Preventing separated tires?

[Urchina]

We have a 2006 Honda odyssey EX that is our road trip car.  I also use it to commute 10 miles round trip three days a week. In the last four years we've had three separated tires on it. Before this car I'd never had one ever.

We put quality tires on it and keep them properly inflated. We've had different brands on it. Our driving is all on-road and I'm not a particularly aggressive driver. I'm beginning to suspect that the separated tire issue may be a car issue and not a tire issue (that is, I suspect there's something on the car -suspension, drive train, whatever, that is causing this, since the statistical odds of three brand-new 70,000 mile tires from three different manufacturers failing in a 30,000 mile period seem low.)

Any ideas, fellow Mustachians?

[BlueMR2]

Wow, that's one I've never heard before.  If the shocks/struts are good and the alignment is within tolerances (with no excessive play on any components), I can't think of anything else vehicle specific that would cause unusual failures.

[BudgetSlasher]

Were all of these tires purchased/mounted/balanced/installed/aligned at the same location?

[Urchina]

Were all of these tires purchased/mounted/balanced/installed/aligned at the same location?

Nope. Three different locations in two states, all reputable brands and establishments. Otherwise I'd chalk it up to the tire shop.

[Urchina]

Wow, that's one I've never heard before.  If the shocks/struts are good and the alignment is within tolerances (with no excessive play on any components), I can't think of anything else vehicle specific that would cause unusual failures.

Alignment has been fine, although we don't have it done often (have has no issues). We get the van checked every year by our mechanic prior to our big road trip and have all necessary work done then,  and haven't had shocks/struts as a problem. 

It's possible that we're on the statistical long-tail and just happened to have rotten luck with tires, but thought I'd check here as well as with our mechanic.

[Greg]

Check the load rating of the tires and see if they meet or exceed the requirements. Some heavier vehicles require tires with extra strength sidewalls etc. 

For instance, my Vanagon requires Load Range C or D tires, some LT tires qualify.  Using standard passenger tires makes for an unsafe, and tippy ride.

The owner's manual and door jamb decal should have the tire spec you need.  It's not uncommon for tire shops to be (or pretend to be) ignorant of the specs.  For instance when I got my Vanagon years ago it had passenger car tires on it, a huge liability for the tire shop so I'm surprised they did it.

[Urchina]

Check the load rating of the tires and see if they meet or exceed the requirements. Some heavier vehicles require tires with extra strength sidewalls etc. 

Good thought. The tires we have always had on it are specific for this type of vehicle and match the manufacturer's specifications for tires.

Any other ideas?

[Greg]

Really the only things that could cause this you've covered; tire pressure, alignment, tire quality (always a possibility), load, road surface, driving style.  Could just be coincidence.

[Urchina]

Really the only things that could cause this you've covered; tire pressure, alignment, tire quality (always a possibility), load, road surface, driving style.  Could just be coincidence.

We may just have to chalk it up to a Series of Unfortunate Events. Back to the tire shop I go. Thanks for the ideas/advice, everyone!

[Matt in Akron]

In the last four years we've had three separated tires on it. Before this car I'd never had one ever....

...We put quality tires on it and keep them properly inflated.

1) When you say "separated" - what do you mean?  When I hear that, I envision a long ribbon of rubber that has the tread pattern molded into it physically separated from the tire.  While this isn't uncommon in large trucks (usually from an improperly constructed re-tread tire), it's very rare for passenger cars.

2) How recently would you estimate you'd checked the inflation pressure before any of the 3 failures you experienced?

3) What inflation pressure are you using?

[Urchina]

Hi, Matt. To answer your questions:
1. We've caught the tires before they shred or I have a blowout. Basically the interior structure of the tire splits and if you run your hand along the tire you will feel a bulge on the road-contact surface.

2. I check tire pressure every month or so.  These are often relatively new tires and don't leak much air. During long road trips I check tire pressure more often (sometimes daily before driving)

3. Tires are inflated to manufacturer's specifications. I don't have that off the top of my head right now; I usually go with what is what's on the tire and we keep that info in the glove compartment of the car.

[Matt in Akron]

3. Tires are inflated to manufacturer's specifications. I don't have that off the top of my head right now; I usually go with what is what's on the tire and we keep that info in the glove compartment of the car.

This could be the problem.  The failure you've described in #1 is indicative of impact damage, like from hitting a pothole or object.  Combine that with the fact that you are very likely over-inflating your tires which makes them more susceptible to this type of impact damage.

The proper inflation pressure is specified by the VEHICLE, regardless of the tires that are mounted on it (check for a sticker on the driver's door jamb or inside the trunk lid advising of proper COLD inflation pressure.  If that fails, check the vehicle owner's manual).  It is NOT what is printed as the "maximum inflation pressure" on the side of the tire - this is the MAX inflation pressure for the tire under max load conditions.  Yes this is confusing, but it is a requirement for tire makers to print this on their tires.  Hope this makes sense.

The correct inflation pressure is likely around 32-35psi.  If you're going by what is stamped onto the side of the tire, you could be running 45psi or more.  Take a tire inflated to 45psi and hit a moderate pot hole or object in the road and you'll get the separation you've described.

Hope this helps!

[paddedhat]

Pretty sure that Matt solved your problem. Sadly, there are even monkeys in tire shops that don't know this. I typically run LT (light truck designation) E rated (weight handling capacity rating) tires on even the lightest 1/2 trucks I have owned. They are rated for 80PSI  MAXIMUM pressure on the sidewall. On an empty 1/2 ton pickup, these tires will run and handle great at 45-50 LBS. I once left a shop with a new set pumped to 80 and the truck was simply uncontrollable. It . would slide around like it was on black ice, and dribble like a basketball when the rear hit a pothole. The sliding was from the fact that very little of the tread was actually making contact with the road, since they were so over-inflated. With a P rated car tire, max inflation is just an invitation for poor wear, handling and like Matt noted, real exposure to damage since it has no cushion.

[music lover]

What Matt said...

[Urchina]

3. Tires are inflated to manufacturer's specifications. I don't have that off the top of my head right now; I usually go with what is what's on the tire and we keep that info in the glove compartment of the car.

This could be the problem.  The failure you've described in #1 is indicative of impact damage, like from hitting a pothole or object.  Combine that with the fact that you are very likely over-inflating your tires which makes them more susceptible to this type of impact damage.

The proper inflation pressure is specified by the VEHICLE, regardless of the tires that are mounted on it (check for a sticker on the driver's door jamb or inside the trunk lid advising of proper COLD inflation pressure.  If that fails, check the vehicle owner's manual).  It is NOT what is printed as the "maximum inflation pressure" on the side of the tire - this is the MAX inflation pressure for the tire under max load conditions.  Yes this is confusing, but it is a requirement for tire makers to print this on their tires.  Hope this makes sense.

The correct inflation pressure is likely around 32-35psi.  If you're going by what is stamped onto the side of the tire, you could be running 45psi or more.  Take a tire inflated to 45psi and hit a moderate pot hole or object in the road and you'll get the separation you've described.

Hope this helps!

Excellent, and we will keep this in mind. Notes indicate 35 psi. I'll check our operators manual to confirm.  I've never inflated them above 40 psi,  I can tell you that for sure.  I can't even imagine what that would feel like.

We had two new tires put on today, and all tires balanced and aligned.  Now my van pulls to the right and there's a lot of back-and-forth in the steering wheel.  Guess I'm taking it back in so they can fix whatever that is - definitely is a result of the work done today.

Thank you all for your comments and advice. We'll keep a closer eye on inflation pressure and alignment and see if we can prevent this issue from happening again.

[Greg]

Back and forth in the steering wheel is a sign that the front tires aren't the same, perhaps one is out of round or damaged.  Or, you may need suspension work in addition to an alignment.