Author Topic: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed  (Read 4754 times)

Frankies Girl

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Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« on: May 18, 2020, 02:12:40 AM »
UPDATE HERE: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/do-it-yourself-forum!/eat-a-bag-of-decks-tools-needed-to-stop-getting-screwed/msg2645050/#msg2645050


Old wood deck. Around 10 foot by 10 foot, at least 15 years since the last boards were replaced, actual footers they are screwed into are original and likely 25 years or older. Screws are the #@#! square holed deck screws, so totally easy to accidentally round them out, and every one is stuck in there like it's the sword in the stone. Using a corded B&D drill. I got 6 of them out in an hour and had to stop so my poor drill could cool down. At this rate, it will take weeks if I'm able to actually remove all of them, and there are several I skipped over because they would not move no matter what I tried.

I have to get them out because it has several rotted boards despite being treated and of course we just discovered there are termites that are going to town on the footer. I may be able to save most of the deck but that footer and at least 3 boards have to be removed and replaced. I'd really like to take the whole damn thing out, but there are 400+ screws so that sounds like I've died and been sent to hell and trying to break down a deck is my eternal punishment.

I am wondering if another tool like an impact driver may help? I've read about using a dremel to cut a flathead slot into the tops, but of course all they are all countersunk and the idea of having to cut 400+ @#!##$ deck screws and then slowly attempt to remove them also sounds like a crap sundae with hot garbage on top.

 #@!# deck project is going to be the death of me. I can likely solve the problem quicker if I just go buy some of the newly cheap gasoline and set that mutherfucker on fire, but I'd prefer to try at least one more round of button button who's got the button RE: the proper tool before I proceed to alert the neighbors that they were right about me.

Help anyone?
« Last Edit: June 15, 2020, 07:40:29 PM by Frankies Girl »

Morning Glory

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2020, 03:02:58 AM »
You can get magnetic tube things that attach to your drill and help hold the screw in place. I don't remember what they are actually called, but they are really helpful.

vodsonic

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2020, 04:07:14 AM »
YMMV, but based on what you're describing, I'd try a combination of the following:

1. A recent, cordless 18-20 volt driver with brushless motor and adjustable torque (Milwaukee, Makita, DeWalt, etc.). This will have the power you need, but give you more control over the torque, enabling you to finesse problem fasteners out. B&D is pro-sumer at best, and many corded drills are either on or off, with no in-between. Coupled with my next suggestion, a cordless impact driver may also help you.

2. High-quality bits for your driver - buy a 5-pack of DeWalt (or other quality brand) square bits. This is really important. Harbor Freight is not your friend when it comes to bits and blades.

3. Vise grips to back out really stuck or broken-off screws when you have to rip/cut the wood out.

4. Sawzall (reciprocating saw) with a selection of good blades to cut out some old boards as needed. If the board is beginning to rot, you may be able to carefully cut it off close to the sunk/stuck screws and lever a length of board off the screws, leaving them in the open and ready for more TLC from your driver or vise grips.


Frankies Girl

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2020, 05:16:50 AM »
Thank you both for the suggestions!

I have worked with magnetized stuff before, but in this case the screws are really, really embedded in the wood and not coming out so I think it's more about torque/brute force than maintaining contact.

Check on the Dewalt square bits - picked those up thinking that was all I needed. And up until now, the B&D was fine for the normal household needs. I'm not a major DIY builder so when it comes to power tools I'm pretty clueless, but realized I was definitely underpowered for the deck from hell.



Will look into drivers with the stats, but investing in multiple power tools I'll likely never use again is depressing, so going to hold on a saw at the moment and see if I can finagle this stupid thing with just a new driver.

Any other ideas are welcome.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 05:19:14 AM by Frankies Girl »

lthenderson

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2020, 06:51:43 AM »
Square holed deck screws are what you want to see when you go to demo something like that because they are much easier to get out than say a philips head or slot head screw. You definitely need to get a impact driver drill and better quality bits so you don't round them off. Screws don't seize into wood so if your drill can't remove them, it just doesn't have the horsepower and you need to upgrade. If you do strip a screw head, the best bet is to get a sawzall with a demo blade and cut the screw off underneath if you can get to it.

Deck boards should most definitely last longer than 15 years if cared for. Our cabin deck is close to 40 years and still going strong. The deck on our house was put on by a previous owner but is probably around 20 years and still solid.

Fishindude

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2020, 07:23:28 AM »
Square holed deck screws are what you want to see when you go to demo something like that because they are much easier to get out than say a philips head or slot head screw. You definitely need to get a impact driver drill and better quality bits so you don't round them off. Screws don't seize into wood so if your drill can't remove them, it just doesn't have the horsepower and you need to upgrade. If you do strip a screw head, the best bet is to get a sawzall with a demo blade and cut the screw off underneath if you can get to it.

Deck boards should most definitely last longer than 15 years if cared for. Our cabin deck is close to 40 years and still going strong. The deck on our house was put on by a previous owner but is probably around 20 years and still solid.

Read the above.
Then read it again.

If these methods just aren't working, get a chain saw and cut it up into manageable size pieces, deck, joists and all and start over, just don't saw into any screws or your saw won't last long.

Papa bear

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2020, 07:35:07 AM »
Square holed deck screws are what you want to see when you go to demo something like that because they are much easier to get out than say a philips head or slot head screw. You definitely need to get a impact driver drill and better quality bits so you don't round them off. Screws don't seize into wood so if your drill can't remove them, it just doesn't have the horsepower and you need to upgrade. If you do strip a screw head, the best bet is to get a sawzall with a demo blade and cut the screw off underneath if you can get to it.

Deck boards should most definitely last longer than 15 years if cared for. Our cabin deck is close to 40 years and still going strong. The deck on our house was put on by a previous owner but is probably around 20 years and still solid.

Read the above.
Then read it again.

If these methods just aren't working, get a chain saw and cut it up into manageable size pieces, deck, joists and all and start over, just don't saw into any screws or your saw won't last long.
And read it again.  Id love square head screws in a demo project. Blows away Phillips and slotted should be banned forever. 

If you are rounding them out, you probably have the wrong size bit or you don’t have enough force pushing down to handle the torque.  Or maybe you’re just spinning the bit on top without actually turning the screw. 

If you really can’t get at these and you have a reciprocating saw, either cut the screw with a bimetal blade, or because you don’t care about these boards, use a demolition blade and cut the wood apart. 

Anyway, sounds like user error right now.


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index

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2020, 08:22:38 AM »
Use an impact driver or cut the screws with a reciprocating saw and a metal blade. I've removed 800 sf of old heart pine wood flooring  with a reciprocating saw and did not ruin the flooring or the structure below. 

Greystache

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2020, 08:43:07 AM »
I went through this about a year ago. I wish I had square heads, they are much easier to work with. Since you still have difficulty even with square head screws, here are some things that might help. First, make sure you have the right size driver head for the screws. Second, make sure you have the right tool for the job. You want an impact driver, not a drill with a driver bit in the chuck.
Third, and most important, make sure the bit is securely seated in the socket before you try to back it out.  If the screw head socket is filled with several layers of stain/paint or dirt, this will be nearly impossible and you have to go to plan B below. Assuming you have the right tools and a clean socket, then you have to make sure that the bit stays seated when you try to back out the screw. Lean on the impact driver with all your weight and give a try. If the socket is destroyed, you can chisel out a crater around the screw head and clamp onto it with a good quality vise grip pliers and twist the screw out, but this takes forever.
If none of these tips works, there is plan B. Get a Sawsall and a wrecking bar and cut it up.  This is not easy either but there are times when the screw is not coming out no matter what and this is your only option short of gasoline (not recommended :)

SunnyDays

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2020, 09:54:24 AM »
No clue about the proper tool, but do you have a tool rental place around you?  Might be cheaper than buying if you can do it all quickly with the right tools.

JLee

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2020, 10:18:32 AM »
Impact drivers are made for this.

Frankies Girl

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2020, 01:53:01 PM »
Couple of clarifications:

Gulf coast of texas.

The deck is pressure treated pine; the best case scenario is that it lasts 15 years.

i treated the deck every single year, cleaned and scrubbed down really well and allowed to dry, then put on waterproofing/UV protectant. I can't help the brutal weather eventually took its toll. Everything I'd say this is minimum 15 but the husband said the boards we replaced are at least 17 years old.The supporting framework is well over 20 years old. All things considered, it surpassed its lifespan.

I figured the basic drill was the wrong tool for the job, so thanks for the recommendations and confirming.

I am checking out impact drivers today and will go pick one up soon. Thought about renting, but we're debating about putting up a new fence and it seems like an impact driver may be a great thing to have for hundreds of pickets, so we'll get a decent one and it will hopefully pay for itself in fence install savings.

Glad to know that the crew that installed the deck stuff used the right screws for the job. We discovered several short cuts/cheaping out a year or so after we'd hired them, and at least that is something they did mostly right. I'm complaining because of course an average non-tool using homeowner won't have the square bits so it's just another step in a series of being a pain in the ass.


nereo

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2020, 02:04:42 PM »
Just tossing this out:  Don't ignore corded tools.  They are cheaper and will have similar torque to the higher-end battery versions. 
It can be especially helpful to have a corded tool when you are removing hundreds of screws (or cutting through hundreds with a reciprocating saw).

Given your brutal conditions (salt, sun, humidity, occasional hurricane) you might consider composite decking.

Also... square head (also called "Robertson Screws") > Phillips > slot-head.
But top of the pack are the T-star screws (e.g. used by GRK & Spax brands).  Expensive but absoltuely work it.

turketron

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2020, 02:33:31 PM »
I have no advice to impart, but I just wanted to say that this is my favorite thread title in a long time, thanks for the laugh!

Dicey

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2020, 02:35:09 PM »
I love the title, too. When DH gets home, I'll ask for his advice. That dude can fix anything.

J Boogie

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2020, 02:57:09 PM »
Ok, if the right bit and the right technique still leaves the square heads stripped,  there's one thing that you can do that will work.

You can use a saw to cut each condemned deck board right before each joist, so you have enough leverage to split the end of the board and free it to be able to access the screw with your chuck. Fasten your chuck around the stripped, exposed screw as tight as you can and reverse it.

Best saw for the job? probably a recip saw that you sneak in diagonally so you don't damage the other boards you want to keep. Trying to lower a circ saw in just the right place might get a little rowdy if you're not experienced using one.


Wrenchturner

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2020, 03:34:14 PM »
As others have mentioned, an impact driver and good bits will really help.  I've dealt with fasteners like this for years.  You often need to lean a substantial amount of force into the screw to keep the bit from slipping out.  And I'm nearly 200lb.  Lean with your left hand on the rear of the driver.  Usually you can back off the pressure once the fastener starts to turn.  You'll get a feel for it.  If the bit is slipping you're probably not applying enough pressure, or the screw head filled with debris. 

A drill is really going to struggle at this and you might roast the windings or the brushes on the drill.

Valley of Plenty

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2020, 04:26:22 PM »
I too have no useful advice to offer, but damn do you have a way with words!

Do you have a blog? Because you should. Your writing style is unique and incredibly amusing.

Frankies Girl

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2020, 05:05:33 PM »
I do not have a blog, but am pickled as hell that anyone is amused by my writing. Pickled is my "pleased and tickled" portmandu word. But this deck is driving me to drink, so there's always the other better known slang meaning of the word pickled is sure to come to fruition before the week is over.


I do appreciate all the insights/help/criticisms. I am in age a full-grown walking on my hind legs adult, but as I had very little instruction on being an actual adult, some areas/skillsets are grossly inadequate and I often feel like I'm faking it most days. I honestly would have loved learning how to do things like build decks, furniture, work on cars, but for some reason my father never thought to teach me what he knew.

Something hilariously sad is that he was super ultra hysterical about us kids touching his guns. He refused to get a gun safe, so just put the fear of god into us about do not even look at them or they might shoot us somehow. I remember asking him as an adult why he never bothered to TEACH US proper gun safety/handling as children so we'd know how to treat them and respect them properly but not be afeared for our very life if we so much as glanced towards the closet they were stored in... he honestly had no reason. He was not biased about girls learning how to use guns. The "hilariously sad" part is my dad was a GUN INSTRUCTOR IN THE ARMY. He trained hundreds of recruits how to use pistols and Browning automatic rifles (his two faves/specialties).

Same thing here regarding power tools, working on cars/houses/etc. He built houses as a teen/20 something and used to work on the family car for all the stuff people usually pay someone else to do. I'm lucky I badgered him to death as a teen to get him to teach me how to change a freaking tire.

I think he was just lazy and lacked patience? I had to have a high school friend teach me to drive as he was really short tempered the few times I got him to let me practice.

And unfortunately my husband is spotty in the whole home improvement/repair/using tools thing as well. We're both muddling along, but it's much harder as an adult to learn stuff like this, and you do reach an age where you're just sort of resigned to having to figure this out and not as excited to learn new things. I get a glimmer every once in a while, and I have hopes that this tool may be fun to figure out how to use for other project we would typically hire out. So there's that anyway.

Gasoline is holding steady at $1.29/gallon. Still tempting. But I'll bet the s'mores would have a funny taste.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 09:27:20 AM by Frankies Girl »

nereo

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2020, 05:14:33 PM »
Quote
I am in age a full-grown walking on my hind legs adult, but as I had very little instruction on being an actual adult, some areas/skillsets are grossly inadequate and I often feel like I'm faking it most days.

Honestly I feel this way on a daily basis.

lthenderson

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2020, 09:07:56 PM »
I thought I should throw this out too. When buying Robertson (square head) bits for your impact driver when you get it, buy a package of them. Even good quality ones will wear out over time especially when you are removing old screws and don't get them seated in fully. The corners will round over with wear and they will eventually start rounding out the square heads. I treat all my impact driver bits as consumable items and replace them from time to time with new ones. On a single deck or fence project, I might go through two or three of them. The ones that last the longest are the hex ones as someone mentioned above but they also cost the most to purchase.

Jon Bon

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2020, 07:57:56 AM »
Owning an impact driver is a life changing experience.

That is all.

BudgetSlasher

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2020, 07:14:55 AM »
Owning an impact driver is a life changing experience.

That is all.

yup. Bought myself one years ago. Recently I was at the state surplus property sale and saw the same model for $10 w/o batteries ... now I have 2.

Only downside I have is that mine are "12v" lithium and they don't last long and struggle driving if my project requires longer structural screws. But the lightweight aspect makes it a good trade off. 

big_owl

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2020, 10:43:53 AM »
I'm going against the grain here, I hate square bit screws.  Give me torx screws over squares any day of the week.  In fact I'd support a Congressional bill banning anything but torx screws for all projects going forward.  Phillips and flat heads should be downright illegal.

But yeah, impact driver is where it's at.  I have a pneumatic one but I've read good things about modern battery units. I also like having a rotary hammer.  No, not a hammer drill (these are useless), a rotary hammer. 


Dicey

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2020, 01:34:35 PM »
Piling on, because I finally got DH to look at your post. He says go to Harbor Freight with a 20% off holiday coupon and buy an impact driver. It won't be the best quality, but it will do the job for you. Good luck @Frankies Girl!

Edited because I missed a few key words...
« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 04:17:53 PM by Dicey »

bacchi

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2020, 01:50:07 PM »
No clue about the proper tool, but do you have a tool rental place around you?  Might be cheaper than buying if you can do it all quickly with the right tools.

The Big Box stores will rent reciprocating saws. Sometimes they even have used ones to sell.


Frankies Girl

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2020, 01:17:41 PM »
I ordered a fancy (but still on sale) impact driver from Home Depot, but it is taking forever (of course it was out of stock and had to be ordered online).

SO I am going to try @Dicey  's  Harbor Freight suggestion (thank you!). Will attempt to get over there today to purchase. They actually have a pretty high rated 20v impact driver with battery pack/charger for under $90 in their sales flyer and if it sucks, I can take it back (I double checked their return policy). I am aware of the quality of HF's offerings and usually don't shop there often, but they do have some great deals on things. :)

If it's decent tho, will be canceling the Home Depot one.

Weather is stormy this whole coming week, so will have to hope we can get some work time in. Would be so nice to get a hard look at the deck to see if it's save or remove.

nereo

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2020, 05:19:05 PM »
I ordered a fancy (but still on sale) impact driver from Home Depot, but it is taking forever (of course it was out of stock and had to be ordered online).

SO I am going to try @Dicey  's  Harbor Freight suggestion (thank you!). Will attempt to get over there today to purchase. They actually have a pretty high rated 20v impact driver with battery pack/charger for under $90 in their sales flyer and if it sucks, I can take it back (I double checked their return policy). I am aware of the quality of HF's offerings and usually don't shop there often, but they do have some great deals on things. :)

If it's decent tho, will be canceling the Home Depot one.

Weather is stormy this whole coming week, so will have to hope we can get some work time in. Would be so nice to get a hard look at the deck to see if it's save or remove.

FWI, Home Depot now has 180 day return policy due to COVID, so my suggestion would be to use the HF impact driver and just keep the one from HD in its box in case the HF one gives you trouble, and you don’t have to rush to the store return it right away.

Also, had to drive about 500 screws into a subfloor on a project today, and I was thanking my stars I had an impact driver with two batteries.  But was also thinking of your project and what a bear it is.  You have my sympathies/support/DIY-power!



Frankies Girl

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2020, 05:24:51 PM »
I ordered a fancy (but still on sale) impact driver from Home Depot, but it is taking forever (of course it was out of stock and had to be ordered online).

SO I am going to try @Dicey  's  Harbor Freight suggestion (thank you!). Will attempt to get over there today to purchase. They actually have a pretty high rated 20v impact driver with battery pack/charger for under $90 in their sales flyer and if it sucks, I can take it back (I double checked their return policy). I am aware of the quality of HF's offerings and usually don't shop there often, but they do have some great deals on things. :)

If it's decent tho, will be canceling the Home Depot one.

Weather is stormy this whole coming week, so will have to hope we can get some work time in. Would be so nice to get a hard look at the deck to see if it's save or remove.

FWI, Home Depot now has 180 day return policy due to COVID, so my suggestion would be to use the HF impact driver and just keep the one from HD in its box in case the HF one gives you trouble, and you don’t have to rush to the store return it right away.

Also, had to drive about 500 screws into a subfloor on a project today, and I was thanking my stars I had an impact driver with two batteries.  But was also thinking of your project and what a bear it is.  You have my sympathies/support/DIY-power!

The HD one isn't even coming in until June 1, and I should know if the Harbor Freight one is going to work today. If it doesn't, will pick up the HD one to keep.

Got the Harbor Freight one (was highly rated and had lots of reviews from guys stating it was surprisingly reliable/strong) so hoping it works out well, as it was half the price of HD's. Waiting for the charge up now and hope to test it out later today as the sun's been out for a few hours.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 05:30:08 PM by Frankies Girl »

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2020, 05:41:32 PM »
If you haven't already bought one, I whole-heartedly recommend this little handheld impact. I've driven 10's of thousands of deck screws with it over the years, finally bought a second pair of batteries for it. The variable trigger lets you finesse that last rotation to set screw heads flush. In fact, I just built a 10x10 deck a week ago with it using #2 square drive bits. No pilots, no stripping. Screws run in (and come out) as fast as you can grab them from the bucket.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Bosch-12-Volt-Max-1-4-in-1-2-in-Variable-Speed-Cordless-Impact-Driver-2-Batteries-Included/3265403?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-tol-_-google-_-lia-_-129-_-cordlessdrillsandcombokits-_-3265403-_-0&store_code=1712&placeholder=null&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI79zblpfQ6QIVUfDACh3FyADzEAQYCCABEgI3xPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


Telecaster

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2020, 05:44:50 PM »
I do appreciate all the insights/help/criticisms. I am in age a full-grown walking on my hind legs adult....

LOL!  That's something my dad used to say.  Actually, he'd usually say something like "that guy is the dumbest bastard who ever walked around on his hind legs..."


Papa bear

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2020, 06:35:05 PM »
If you haven't already bought one, I whole-heartedly recommend this little handheld impact. I've driven 10's of thousands of deck screws with it over the years, finally bought a second pair of batteries for it. The variable trigger lets you finesse that last rotation to set screw heads flush. In fact, I just built a 10x10 deck a week ago with it using #2 square drive bits. No pilots, no stripping. Screws run in (and come out) as fast as you can grab them from the bucket.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Bosch-12-Volt-Max-1-4-in-1-2-in-Variable-Speed-Cordless-Impact-Driver-2-Batteries-Included/3265403?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-tol-_-google-_-lia-_-129-_-cordlessdrillsandcombokits-_-3265403-_-0&store_code=1712&placeholder=null&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI79zblpfQ6QIVUfDACh3FyADzEAQYCCABEgI3xPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Agree with this recommendation. It’s awesome.  I wish Bosch had a better 12v line and they went on sale more, though.  May have to eventually join team Milwaukee when those batteries end up kicking the bucket.


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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2020, 07:05:10 PM »
This is totally crazy suggestion, but here goes:

If you decide you want to replace wood with composite, what about renting a chain saw and a pickup truck and just going to town on the deck and taking the remains to the dump?  (Or maybe someone on Craigslist wants the wood?)  That's basically the same as your fire idea but without risking burning down your house.   

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2020, 07:26:57 PM »
Update:


Harbor Freight's 20v 1/4" hex impact driver: bought with charger and battery (both sold separately). Had a deal where they give you $25 back when buying any combo of tool+charger+battery. Grand total with tax just under $95. Tool is light, easy to use. Drawbacks: it's all the way on or all the way off; no light pressure to regulate speed. So it rounded out the drill bit after 4 screws. Not enough to make the bit unusable, but still.

And there were STILL screws that basically are in there and not budging. It's strong, but not strong enough to do the job without a whole lot of aggravation and still won't get us there 100%.

But we got the worst board off.

Aaaaaaaaand there's more termites. At least 3 subterranean mud tunnels, and lots of the little buggers on the underside of the board. On ONE board. And there's at least 3 other boards that look hinky like this one so fully expect it to be that way under those as well. 

Which means the deck is not worth it to me to try and save. I'm not replacing a few boards when it's obvious after prying off the one board and checking the undercarriage/joists that the builder obviously did not use proper ground clearance as it's sitting directly on the dirt, and it was soooooo damp/wet under there. There were concrete pavers used for the OUTSIDE boards, but ALL the interior joists are directly on the ground, so they cheated. We did have rain yesterday into the wee morning hours, but there is low air circulation in there, and we have hot/humid weather about 9 months out of the year usually so it's a perpetual termite heaven.

I am okay with ripping it out, and maybe trying to put in a nice paver patio. I think it makes more sense for this climate anyway.

I am not okay with the amount of frustration/money/sweat equity we'll be using up removing this deck, but unless we run into something really terrible we feel like removing it ourselves is the best way to move forward, and we are both FIREd anyway so our time is our own, and hey - crappy summer project!


I'm torn on returning the impact driver since we'll not be needing it for any specific project now. We do need to go get a saw to cut the deck up into haul-away sized pieces.

Fortunately my trash service takes wood/bulk items as long as there are no exposed nails/screws(instructed to remove or hammer down), and we cut it into 4 foot sections. May take about two-three weeks to get it all hauled off, but that's a bonus that we don't have to pay extra for that part anyway.


LWYRUP

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2020, 08:20:47 PM »
We had a deck that was just off the ground, water sloped towards the house, pile of termites under it.  Just like you. 

We got the deck ripped out, graded so the earth was right up to our back door (rather than 1 foot down) and the low point in the lawn was out in the yard rather than next to our house, we had an exterminator spray for terminates, we had the soil compacted with a machine and then got a brick paver patio put down.

We hired all this out (not FIRED and little kids and no time) and it was hella expensive but it's great.  Water flows AWAY from the house, termites dead and gone, patio looks great and needs no maintenance. 

Termites near your house living happily under your deck is bad.  First, termites = bad.  Second, termites = moist = potential water issues with your foundation.  The paver patio solution worked great for us. 

You can DIY it if you want but don't skimp on dealing with the grading if needed and with compacting the soil before laying the pavers. 

These are the pavers we chose:  https://ephenry.com/products/chiseled-stone/.  Walls are hella expensive, which is why they are in all the pictures but the vast majority of people just lay down the pavers and call it a day.  (You can also save eleventy billion dollars by just laying pavers and buying a $50 fire pit from home depot instead of doing a built-in fire pit.)

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2020, 09:57:17 PM »
We had a deck that was just off the ground, water sloped towards the house, pile of termites under it.  Just like you. 

We got the deck ripped out, graded so the earth was right up to our back door (rather than 1 foot down) and the low point in the lawn was out in the yard rather than next to our house, we had an exterminator spray for terminates, we had the soil compacted with a machine and then got a brick paver patio put down.

We hired all this out (not FIRED and little kids and no time) and it was hella expensive but it's great.  Water flows AWAY from the house, termites dead and gone, patio looks great and needs no maintenance. 

Termites near your house living happily under your deck is bad.  First, termites = bad.  Second, termites = moist = potential water issues with your foundation.  The paver patio solution worked great for us. 

You can DIY it if you want but don't skimp on dealing with the grading if needed and with compacting the soil before laying the pavers. 

These are the pavers we chose:  https://ephenry.com/products/chiseled-stone/.  Walls are hella expensive, which is why they are in all the pictures but the vast majority of people just lay down the pavers and call it a day.  (You can also save eleventy billion dollars by just laying pavers and buying a $50 fire pit from home depot instead of doing a built-in fire pit.)


Those pavers are lovely. I'll bet your patio looks fabulous.

We have a Habitat ReStore near us that gets in some nice looking pavers and flagstones pretty regularly, so I'm hoping we'll be able to hit them at the right time and pick up enough to make a nice 10x10 patio.

The deck section that is on the chopping block (there are two 10x10 sections - see attachment) is exposed to the weather and gets hit by the patio roof's runoff so I'm not sure it's due to bad grading so much as constant rain/weather exposure coupled with poor ground clearance/construction. The section under the patio roofing seems in good shape, but we will be trying to remove a few boards to look at the ground/joists and see if it needs to come out too since the termites likely had been there for at least a year or longer to have done so much damage.

We had professional termite treatment around 3 years ago to the area around where the wood deck section touches the house and around the perimeter, and they also sprayed the 5+ year termiticide inside the walls near every area that plumbing came up through the slab foundation. We're not especially worried at the moment about the house itself but the deck has to go. (We did not continue using this company as they were jerks that forgot appointments and also forgot specialized equipment TWICE)
                                 
I like the idea of laying a stone patio. I've been doing lots of reading about how to dig out, add gravel and grade the base and then install pavers.

We've got nothing but time and this is a project we could learn how to do over a long period since it's not vital to rush (other than getting the deck out) and at least this type of project keeps both the brain and body active.

I just resodded the front yard and learned tons and it looks really great, so worst case, we'll remove the wood and put down sod. Not my fave idea, but depending on how much frustration removing the deck causes, I may not want to teach myself how to lay patio pavers this year.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 11:54:18 AM by Frankies Girl »

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2020, 09:15:46 AM »
I'm torn on returning the impact driver since we'll not be needing it for any specific project now. We do need to go get a saw to cut the deck up into haul-away sized pieces.

If it were me, I would return it if you can get your money back. Harbor Freight cordless power tools are cheaply designed and priced. If you had gotten a better quality one, they do have some measure of speed control by how far you press the trigger and also have a lot more torque which would probably have been able to remove the screws that the HF model couldn't.

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2020, 11:12:05 AM »
Impact drivers are made for this.

This is my experience as well. When I first saw them I thought the impact driver was something they threw into sets to make them number of tools bigger... Then I used one. They have limits and there are some things the drill is much better for, but I'd hate to build a deck without on.

ETA: A lot of cordless power tools are much cheaper if you buy a whole set of them at once. I've enjoyed the DeWalt set DW bought me for my birthday 6 years ago immensely and everything in it still works. I can't count the number of times I've run into an unexpected problem on a project and been able to solve it with something from that black and yellow bag. If you want to do more projects around the house in retirement I'd recommend the buy once cry once philosophy. If you're feeling done with DIY projects it's probably not worth it.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 11:23:36 AM by Alternatepriorities »

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2020, 11:28:53 AM »
I second the impact hammer.  It helps me get in/out many screws that I would otherwise strip.  If your old B&D corded drill was like my first drill, chuck it in a fire.  Get a good battery powered drill for like $80-100 from a good brand like Dewalt, Milwakue, Bosch.  Avoid B&D and Ryobi.  (Yes I know B&D and Dewalt are owned by same now).

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2020, 11:52:23 AM »
I'm torn on returning the impact driver since we'll not be needing it for any specific project now. We do need to go get a saw to cut the deck up into haul-away sized pieces.

If it were me, I would return it if you can get your money back. Harbor Freight cordless power tools are cheaply designed and priced. If you had gotten a better quality one, they do have some measure of speed control by how far you press the trigger and also have a lot more torque which would probably have been able to remove the screws that the HF model couldn't.

I do have a better one ordered, but thought I'd try the HF one just to see since it was in stock. The ordered one isn't coming in til after June 1st. And I can return the HF one - the husband and I decided this morning, so it's going back today. I know their reputation, but they have an excellent return policy and there's plenty of strong positive reviews for their tool lines for the casual homeowner DIY types. Figured it was worth a shot since there's a Harbor Freight literally 2 miles from my home.

I still have a covered section of deck that I can test the nicer one on if it ever gets in (and will keep if it works well), but since we're not going to try to save the exposed section now due to overall condition once we could really look under there, the HF tool did serve a purpose anyway.

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #40 on: May 26, 2020, 04:50:41 PM »
I second @Alternatepriorities' set suggestion. We started with one and just kept adding to it. We love all the batteries. And I do mean All The Batteries. We have about eight, with at least three chargers. It's awesome to be able to keep everything juiced up. There will probably be deals aplenty as Father's Day approaches.

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #41 on: May 26, 2020, 06:36:29 PM »
THis is the best thread title ever! Carry on - I hope you found a solution.

Frankies Girl

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #42 on: May 27, 2020, 12:23:33 AM »
Returned the HF impact driver. STILL waiting on the nicer one ordered from HD, which is going to be returned (or whatever, it's a store pickup). Cheap circular saw purchased to do teardown. I am pleased with it. It does what it needs to do, and I now have the leisure to wait for a great deal on a nicer bunch of tools that will include a decent cordless circular saw and impact driver (and hopefully a reciprocating saw/batteries), and have a nice cheap corded circular saw that can be used for crappy stuff.

I'm over a third of the way through cutting the deck up and it's neatly stacked on the curb for trash pickup in the morning. I confirmed they are supposed to pick up pressure treated wood as long as any nails/screws were removed or hammered in, and we went over everything carefully. We didn't put too much out, and we'll just work on it as time allows and place bits out each trash day until it's gone.

The deck under the porch roof is possibly iffy. The joist that has been exposed as we removed the rotting/termite deck section was DIRECTLY on the ground, no concrete/paver support whatsoever. And I could scrape the wood with my finger and it gave way and it is wet (rained around 14 hours earlier, but still). But no signs of termites/tunnels so they may not have made it that far, and exposing the area to air/sun may prevent further damage. The boards on top still look good tho, so I'll have to assess as we remove the rest of the bad deck.

The bad section looked like it used decent wood, but they did not use concrete pavers except on the perimeter. The others further in had nothing - just sitting on bare dirt. And they weren't even straight, and had sunk into the ground so deeply that they might as well not even been there.

BUT we are also going to go to the ReStore and see what we can see. Maybe we can luck into some nice pavers/stones.

Frankies Girl

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2020, 10:43:24 PM »
So update time!

In the spirit of the reason I originally posted, we have a new tool set! 6 piece that came with several batteries. It's a Ryobi and I'm very pleased.  I know it's not as well regarded as DeWalt/Milwaukee and the other nicer professional level sets, but it's a solid set, and there are enough good reviews out there that for the DIY level we needed, the set hit the sweet spot of reliable/strong enough/cheaper (got it on super sale for daddy day). And I am keeping the corded cheapy circular saw from Harbor Freight for rough cutting because it has been a real champ taking that stupid deck apart.


Bad deck is gone. Picked up by our lovely awesome trash company (who will take wood as long as it's had the nails/screws removed or covered over so they don't pose an injury hazard) and we broke up the deck into easy to lift/haul sections and put it out each trash day for a week and a half so as to not be total assholes. We are VERY lucky our guys will take heavy trash EVERY trash day.

Only thing they won't take was concrete/brick or similar as it will break their equipment, but I found a city recycling center that was FREE for residential dropoffs, and they really do recycle it by crushing brick/concrete to use for surface/roads/watershed areas. So dropped the 3 bench posts off and felt a huge sense of relief.

We happily are able to save the rest of the deck that was semi-protected from being under the porch roof. We used a car jack to get it up high enough to look under (again, sitting on the @#!#@ ground!) and other than some minor rot issues where the joists were in direct contact with the dirt, it's in excellent shape and they built it with extra struts/support and there were NO TERMITE ISSUES. We had the house area where the deck came in contact professional treated about 2 or so years ago, so maybe it saved it or maybe they were just satisfied with eating on the easy deck and were planning on moving on to this part when they finished it.

In any case, we decided to give it a try to keep it for the short term, and that required raising it to getting a minimum of 6 inches of clearance, removed all the leaves and build-up, put in thick concrete footers every 3 feet, and cut off the outside joist that was touching the bad deck and had lots of damage from being rained on/rotting. The remaining deck is SOLID, and it just cost us some aches and pains and about $10 in materials.

We're not planning on leaving it forever; we'll be adjusting it or removing and putting down poured concrete or pavers in a year or two. Or whatever, but this is a good compromise for now. We're actually pretty shocked at how well this worked out.

Next step is to get the big gun termiticide (the kind used by pros that does a slow kill/non-detectable so the take it back to the nest and lasts 5+ years) and we'll be treating ALL the deck soil ( I can access everything under the remaining deck as well as inspect the house's foundation now!) and doing a perimeter trench treatment around the house. We have examined everything carefully and the little jerks were ONLY in the bad deck, so we may be lucky enough to take them out of our yard/house area completely. We have neighbors on either side that have gobs of rotting wood all over their yards, so I am pretty sure that's where they came from. Sigh.

Then we're going to cover the bare dirt where bad deck was with some nice sod and move on to the next fire to be put out home project... cutting out the rotting porch posts and putting in real concrete pier support footers.

I'm kind of excited about this as we hired someone to do this back a dozen years or so, and they put them in exactly the same way - dug hole in ground, poured in a little concrete, set post into it, poured a bit more concrete, dirt covered up and touching post - so of course they rotted out again (and are likely super attractive to termites) so I did my research and know the real way is rebar/concrete form/sink an anchor footer that is then attached to the wood post. Already located/priced the stuff, so just have to finish the deck/termite junk. We don't have to worry about frost heave since we don't freeze, and the porch itself is low weight so this should be an easy/satisfying project.

Then it's onto gutters, replace porch roof, get a leaky shower fixed that is beyond our DIY skills... home ownership is just a series of spending/trying to keep things from falling apart. I think you have to be a bit of a masochist to think home ownership is a great idea. ;)
« Last Edit: June 15, 2020, 09:08:12 AM by Frankies Girl »

Dicey

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #44 on: June 15, 2020, 08:27:45 AM »
Glad to see this update! I've been thinking of you, because DH has been working on our front and back porches, which are big and are like covered decks. The deck material is Ipe, which is a complete pain in the ass. It's extremely hard, so it's difficult to work with. DH is using his driver and special extraction bits, but still the birs are breaking and the screws are snapping off. There is a high level of frustration happening here.

Our house is set in what we never realized was a sort of natural amphitheatre. The house across the street is slightly elevated and has not much yard other than their back deck, which faces our house. The woman who lives there is so rarely seen, we thought she might be agoraphobic. During this pandemic and ensuing Shelter In Place, she seems to have taken up permanent residence on the back deck. She talks loudly on the phone for hours on end or worse still, entertains friends we've never seen before - during a fucking quarantine! There is much drinking and endless rehashing of priviledged white people problems. These parties often start mid-morning and get louder as the day grinds on. No music, just endlessly loud talking and obvious boozing. Last week, I spent two days detailing my car in the driveway. They were so fucking obnoxious that I finally turned on the vacuum on and just left it running. (Don't worry, I bought the model I have because it's quiet.)  Mostly, it was white-noise relief for me. But DH has been putting in hours on both porches and especially the front steps. His driver is in steady use and it's pretty dang loud. I don't mind the noise*, but I admit, I do kind of hope the sound is traveling across the street.

*Somehow the sound of tools that are doing productive work doesn't bother me. Our next door neighbor is putting in a huge paver driveway, walkways and patios. He's been running a plate compactor for days, which sounds like a hovering helicopter. It doesn't bother me a bit, because he's creating something. But these ninnies violating the Shelter In Place orders, partying all damn day and endlessly whining about their FWP's are driving DH and me nuts.

During all this, I've been wondering how your project was progressing. I am glad to hear that you are pleased with the results.

Frankies Girl

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #45 on: June 15, 2020, 09:25:04 AM »
Glad to see this update! I've been thinking of you, because DH has been working on our front and back porches, which are big and are like covered decks. The deck material is Ipe, which is a complete pain in the ass. It's extremely hard, so it's difficult to work with. DH is using his driver and special extraction bits, but still the birs are breaking and the screws are snapping off. There is a high level of frustration happening here.

Our house is set in what we never realized was a sort of natural amphitheatre. The house across the street is slightly elevated and has not much yard other than their back deck, which faces our house. The woman who lives there is so rarely seen, we thought she might be agoraphobic. During this pandemic and ensuing Shelter In Place, she seems to have taken up permanent residence on the back deck. She talks loudly on the phone for hours on end or worse still, entertains friends we've never seen before - during a fucking quarantine! There is much drinking and endless rehashing of priviledged white people problems. These parties often start mid-morning and get louder as the day grinds on. No music, just endlessly loud talking and obvious boozing. Last week, I spent two days detailing my car in the driveway. They were so fucking obnoxious that I finally turned on the vacuum on and just left it running. (Don't worry, I bought the model I have because it's quiet.)  Mostly, it was white-noise relief for me. But DH has been putting in hours on both porches and especially the front steps. His driver is in steady use and it's pretty dang loud. I don't mind the noise*, but I admit, I do kind of hope the sound is traveling across the street.

*Somehow the sound of tools that are doing productive work doesn't bother me. Our next door neighbor is putting in a huge paver driveway, walkways and patios. He's been running a plate compactor for days, which sounds like a hovering helicopter. It doesn't bother me a bit, because he's creating something. But these ninnies violating the Shelter In Place orders, partying all damn day and endlessly whining about their FWP's are driving DH and me nuts.

During all this, I've been wondering how your project was progressing. I am glad to hear that you are pleased with the results.

@Dicey I am the same way! I am fine with general background noise of working like saws and mowers, but random chatter and loud dog barks (had a very bad person nearby that left their poor dog out all day/night and it was lonely and bored) used to drive me nuts. I would be super upset if the neighbors on my backyard were constantly out there being super loud.

I hope the crazy lady throwing the parties goes back to work soon! Or maybe she'll stay inside and party since it's warming up and there's construction noise? Ugh, she sounds just lovely and I'm reminded how lucky it is to like all your neighbors.

And it's comforting to me anyway to hear that someone as competent as your DH is getting frustrated with decks/screws/drivers. I think once the dumb things have weathered a bit of time, they become extremely difficult to work on and I have heard about Ipe - sounds like a real bear to deal with! I hope he tackles it without too much more frustration!

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #46 on: June 15, 2020, 09:28:44 AM »
I don't mind construction noise (as long as it's during a reasonable hour), but one sound I've come to *hate* is the drone of 2-stroke yard tools, particularly during the weekend, as every homeowner aroudn me seems to be cutting the grass and whacking weeds and whatnot.  Now that we have an electric lawn mower I think most everyone should get one, and/or all new lawn mowers ought to have much tighter noise restrictions.  There's seriosuly no need for ear-damaging level of noise just to have a well-kempt lawn

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #47 on: June 15, 2020, 09:49:15 AM »
I don't mind construction noise (as long as it's during a reasonable hour), but one sound I've come to *hate* is the drone of 2-stroke yard tools, particularly during the weekend, as every homeowner aroudn me seems to be cutting the grass and whacking weeds and whatnot.  Now that we have an electric lawn mower I think most everyone should get one, and/or all new lawn mowers ought to have much tighter noise restrictions.  There's seriosuly no need for ear-damaging level of noise just to have a well-kempt lawn

Yep, I absolutely loathe it as well. We do our part by using a reel mower and plus we aren't really obsessive over our lawn so we mow it infrequently to begin with. In the hottest parts of summer it's nice to be able to get up and mow at like 6am when it's still (relatively) cool without having to worry about bothering the neighbors.

Dicey

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #48 on: June 15, 2020, 11:03:34 AM »
100% agree. We do our part by having no lawn. Works great and saves on the water bill, but it's going to take forever to recoup the landscaping costs. Oh well, at least it looks good great. We do use a blower occasionally, but it's battery operated and reasonably quiet.

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Re: Eat a bag of decks: tools needed to stop getting screwed
« Reply #49 on: June 15, 2020, 11:06:04 AM »
100% agree. We do our part by having no lawn. Works great and saves on the water bill, but it's going to take forever to recoup the landscaping costs. Oh well, at least it looks good great. We do use a blower occasionally, but it's battery operated and reasonably quiet.

I don't understand our obsession with large grassy lawns.  They are great for small children (we have one) but even still, we're moving towards landscaping a large chunk of our property into edible gardens and native plants.  I wish more people would do the same.