your hardware to the board specifically where desired. The curtains generally complete disguise the board but I usually make it look as much a part of the trim as possible anyway.