Help Me Finish My Unfinished Basement

[ReadySetMillionaire]

I didn't even realize that this sub-forum existed before posting in "Ask A Mustachian." So now I'm bringing that post over here.  To summarize:

Here's a few pictures of my basement:

   

The space is basically a big rectangle -- about 26 x 35.

In terms of use, I'm looking for a workout area, a seating area, a ping pong table, and a smaller card table. This is my current ideal layout, with the red lines being finished drywall:



My digging through the attic and garage indicates that the prior owners already did some work --

-Used patio paint to paint the floor
-Used masonry paint of the cinder blocks
-Started framing in a bathroom

My design plan is admittedly waffling, as I can't seem to decide on a bunch of things, and also not being able to decide on whether to do things DIY.

***

Drywall: As indicated in the picture, I am going to drywall the red lines -- the one long wall and the partition wall around the HVAC.  My plan as of right now is to have a contractor friend help me frame. Then I am going to take a crack at drywalling the least visible wall (the wall behind the HVAC area), see how it looks, and then go from there.

Flooring: I initially wanted to not put any flooring down there, but Traffic Master vinyl planking has really caught my eye. It would be down there for a really, really long time (I expect traffic to be relatively minimal compared to upstairs) and it would look really sharp. My biggest question -- should I be using a sub-floor like Dricore, or just a thin layer of something?

Ceiling: My plan is to paint the ceiling a light gray. Seems like a lot of people are doing black, but that just looks too dark to me. Anybody with any experience painting these?

***

I am wondering if I am missing anything big here in terms of water/light/protecting the actual basement. My house has never had water issues (according to the disclosures), but I am extremely wary of putting money into finishing only to see it get damaged.

Like I said, I plan to DIY everything except the framing.

Any particular recommendations on where to NOT be penny wise and pound foolish?

[Milspecstache]

First, let me applaud you for deciding to DIY so much of the project!!

I can't see the pictures on this computer so forgive me if I miss something.

Do you see any water stains on the walls indicating previous flooding?
How is the ground level outside compared to the basement floor?  Is this a walkout basement?
Do your neighbors have problems with flooding in their basements?
Where do your gutters outside drain to?  Ground is worst, best is to a ditch far away...

Framing is ridiculously easy.  I do recommend pressure-treated as much as possible, mandatory for the bottom plate.
For drywall I would recommend the purple kind as it is slightly better against moisture and designed for bathrooms.

If it were me, I would DIY as much as possible, using books and YouTube videos to learn the trades as I go along.  What is your plan for electric?

[ReadySetMillionaire]

First, let me applaud you for deciding to DIY so much of the project!!

I can't see the pictures on this computer so forgive me if I miss something.

Do you see any water stains on the walls indicating previous flooding?
How is the ground level outside compared to the basement floor?  Is this a walkout basement?
Do your neighbors have problems with flooding in their basements?
Where do your gutters outside drain to?  Ground is worst, best is to a ditch far away...

Framing is ridiculously easy.  I do recommend pressure-treated as much as possible, mandatory for the bottom plate.
For drywall I would recommend the purple kind as it is slightly better against moisture and designed for bathrooms.

If it were me, I would DIY as much as possible, using books and YouTube videos to learn the trades as I go along.  What is your plan for electric?

Basement is underground. Zero signs of any moisture history. My neighborhood has a ton of hills and we are at the very top of one of the hills, so drainage is great. Water drains to the street except for one gutter in the back, but that's over by the crawl space.

Definitely planning on using pressure-treated wood just for moisture reasons. Was also going to use moisture resistant drywall. I am torn on using insulation because I am not finishing half the walls and part of the floor, so I don't really see the point.

[lthenderson]

When in doubt, I always insulate because insulation is cheap and it is much more expensive to do later on if you change your mind and already have drywall done. As for the ceilings, I would never paint them a dark color. I redid some basement space for an office and put a hybrid ceiling panel system up that is white. It makes it so much brighter and more pleasant to be there for longer periods of time than open joists which I had before.

[Papa bear]

Do not use dmx airflow underlayment under a vinyl product.

I used it in my basement as I really liked the properties, has some insulation value, and can dry out from underneath.  It’s also rated to work under vinyl.  Boy did that not work out.  It has too much give to it and the end seems on lock and click vinyl tend to pop up when you walk on the floor. Boy was I disappointed. 

I would definitely use an underlayment though, and if you have enough ceiling height, consider something that has the dimpleing for air flow and osb for structure. 

For your HVAC closet, consider noise.  You may want to insulate the walls and ceiling to reduce the noise coming out of there.  If you ever want a quiet area for TV/theater, you will thank yourself later. 

Any wood that touches concrete should be pressure treated.  Wood can wick water up from concrete and you do not want rot. Also consider mold resistant drywall for your entire project.  It’s probably double the cost for the drywall, but is immaterial given the total costs of the project. 

I’m not a fan of the bare ceiling that is painted.  I also don’t like drop ceilings.  It’s drywall, wood slats (surface screwed to pull down later if needed), or keep it as is for me. 

Have you thought about plumbing? A full or 1/2 bath is killer for a basement! This is the time to rough that in.  In fact, this is the time to rough everything in before finishing.  Overdo your rough ins for later, extra romex lines, plumb out extra for future bathrooms, run a gas line out to the backyard, run spear wire, cat6 cable, cable line, etc.  do this all now!


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[zolotiyeruki]

Having just finished our basement, I'd tell you that framing is about the easiest part.  The electrical was a lot harder, probably because our area requires EMT rather than allowing Romex like the rest of the developed world.  I actually hired out the rough plumbing, since I didn't understand some of the nuances of running DWV.

I bought some materials used, especially bathroom fixtures and light fixtures.  Some lumber I got used as well (used for ceiling strapping).  That saved a few hundred bucks.

[lthenderson]

I’m not a fan of the bare ceiling that is painted.  I also don’t like drop ceilings.  It’s drywall, wood slats (surface screwed to pull down later if needed), or keep it as is for me. 

I'm not a fan of bare ceilings either and I think you've seen me post this before but in case the OP hasn't, there are hybrid ceiling systems that the DIY big box stores sell that work really well. They look just like drop ceilings but attach direction the bottom of the floor joists so don't take up any extra head space room. The panels snap into a grid work like suspended ceilings but have an extra plastic T-track that snaps into place to keep the panels in place and allows for you to remove them at a later date for access if you need too. A lot less work than undoing and redoing drywall on wood slats.

[ReadySetMillionaire]

Do not use dmx airflow underlayment under a vinyl product.

I used it in my basement as I really liked the properties, has some insulation value, and can dry out from underneath.  It’s also rated to work under vinyl.  Boy did that not work out.  It has too much give to it and the end seems on lock and click vinyl tend to pop up when you walk on the floor. Boy was I disappointed. 

I would definitely use an underlayment though, and if you have enough ceiling height, consider something that has the dimpleing for air flow and osb for structure. 

For your HVAC closet, consider noise.  You may want to insulate the walls and ceiling to reduce the noise coming out of there.  If you ever want a quiet area for TV/theater, you will thank yourself later. 

Any wood that touches concrete should be pressure treated.  Wood can wick water up from concrete and you do not want rot. Also consider mold resistant drywall for your entire project.  It’s probably double the cost for the drywall, but is immaterial given the total costs of the project. 

I’m not a fan of the bare ceiling that is painted.  I also don’t like drop ceilings.  It’s drywall, wood slats (surface screwed to pull down later if needed), or keep it as is for me. 

Have you thought about plumbing? A full or 1/2 bath is killer for a basement! This is the time to rough that in.  In fact, this is the time to rough everything in before finishing.  Overdo your rough ins for later, extra romex lines, plumb out extra for future bathrooms, run a gas line out to the backyard, run spear wire, cat6 cable, cable line, etc.  do this all now!


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Tagging @Papa bear , @lthenderson @zolotiyeruki since you all clearly know what you're talking about.

A friend of mine came over this weekend and helped me frame in the partition wall.  All went well except...the bottom 2x4s are not pressure treated. Basically I thought I bought pressure treated but didn't (Home Depot's setup is extremely confusing). He mentioned it wasn't pressure treated but I was so eager to get started that I said "fuck it" and put it in. He said if I don't get water down there then it's not a big deal; now I'm regretting it.

I'd hate to take the entire thing down. The bottom plate is only screwed into the floor. So my thought is to take a sawzall to the bottom plate, saw it out and unscrew it, put a new one under, and nail that in. I can't decide whether this is stupid or not.

***

Regarding plumbing, I am thinking of putting a urinal down there. Perhaps tacky but I don't care. Function over form 10/10.

***

Would you put anything under vinyl plank flooring? I'm thinking of something like this -- https://www.homedepot.com/p/Home-Decorators-Collection-Stony-Oak-Smoke-8-in-Wide-x-48-in-Length-Click-Floating-luxury-vinyl-plank-flooring-18-22-sq-ft-case-360483/304051043

I like how it's warm and has some gray in it, which will match my ceiling/walls.

I'm also considering Lifeproof brand but that is much pricier.

[Papa bear]

Do not use dmx airflow underlayment under a vinyl product.

I used it in my basement as I really liked the properties, has some insulation value, and can dry out from underneath.  It’s also rated to work under vinyl.  Boy did that not work out.  It has too much give to it and the end seems on lock and click vinyl tend to pop up when you walk on the floor. Boy was I disappointed. 

I would definitely use an underlayment though, and if you have enough ceiling height, consider something that has the dimpleing for air flow and osb for structure. 

For your HVAC closet, consider noise.  You may want to insulate the walls and ceiling to reduce the noise coming out of there.  If you ever want a quiet area for TV/theater, you will thank yourself later. 

Any wood that touches concrete should be pressure treated.  Wood can wick water up from concrete and you do not want rot. Also consider mold resistant drywall for your entire project.  It’s probably double the cost for the drywall, but is immaterial given the total costs of the project. 

I’m not a fan of the bare ceiling that is painted.  I also don’t like drop ceilings.  It’s drywall, wood slats (surface screwed to pull down later if needed), or keep it as is for me. 

Have you thought about plumbing? A full or 1/2 bath is killer for a basement! This is the time to rough that in.  In fact, this is the time to rough everything in before finishing.  Overdo your rough ins for later, extra romex lines, plumb out extra for future bathrooms, run a gas line out to the backyard, run spear wire, cat6 cable, cable line, etc.  do this all now!


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Tagging @Papa bear , @lthenderson @zolotiyeruki since you all clearly know what you're talking about.

A friend of mine came over this weekend and helped me frame in the partition wall.  All went well except...the bottom 2x4s are not pressure treated. Basically I thought I bought pressure treated but didn't (Home Depot's setup is extremely confusing). He mentioned it wasn't pressure treated but I was so eager to get started that I said "fuck it" and put it in. He said if I don't get water down there then it's not a big deal; now I'm regretting it.

I'd hate to take the entire thing down. The bottom plate is only screwed into the floor. So my thought is to take a sawzall to the bottom plate, saw it out and unscrew it, put a new one under, and nail that in. I can't decide whether this is stupid or not.

***

Regarding plumbing, I am thinking of putting a urinal down there. Perhaps tacky but I don't care. Function over form 10/10.

***

Would you put anything under vinyl plank flooring? I'm thinking of something like this -- https://www.homedepot.com/p/Home-Decorators-Collection-Stony-Oak-Smoke-8-in-Wide-x-48-in-Length-Click-Floating-luxury-vinyl-plank-flooring-18-22-sq-ft-case-360483/304051043

I like how it's warm and has some gray in it, which will match my ceiling/walls.

I'm also considering Lifeproof brand but that is much pricier.

It’s probably not the end of the world to have one bottom plate not be treated.  I’ve been in plenty of basements where they aren’t and things seem to hold up fine without any water problems.  But, if it were my place, I would consider taking it out depending on: how close to a wall or water infiltration point it is, and how long the wall is.

If your LVT has an underlayment, you don’t need to have anything else.  But, as in most flooring, your subfloor needs to be flat, without bumps, or holes.  If it’s in really good shape, you can lay that LVT directly over the concrete pad.

I’ve been using the lifeproof line of LVT for awhile now, just for the ease of buying it and install times, especially for smaller projects like bathrooms. It’s not worth it for me to price out and save a buck a sf on a bathroom under 40sf. 

I’ve used lower cost stuff and it all works out just fine, though.  Just make sure you follow the install instructions correctly, and you have a good subfloor, and you’ll be fine.

A urinal would be cool in a “man cave,” but I would still make sure to plumb out or install an actual toilet too. 


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[zolotiyeruki]

As a father of four boys, I wish our kids' bathroom had a urinal...

I can't speak to LVT, as I've never installed it.  I put in sheet vinyl in our basement bathroom (Menards sells 6x9 sheets just for that purpose for $25!), and the rest of the finished space in our basement has carpet.

Personally, I'd take the time to replace the bottom plate.  I'm guessing that you're not pulling a permit for this work?  If not, then you don't have to worry about an inspector flagging it.  I'd take the sawzall and run it flush with the botttom plate, to cut all the nails, then unscrew it and knock it out and replace it. It's not just a flooding basement you need to worry about, it's also moisture wicking up through the concrete that's an issue.  If you don't want to deal with PT wood, you could instead put down a sill seal, which is basically a 3.5"-wide foam strip that you lay on the floor under your bottom plate.  You'd have to remove the bottom plate to get it anyway.

Projects are exciting, but it's important to take the time to do it right.  Down the road, you won't find yourself worrying about whether it'll come back to bite you.

[ReadySetMillionaire]

Thanks @Papa bear and @zolotiyeruki

Talked to a contractor client of mine today. He recommended using T1-11 plywood instead of drywall for basement. Said it’s way less susceptible to moisture and 1,000x easier. Have to say I’m quite intrigued.

It’s more expensive than drywall but still way under paying someone to do the drywall. I think I’m going to pull the trigger.

[nereo]

Casually following along RSM.  We're doing a live-in, whole house Reno one room at a time, and we've replaced much of the flooring with LVT.  Echoing Papa Bear, make sure the subfloor is flat with no bumps and it goes down fast and (by all indications) lasts for decades. It took me a bit of time to learn how to get each plank to connect so there was no seam anywhere, but once I figured it out I could lay down several boxes per hour in a rectangular room.  Obviously cutting tricky segments slows things down.

Never used T1-11 plywood, curious how it goes.  What are you planning on doing for the screw-holes?  Cover with epoxy or just let them show? 

[Papa bear]

T1-11 siding is a pretty rough finish, I wouldn’t want that inside my house.  I’ve really only used it for sheds and such.

My vote is for mold resistant drywall. But not my house!


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[nereo]

T1-11 siding is a pretty rough finish, I wouldn’t want that inside my house.  I’ve really only used it for sheds and such.

My vote is for mold resistant drywall. But not my house!

We used Mold-Guard 1/2" gypsum board (drywall) in our basement and mud room.  It's worked well thus far.
Drywalling is one of my least favorite tasks, as it seems to take me substantially longer to do a slightly worse job than the pros.  Most everythuing else I can do as good as most run-of-the-mill contractors, albeit slower.

[Fishindude]

My dad did the walls of his basement in T-111.   I think it's ugly as sh#t.
If you want wood walls, I'd do T&G car siding, pine or cedar.

I'd definitely do the urinal.   Wish I had one in my man cave.

[ReadySetMillionaire]

My dad did the walls of his basement in T-111.   I think it's ugly as sh#t.
If you want wood walls, I'd do T&G car siding, pine or cedar.

I'd definitely do the urinal.   Wish I had one in my man cave.

Based on your post, I went to Lowe's just to look at the T1-11 during my lunch break. It's way rougher texture-wise than I thought. I don't even think it could be sanded just by the way it's put together.

I'm remarkably indecisive about these types of things, but now I got into that groove/beadboard look. I think that would look really sharp in a basement. There is a lot nicer and smoother stuff than T1-11.

So now I'm contemplating putting up 3/8 drywall with 3/8 beadboard on top. Expensive but not much more expensive than T1-11. Might be a reasonable compromise.

***

Just an FYI, my budget for the entire project -- furniture, TVs, flooring, everything -- is about $6,000.  I'm not sure if that's a lot or a little but I think it's alright given that the intent is "finish for life."

[nereo]

My dad did the walls of his basement in T-111.   I think it's ugly as sh#t.
If you want wood walls, I'd do T&G car siding, pine or cedar.

I'd definitely do the urinal.   Wish I had one in my man cave.

Based on your post, I went to Lowe's just to look at the T1-11 during my lunch break. It's way rougher texture-wise than I thought. I don't even think it could be sanded just by the way it's put together.

I'm remarkably indecisive about these types of things, but now I got into that groove/beadboard look. I think that would look really sharp in a basement. There is a lot nicer and smoother stuff than T1-11.

So now I'm contemplating putting up 3/8 drywall with 3/8 beadboard on top. Expensive but not much more expensive than T1-11. Might be a reasonable compromise.

***

Just an FYI, my budget for the entire project -- furniture, TVs, flooring, everything -- is about $6,000.  I'm not sure if that's a lot or a little but I think it's alright given that the intent is "finish for life."

Oh JESUS-FUCK-NO!

Ok, perhaps too strong of a reaction, but here me out:  I’m Reno-ing our house, which is a 100+ year old former farmhouse that’s been added onto at least four times.  THere is Beadboard in EVERY. DAMN. ROOM.

Why my anger?  It’s ANNOYING AS HELL TO PAINT, much harder to repair, and surprisingly difficult to change “the look” vs. a normal wall with drywall and trim.
We’ve spent two weekends repairing and painting the headboard in just one room, and it’s far from done.  In a similar amount of time we could have finished at least 3 similar sized rooms.  Oh, but they all have bead board in them too. 

[ReadySetMillionaire]

Oh JESUS-FUCK-NO!

Ok, perhaps too strong of a reaction, but here me out:  I’m Reno-ing our house, which is a 100+ year old former farmhouse that’s been added onto at least four times.  THere is Beadboard in EVERY. DAMN. ROOM.

Why my anger?  It’s ANNOYING AS HELL TO PAINT, much harder to repair, and surprisingly difficult to change “the look” vs. a normal wall with drywall and trim.
We’ve spent two weekends repairing and painting the headboard in just one room, and it’s far from done.  In a similar amount of time we could have finished at least 3 similar sized rooms.  Oh, but they all have bead board in them too.

My issue is exactly the opposite -- every square inch of my house is drywall, so the idea of having the basement be different is appealing to me.

I think it's why I have an inclination to keep a lot of the cinder exposed (on at least one wall, possibly two). Everything in the entire house is so neat and perfect; the idea that the basement is also the same just seems boring to me.

Probably over-thinking it like I do with everything else.

[nereo]

Alright, reading over my post it was way over the top.  It was fueled by the pain in my wrist from hours of hand-painting bead board, and the mantra of “I’m not putting bead board in my next house, no way!”  Truth be told I installed it in the first set of built-ins I did several years ago, and - in moderation - it can look great.

Just know that it will add a substantial amount of time over drywall to look good...both now and anytime in the future when you decide to re-paint.  And whenever some klutz inadvertently bangs a heavy piece of furniture into it when shuffling things around.  Or when a toddler decides to crayon the wall instead of her coloring book.  I mean... i imagine all those things might happen to someone in the space of a few weeks ...

[travel2020]

My dad did the walls of his basement in T-111.   I think it's ugly as sh#t.
If you want wood walls, I'd do T&G car siding, pine or cedar.

I'd definitely do the urinal.   Wish I had one in my man cave.

Based on your post, I went to Lowe's just to look at the T1-11 during my lunch break. It's way rougher texture-wise than I thought. I don't even think it could be sanded just by the way it's put together.

I'm remarkably indecisive about these types of things, but now I got into that groove/beadboard look. I think that would look really sharp in a basement. There is a lot nicer and smoother stuff than T1-11.

So now I'm contemplating putting up 3/8 drywall with 3/8 beadboard on top. Expensive but not much more expensive than T1-11. Might be a reasonable compromise.

***

Just an FYI, my budget for the entire project -- furniture, TVs, flooring, everything -- is about $6,000.  I'm not sure if that's a lot or a little but I think it's alright given that the intent is "finish for life."

Re drywall vs a different material for the basement, our previous house had an unfinished basement that turned into a DIY project. Like you, I was concerned about doing drywall on my own and ended up doing tongue and groove pine paneling top to bottom directly on the frame with some horizontal wood strips. Turned out to be quite simple to work with and cost was only slightly higher at the time. The pine with light clear varnish look worked well overall and gave the basement a very different and cozy feel vs rest of the house. So depending on what look you want overall, IMHO it’s worth exploring different materials.

[ReadySetMillionaire]

My dad did the walls of his basement in T-111.   I think it's ugly as sh#t.
If you want wood walls, I'd do T&G car siding, pine or cedar.

I'd definitely do the urinal.   Wish I had one in my man cave.

Based on your post, I went to Lowe's just to look at the T1-11 during my lunch break. It's way rougher texture-wise than I thought. I don't even think it could be sanded just by the way it's put together.

I'm remarkably indecisive about these types of things, but now I got into that groove/beadboard look. I think that would look really sharp in a basement. There is a lot nicer and smoother stuff than T1-11.

So now I'm contemplating putting up 3/8 drywall with 3/8 beadboard on top. Expensive but not much more expensive than T1-11. Might be a reasonable compromise.

***

Just an FYI, my budget for the entire project -- furniture, TVs, flooring, everything -- is about $6,000.  I'm not sure if that's a lot or a little but I think it's alright given that the intent is "finish for life."

Re drywall vs a different material for the basement, our previous house had an unfinished basement that turned into a DIY project. Like you, I was concerned about doing drywall on my own and ended up doing tongue and groove pine paneling top to bottom directly on the frame with some horizontal wood strips. Turned out to be quite simple to work with and cost was only slightly higher at the time. The pine with light clear varnish look worked well overall and gave the basement a very different and cozy feel vs rest of the house. So depending on what look you want overall, IMHO it’s worth exploring different materials.

Thanks. Just curious between you and @nereo -- would using beadboard or that pine make doing electrical/access panel cutouts remarkably difficult? What about mounting TVs?

I'm trying to balance easy DIY with long term function; and it doesn't seem like anything is the perfect fit.

[nereo]

No, nothing is perfect ;-)

The only challenge you run into with electrical and mounting things on bead board is the added layer (and density) makes finding studs more difficult.  Electronic stud-finders become useless, so you have to resort to other methods (the “knock & tap” will also not work well). If the bead-board is going only half-way up the wall you can find the stud above and just follow it down.  Or you can follow an existing outlet and measure (assuming you’ve got uniform spacing, e.g. 16” OC). Mounting junction boxes is basically the same... cut the hole, attach to the stud, put a faceplate over it.  Laying out your electrical (even if its just blank boxes) before doing finish work is always recommended, as it’s much harder after the fact... if you need to run additional wires your only option is to cut several holes in the bead board and try to hide them as best you can. We had to do this to access a shower manifold and our ultimate solution was to carefully cut out a 2’ x 3’ panel following one of the groves, and then replace and carefully seal the seam with caulk before repainting.  Most people will not notice the fix walking by, but I see it, and after I’ve told people about it everyone’s been able to spot the fix.  So again - it won’t be seamless after cutting a sizable hole, unlike drywall.

THe other problem you will have is what to do with the holes down the line.  If you decide to move your wall-mounted TV or bookcases or whatever you need to fill those holes. This is my current challenge, as the previous two owners drilled LOTS of holes in various places and did a crap-tactic job of filling them afterwords.   Plywood you can use putty (ugly) or plugs (finicky), but they will always show.  With bead-board you can cover them up with painter’s caulk and then repaint, but close inspection almost always shows where they were, especially if they are bigger holes (e.g. 1/4” lag bolts).  With Drywall you can patch, sand and repaint and if you have some skill no one will ever be able to detect those holes.

[lthenderson]

That is a great point Nereo. I have all drywall and love the fact that no matter what happens from a errant board punching a hole in it to removing a television and wanting to cover up the damage and make it look new again, it is possible with enough time and effort. Sometimes I put on primer and realize it is still noticeable so I do some more sanding and mudding but eventually I am able to get it right. It's almost impossible to do that with bead board.

[nereo]

One other thing I caught from your earlier post, RSM - I personally dislike 3/8” drywall. Sure, it’s lighter and **slightly** cheaper, but I find it much harder to get a seamless finish.  It’s also more prone to damage and less of an accoustic and fire block.

FWIW I prefer to stick with 1/2” drywall throughout.  At ~$1 more per sheet your total cost will likely only go up $20-$30 for the entire basement, but IMO it’s just easier and better to work with.   

Other people might disagree (feel free to chime in!).  I’m admittedly a novice drywaller that takes 3x the time to do the same job as a pro, but I *can* get it to look almost as good with that extra time.

[ReadySetMillionaire]

I know I probably sound idealistic, but I really can’t see moving anything once it’s up. I’m the type of person that puts something somewhere and leaves it there forever.

Really good point about the studs though. I guess since I am dealing with an empty space right now, I can put up the framing, and then put string up from the floor joists so they are parallel with the studs. Then I can move the string when I install the drywall (and maybe bead board) and then put it back down when it’s time to find the studs. I was also thinking of just putting the mounts on already and cutting the drywall/bead board around them, almost like an outlet cutout.

All this waffling makes my head hurt.

[nereo]

All this waffling makes my head hurt.

Welcome to home renovation! 
I find it easier to make decisions on rental properties.  There the it just has to look decent but speed, cost and durability play very high roles.  When it's my own home I'm willing to try something far more complex for a small gain, like turning an odd corner into a built-in with pull out shelves.

But overdesigning spaces is a BIG pitfall.  Don't let perfect be the enemy of done.

I will add that putting up bead board isn't terribly difficult, and it can look really nice.  The headaches come later, either for you or for a future owner of your home.  If you are certain you can get all the plugs and holes where you want them on your first try, go for it.  But every fix down the road is going to be far more annoying to deal with. 

[ReadySetMillionaire]

All this waffling makes my head hurt.

Welcome to home renovation! 
I find it easier to make decisions on rental properties.  There the it just has to look decent but speed, cost and durability play very high roles.  When it's my own home I'm willing to try something far more complex for a small gain, like turning an odd corner into a built-in with pull out shelves.

But overdesigning spaces is a BIG pitfall.  Don't let perfect be the enemy of done.

I will add that putting up bead board isn't terribly difficult, and it can look really nice.  The headaches come later, either for you or for a future owner of your home.  If you are certain you can get all the plugs and holes where you want them on your first try, go for it.  But every fix down the road is going to be far more annoying to deal with.

I guess the quiz is whether I want more annoyance up front (drywall) or on the back end (bead board). I'm thinking bead board.

Due to all my waffling and concerns brought up in this thread, I'm having a home-builder client of mine come over for two hours Friday. Going to walk through plans and then start to get stuff done.

[Bradfurd]

I'm in the finishing stages of finishing mine and figured I would drop you a few items to consider:

Framing isn't bad...some people build the walls on the floor and tilt them up, but I found that shooting in my bottom track and using a scrap stud and a 4' level to layout the top track from the bottom worked well. Then you can cut and install each stud individually to ensure proper fit...

I subbed out my drywall work. Hanging it on the wall framing is no big deal, but experienced finishers are worth the $. It is a time consuming process, and an art. Minimize your butt joints (long edge of each board will be tapered, these joints are easier for the finisher)

I used moisture resistant (purple) 1/2" drywall...I think it was around $21 per 4x12 sheet vs. $15 or so for standard drywall

Are you making any decisions based on what hypothetical future buyers may find attractive or deem more "finished"?

Good luck!

[jps]

ptf

[travel2020]

My dad did the walls of his basement in T-111.   I think it's ugly as sh#t.
If you want wood walls, I'd do T&G car siding, pine or cedar.

I'd definitely do the urinal.   Wish I had one in my man cave.

Based on your post, I went to Lowe's just to look at the T1-11 during my lunch break. It's way rougher texture-wise than I thought. I don't even think it could be sanded just by the way it's put together.

I'm remarkably indecisive about these types of things, but now I got into that groove/beadboard look. I think that would look really sharp in a basement. There is a lot nicer and smoother stuff than T1-11.

So now I'm contemplating putting up 3/8 drywall with 3/8 beadboard on top. Expensive but not much more expensive than T1-11. Might be a reasonable compromise.

***

Just an FYI, my budget for the entire project -- furniture, TVs, flooring, everything -- is about $6,000.  I'm not sure if that's a lot or a little but I think it's alright given that the intent is "finish for life."

Re drywall vs a different material for the basement, our previous house had an unfinished basement that turned into a DIY project. Like you, I was concerned about doing drywall on my own and ended up doing tongue and groove pine paneling top to bottom directly on the frame with some horizontal wood strips. Turned out to be quite simple to work with and cost was only slightly higher at the time. The pine with light clear varnish look worked well overall and gave the basement a very different and cozy feel vs rest of the house. So depending on what look you want overall, IMHO it’s worth exploring different materials.

Thanks. Just curious between you and @nereo -- would using beadboard or that pine make doing electrical/access panel cutouts remarkably difficult? What about mounting TVs?

I'm trying to balance easy DIY with long term function; and it doesn't seem like anything is the perfect fit.

The place we were in then required licensed electrician to do the work so I finished the framing and then had an electrical contractor come in and install all the outlets and wiring before putting any paneling. Had a good idea of where we wanted the outlets and for good measure included a few extra ones. Had it all inspected before doing the wall finishing work and it was pretty simple to cut holes in the wood for the outlets and switches. Highly recommend getting the electrical work done and electrical inspections completed if needed before any drywall or headboards are installed.

[lthenderson]

Really good point about the studs though. I guess since I am dealing with an empty space right now, I can put up the framing, and then put string up from the floor joists so they are parallel with the studs. Then I can move the string when I install the drywall (and maybe bead board) and then put it back down when it’s time to find the studs.

Or as long as you used fasteners made from metal to put up the bead board, just grab a magnet. Swiping it back and forth along the wall until you find a magnetic spot then will tell you where the studs were. Not as easy as fast but definitely works well and I have used it often in the past when conventional stud detectors don't work.

[lthenderson]

FWIW I prefer to stick with 1/2” drywall throughout.  At ~$1 more per sheet your total cost will likely only go up $20-$30 for the entire basement, but IMO it’s just easier and better to work with.   

+1 Also, unless you do a perfect job with your framing, 3/8" has a tendency to get wavy between studs and it can look terrible when using the wall as a sight line.

[ReadySetMillionaire]

FWIW I prefer to stick with 1/2” drywall throughout.  At ~$1 more per sheet your total cost will likely only go up $20-$30 for the entire basement, but IMO it’s just easier and better to work with.   

+1 Also, unless you do a perfect job with your framing, 3/8" has a tendency to get wavy between studs and it can look terrible when using the wall as a sight line.

Half inch drywall it is.

[NextTime]

Really good point about the studs though. I guess since I am dealing with an empty space right now, I can put up the framing, and then put string up from the floor joists so they are parallel with the studs. Then I can move the string when I install the drywall (and maybe bead board) and then put it back down when it’s time to find the studs.

Or as long as you used fasteners made from metal to put up the bead board, just grab a magnet. Swiping it back and forth along the wall until you find a magnetic spot then will tell you where the studs were. Not as easy as fast but definitely works well and I have used it often in the past when conventional stud detectors don't work.

The magnet on this little guy is ridiculously strong. It's my go to stud finder.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000IKK0OI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[nereo]

The magnet on this little guy is ridiculously strong. It's my go to stud finder.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000IKK0OI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Following that link, you can buy one for $7.49, or a two-pack for $44.70.  Might as well get two!

seriously, though - those magnetic stud-finders are great; they use rare-earth magnets to locate every drywall screw.  I take painter's tape and mark the locaiton of a few screws, making the studs and their spacing quite obvious.  You can even tell where two drywall panels meet (there will be a double-line of screws along a stud).

[ReadySetMillionaire]

Contractor friend came over today and gave me the green light on my general plans.

One thing he mentioned was whether or not to finish the "far" wall -- the wall "above" (in this graphic) the ping pong table and exercise equipment:



He said it's mostly a design choice, but that finishing that wall might be worth it to make the basement warmer. The "bottom" wall (with the staircase) is against a crawl space, so that would be relatively cold. He said you might want to finish the "top" wall to insulate more.

My guess is finishing that wall -- framing, drywall, bead board, paint -- would be $300.

Any thoughts?

[nereo]

Besides saving $300 and some time, is there any reason NOT to finish the wall? 

I guess I’m not understanding why you’d leave one wall unfinished when the thread topic is: Help me FINISH my unfinished basement.

...$300 isn’t a ton of money for this sort of thing, and easier to do it all in one shot.  I’d go to completion unless there’s a good reason not to (e.g. access to utilities that will likely be needed in future projects, or grander plans down the line).

[lthenderson]

I'm with Nereo on this, I wouldn't go to all the trouble and not finish all the walls except for perhaps the inside of the utility space. Insulation and drywall are cheap comparatively speaking to other home improvement projects.

[ReadySetMillionaire]

I guess it's a design choice. I still want it to look and feel like a basement. I simply don't like being in one of those super nice, completely finished basements, where everything is perfect. It doesn't feel like a basement to me.

That said, I'm going to finish that "top" wall. That means the only real visible wall that will be unfinished will be the wall behind (to the right of) the exercise area. There are several water valves on that wall, and the electric box is on that wall, and I don't want to mess with it.

[ReadySetMillionaire]

Now that I've been down there working, my wife says it is really, really loud, and you can hear it through the whole house.

Any ideas on how I can keep the ceiling unfinished *and* reduce sound coming upstairs? Or is this the "best of both worlds" thing that can't really functionally happen?

[zolotiyeruki]

Any ideas on how I can keep the ceiling unfinished *and* reduce sound coming upstairs? Or is this the "best of both worlds" thing that can't really functionally happen?

Not really, because you need something to absorb and/or block the sound from transmitting to the rest of the house.  Insulation batts can absorb some sound, and drywall or other ceiling panels can block some as well.

[ReadySetMillionaire]

Anybody have any experience with this brand of flooring?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Home-Decorators-Collection-Stony-Oak-Smoke-8-in-Wide-x-48-in-Length-Click-Floating-luxury-vinyl-plank-flooring-18-22-sq-ft-case-360483/304051043

Seems to be a medium grade which is what I'm looking for. Installation looks super easy. I like the dark brown with grays in it since I will be painting the ceiling/walls gray.

If anybody has another product in a similar price range that they'd recommend for a basement, I'd be interested.

[Papa bear]

I haven’t used that, but it looks like all the others.  Should be straight forward to install.

As for noise?  You can’t stop noise without adding a barrier and mass.  So short answer, no way to soundproof if you don’t finish the ceiling. 

If you want to soundproof, you can decouple your drywall from the joists, do a double layer of 5/8 drywall with green glue in between, and pack the floor joists with rock wool sound insulation, like rock wool safe n sound.


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[nereo]

Anybody have any experience with this brand of flooring?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Home-Decorators-Collection-Stony-Oak-Smoke-8-in-Wide-x-48-in-Length-Click-Floating-luxury-vinyl-plank-flooring-18-22-sq-ft-case-360483/304051043

Seems to be a medium grade which is what I'm looking for. Installation looks super easy. I like the dark brown with grays in it since I will be painting the ceiling/walls gray.

If anybody has another product in a similar price range that they'd recommend for a basement, I'd be interested.

I used that line of HD flooring in our previous home.  It will work fine **as long as your floor is smooth and level**.  It's a bit thinner than the higher-end lines (IIRC LifeProof - also an HD brand - has an underlayment that's about 50% thicker, and therefore better able to bridge some subfloor imperfections).

It takes a bit of time to get used to, but read the directions and be deliberate and you should be fine.  Important to start in the left-hand corner of a room, with the tongue facing away from you (towards the wall).  I lay down a course and rather than bang on it with a mallet (tempting!) I find it works much better if I line it up carefully and then pull it into place with my fingers until the seam dissapears.  If it's not going in by hand somewhere along the length of the board it's no lining up right.
Only use the mallet to close the final mm gap if you can't do it with your fingers, and then only with a scrap piece or a pull bar.  The danger with the mallet is its very easy to crack the click-lock portion of the panel, and then it won't click together tight.

You should not be able to see or feel a seam when you are done.  Sometimes when you lay the next board it can nudge the previous one out of alignment.  THat's ok... I just go back and push them back into place.  Once I do a full row (a "course"), I click them all into place using the mallet nad a scrap piece of wood over hte seams.  I can actrually hear the click when I'm wearing hearing protection.  If I'm not then the sound of the hammer is too loud.

[ReadySetMillionaire]

Anybody have any experience with this brand of flooring?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Home-Decorators-Collection-Stony-Oak-Smoke-8-in-Wide-x-48-in-Length-Click-Floating-luxury-vinyl-plank-flooring-18-22-sq-ft-case-360483/304051043

Seems to be a medium grade which is what I'm looking for. Installation looks super easy. I like the dark brown with grays in it since I will be painting the ceiling/walls gray.

If anybody has another product in a similar price range that they'd recommend for a basement, I'd be interested.

I used that line of HD flooring in our previous home.  It will work fine **as long as your floor is smooth and level**.  It's a bit thinner than the higher-end lines (IIRC LifeProof - also an HD brand - has an underlayment that's about 50% thicker, and therefore better able to bridge some subfloor imperfections).

It takes a bit of time to get used to, but read the directions and be deliberate and you should be fine.  Important to start in the left-hand corner of a room, with the tongue facing away from you (towards the wall).  I lay down a course and rather than bang on it with a mallet (tempting!) I find it works much better if I line it up carefully and then pull it into place with my fingers until the seam dissapears.  If it's not going in by hand somewhere along the length of the board it's no lining up right.
Only use the mallet to close the final mm gap if you can't do it with your fingers, and then only with a scrap piece or a pull bar.  The danger with the mallet is its very easy to crack the click-lock portion of the panel, and then it won't click together tight.

You should not be able to see or feel a seam when you are done.  Sometimes when you lay the next board it can nudge the previous one out of alignment.  THat's ok... I just go back and push them back into place.  Once I do a full row (a "course"), I click them all into place using the mallet nad a scrap piece of wood over hte seams.  I can actrually hear the click when I'm wearing hearing protection.  If I'm not then the sound of the hammer is too loud.

Thanks. I'm glad you thought it was relatively easy to install.  Per your advice  I'm buying a good level (need one anyway) and I'm going to walk around the floor in various parts to make sure it's flat.

If it's not then I will probably do commercial glue down floor or carpet.

***

On another important note, what do you guys think of the lighting here --



The plan is for those light blue/purple outline boxes to be sconce lights. Then I was going to have overhead lights on top of the card table and the ping pong table.

I hated the recess lighting in my old basement so wanted to do something different; I think I'm on the right track here in terms of upward/downward light and natural light. Just wondering if there's anything I might be missing.

***

Also, the seating has changed because I've pretty much established I'm never going to be able to get a sectional into my basement unless it breaks up into 3 or 4 parts, and those are both hard to find and uncomfortable. So two recliners and a loveseat/small couch is the new plan.

[nereo]

Thanks. I'm glad you thought it was relatively easy to install.  Per your advice  I'm buying a good level (need one anyway) and I'm going to walk around the floor in various parts to make sure it's flat.

You don't really need a good level to measure floor flatness for this. It can tilt to one side or another an inch or so as long as the tilt is uniform.  The flooring is forgiving enough that you can eyeball it most of the time to see if its a problem. 
Are there gaps where the floor raises > 1/8" (e.g. cracks in the pavement or a subfloor panel that sticks up)?  If you lay down a straight(ish) 8-foot piece of 2x4 is there a dip in the floor big enough for you to get your pinky finger under the board?  If you answered "no" to both of these questions you should be fine.

If you answered 'yes" you can use self-leveling compound on your subfloor.  Works great, just amke sure you have everything lined up because your wokring time is very short (usually 15-20 minutes depending on temp). 

Regardless of oyur flooring type, a level subfloor is always a good thing.  This is true with LVP, with tile, and even with carpet. 

[ReadySetMillionaire]

Any thoughts on whether buying a nailgun is worth it?

There's a lot to trim to do in the basement (beadboard, baseboard, ceiling trim). I also have a lot of other trim projects around the house -- bathrooms, bedroom (desperately needs it, as prior owners seemed to stop mid-renovation), wood trim, etc.

There's a Ryobi for $200 (tool, nails, battery) that would arguably be a good tool to have long term. But, I don't like to drop $200 if I don't have to.

[zolotiyeruki]

Look on your local craigslist/bookoo/facebook marketplace to buy one used.  I've only used cordless framing nailers (Paslode) and pneumatic trim nailers, so I can't speak for the battery-only type.  A pneumatic one will last basically forever and will never need new batteries.

[Papa bear]

Any thoughts on whether buying a nailgun is worth it?

There's a lot to trim to do in the basement (beadboard, baseboard, ceiling trim). I also have a lot of other trim projects around the house -- bathrooms, bedroom (desperately needs it, as prior owners seemed to stop mid-renovation), wood trim, etc.

There's a Ryobi for $200 (tool, nails, battery) that would arguably be a good tool to have long term. But, I don't like to drop $200 if I don't have to.

Was your plan to hand nail everything instead? Do you have a compressor? If you do, I’d buy an 18 gauge pneumatic brad nailer.  You may even want to take a look at harbor freight air tools.  They’ve actually held up fairly well for me.  De

If you don’t have a compressor, I’ve used the ryobi.   It works just fine and comes in handy. But I guess I’m used to a pneumatic nailer and prefer to use that, though I switch back between the 18 gauge brad and the pin nailer.  That thing is great for your miters and really small moldings.

So I guess the answer is yes, it’s worth it to have the nail gun.  I’ve trimmed out projects without it, and I don’t get as good of a look when I’m hand nailing. It’s hard to keep things tight together and then hold a nail and a hammer.


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[lthenderson]

I wouldn't do much trim by hand anymore after doing so with a nail gun. Hand trimming is a lot of work and the holes you leave with traditional finish nails are big and really need to be filled to look good. It is also a skill to be able to drive a finish nail in as far as possible without going to far and denting the wood. You also need to have a nail set which is another tool you have to carry around. Also with a nail gun, you can use brads which though visible upon close inspection but really do blend in from a distance of a few feet so I don't even fill them anymore unless in a highly visible area.

As far as pneumatic or battery, I used pneumatic for many years now (probably close to a decade) and they work just fine. But due to sort of an accident last year, I ended up with a battery operated 18 ga nailer and used it to finish trimming my latest remodeling project. I think I am going to be a battery nail gun person for the rest of my life. It is just so handy not having to deal with long air compressor cords, the loud noise of the compressor refilling, etc. The battery nailer did just as good of job and had just as much dial in control of setting the nails as my pneumatic one did. The one drawback is that it was a little bit bigger than my pneumatic nailer of the same size so it couldn't get into as tight of spots but worked great for the other 98% of the time. Although this one doesn't use the same batteries as the large majority of my tools, I will probably keep it for now but if I ever run into one that uses my same battery system, I would for sure probably buy it.