Floor Water Damage and Possible Asbestos Tile Removal

[PoutineLover]

When the previous tenants moved out, I noticed some water damage at the edges of the kitchen floor where the fridge and washer were. Started tearing up the edges of the floor to see the extent of the damage, and found about 4x5 feet of area where the wood is soft/rotten underneath the floor coverings. But - in tearing up the tiles and linoleum (5 layers worth!) I realized that it may contain asbestos (built in 1953). I will be getting a test kit to find out for sure. The total kitchen area is about 150 square feet.

If it is, I am wondering about the value of getting it professionally removed vs DIY. I will get quotes just to compare, but it seems fairly simple to get a respirator, goggles, hazmat suit, and shoe covers and spray down the tiles as I go. Proper disposal is annoying as they don't accept it at the usual hazardous waste drop off, but I can find the right place. The risk seems quite low for floor tiles, especially with the proper precautions.

After that, once I assess the full extent of the rotted wood, I can cut out the damaged sections and put down new wood and install new floors on top. Any suggestions on what to use? Vinyl vs ceramic tiles vs something else? The rest of the apartment is hardwood floors, and that seems to be what's under all the layers of vinyl/linoleum. Some of it could likely be restored, but that would require sanding and if the glue also contains asbestos, that seems more risky than just re-covering it. The damaged section would also not match, so I'm leaning towards covering.

I'd love to hear from anyone who has experience with any part of this to tell me if the plan is realistic or let me know if I'm missing anything important. What's a reasonable cost expectation for materials? Alternatively, what would a job like this cost if I hired pros? Thanks for any advice/recommendations!

[Dicey]

If the tiles are 9" x 9", you can assume they're asbestos.

[PoutineLover]

Yeah they are. Should I not bother with the testing then? If I assume it's asbestos, worst case I'm just overly cautious, but given that the floor looks mouldy anyway, it really can't hurt.

[lthenderson]

Asbestos in tiles is one of the safest forms to find it as it is held together with binders and not considered friable (likely to crumble and shed fibers into the air to be inhaled). When I remove suspect tiles like that, I just wear a good respirator, have good airflow venting outside and do a good job of cleaning all surfaces after I'm done before removing protective equipment. Where I wouldn't remove stuff is highly friable pipe insulation. There one really needs to create a negative pressure situation when removing it so that the fibers don't contaminate the rest of the house.

Asbestos, much like mold, is way over hyped. People think it is banned and it isn't. People think it hasn't been used since the 70's and that's not true. It can still be found in everyday products like caulking, joint compound, shingles and yes, even floor tiles.  Our country went through a period where the effects were known and yet hid for reasons of greed and many people in manufacturing environments paid the price in many high profile cases and that is where the bad rap came about. It is dangerous stuff that can cause cancer when improperly handled so nothing to sneeze at but it can be safely dealt with DIY especially in floor tile form.

Asbestos disposal probably depends on your state but in my state and others I am familiar, all that has to be done is to seal it in a plastic trash bag and taken to the landfill where I just pay the basic tonnage fee. It can't be disposed of in the curbside trash.

[SunnyDays]

Yeah, those are asbestos.   We had the same kind in my childhood home, built in the 60's.  It may not be glue, but mastic holding them down but that can also contain asbestos.  But removal is highly unlikely to cause it to fly around in the air to be inhaled, so likely not a big issue.

I would go with either a good quality laminate or LVP that matches the existing hardwood as closely as possible.  Tile looks nice, but there's all that grout that can become problematic over time, it's hard on the legs, cold, and anything dropped shatters into a million pieces.

[PoutineLover]

Okay, this is reassuring. I've been reading a bunch and it does seem fairly safe to remove the tiles. The adhesive on the back is kinda papery, so I also assume that also contains asbestos, but with the proper equipment it should be okay to remove it. I was concerned at first, scared I had given myself certain cancer by ripping up the floors and exposing myself, but it seems that the risks are overblown for such a minor exposure. Most cancer is in people with occupational exposure, especially prior to safety controls. The asbestos removal companies really make it sound like certain death if you ever touch the stuff, but given how widespread the use was it just doesn't make sense.

Looks like LVP or laminate would be a good choice, I prefer as thin as possible to not have a significant lip at the edge of the room. I'll also be sanding and refinishing the rest of the floors so I can probably get the shade to match really well if I pick out the new floors and get a matching stain. The wood is pretty light and I'd like to keep it that way as much as possible.

[lthenderson]

For a kitchen, I'm not a big fan of laminate, especially cheap laminate. Exposure to water can cause the edges to swell and pucker up. I have an entire family room of cheap laminate that is puckered up around all the joint lines that a previous person left me. LVP is better. It is water proof but I have seen many instances where a heavy object left in place for a long period of time like a refrigerator, stove or table (thinking kitchen setting) will permanently dent the plank. Not so much a concern for you but might cause a loss of value if you go to sell it. Usually isn't so concerning with the stove and refrigerator since new ones will cover the dents up but tables can cause problems. These can be solved by making sure there is a wide pad under the leg to distribute the weight better like coaster size instead of dime size like some rubber pads I have seen on the bottom side of table legs. Tile for me is probably the most indestructible but it isn't easy to make low profile especially when using an isolation joint with cement board plus the grout and tile. They can also more easily cracked in a kitchen environment where hard objects can be dropped from height onto them.

I personally have solid hardwood floors in our kitchen and like them but they can be pricey to install. Lots of water can harm them but generally they hold up well to spills that are cleaned up in a timely manner. The biggest reason I like them is that in fifteen years when they are scratched up and the stain is no longer in style, I can sand them and restain them in a different hue to match the trend and they look like brand new again.

[Dicey]

What they said about the tile removal. For kitchens (well, everywhere, actually), I love, love, love LVP! I especially like the cork-backed products for extra forgiveness and comfort. If you want, pm me and I'll share a link to our last flip house project so you can see it in place.

[PoutineLover]

My preferred option would be hardwood floors, but I'm concerned about sanding the existing ones if there's asbestos adhesive stuck to them, and with getting matching wood for the section that's rotten. I think it'll be important to see the condition once we get all the gross flooring off to know whether the existing wood could be restored, otherwise we will probably be putting something on top. Waterproof and durable is definitely important, I'll have to do some more research into LVP.

[Fishindude]

Asbestos in tiles is one of the safest forms to find it as it is held together with binders and not considered friable (likely to crumble and shed fibers into the air to be inhaled). When I remove suspect tiles like that, I just wear a good respirator, have good airflow venting outside and do a good job of cleaning all surfaces after I'm done before removing protective equipment. Where I wouldn't remove stuff is highly friable pipe insulation. There one really needs to create a negative pressure situation when removing it so that the fibers don't contaminate the rest of the house.

Asbestos, much like mold, is way over hyped. People think it is banned and it isn't. People think it hasn't been used since the 70's and that's not true. It can still be found in everyday products like caulking, joint compound, shingles and yes, even floor tiles.  Our country went through a period where the effects were known and yet hid for reasons of greed and many people in manufacturing environments paid the price in many high profile cases and that is where the bad rap came about. It is dangerous stuff that can cause cancer when improperly handled so nothing to sneeze at but it can be safely dealt with DIY especially in floor tile form.

Asbestos disposal probably depends on your state but in my state and others I am familiar, all that has to be done is to seal it in a plastic trash bag and taken to the landfill where I just pay the basic tonnage fee. It can't be disposed of in the curbside trash.

Good advice above.   It's a way over rated hazard and not much to be concerned with.
Just scrape it up, bag it and take to the landfill.       

[Dicey]

You might find this info helpful. https://www.asbestos.com/blog/2018/07/13/asbestos-floor-tile-diy-removal/

Check your local regulations before assuming you can just dispose of it in your local landfill.