Author Topic: Flushing toilet causes kitchen sink gurgle  (Read 7983 times)

MeNeedsSomeHelp

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Flushing toilet causes kitchen sink gurgle
« on: April 14, 2018, 10:52:46 PM »
Flushing the toilet causes my sink to gurgle.
The toilet flushes fine.
The two have separate pipes running out of the house for the sink and the toilet.

I snaked the toilet 25'.
I have snaked the vent 25'.
I have poured chemicals down the vent.
I have called a plumber who didn't think it was a vent problem and removed a small handful of roots.
I have used root x foam.
I have pour more chemicals.
I have snaked the main system 25'.


The kitchen sink appears to be a double S trap.
It needs a Studor. 
However, I don't think that will fix the gurgle, as there is positive pressure coming up the sink when the toilet flushes.
I put a bowl over the kitchen sink and filled the sink with water.
Then I flushed, this caused the bowl to move and bubbles to come up.
As there is not negative pressure the Studor would not prevent this problem.

The second, third, etc flushes do not cause the gurgle.
It seems to "reset" by waiting 5-10 minutes.


Please help.

Sibley

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Re: Flushing toilet causes kitchen sink gurgle
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2018, 07:20:02 PM »
You say separate pipes - by that I assume you mean drain pipe. What about venting? If venting is wrong you'll gurgle. (At least that's what This Old House said, and I generally believe them.)

BudgetSlasher

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Re: Flushing toilet causes kitchen sink gurgle
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2018, 08:56:38 AM »
Is this a new problem or has it always acted this way? What kind of toilet (old or newer low water)? Are you on city sewer or septic, does your septic have a low vent at the leach field?

My experience with drain issues is that lots of information is needed to track the culprit. Sometimes to the point where a map is needed showing the positions of the fixtures and vent connections relative to each other, the diameters of the pipes and the routing of said pipes.

From your description, it sounds like the large volume of water from the toilet is filling an entire pipe (normal) which creates high pressure ahead of it and low pressure behind. The high pressure ahead, which sounds like your problem, should be able to escape via down stream vents  and the low pressure does not appear to be an issue for you (more of a gurgling than a burping).

I tend to agree that this is likely a venting problem.

If you have been in the house for a while and this problem is only recently developed I would say you have a clogged vent line somewhere. I know you said you snaked the vent 25 feet, but a vent stack (depending on the vent diameter) can have multiple branches leading to multiple fixtures. I've also seen so vent lines that have shapes that would never work for water and that could never be snaked from above. Regardless if it is a clogged vent it is much more likely to be clogged near or at where the vent connects to the fixture drain than near the roof vent.

If this has always been a problem, I hate to say it, but it may be a poorly configured venting system.

In my current house most fixtures have a short run to the main drain line where they interface with the vent system. (if the runs to the trunk were longer or if figures shared a spur I might encounter gurgling.) So far this sounds a lot like your configuration. If most of your venting is through the main drain trunk or some other form of "wet venting" I wouldn't be surprised to learn that your layout looks something like this

Code: [Select]
Vent          Toilet         Sink
l                l                l
l                l                l
l_________l_________l__________to sewer
     

and the high pressure wave in front of the toilet flush is forcing air up the sink. Unfortunately, and AAV/ Studor won't fix this.  A downstream vent may be needed.

I am a little stumped by the second and third flush not causing the same issue.

MeNeedsSomeHelp

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Re: Flushing toilet causes kitchen sink gurgle
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2018, 04:20:58 PM »
It is more like a burp than a gurgle.
We are on city sewers.

I had the clean out for the kitchen sink open in the basement when someone flushed.
There was a lot of water pressure that came out.
(Long shower.:-)
Given the diameter difference in the pipes I'm surprised I got more than a trickle.
Could this indicate an obstruction between T1 and L below?


################################
#      |      |                #
#      L      K         ########
#                       |    |
#-T1                    T2   T3
#
#
S

S: Sewer
#: Sewer pipe
L: Laundry
K: Kitchen sink
T: Toilets

Flushing T1 does not cause burp.
Laundry draining causes K to burp.  (The burping seems to happen multiple times during the wash.)
Flushing T2 causes K to burp.  (Only the first flush causes the burp till 5-10min wait time.)
Flushing T3 causes K to burp.  (Only the first flush causes the burp till 5-10min wait time.)

MeNeedsSomeHelp

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Re: Flushing toilet causes kitchen sink gurgle
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2018, 05:59:13 PM »
Based on this youtube, I don't see why I would see pressure at the kitchen sink unless there is a blockage.
Pressure in Parallel Circuits
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_0-H8nxQdo

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Flushing toilet causes kitchen sink gurgle
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2018, 08:26:39 AM »
This really makes it sound like the kitchen's vent is blocked, and there might also be a blockage in the sewer line somewhere downstream of the laundry.  So when the laundry drains, it pushes air back up the pipe toward the kitchen.  And when the toilets flush, they push air up the kitchen sink drain.

MeNeedsSomeHelp

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Re: Flushing toilet causes kitchen sink gurgle
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2018, 06:53:20 PM »
The second plumber solved the problem.
It was expensive! (It would have been much cheaper if I had called him first.)
They used a camera and hydrojetted the pipe.
There were several blockages.
The first hydrojet didn't get everything, but the second made it squeaky clean.
After he was done he answered several questions and sprayed disinfectant everywhere.