Author Topic: Backyard gardeners, how big is your yard?  (Read 15571 times)

gooeydruid

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Backyard gardeners, how big is your yard?
« on: November 08, 2012, 06:58:43 PM »
My wife and I are looking at buying our first house in the next 12 months. Finally graduating from graduate school and going to live with the parents while we save up to buy a house, as where we're going it makes more sense to buy as rental prices are high and houses are actually pretty cheap.

The houses that are in our price range typically come with 8000-12000 sq. ft lots. Looking at pictures of these backyards on Zillow, the backyards are manageable, but not huge. Right after we buy I want to till up some of it and start gardening to finally end some of my reliance on grocery stores.
So out of curiosity, what size lots are the rest of you using to grow your own gardens?

Another Reader

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Re: Backyard gardeners, how big is your yard?
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2012, 07:20:10 PM »
I have a 20 x 24 foot raised plot.  I get composted horse manure every year from a friend with too many horses and that gets dug in about now.  The plot accommodates green beans, peas, lettuce, peppers, tomatoes, salad greens, zucchini and corn.  Peas and lettuce come in early and the rest start producing in June.  You could easily feed six off that plot all summer and still have lots of vegetables to freeze and give away. 

However, growing a vegetable garden is not cheap in my suburban neighborhood because of the cost of the water.  The garden easily adds $100 or more to the water bill over the course of the growing season.   It's hard to justify that when vegetable prices are so cheap in the growing season.  This year I did not plant a garden in part because of the water cost.  It's an important consideration, so figure out what you will pay for the water before you design the garden.

happy

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Re: Backyard gardeners, how big is your yard?
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2012, 07:32:45 PM »
You can grow enough food  on the 8000-12000 sq ft block, but some will be easier than others depending on the layout.

I would pay more attention to whether it is flat or at least not too steep, well drained, and how sunny it is. If you are in northern hemisphere you need a south facing garden.

If you collect rainwater from your roof into tanks you can irrigate the veges for free: again is there space to put a tank in? if thats what you wish to do.

I current have about 40sq feet for herbs, and 40 sq feet for veges. However i'm just starting with veges and can see I will easily use 2 or 3 times that space.

jawisco

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Re: Backyard gardeners, how big is your yard?
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2012, 08:24:03 PM »
I agree that a lot like that is plenty big for a good garden.

I also agree that slope and sun exposure is really very important for growing a good garden and really essential for success - there is a thing called a solar pathfinder that you can bring to any piece of ground and immediately see what the sun exposure will be for the whole year.  It is a pricey gadget, but you may be able to borrow one from a PV installer. 

zinnie

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Re: Backyard gardeners, how big is your yard?
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2012, 10:03:01 PM »
I have a tiny lot and only have enough space for one 5'x8' raised bed and assorted pots but we do square foot gardening and can grow tons of veggies in that small space. With a second box that size we'd easily have enough to feed us all produce, as we almost have enough now. Look into SFG if you're worried about space, but that sounds like plenty of room assuming you aren't doing row crops.

atelierk

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Re: Backyard gardeners, how big is your yard?
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2012, 05:42:55 AM »
I actually have 1.8 acres but only garden on a small part of that, maybe 1000 square feet (including paths around the raised beds) or so. Many, many people raise all the food they need for their families on lots of a quarter-acre or so. Also, if you're in a mild climate you can grow something year-round - but even if you're not, season extension techniques will keep you harvesting for a surprisingly long period.

As you're looking at these properties, make sure the yard will get enough sun. This time of year, it can be very difficult to visualize the shade patterns of surrounding trees. Vegetable gardens need, at a minimum 6 hours of full sun a day - 8 to 10 is even better.

As for the water costs that were mentioned: a good rainharvesting system will make a huge dent in that. And plants generally prefer soft rainwater to chemically-laden municipal water anyway.

Melissa

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Re: Backyard gardeners, how big is your yard?
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2012, 06:43:44 AM »
Quote
However, growing a vegetable garden is not cheap in my suburban neighborhood because of the cost of the water.  The garden easily adds $100 or more to the water bill over the course of the growing season.   It's hard to justify that when vegetable prices are so cheap in the growing season.  This year I did not plant a garden in part because of the water cost.  It's an important consideration, so figure out what you will pay for the water before you design the garden.

Where do you live that it costs so much to water?  We have a 50x50ft garden and our water bill only goes up $10 during the summer season.  How are you watering?  A drip irrigation system would use little water and then you won't lose so much to evaporation.  If you don't want the added expense you could use a water wand to be more point specific about where you water.

Melissa

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Re: Backyard gardeners, how big is your yard?
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2012, 06:46:03 AM »
You could check books out of your library on square foot gardening or vertical gardening.  Both are great for vegetable production with limited space

sibamor

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Re: Backyard gardeners, how big is your yard?
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2012, 08:17:16 AM »
Look at some books on Homesteading.  I recommend this one: http://www.amazon.com/Homesteading-Chickens-Generating-Crafting-Medicine/dp/1602397473

They challenge is not necessarily size of lot but maximizing the density of your gardening.


Erica/NWEdible

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Re: Backyard gardeners, how big is your yard?
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2012, 02:56:48 PM »
Sunlight, soil and slope is more important than size, particularly if you stay away from field crops, corn, and orcharding. We're on a generous 1/3rd of an acre, say 15,000 sq ft, with a big-ass house, a lawn (more than I'd like, actually), greenhouse, chicken coop, lots of storage space, a shed, a dedicated "patio" type space....If anything it's too big. The heart of the garden is 18 4x8 raised beds and we pretty much only occasionally buy carrots or onions if I've not grown enough, plus tomatoes and bulk fruit for canning. Everything else that's a vegetables and much of what is a fruit comes from our garden and we are big fruit and veg eaters. So I think 8,000-12,000 is a great amount of space unless you want actual self sufficiency in grains and meat too. Your time at that size will probably limit you more than sq. ft.

gooeydruid

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Re: Backyard gardeners, how big is your yard?
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2012, 04:28:29 PM »
Sunlight, soil and slope is more important than size, particularly if you stay away from field crops, corn, and orcharding. We're on a generous 1/3rd of an acre, say 15,000 sq ft, with a big-ass house, a lawn (more than I'd like, actually), greenhouse, chicken coop, lots of storage space, a shed, a dedicated "patio" type space....If anything it's too big. The heart of the garden is 18 4x8 raised beds and we pretty much only occasionally buy carrots or onions if I've not grown enough, plus tomatoes and bulk fruit for canning. Everything else that's a vegetables and much of what is a fruit comes from our garden and we are big fruit and veg eaters. So I think 8,000-12,000 is a great amount of space unless you want actual self sufficiency in grains and meat too. Your time at that size will probably limit you more than sq. ft.

You all give me hope!
I'm planning on either doing one of those do it yourself 30-35 foot deep sand point wells or a rainwater system. I'm moving to Tulsa, OK so sunlight is most definitely not a problem, nor are sloped yards. Its all flat. My mom has a 1 acre lot there and has had a very bountiful garden, she makes enough veggies to feed her and my dad, fill the freezer, and their neighbors.

I'm also looking at building a rabbit hutch and an observatory, I'm thinking about 10,000 sf should accommodate all of that with some careful planning.

strider3700

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Re: Backyard gardeners, how big is your yard?
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2012, 09:28:05 PM »
my yard is just over 10,000 sqft.  In the back yard I've got 2 gardens totalling 1000sqft roughly.  That is the area that gets sun at noon on the shortest day of the year.  I actually went outside on dec 21st at noon and looked and put a stake in the ground right where the roof shadow edge was.    In the front yard I've got a roughly 4' wide bed going down one side and turning a corner for a bit.  the other side garden is 18" wide but will be 4' soon.  Along the front right now there is just 6 gooseberry plants, eventually I'll tie the sides and the front together with that 4' bed.   Against the house is a bed 2 -3' deep.   I've also got/had 14 fruit trees.  I lost 4 of them with the drought last year.     This leaves the majority of the front lawn wide open.  I can easily fit another 1000 sqft there,  maybe 2000, I've never taken full measurements.   I can't grow enough to feed my family of 4 100% of their calories but I can easily grow enough fresh produce to keep us well stockpiled.   I also plan on adding 4-6 chickens next spring  and I've previously kept 2 hives of bees.

 You can deal with a slope, and bad soil, but it's easier and cheaper if they're not issues.  There is absolutely nothing you can do to compensate for crappy solar exposure.  My house faces directly south and slopes uphill just slightly towards the north.   There is absolutely nothing around that directly affects my sun.  Neighbours tree's aren't issues within an hour of the sun coming up in the summer.     

The other advantage besides gardening is passive solar heating.   Today it was 6 degrees and sunny outside.  I opened the curtains in the front when I got up  and the house went from 18 degrees to 21 degrees before the sun went down.  If I had better insulation I wouldn't need any heating in the evenings after a sunny day.   Whoever built this place in the 60's either did the math for the overhangs or lucked out because they shade properly in the summer and let the sun through the windows in the winter.   I love it.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 09:30:04 PM by strider3700 »

jwystup

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Re: Backyard gardeners, how big is your yard?
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2012, 10:40:06 PM »
We have about .12 acres, which, according to google, is about 5000 sq ft and we have plenty of space for a garden. The house 2 doors down has a huge garden that takes up most of their yard. We choose to use a raised bed that was there when we moved in plus one that I added on using some landscaping bricks from other areas of the yard. I'm still new to this whole actually-getting-veggies-out-of-your-garden thing, but this year was pretty successful. I bought a kit that came with a bunch of seeds and seed starters, etc, so I didn't choose what I was growing. Next year, I hope to do more of what we'd normally eat. We got a LOT of tomatoes this year and a lot of cucumbers. I'm hoping to do more onions, garlic, etc. I also want to add in more things that grow normally around here (corn, maybe an apple tree, strawberries). Water usage has been negligible.

Definitely check out smartgardener.com, you can plan out a garden based on what you want to grow/layout/etc.

Oh and this all started because the house we moved into had one grape vine. I made grape jelly last year and I was hooked! I want to grow lots of things and make things out of the things that I grow! I want an apple tree :\

twinge

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Re: Backyard gardeners, how big is your yard?
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2012, 12:22:51 PM »
We've got 10,000 sq ft, but mainly shaded by mature trees.  We grow a huge amount of vegetables in our front yard--enough for about 2/3 of the family's year's supply (and we're vegetarians) with minimal effort. The one thing to look at is local ordinances if you want to do things like keep bees, chickens etc.  In our area 10000 is the minimum to keep bees and not large enough for any chickens or farm animals.

strider3700

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Re: Backyard gardeners, how big is your yard?
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2012, 12:58:19 PM »
The one thing to look at is local ordinances if you want to do things like keep bees, chickens etc.  In our area 10000 is the minimum to keep bees and not large enough for any chickens or farm animals.

True,  bee's have always been legal here (3 hives or less)  Chickens just recently became legal here (6 hens or ducks no roosters,  4 if less then 4000 sqft lot)  lots of weird things aren't allowed in bylaws and lots of weird things are allowed. 

k9

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Re: Backyard gardeners, how big is your yard?
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2012, 08:20:20 AM »
My whole garden is about 1000 sqft. On that, I'm cultivating about 100 sqft in a square-foot gardening style and I have a few perennial vegetables and fruits shrubs. It's easier to deal with a small surface rather than a big one, so 1 acre won't provide with 10 times more than 0.1 acre, but maybe only 5-6 times more. If you focus on very proficient vegetables, your crops on small surfaces can be really amazing.

Seawolf

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Re: Backyard gardeners, how big is your yard?
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2012, 10:04:00 AM »
Look up permaculture; it has sustainable, DIY, and high productivity methods to anything from urban gardening to a full scale farm (the latter is my retirement strategy).  To supply 100% of a vegetarian diet per person per year you need roughly 1/2-3/4 an acre, depending on how intensively you want to manage it.  Look into water harvesting to avoid your water bill going through the roof (really easy to do for cheap, depending on your location). 

Something I'm looking into right now is buying my entire beef supply for a year.  We got a 21 ft^3 freezer with the house and getting it direct from the farm ends up being ~$7.77/lb for all cuts of grass fed beef (even grass-fed ground meat is like 9 bucks a lb at the stores around here).  I haven't added in the electric bill for the freezer yet, but I doubt it'll be more than a buck or two per pound.

Using both of these strategies, I plan on buying almost zero food from a grocery store a year from now.

Gerard

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Re: Backyard gardeners, how big is your yard?
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2012, 01:16:27 PM »
Does anyone have any experience with espaliered fruit trees? It would be a shame to give up on tree fruit because of space issues.

gooeydruid

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Re: Backyard gardeners, how big is your yard?
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2012, 02:09:18 PM »
My whole garden is about 1000 sqft. On that, I'm cultivating about 100 sqft in a square-foot gardening style and I have a few perennial vegetables and fruits shrubs. It's easier to deal with a small surface rather than a big one, so 1 acre won't provide with 10 times more than 0.1 acre, but maybe only 5-6 times more. If you focus on very proficient vegetables, your crops on small surfaces can be really amazing.

Do you have any pictures of your successful small garden?

k9

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Re: Backyard gardeners, how big is your yard?
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2012, 02:23:15 PM »
No, sorry, didn't make any picture of it :/

Seawolf

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Re: Backyard gardeners, how big is your yard?
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2012, 10:59:38 AM »
Does anyone have any experience with espaliered fruit trees? It would be a shame to give up on tree fruit because of space issues.

Espaliered trees can fruit very well, but take a lot of maintenance.  If you have the time, they can be a wonderful addition to a garden, if you don't take care of them, they will choke themselves and die after a few years.  I would look up "fedges" (food hedges) if youre interested in something for the perimeter of a lot.

Bakari

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Re: Backyard gardeners, how big is your yard?
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2012, 01:57:32 PM »
6ft x 3ft
(Plus a few 1/2 barrels)

Into which we cram grapes, strawberries, onions, potatoes, chard, lettuce, raspberries, peas, and orange, apple and nectarine trees.  In the past there has also been tomatoes, blueberries, and a few other things, but some are seasonal, some died, we mostly plant whatever seeds we can get for free.

Most of the year a single rain water barrel is enough to avoid any municipal water, but over the summer we have to supplement most years.

Not enough space to put a real dent in the grocery bill, but its fun to eat stuff we grew

bogart

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Re: Backyard gardeners, how big is your yard?
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2012, 08:18:38 PM »
My wife and I are looking at buying our first house in the next 12 months.

No idea if this is an issue where you are shopping but be aware that HOAs may restrict where you place your garden on your lot, or have other rules about what you can do -- so it's not just the lot (and the shade, and so on), but the rules, if any (my advice would be to avoid HOAs if possible, but certainly to know what the rules of whatever one you buy into are, if you can't).

amyable

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Re: Backyard gardeners, how big is your yard?
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2012, 11:12:00 AM »
Does anyone have any experience with espaliered fruit trees? It would be a shame to give up on tree fruit because of space issues.

Espaliered trees can fruit very well, but take a lot of maintenance.  If you have the time, they can be a wonderful addition to a garden, if you don't take care of them, they will choke themselves and die after a few years.  I would look up "fedges" (food hedges) if youre interested in something for the perimeter of a lot.

This book has some really great inspiration for small scale backyard fruit production:  http://www.amazon.com/Landscaping-Fruit-Strawberry-blueberry-Homeowners/dp/1603420916.  The guy who wrote is also has a blog with some good suggestions: http://leereich.blogspot.com.

I have a fig tree, two mayhaw trees, a persimmon tree, and two pear trees.  Right now the majority are too immature to really produce, but I'm looking forward to the future. 


Erica/NWEdible

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Re: Backyard gardeners, how big is your yard?
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2012, 02:23:52 PM »
Does anyone have any experience with espaliered fruit trees? It would be a shame to give up on tree fruit because of space issues.

Espaliered trees can fruit very well, but take a lot of maintenance.  If you have the time, they can be a wonderful addition to a garden, if you don't take care of them, they will choke themselves and die after a few years.  I would look up "fedges" (food hedges) if youre interested in something for the perimeter of a lot.

If you buy straight-across trees pre-trained you can get 3-in-1 combo varieties and all the hard work / time is already done. In my area they run about $20 higher than combo semi-dwarfs. I actually find my espaliers to be my easiest fruit trees to maintain. All the pruning is shoulder height or below and it is obvious what form to maintain. As long as you are willing to actually prune its very easy and fast.

This simplicity applies to spur-fruiting types, like apples and pears, though, not stone fruit that grows on one-year-old wood...the asian plum I'm training looks like a squid eating spaghetti right now. Much more work on that, might have to train it informally.

Erica/NWEdible

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Re: Backyard gardeners, how big is your yard?
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2012, 02:33:52 PM »
Something I'm looking into right now is buying my entire beef supply for a year.  We got a 21 ft^3 freezer with the house and getting it direct from the farm ends up being ~$7.77/lb for all cuts of grass fed beef (even grass-fed ground meat is like 9 bucks a lb at the stores around here).  I haven't added in the electric bill for the freezer yet, but I doubt it'll be more than a buck or two per pound.

Right on. Love your goal. We buy dairy and incidentals at the market and that's about it. Not to discourage you, because I fully believe in supporting local grass fed ranchers, but my gut feeling is that $7.77 is on the high side. Is that hanging weight or all inclusive with cut and wrap? One of the more expensive (but very reputable) farms up here serving the Seattle farmers market circuit sells his beef between $6.45 and $5.95 depending on qty. purchased (1/4 to whole), I think that's hanging weight. And there's always some dude on Craigslist who beats that by a buck or two. Again, not to discourage, but unless you are committed to that particular rancher, you might be able to save quite a bit on an equivalent product, since a whole beeve can run over 500 pounds hanging.

gooeydruid

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Re: Backyard gardeners, how big is your yard?
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2012, 05:13:31 AM »
Does anyone have any experience with espaliered fruit trees? It would be a shame to give up on tree fruit because of space issues.

Espaliered trees can fruit very well, but take a lot of maintenance.  If you have the time, they can be a wonderful addition to a garden, if you don't take care of them, they will choke themselves and die after a few years.  I would look up "fedges" (food hedges) if youre interested in something for the perimeter of a lot.

This book has some really great inspiration for small scale backyard fruit production:  http://www.amazon.com/Landscaping-Fruit-Strawberry-blueberry-Homeowners/dp/1603420916.  The guy who wrote is also has a blog with some good suggestions: http://leereich.blogspot.com.

I have a fig tree, two mayhaw trees, a persimmon tree, and two pear trees.  Right now the majority are too immature to really produce, but I'm looking forward to the future.

That looks like a pretty decent book, thanks for sharing.

 

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