Order of repairs: termite fumigation or mold remediation?

[jeromedawg]

Hey all,

For anyone who has dealt with both termites and mold concurrently, is there a 'preferred' or suggested order of remediation/repair?

Would it make sense to have the mold remediation done first as far as the wall being opened up etc, and then have the fumigation done with the wall open? Or better just to do the fumigation first and then have the wall opened up and remediation done?

[ChpBstrd]

I would open up the wall first.

[TrMama]

I can't imagine it would make any difference. I'd do the repairs in whatever order you can get the contractors to show up for. Although I'd probably just open the wall myself.

[Kl285528]

I likewise would open up the wall first, and see what you haven't seen.

[jeromedawg]

I can't imagine it would make any difference. I'd do the repairs in whatever order you can get the contractors to show up for. Although I'd probably just open the wall myself.

It has crossed my mind to DIY the mold stuff but as far as actually cleaning the stuff properly (and without spreading it around the house), I'd be iffy about that. Also, the quote we got for the remediation involved them removing the window casings and plantation shutters too. Trying to DIY anything beyond the wall and baseboard makes me more uncomfortable but perhaps it's not as big of a deal as it appears.

[TrMama]

I can't imagine it would make any difference. I'd do the repairs in whatever order you can get the contractors to show up for. Although I'd probably just open the wall myself.

It has crossed my mind to DIY the mold stuff but as far as actually cleaning the stuff properly (and without spreading it around the house), I'd be iffy about that. Also, the quote we got for the remediation involved them removing the window casings and plantation shutters too. Trying to DIY anything beyond the wall and baseboard makes me more uncomfortable but perhaps it's not as big of a deal as it appears.

To clarify, I wouldn't DIY the mold repair myself. Especially since it's up against a window. I'd just open the wall myself so I could see exactly what's going on in there and so whatever company you hire to fix it can give you a more accurate quote. Right now the extent of the damage is a mystery because no one can see it and you're not allowed to damage a house you don't own yet. Now that you own the house, you can open the wall and see what's going on.

You can also take the baseboard off and start trying to find a new matching piece. Hopefully there's a make and model printed on the backside.

Plus I love demo work. It's so much fun.

[jeromedawg]

I can't imagine it would make any difference. I'd do the repairs in whatever order you can get the contractors to show up for. Although I'd probably just open the wall myself.

It has crossed my mind to DIY the mold stuff but as far as actually cleaning the stuff properly (and without spreading it around the house), I'd be iffy about that. Also, the quote we got for the remediation involved them removing the window casings and plantation shutters too. Trying to DIY anything beyond the wall and baseboard makes me more uncomfortable but perhaps it's not as big of a deal as it appears.

To clarify, I wouldn't DIY the mold repair myself. Especially since it's up against a window. I'd just open the wall myself so I could see exactly what's going on in there and so whatever company you hire to fix it can give you a more accurate quote. Right now the extent of the damage is a mystery because no one can see it and you're not allowed to damage a house you don't own yet. Now that you own the house, you can open the wall and see what's going on.

You can also take the baseboard off and start trying to find a new matching piece. Hopefully there's a make and model printed on the backside.

Plus I love demo work. It's so much fun.

Ahh thanks for clarifying - that makes a lot of sense. Especially with opening the wall to allow for the remediation company to get a better idea of things. We're not going to be able to do anything though until the beginning of next month (Oct) though. Right now I'm deliberating on if we should just go ahead and knock the fumigation out as soon as we can after the sellers move out. Initially I was thinking about getting the remediation work done but maybe it does make more sense just to open it up myself and then get more quotes after. Just trying to minimize the amount of time that we're having to rent the apartment and carry the mortgage (without living at the new place)

[sonofsven]

Has there been any discussion on the reasons for mold and termites to be present? Ideas to prevent their return?

Whatever you do, don't move in before the work is done.

[jeromedawg]

Has there been any discussion on the reasons for mold and termites to be present? Ideas to prevent their return?

Whatever you do, don't move in before the work is done.

The mold was caused by irrigation the sellers were running consistently for who knows how long. Soil/mulch against the outside wall too close to the weep screed and moisture wicked right inside of the wall causing damp conditions. We've had the sellers disable that part of the irrigation and the plan is to remove that mulch, soil and foliage and fill with pea gravel or rocks instead soon after we move in. The outside walls of the home are primarily stucco so there were swarmers of termites in the attic (via vents) and some droppings found around the garage walls. The sellers probably left their garage door open often and the termites also found their way in from the vents. Not sure if screens can be added to keep them out up there.

We were actually considering moving in with the living room wall still open just to expedite the move-in. We had water damage at our old condo and had to live there while walls were opened (it wasn't ideal of course) so have gone through it. I figure if we're in a pinch, we can do the remediation, fumigation, change the carpet, get a deep cleaning, move in and then have that area of the wall repaired after but while living there. This area is downstairs and not near any of the bedrooms so we wouldn't be immediately impacted (in terms of having to sleep in a room with walls cut open, etc)

[BudgetSlasher]

In the past, I have had to deal with both issues, though not at the same time. Here is my two cents.

address the problem that is expanding first, meaning kill the termites first, especially since you believe the source of the moisture driving the mold has been addressed via the sprinklers/mulch removal. As long as the termites are alive the damage they are causing will continue to expand and a good bit of that termite damaged wood may have to be replaced. Honestly even if the mold was still expanding I probably would say kill the termites first (if you couldn't work on arresting the spread of both at the same time).

Once it is down to removing drywall, remediating mold in wall cavities, and replacing termite damaged trim/framing/sheathing/siding. After the threat of additional damage is passed I don't know that it matters much what is reparied first. If I were diy'ing or living in the house I would probably say mold first to improve air quality/health. If I was contracting it out I either wouldn't care or I would defer to my contractor(s) preference as to which order was easiest or made the most sense.

If it were my house I would not delay fumigation to open the walls first; to me stopping the spread of damage would be more important than knowing the existing amount of damage.

Finally be sure to take steps, usually by hiring a professional to treat, to prevent termite reinfestation.

Curiosity makes me ask, do you have an idea how far the termites have spread? When you say fumigation I picture the style that involves tenting a house. Which seems extreme, the last time I dealt with termites (twice in the same new construction house under a termite bond) we caught the damage early when the termites ate the trim around our windows leaving only the paint in places. Treating that level of infestation only required opening the wall beyond the damage and spraying as well as retreating the soil under and around the house. Even catching it early we had to entire sections of wall, drywall to siding, that were about 10 and 15 feet wide each and floor to ceiling and rebuild. Luckily the costs were covered under the termite bond.

[PMG]

I would not remove the drywall or tear into the wall. Once you disturb the mold it will be in the air and throughout the room, tracked through the house.  You may be able to learn enough online to suit up and DIY it. But don’t disturb until you’re ready to deal with it completely. Opening mold is like that phrase “opening a can of worms.”  Have containment ready before you mess with the problem area.

[jeromedawg]

In the past, I have had to deal with both issues, though not at the same time. Here is my two cents.

address the problem that is expanding first, meaning kill the termites first, especially since you believe the source of the moisture driving the mold has been addressed via the sprinklers/mulch removal. As long as the termites are alive the damage they are causing will continue to expand and a good bit of that termite damaged wood may have to be replaced. Honestly even if the mold was still expanding I probably would say kill the termites first (if you couldn't work on arresting the spread of both at the same time).

Once it is down to removing drywall, remediating mold in wall cavities, and replacing termite damaged trim/framing/sheathing/siding. After the threat of additional damage is passed I don't know that it matters much what is reparied first. If I were diy'ing or living in the house I would probably say mold first to improve air quality/health. If I was contracting it out I either wouldn't care or I would defer to my contractor(s) preference as to which order was easiest or made the most sense.

If it were my house I would not delay fumigation to open the walls first; to me stopping the spread of damage would be more important than knowing the existing amount of damage.

Finally be sure to take steps, usually by hiring a professional to treat, to prevent termite reinfestation.

Curiosity makes me ask, do you have an idea how far the termites have spread? When you say fumigation I picture the style that involves tenting a house. Which seems extreme, the last time I dealt with termites (twice in the same new construction house under a termite bond) we caught the damage early when the termites ate the trim around our windows leaving only the paint in places. Treating that level of infestation only required opening the wall beyond the damage and spraying as well as retreating the soil under and around the house. Even catching it early we had to entire sections of wall, drywall to siding, that were about 10 and 15 feet wide each and floor to ceiling and rebuild. Luckily the costs were covered under the termite bond.

Thanks for the suggestions!

In terms of the extent of the damage from termites, the only things pointed out were A) swarmers in the attic and B) droppings at the base of where the drywall meets the foundation/slab in the garage. Per the termite company, the swarmers and droppings both looked relatively 'fresh' - they were suggested fumigation because you "can't kill what you can't see" with spot treatments. To be doubly-sure, fumigation would be a sure-fire way of killing termites behind the walls. I don't know how else you can find out how extensive the termite spread is when it's unseen behind the drywall. In the attic it might be more doable but I'm not sure how you would do this...

[BudgetSlasher]

In the past, I have had to deal with both issues, though not at the same time. Here is my two cents.

address the problem that is expanding first, meaning kill the termites first, especially since you believe the source of the moisture driving the mold has been addressed via the sprinklers/mulch removal. As long as the termites are alive the damage they are causing will continue to expand and a good bit of that termite damaged wood may have to be replaced. Honestly even if the mold was still expanding I probably would say kill the termites first (if you couldn't work on arresting the spread of both at the same time).

Once it is down to removing drywall, remediating mold in wall cavities, and replacing termite damaged trim/framing/sheathing/siding. After the threat of additional damage is passed I don't know that it matters much what is reparied first. If I were diy'ing or living in the house I would probably say mold first to improve air quality/health. If I was contracting it out I either wouldn't care or I would defer to my contractor(s) preference as to which order was easiest or made the most sense.

If it were my house I would not delay fumigation to open the walls first; to me stopping the spread of damage would be more important than knowing the existing amount of damage.

Finally be sure to take steps, usually by hiring a professional to treat, to prevent termite reinfestation.

Curiosity makes me ask, do you have an idea how far the termites have spread? When you say fumigation I picture the style that involves tenting a house. Which seems extreme, the last time I dealt with termites (twice in the same new construction house under a termite bond) we caught the damage early when the termites ate the trim around our windows leaving only the paint in places. Treating that level of infestation only required opening the wall beyond the damage and spraying as well as retreating the soil under and around the house. Even catching it early we had to entire sections of wall, drywall to siding, that were about 10 and 15 feet wide each and floor to ceiling and rebuild. Luckily the costs were covered under the termite bond.

Thanks for the suggestions!

In terms of the extent of the damage from termites, the only things pointed out were A) swarmers in the attic and B) droppings at the base of where the drywall meets the foundation/slab in the garage. Per the termite company, the swarmers and droppings both looked relatively 'fresh' - they were suggested fumigation because you "can't kill what you can't see" with spot treatments. To be doubly-sure, fumigation would be a sure-fire way of killing termites behind the walls. I don't know how else you can find out how extensive the termite spread is when it's unseen behind the drywall. In the attic it might be more doable but I'm not sure how you would do this...

I'm not surprised the only evidence you have is some droppings around the foundation and some in the attic. Mostly termite avoid daylight, they tend to enter through wood in contact with dirt/mulch, building mud tubes, or crawling up behind stucco that has separated from the house. That kind of behavior makes it hard to detect and the infestation and damage can go on for a long time before it is noticed. Google says (mostly from various pest control sites) that it can sometimes take 3-8 year for termite damage to be detected and a single large colony can eat a pound of wood a day. For reference a kiln dried 2x4x8 stud is about 9 pounds and my experience with termites is they tend to eat the softer lighter colored portion of the wood and leave the harder darker portion behind.

Fumigation should get them all ... plus any other things living in the walls. Ultimately I would open up the walls to determine what framing needs replacing. If I could determine where they entered the house, which you might know from the droppings, I would start there and continue opening until I reached good wood.

[jeromedawg]

In the past, I have had to deal with both issues, though not at the same time. Here is my two cents.

address the problem that is expanding first, meaning kill the termites first, especially since you believe the source of the moisture driving the mold has been addressed via the sprinklers/mulch removal. As long as the termites are alive the damage they are causing will continue to expand and a good bit of that termite damaged wood may have to be replaced. Honestly even if the mold was still expanding I probably would say kill the termites first (if you couldn't work on arresting the spread of both at the same time).

Once it is down to removing drywall, remediating mold in wall cavities, and replacing termite damaged trim/framing/sheathing/siding. After the threat of additional damage is passed I don't know that it matters much what is reparied first. If I were diy'ing or living in the house I would probably say mold first to improve air quality/health. If I was contracting it out I either wouldn't care or I would defer to my contractor(s) preference as to which order was easiest or made the most sense.

If it were my house I would not delay fumigation to open the walls first; to me stopping the spread of damage would be more important than knowing the existing amount of damage.

Finally be sure to take steps, usually by hiring a professional to treat, to prevent termite reinfestation.

Curiosity makes me ask, do you have an idea how far the termites have spread? When you say fumigation I picture the style that involves tenting a house. Which seems extreme, the last time I dealt with termites (twice in the same new construction house under a termite bond) we caught the damage early when the termites ate the trim around our windows leaving only the paint in places. Treating that level of infestation only required opening the wall beyond the damage and spraying as well as retreating the soil under and around the house. Even catching it early we had to entire sections of wall, drywall to siding, that were about 10 and 15 feet wide each and floor to ceiling and rebuild. Luckily the costs were covered under the termite bond.

Thanks for the suggestions!

In terms of the extent of the damage from termites, the only things pointed out were A) swarmers in the attic and B) droppings at the base of where the drywall meets the foundation/slab in the garage. Per the termite company, the swarmers and droppings both looked relatively 'fresh' - they were suggested fumigation because you "can't kill what you can't see" with spot treatments. To be doubly-sure, fumigation would be a sure-fire way of killing termites behind the walls. I don't know how else you can find out how extensive the termite spread is when it's unseen behind the drywall. In the attic it might be more doable but I'm not sure how you would do this...

I'm not surprised the only evidence you have is some droppings around the foundation and some in the attic. Mostly termite avoid daylight, they tend to enter through wood in contact with dirt/mulch, building mud tubes, or crawling up behind stucco that has separated from the house. That kind of behavior makes it hard to detect and the infestation and damage can go on for a long time before it is noticed. Google says (mostly from various pest control sites) that it can sometimes take 3-8 year for termite damage to be detected and a single large colony can eat a pound of wood a day. For reference a kiln dried 2x4x8 stud is about 9 pounds and my experience with termites is they tend to eat the softer lighter colored portion of the wood and leave the harder darker portion behind.

Fumigation should get them all ... plus any other things living in the walls. Ultimately I would open up the walls to determine what framing needs replacing. If I could determine where they entered the house, which you might know from the droppings, I would start there and continue opening until I reached good wood.

It sounds like you might be referring to subterranean termites?

I'm in SoCal so it's primarily drywood termites, which will fly around until they find what they want then shed their wings before getting to work. I'm guessing there were probably swarmers in the garage a while ago if the inspector noticed droppings in that particular area. He said they looked pretty fresh so I think this was recent - although, not sure how long "recent" is in terms of drywood termites. With the attic space, they likely flew in via the vents that are up there (there are no screens but even if there were I'm not sure that would stop them) and recently found wood to go to town on so shed their wings.

Subterranean termites sound like they're much more difficult to detect

[BudgetSlasher]

In the past, I have had to deal with both issues, though not at the same time. Here is my two cents.

address the problem that is expanding first, meaning kill the termites first, especially since you believe the source of the moisture driving the mold has been addressed via the sprinklers/mulch removal. As long as the termites are alive the damage they are causing will continue to expand and a good bit of that termite damaged wood may have to be replaced. Honestly even if the mold was still expanding I probably would say kill the termites first (if you couldn't work on arresting the spread of both at the same time).

Once it is down to removing drywall, remediating mold in wall cavities, and replacing termite damaged trim/framing/sheathing/siding. After the threat of additional damage is passed I don't know that it matters much what is reparied first. If I were diy'ing or living in the house I would probably say mold first to improve air quality/health. If I was contracting it out I either wouldn't care or I would defer to my contractor(s) preference as to which order was easiest or made the most sense.

If it were my house I would not delay fumigation to open the walls first; to me stopping the spread of damage would be more important than knowing the existing amount of damage.

Finally be sure to take steps, usually by hiring a professional to treat, to prevent termite reinfestation.

Curiosity makes me ask, do you have an idea how far the termites have spread? When you say fumigation I picture the style that involves tenting a house. Which seems extreme, the last time I dealt with termites (twice in the same new construction house under a termite bond) we caught the damage early when the termites ate the trim around our windows leaving only the paint in places. Treating that level of infestation only required opening the wall beyond the damage and spraying as well as retreating the soil under and around the house. Even catching it early we had to entire sections of wall, drywall to siding, that were about 10 and 15 feet wide each and floor to ceiling and rebuild. Luckily the costs were covered under the termite bond.

Thanks for the suggestions!

In terms of the extent of the damage from termites, the only things pointed out were A) swarmers in the attic and B) droppings at the base of where the drywall meets the foundation/slab in the garage. Per the termite company, the swarmers and droppings both looked relatively 'fresh' - they were suggested fumigation because you "can't kill what you can't see" with spot treatments. To be doubly-sure, fumigation would be a sure-fire way of killing termites behind the walls. I don't know how else you can find out how extensive the termite spread is when it's unseen behind the drywall. In the attic it might be more doable but I'm not sure how you would do this...

I'm not surprised the only evidence you have is some droppings around the foundation and some in the attic. Mostly termite avoid daylight, they tend to enter through wood in contact with dirt/mulch, building mud tubes, or crawling up behind stucco that has separated from the house. That kind of behavior makes it hard to detect and the infestation and damage can go on for a long time before it is noticed. Google says (mostly from various pest control sites) that it can sometimes take 3-8 year for termite damage to be detected and a single large colony can eat a pound of wood a day. For reference a kiln dried 2x4x8 stud is about 9 pounds and my experience with termites is they tend to eat the softer lighter colored portion of the wood and leave the harder darker portion behind.

Fumigation should get them all ... plus any other things living in the walls. Ultimately I would open up the walls to determine what framing needs replacing. If I could determine where they entered the house, which you might know from the droppings, I would start there and continue opening until I reached good wood.

It sounds like you might be referring to subterranean termites?

I'm in SoCal so it's primarily drywood termites, which will fly around until they find what they want then shed their wings before getting to work. I'm guessing there were probably swarmers in the garage a while ago if the inspector noticed droppings in that particular area. He said they looked pretty fresh so I think this was recent - although, not sure how long "recent" is in terms of drywood termites. With the attic space, they likely flew in via the vents that are up there (there are no screens but even if there were I'm not sure that would stop them) and recently found wood to go to town on so shed their wings.

Subterranean termites sound like they're much more difficult to detect

Yes my experiences with termites is from with I lived in the southeast and that is the definitely the subterranean type.

Given that my experience is based off of a different kind of termite, some of my concern about how destructive they might be may be inaccurate for you situation. However I would still default to addressing whichever condition, mold or termites, is accruing additional damage first. And that sounds like it is still the termites.

[jeromedawg]

In the past, I have had to deal with both issues, though not at the same time. Here is my two cents.

address the problem that is expanding first, meaning kill the termites first, especially since you believe the source of the moisture driving the mold has been addressed via the sprinklers/mulch removal. As long as the termites are alive the damage they are causing will continue to expand and a good bit of that termite damaged wood may have to be replaced. Honestly even if the mold was still expanding I probably would say kill the termites first (if you couldn't work on arresting the spread of both at the same time).

Once it is down to removing drywall, remediating mold in wall cavities, and replacing termite damaged trim/framing/sheathing/siding. After the threat of additional damage is passed I don't know that it matters much what is reparied first. If I were diy'ing or living in the house I would probably say mold first to improve air quality/health. If I was contracting it out I either wouldn't care or I would defer to my contractor(s) preference as to which order was easiest or made the most sense.

If it were my house I would not delay fumigation to open the walls first; to me stopping the spread of damage would be more important than knowing the existing amount of damage.

Finally be sure to take steps, usually by hiring a professional to treat, to prevent termite reinfestation.

Curiosity makes me ask, do you have an idea how far the termites have spread? When you say fumigation I picture the style that involves tenting a house. Which seems extreme, the last time I dealt with termites (twice in the same new construction house under a termite bond) we caught the damage early when the termites ate the trim around our windows leaving only the paint in places. Treating that level of infestation only required opening the wall beyond the damage and spraying as well as retreating the soil under and around the house. Even catching it early we had to entire sections of wall, drywall to siding, that were about 10 and 15 feet wide each and floor to ceiling and rebuild. Luckily the costs were covered under the termite bond.

Thanks for the suggestions!

In terms of the extent of the damage from termites, the only things pointed out were A) swarmers in the attic and B) droppings at the base of where the drywall meets the foundation/slab in the garage. Per the termite company, the swarmers and droppings both looked relatively 'fresh' - they were suggested fumigation because you "can't kill what you can't see" with spot treatments. To be doubly-sure, fumigation would be a sure-fire way of killing termites behind the walls. I don't know how else you can find out how extensive the termite spread is when it's unseen behind the drywall. In the attic it might be more doable but I'm not sure how you would do this...

I'm not surprised the only evidence you have is some droppings around the foundation and some in the attic. Mostly termite avoid daylight, they tend to enter through wood in contact with dirt/mulch, building mud tubes, or crawling up behind stucco that has separated from the house. That kind of behavior makes it hard to detect and the infestation and damage can go on for a long time before it is noticed. Google says (mostly from various pest control sites) that it can sometimes take 3-8 year for termite damage to be detected and a single large colony can eat a pound of wood a day. For reference a kiln dried 2x4x8 stud is about 9 pounds and my experience with termites is they tend to eat the softer lighter colored portion of the wood and leave the harder darker portion behind.

Fumigation should get them all ... plus any other things living in the walls. Ultimately I would open up the walls to determine what framing needs replacing. If I could determine where they entered the house, which you might know from the droppings, I would start there and continue opening until I reached good wood.

It sounds like you might be referring to subterranean termites?

I'm in SoCal so it's primarily drywood termites, which will fly around until they find what they want then shed their wings before getting to work. I'm guessing there were probably swarmers in the garage a while ago if the inspector noticed droppings in that particular area. He said they looked pretty fresh so I think this was recent - although, not sure how long "recent" is in terms of drywood termites. With the attic space, they likely flew in via the vents that are up there (there are no screens but even if there were I'm not sure that would stop them) and recently found wood to go to town on so shed their wings.

Subterranean termites sound like they're much more difficult to detect

Yes my experiences with termites is from with I lived in the southeast and that is the definitely the subterranean type.

Given that my experience is based off of a different kind of termite, some of my concern about how destructive they might be may be inaccurate for you situation. However I would still default to addressing whichever condition, mold or termites, is accruing additional damage first. And that sounds like it is still the termites.

Yea, I did some Googling after you posted and the subterranean ones are bad. I think they do exist around here just not as common. I think we will proceed with doing the fumigation first then. That makes more sense. I wonder if it would even be OK to defer the mold remediation until later. The risk there is if the company doesn't do a good job with cordoning off the area and the spores get all over the place. But I would assume any legitimate remediation company would be able to do the work without that being an issue. This would definitely save us time as far as not having to delay move-in any later. The area of concern, as mentioned before, is downstairs in the front of the house and isn't near any bedrooms.

[jeromedawg]

Also wondering if anyone has recommendations on what to clean or areas to focus on after a fumigation is done? Like wiping down *all* surfaces with a wet cloth, etc?

[lutorm]

Also wondering if anyone has recommendations on what to clean or areas to focus on after a fumigation is done? Like wiping down *all* surfaces with a wet cloth, etc?

We had our house done this year and the company gave us a very comprehensive list of prep work. The fumigant is a gas so after airing out there's nothing left. Most of the work was on the prep side in making sure all foods that weren't in unopened cans etc were bagged. But it sounds like you're doing this before you move in, in which case you should be all good once they give you the green light to go back in.

We've found quite a bit of termite damage as we're renovating, but our house is also 70 years old. I wouldn't be too paranoid about drywood termites, weeks or months won't make much of a difference. Just don't ignore the problem entirely. Depending on how common termites are in your area, re-treating every 5 years might be a good idea since it's practically impossible to not have them get into openings when they swarm.