Author Topic: Tankless water heater  (Read 17219 times)

skunkfunk

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Tankless water heater
« on: November 10, 2014, 10:30:27 AM »
I have an old 90's water heater, and I want to go tankless. It's gas. I think there's enough gas to run a tankless, but I don't know that for sure. I'm not even sure where to start. I've never done any plumbing (nothing has broken yet) so I'm not sure whether this is a good first project to tackle.

Any advice? Budget, concerns, should I take some pics and post them, ? I decided to come here to a place I trust before trying to sift through all the bullshit I'll find with google.

solon

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2014, 11:08:31 AM »
The fewer the number of people in your house, the more you will save over a tank heater. Because there are fewer showers, less water will be heated with the tankless than with the tank.

I have a Rinnai tankless, gas powered water heater. It works great, provides all the hot water we need. In fact, we can run two showers simultaneously and never run out of hot water. (I tested it.) But we have six people in our family, so the energy savings is minimal. The savings would be a lot greater for a smaller family.

skunkfunk

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2014, 11:10:08 AM »
The fewer the number of people in your house, the more you will save over a tank heater. Because there are fewer showers, less water will be heated with the tankless than with the tank.

I have a Rinnai tankless, gas powered water heater. It works great, provides all the hot water we need. In fact, we can run two showers simultaneously and never run out of hot water. (I tested it.) But we have six people in our family, so the energy savings is minimal. The savings would be a lot greater for a smaller family.

Cool. My house is two, with a baby on the way. I suspect the savings will be good.

The efficiency is my excuse for doing it, but I really want rid of that tank. It is dirty, and a week after draining it the water is back to slightly yellow. I don't want to come home to a flooded house as it is in the middle of the main hallway.

solon

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2014, 11:11:35 AM »
Yeah, those are all good benefits. Another good benefit is size. Mine is about the size of a picnic cooler, and hangs on a wall in the closet. Much smaller than a 40-gallon tank-type.

skunkfunk

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2014, 11:12:43 AM »
Yeah, those are all good benefits. Another good benefit is size. Mine is about the size of a picnic cooler, and hangs on a wall in the closet. Much smaller than a 40-gallon tank-type.

What price range should I be looking in? Was installation difficult?

solon

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2014, 11:15:52 AM »
That's right, we're in the DIY category :(

I've had it for several years, so I don't remember the price. And I hired a plumber to install it. I don't remember it being a huge expense though.

Anybody else?

Greg

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2014, 10:07:22 AM »
A Rinnai 85i or 95i is about $1500 IIRC in my area with vent kit and valve kit which you want/need.  Installation will vary depending on how your current heater is set up.

One nice thing about the Rinnai is it's a smart heater and the burner system is adjustable, meaning it will use fewer burners when you are flowing less hot water.

Another nice thing it the control panel which lets you adjust the hot water temp (I put mine near the laundry) so for everyday use you can set it to 120ºF and then bump it to 140ºF for sheets.

Also, check your current gas vent route since the Rinnai can vent either through the roof or a sidewall, via a coaxial vent pipe.  If the current heater is in a closet or other vented space, you can close it off once the Rinnai is installed since it gets combustion air via the vent pipe.

jabba

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2014, 07:56:55 AM »
I installed a Rinnai two years ago. At the time I was able to get it on amazon for around $1300 including the special vent pipes it needed. This was the 98i series, so enough to run 4 showers. The very first thing to do is to call your natural gas company and ask them to come check your meter and gas pipes. In my case, the original tank heater was in the garage and I put the new tankless in a closet that I built for it in one of the bathrooms, so I had to add 30 feet of pipe. Pipe sizing is important. The gas company representative will come to your house, look at your meter, look at the tankless unit that you want to install and tell you exactly what size piping you need, if it's different from the original pipe size. This cost nothing to have checked out. In my area, you need to have a permit to do *any* kind of water heater replacement at all, let alone, relocating it, going tankless, changing pipes, etc. I ended up doing all the work myself, with the help of a family member who is a plumber. I mounted the unit on the inside of an outside wall and cut holes in that wall for the vent pipe, the condensate drain, etc. It took a whole weekend to do the plumbing and get it all set up.

I've had it about two years now and have had no problems at all, the water gets hot quickly and stays a nice constant temperature, regardless of how long I shower for. I've even had 3 people take showers at the same time, with no issues at all. One time I did have one small issue.. It got cold enough outside that the condensate drain pipe started to freeze and the unit shut down with an error code. I looked up the code in the owner's manual and I found the frozen pipe outside. It's a copper pipe, so I applied some heat with a propane torch to thaw it out, and it was all back up and running nicely. It doesn't get that cold where I am very often, so I don't feel a long term solution is needed for this. I can always temporarily disconnect that drain pipe and put a 5-gallon bucket under the drain for a day if needed.

skunkfunk

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2014, 08:05:43 AM »
Despite your good experience with the tankless, my coworker (mech engineer, does hvac and plumbing) has convinced me that I should go with a high efficiency model with a tank and put a coalescing filter in front of it. He had some pretty solid reasons as to why a tankless would actually make my problems worse in this case, problems being sediment, sulfur, etc.

deborah

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2014, 10:12:47 AM »
Be interesting to hear his reasons.

skunkfunk

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2014, 10:15:17 AM »
Be interesting to hear his reasons.

It basically amounted to my crappy well water. He said the tankless will burn hotter or something and make my issues with the water even worse.

bacchi

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2014, 11:33:54 AM »
What's the electric power draw for a tankless? Could I put one on a switch and keep it turned off until I need hot water?

solon

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2014, 03:34:02 PM »
What's the electric power draw for a tankless? Could I put one on a switch and keep it turned off until I need hot water?

A gas powered tankless heater uses very little electricity. You could easily put it on a switch. But you don't need to. Since it doesn't keep a tank of water hot, there is no power consumption, either gas or electricity, if you are not using hot water.

guitar_stitch

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2014, 07:23:52 AM »
Be interesting to hear his reasons.

It basically amounted to my crappy well water. He said the tankless will burn hotter or something and make my issues with the water even worse.

If you have high mineral content in your water, Tankless heaters are reportedly prone to damage due to sediment setting in and blocking pipes.

ManyMountains

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2014, 01:38:44 PM »
My gas water heater is 18 years old. Haven't had any problems with it, but I know it won't last much longer. I had someone come out to do an estimate for installing a tankless heater and it came out to $1800, mostly because of having to add a 1.25" gas pipe for the tankless, which needs upwards of 200,000 BTU (3-4 bathrooms). I currently have a 0.5" pipe leading to the water heater which can provide something like 50,000 BTU.

So, I could pay $1300 for the tankless plus $1800 for new gas pipes and install OR $600 for the most energy efficient replacement tank model and install it myself in a few hours. That $2500 would take a loooooong time to payback. Especially since it's much easier and cheaper to just reduce water usage. We currently use 1/3 or the "normal" similarly sized house in our town.

Just my experience. For some, the tankless makes sense. For others, it might be like buying the new Prius because of the great gas mileage, when really the better solution is to ride your bike more often and drive an older used compact car.

Greg

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2014, 03:04:13 PM »
If you have sediment or other water quality issues, they may also affect a tank style heater.  I have a Rinnai and have a small sediment filter in the supply line.  I change the filter a couple of times a year.

I recommend a filter if you have sediment, sand, rust or other similar problems regardless of what kind of heater you get.  Debris can clog your faucet aerators, cause faucet and other valves to leak, especially toilets, and so on.

Spork

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2014, 12:37:31 PM »

Once a year: I rinse the filter and flush the manifold with vinegar for about an hour.  That will get rid of any scale.


What's the electric power draw for a tankless? Could I put one on a switch and keep it turned off until I need hot water?

I'm not sure if you're talking about electric power for a gas tankless or for an electric tankless.

A gas tankless has minimal draw.  It mostly uses the power as an electric ignition and to open/close the valves. 
An electric tankless has a massive draw.  It is often 120+ amps ... usually 4x 30amp breakers.  You usually need a 400amp panel to even consider it. 

guitar_stitch

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2014, 07:23:16 AM »
If you have sediment or other water quality issues, they may also affect a tank style heater.  I have a Rinnai and have a small sediment filter in the supply line.  I change the filter a couple of times a year.

I recommend a filter if you have sediment, sand, rust or other similar problems regardless of what kind of heater you get.  Debris can clog your faucet aerators, cause faucet and other valves to leak, especially toilets, and so on.

Indeed!  At least a tank heater has a drain on the bottom that you can flush the tank with.

Florida is liquid rock pretty much everywhere.

NinetyFour

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2014, 09:03:53 AM »
I have a gas tankless water heater.  Bosch Aquastar.  Love it.  IIRC, it cost about $1000.  I had a plumber install it.  I was able to deduct some of the cost of it (and the installation) on taxes.

I love it.  I live alone, and normally shower at work, so I use very little hot water at home.  For my situation, constantly heating a large tank of water doesn't make much sense.

Sid Hoffman

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2014, 10:09:20 AM »
My gas water heater is 18 years old. Haven't had any problems with it,

Yeah that's the difference between fresh water and high mineral content water.  Here in the desert, water heaters last 3 to 6 years, even if you drain them every 12 months.  It's amazing how quickly you get calcification damage and destroyed water heaters here.

Spork

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2014, 01:49:32 PM »
My gas water heater is 18 years old. Haven't had any problems with it,

Yeah that's the difference between fresh water and high mineral content water.  Here in the desert, water heaters last 3 to 6 years, even if you drain them every 12 months.  It's amazing how quickly you get calcification damage and destroyed water heaters here.

When you drain it... are you also changing out the sacrificial anode? 

DIY or Die

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2014, 01:58:05 PM »
@ ManyMountains

Running your own gas line will cost you less than $300 so don't rule it out because of the quote on the work.  Buy your supplies at your local Plumbing supply they are half the cost of Home Depot.  Buy mega bubbles to test your pipe joints.

I personally opted away from a tankless just because of how complicated they are.  If you ever look at the tear apart diagrams in the install manuals there are many different solenoids, valves and computer chips that can go wrong.  While each one isn't very expensive your are going to have a nightmare trying to take it all apart and put it back together.  A simple tank is will be more reliable in my opinion.

Primm

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2014, 03:47:06 PM »
We had a gas tankless water heater in our previous (rented) home. The landlord installed it, so I'm not sure how much it cost or anything.

The initial issue we had with it was that we didn't have enough water pressure flowing through to keep the thing lit! I'm not sure what the minimum flow rate was, but we had average town water pressure and you'd be having a shower and the water would suddenly get cold. We had low-flow water saving taps and shower head.

Once we removed the flow restrictor from the shower head everything was ok again. Except that with the kitchen tap, the flow was low (and the restrictor was part of the tap). So to get hot water in the kitchen sink we had to let the bathroom tap run hot too.

It was a major pain in the arse, let me tell you. If you have good pressure and no water-saving devices, they are really good. Otherwise not so much.

On the plus side we used even less gas than we should have, because half of our "hot" water was cold. :)

Sid Hoffman

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2014, 08:34:11 PM »
When you drain it... are you also changing out the sacrificial anode?

I have once in the past.  On my most recent water heater it was for a house I had recently purchased.  The lower heating element already had so much corrosion that I ended up just letting it fail on its own, which took about a year.  Changing out the anode wasn't going to buy much extra time on that one.  But yeah, true, you're supposed to check/replace the anode regularly and that should help you get more time out of it before failure.  Good call.

msilenus

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2014, 10:08:57 PM »
We recently replaced a Bosch with a Rinnai.  Plumber did it.  Went through Costco.  The Bosch was under warranty, but they refused to talk to anyone who wasn't gas certified, so there was no way to get it honored without paying hundreds of dollars to a contractor.  Our whole complex was done with Bosch tanklesses, and mysterious water heater issues are probably the most common complaint with the units.  Some peoples' work fine, but the failures are myriad and perplexing.  Some go super hot and then shut off.  One was screaming out the vent pipe for a while.  (Some kind of resonance.)  I don't think anyone can get warm water out of their sinks: have to choose between hot and cold because they don't flow as much water as showers.

Very happy with the decision to replace.  Very happy with the performance of the Rinnai.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 10:10:34 PM by msilenus »

jba302

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2014, 10:26:43 AM »
We recently replaced a Bosch with a Rinnai.  Plumber did it.  Went through Costco.  The Bosch was under warranty, but they refused to talk to anyone who wasn't gas certified, so there was no way to get it honored without paying hundreds of dollars to a contractor.  Our whole complex was done with Bosch tanklesses, and mysterious water heater issues are probably the most common complaint with the units.  Some peoples' work fine, but the failures are myriad and perplexing.  Some go super hot and then shut off.  One was screaming out the vent pipe for a while.  (Some kind of resonance.)  I don't think anyone can get warm water out of their sinks: have to choose between hot and cold because they don't flow as much water as showers.

Very happy with the decision to replace.  Very happy with the performance of the Rinnai.

For the sink thing you could do something like this -
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0095SNHBC/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687662&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B002WDVNYU&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1EGPKQXS8GCT0KCG93S7

Although you'd want it on it's own 15A circuit or share a 20A with the disposal / dishwasher.

msilenus

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2014, 10:59:41 AM »
Well, my sink is fine now.  We replaced our POS Bosch.

47%MMM

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2014, 08:36:33 AM »
Has anyone put a recirculating pump on a tankless unit? Does this defeat the point of having one? Are there any savings left with a tankless unit if you do?

The wife is requesting one because it's taking a while for the kitchen to get hot water but I'm resisting.

QajakBoy

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Recirculating pump
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2014, 09:36:26 AM »
A recirculating pump that ran continuously to keep hot water at the kitchen tap would definitely use much more energy.

One solution is would be a recirculating pump that ran only after someone hits a switch on a cabinet at the sink or has some other way of turning it on.  Then the pump runs until it senses hot water.  Objective info on this is available at https://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=water_heat.pr_demand_hot_water
One type is the a D'mand pump, but there are others.  Here's a video about installing one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE2QFLlEXNw

Greg

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2014, 10:15:51 AM »
A recirq. pump would use more energy, but less water.  And most of today's on demand heaters would, after a while, turn off even though the water was still moving, since the inlet temp would be considered "hot" after a while.  I've considered this for my kitchen where the hot water takes a long time to get there.

As QajakBoy says, a switch, motion controlled for instance, would be nice.  Walk in and the pump starts, by the time you need hot water at the sink it's there.  My only worry is that I think I would hear the pump.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 08:52:22 PM by Greg »

RunningWithScissors

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2014, 01:12:04 PM »
I love the idea of a tankless and replumbed the house during recent major renovations to suit future install of one.  However, when the old tank gave out last year, we chose to replace it with another tank.   I chatted with a number of plumbers who noted the payback period based on current gas prices in our area is still 20+ years.  Plus, we'd need to install a new vent out the side of the house, which is only 3' wide instead of 4' so that's a 'no-go'.  Prices were running about $1800 for the unit and another $1200 for parts and labour.  My husband replaced the old tank for about $400. 

Whatever you decide to do, just make sure to have proper permits.  Gas fired appliances are not to be messed around with.  Without permits and an inspection on record (not to imply that you can't do the work yourself!), you may not be able to sell the property.

Bob W

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2014, 10:25:24 AM »
When you are running your number on this project for water heater vs. tankless be sure to know your hot water usage.

Since we only use hot water for showers (never washer) we are basically paying $400 a year to keep 50 gallons of water hot.  We only use maybe 6 gallons per day of the hot water.

For me it makes abundant sense to go with a tankless model other than we don't have gas and I would need to run an expensive 220 line for 40 feet for electric.


skunkfunk

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2014, 10:33:01 AM »
When you are running your number on this project for water heater vs. tankless be sure to know your hot water usage.

Since we only use hot water for showers (never washer) we are basically paying $400 a year to keep 50 gallons of water hot.  We only use maybe 6 gallons per day of the hot water.

For me it makes abundant sense to go with a tankless model other than we don't have gas and I would need to run an expensive 220 line for 40 feet for electric.

Would you have enough power? Those things take quite a bit - I for one do not have a big enough service or panel for electric.

Bob W

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2014, 01:40:47 PM »
When you are running your number on this project for water heater vs. tankless be sure to know your hot water usage.

Since we only use hot water for showers (never washer) we are basically paying $400 a year to keep 50 gallons of water hot.  We only use maybe 6 gallons per day of the hot water.

For me it makes abundant sense to go with a tankless model other than we don't have gas and I would need to run an expensive 220 line for 40 feet for electric.

Would you have enough power? Those things take quite a bit - I for one do not have a big enough service or panel for electric.

Yeah,  that is the other part.  I would need to run another service panel as well.   

But in my future dream small house it will definitely be propane or natty gas on demand.   I imagine we would spend less than 90 dollars per year on hot water and perhaps half that with the addition of a dedicated solar hot water heater for evening showers after the sun has done its work.   


b4u2

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2014, 11:34:07 AM »
We have an electric Bosch powerstar ae125 that I bought and installed myself 6 years ago. At the time there was not very good info on this model. It only has enough hot water for one thing to be ran at a time. So showers are in shifts. After years of dealing with the frustration of someone using hot water while someone is taking a shower has convinced me to upgrade. I am buying an Ecosmart ECO 27 which can run at least two things a t a time and has very good reviews. We are a household of five. I had considered gas this time around but the Ecosmart I picked up for $380 and since I have the wiring in place for it already, seemed a better choice.


sky_northern

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2014, 12:52:24 PM »
It got cold enough outside that the condensate drain pipe started to freeze and the unit shut down with an error code. I looked up the code in the owner's manual and I found the frozen pipe outside. It's a copper pipe, so I applied some heat with a propane torch to thaw it out, and it was all back up and running nicely. It doesn't get that cold where I am very often, so I don't feel a long term solution is needed for this. I can always temporarily disconnect that drain pipe and put a 5-gallon bucket under the drain for a day if needed.
We were just talking about hot water heaters at work this morning. My co-worker put in a tankless this summer but now he is having a lot of issues with condensation freezing the outlet. His fix is a hairdryer to thaw it out occasionally. That doesn't seem ideal to me.

I spend about $25/month for my water heater - I know this because that is the gas bill when the furnace is turned off. So I'm not sure for me if the pain of it is worth it.

AccidentalMiser

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2014, 01:34:20 PM »

Once a year: I rinse the filter and flush the manifold with vinegar for about an hour.  That will get rid of any scale.


What's the electric power draw for a tankless? Could I put one on a switch and keep it turned off until I need hot water?

I'm not sure if you're talking about electric power for a gas tankless or for an electric tankless.

A gas tankless has minimal draw.  It mostly uses the power as an electric ignition and to open/close the valves. 
An electric tankless has a massive draw.  It is often 120+ amps ... usually 4x 30amp breakers.  You usually need a 400amp panel to even consider it.

I have an electric tankless which provides hot water for all our family of three's needs (three adults who like to be clean).  It's a Rheem RTE 13 and I got it from Amazon for a couple hundred bucks.  It runs on a dedicated circuit but it doesn't draw anything like 120 amps. It might pull 60.  We don't have a dedicated panel for it.

Anyway, we love our electric tankless.  You have to think before you shower and communicate with the other occupants of the house occasionally (I'm going to take a shower now, please don't start the dishwasher for the next 15 minutes), but it's totally worth it.  It might cost us ten bucks a month to run it. 

When we moved in, I was bummed because I really wanted a gas tankless and we live too far off the road to have nat gas.  Now, I'm so glad I didn't put a gas one in!

skunkfunk

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2014, 01:48:53 PM »
You have to think before you shower and communicate with the other occupants of the house occasionally (I'm going to take a shower now, please don't start the dishwasher for the next 15 minutes)

I can't run any 2 fixtures aside from bathroom sink faucets on cold, much less hot. If you're showering, no pressure at any sink.

Spork

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2014, 03:49:49 PM »

Once a year: I rinse the filter and flush the manifold with vinegar for about an hour.  That will get rid of any scale.


What's the electric power draw for a tankless? Could I put one on a switch and keep it turned off until I need hot water?

I'm not sure if you're talking about electric power for a gas tankless or for an electric tankless.

A gas tankless has minimal draw.  It mostly uses the power as an electric ignition and to open/close the valves. 
An electric tankless has a massive draw.  It is often 120+ amps ... usually 4x 30amp breakers.  You usually need a 400amp panel to even consider it.

I have an electric tankless which provides hot water for all our family of three's needs (three adults who like to be clean).  It's a Rheem RTE 13 and I got it from Amazon for a couple hundred bucks.  It runs on a dedicated circuit but it doesn't draw anything like 120 amps. It might pull 60.  We don't have a dedicated panel for it.

Anyway, we love our electric tankless.  You have to think before you shower and communicate with the other occupants of the house occasionally (I'm going to take a shower now, please don't start the dishwasher for the next 15 minutes), but it's totally worth it.  It might cost us ten bucks a month to run it. 

When we moved in, I was bummed because I really wanted a gas tankless and we live too far off the road to have nat gas.  Now, I'm so glad I didn't put a gas one in!

60 amps surprised me... so I went to look at it.  It claims it is designed to run a single sink shower.  You may be running more than that.  It is 4 GPM.  As long as you have that in mind for your expectations... it should work I guess.  That's not a very big flow rate for a whole house though.

[edit: change sink to shower... I was looking at several models and my eyes and fingers did not cooperate. ]
« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 02:27:20 PM by Spork »

AccidentalMiser

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2014, 04:15:37 PM »

Once a year: I rinse the filter and flush the manifold with vinegar for about an hour.  That will get rid of any scale.


What's the electric power draw for a tankless? Could I put one on a switch and keep it turned off until I need hot water?

I'm not sure if you're talking about electric power for a gas tankless or for an electric tankless.

A gas tankless has minimal draw.  It mostly uses the power as an electric ignition and to open/close the valves. 
An electric tankless has a massive draw.  It is often 120+ amps ... usually 4x 30amp breakers.  You usually need a 400amp panel to even consider it.

I have an electric tankless which provides hot water for all our family of three's needs (three adults who like to be clean).  It's a Rheem RTE 13 and I got it from Amazon for a couple hundred bucks.  It runs on a dedicated circuit but it doesn't draw anything like 120 amps. It might pull 60.  We don't have a dedicated panel for it.

Anyway, we love our electric tankless.  You have to think before you shower and communicate with the other occupants of the house occasionally (I'm going to take a shower now, please don't start the dishwasher for the next 15 minutes), but it's totally worth it.  It might cost us ten bucks a month to run it. 

When we moved in, I was bummed because I really wanted a gas tankless and we live too far off the road to have nat gas.  Now, I'm so glad I didn't put a gas one in!

60 amps surprised me... so I went to look at it.  It claims it is designed to run a single sink shower.  You may be running more than that.  It is 4 GPM.  As long as you have that in mind for your expectations... it should work I guess.  That's not a very big flow rate for a whole house though.

[edit: change sink to shower... I was looking at several models and my eyes and fingers did not cooperate. ]
We can run two fixtures together although we usually don't.  It's not a big flow rate for a whole house but we are mustachian in our water usage and are willing to think before we act. 

In many ways, it helps us be mindful of our use of resources because if we don't think before we act, we get a cold shot in the shower!

It's not for everyone but I'd rather have a 80% capacity system instead of a 200% system.

Spork

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2014, 09:24:50 PM »
Nothing wrong with that.  Figuring out ways to hack things is very mustacian.   I was just putting a caveat there... so no one tried to replace their 50 gallon tank heater servicing a 4 bathroom, 3500 sqft house with that model.

AccidentalMiser

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #41 on: December 14, 2014, 11:27:01 AM »
Nothing wrong with that.  Figuring out ways to hack things is very mustacian.   I was just putting a caveat there... so no one tried to replace their 50 gallon tank heater servicing a 4 bathroom, 3500 sqft house with that model.
That would be...unfortunate.

HipGnosis

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #42 on: December 14, 2014, 06:06:35 PM »
I heard on a DIY radio show today that tank water heaters are going to be more efficient (and more expensive) next year do to some new regulation.
They also mentioned the high maintenance and long ROI of tankless heaters.

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Re: Tankless water heater
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2014, 01:37:25 PM »
I just upgraded and installed an ECOSMART 27 for $380 from Amazon. So far very impressed with it. Does way better than my old one. I got lucky that it used the same wiring and fit in the same spot as my old one. We turned the tub on full and the master shower with no loss of hot water. We can tunr the heater up to 140f but found we only need it set on 110f.