Author Topic: E-Bike front wheel Hub Motor - is this as great/cheap/easy/AMAZING as it looks?!  (Read 1404 times)

Aardvark

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I recently moved to Boulder.
My car completely gave up on me this week. I want to see whether I can get away with not replacing it (plan to rent for weekend adventures).

I have been intimidated by the price/effort of a do-it-yourself Ebike conversion, but then I saw this:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Electric-Bicycle-Hub-Motor-Bike-Conversion-Kit-eBike-Front-48V-1000W-26/154344963
I realize that I need to purchase a battery separately, but this seems like an outrageously cheap and easy way to make an Ebike.

It's surely inferior to a mid-drive motor with a pedal assist sensor etc... But is all that really necessary?

Any insights would be much appreciated! There doesn't seem to be a page on this forum dedicated to Ebikes - I am surprised by that.

roomtempmayo

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Kuddos to you for wanting to do without a car.


I realize that I need to purchase a battery separately, but this seems like an outrageously cheap and easy way to make an Ebike.


A Bosch eBike battery is $800.  There might be much cheaper versions, but they also have a way of lighting on fire.  There's something of a floor on how cheaply it's possible to build a durable/reliable/safe eBike.

Everyone I know who has bodged together an eBike on the cheap moved on (either way from eBikes altogether or to a better one) within a year or two. 

If you're looking for a car replacement, I'd consider a quality eBike with the Bosch motor and battery, like the Trek Verve+ 2: https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/hybrid-bikes/electric-hybrid-bikes/verve/verve-2/p/28299/

Aardvark

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Thanks Caleb,

I am hoping to get two EBikes (one for me, and one for my wife), so $2.6k bike would be a bit too expensive for me. If I buy a ready made bike I found a few sub $2k option on a youtube video:
RadMission e-bike: https://bit.ly/RadMission​
Roadster V2 e-bike: http://bit.ly/Ride1Up_Roadster_V2​
Lectric XP e-bike: http://bit.ly/Lectric-XP​
Ecotric 500W e-bike: https://amzn.to/30bai5X​
RadRunner e-bike: http://bit.ly/RadRunner


RE kits: What about this option that comes with a battery for $345:
https://www.amazon.com/RanBB-Bicycle-Motor-Conversion-Electric/dp/B07XD1MYKW/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=JAXPETY+front+wheel+ebike&qid=1617938853&sr=8-4

It seems to me that these things are getting REALLY powerful, and I don't know whether I need anything better than the option in the above link.




BikeFanatic

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I have been into Ebikes since 2003, and I highly reccomend this company( EBIKES.CA or grin tech in Vancouver) to learn and to buy from they ship internationally and have tons of Ebike education on you tube and on their site. The owner Justin has been modifying and selling Ebikes for many years I think I first found him in 2008.

Ebikes.ca

ALso batteries are important, fragile and can die easily. You need a good quality battery. I recomend Ebikes.ca also cellman and ( EM3EV)  he makes great batteries another guy is ping battery, sells on Ebay.

I too am surprised there is not more discussion on Ebikes. I have been to a site endless sphere and they discuss everything ebikes but it was so male dominated as a woman I was not welcome in the young boys club. But alot of info is there ( and plenty of mis information).
Good luck and keep us posted

« Last Edit: May 02, 2021, 02:40:32 PM by BikeFanatic »

Roland of Gilead

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I was into e-bikes back when I had a tadpole trike.  It was hard on my knees going uphill so I put a 1000 watt hub motor on the rear wheel and suddenly I could do 30mph up a 15% grade :-)

I used hobby lipo cells because they were super lightweight.   A 12 pound battery pack could get me 40 mile range.

I have sold that bike but if I were doing it again today I would use the EGO 56V batteries you can buy at Home Depot for power tools.  It is the perfect voltage for the ~48V hub motors and the batteries come in large sizes.  You can even buy a EGO generator thingy that comes with batteries and provides 3000 watt surge/2000 watt continuous AC power, so you could swap from using them on your bike to using them to power a fridge/coffee maker while camping.

robartsd

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How do you expect to use the e-bike? How will this use be different than a non-assisted bike would be? What is your plan for winter transportation?

BlueMR2

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I do all my own bicycle (built one ground up from all components) and motorcycle maintenance, a fair amount of car maintenance, have an electronics background and these upgrades make me nervous...  I'd love to do one too, but I look at the parts, the bikes I have, and I can never get all my questions answered about component compatibility and fit and end up never ordering...  I just can't get past that queasy stomach feeling (of a project that's probably going to go sideways) I get looking at them.

robartsd

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I do all my own bicycle (built one ground up from all components) and motorcycle maintenance, a fair amount of car maintenance, have an electronics background and these upgrades make me nervous...  I'd love to do one too, but I look at the parts, the bikes I have, and I can never get all my questions answered about component compatibility and fit and end up never ordering...  I just can't get past that queasy stomach feeling (of a project that's probably going to go sideways) I get looking at them.
For complete wheel kits, there is not much compatibility to worry about - just that the wheel needs to fit the bike (wheel size and dropout size), the frame needs to take the torque, and the other components need to be mountable. If the kit doesn't include a battery, you might need to add connectors to wires for the battery and need to select a battery that can provide the needed voltage and amperage (for lithium chemistries, amperage will likely be sufficient for any decent capacity you select). If building from individually selected parts, you need to also be sure that your controller is compatible with the motor. The endless sphere forums can provide a lot of information (mostly for DIY overpowered e-bikes).

Artem_F

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we've been using the 36V, 250W front wheel kits for more than two years. As for me, it's more than enough for the majority of the situations. The engine is small and strong enough to assist you climbing the hills which are out of the question for regular bikers. Recently, I opened the gear box of one of the wheels (I broke the signal wire, but I was not sure whether it was a Hall sensor or a wire itself) and found the planetary gear in perfect order after a few thousand miles of usage.
BTW, you can buy a tunable controller with a screen and set the max current for your e-bike thus making it a bit more powerful when needed. 250W is just a rated power, I guess. The numbers tell me that when climbing the hill, the controller can pump about 700W of power and the motor does not overheat if you run it this way for a couple of minutes.
As for the batteries, I purchased high-rated Samsung 18650 cells in bulk and welded the 10s3p, 340 Wh packs myself. It's simpler than it sounds and instead of welding one can also solder the cells, but it takes more time and requires some practice. With a BMS charging board, the price of such a battery pack is about $90.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 01:17:21 PM by Artem_F »

Ecky

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I tend to prefer geared hub motors, but at that price it's hard to complain. I built a few ebikes using ebikeling's $130 kits a few years back, but it looks like those are all gone.

Batteryhookup.com is a good place to look for battery cells or packs at a steep discount.

Take this for example: https://batteryhookup.com/products/14-4v-6-6ah-95-04wh-li-ion-module-with-bms

24 of those packs in a 4x6 configuration would easily handle the peak loads from that controller/motor, and give 40Ah of capacity, or ~2KWh, for ~$170 plus shrink wrap and connectors. Even not pedaling, that pack would be good for a minimum of 60 miles, possibly approaching twice that if you keep your speeds down.

If you went with a lower current draw motor and controller, you could get away with a smaller pack size. The limiting factor is more often current draw than anything else.

Artem_F

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Ecky, thanks for the link, their prices are really attractive, but I never saw genuine Panasonic batteries cheaper than $3 even for bulk purchases at Aliexpress. How do they make profit, I wonder? Did you have any issues with these batteries?
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An update - OK, I see, how it works. They are selling NOS (= new, old stock) or salvaged batteries, which they get for next to nothing. This is a good deal, I believe, because they test and balance each battery. I wish I saw this link when I was building my battery packs :)
« Last Edit: April 23, 2021, 09:17:05 AM by Artem_F »

robartsd

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Ecky, thanks for the link, their prices are really attractive, but I never saw genuine Panasonic batteries cheaper than $3 even for bulk purchases at Aliexpress. How do they make profit, I wonder? Did you have any issues with these batteries?
===
An update - OK, I see, how it works. They are selling NOS (= new, old stock) or salvaged batteries, which they get for next to nothing. This is a good deal, I believe, because they test and balance each battery. I wish I saw this link when I was building my battery packs :)
I know that @Syonyk has direct experience in rebuilding e-bike battery packs. I wonder what he thinks of this source.

Weisass

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I understand the desire to save money, but if you really want to replace a car I think it’s worth investing in a quality mid drive motor from BAFANG, shimano (steps is nice) or Bosch.

robartsd

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I understand the desire to save money, but if you really want to replace a car I think it’s worth investing in a quality mid drive motor from BAFANG, shimano (steps is nice) or Bosch.
I agree that reliable transportation is important enough to spend more for quality. Not sure why that would eliminate all hub motors from consideration.

Syonyk

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I know that @Syonyk has direct experience in rebuilding e-bike battery packs. I wonder what he thinks of this source.

Splitting new old stock stuff and salvage cells?  Store it outside... not against a building?

I'm not a big fan of abusing lithium, and I really don't run in the "FREE POWER BATTERY!" circles or anywhere close to them out of respect for my blood pressure.  Those groups habitually and casually abuse lithium, put it in sketchy cases that are easy to short, and talk about how AMAZING each others builds are.  I don't even try to correct them anymore, because they've built a shell against anyone telling them they're wrong.  Even if you quote manufacturer datasheets at them.

IF the new old stock packs have never been fully discharged (I consider about 2.0V/cell a hard limit for "I'll attempt to charge it again," if I know how it got there, otherwise I won't put power to anything below 2.5V/cell), and are generally matched in terms of age and storage condition (temperature matters a lot for lithium wear), then it's probably safe enough to split them, reassemble them, etc.  At this point, some of my cells are pretty much new old stock (a few years old), but I also know that they've been stored, unused and not attached to anything, in identical conditions, so I've no worries about using them in projects.  And I check voltages before using them.  But if you don't know the history of the packs, you shouldn't be mixing and matching, even if you've done a snapshot of their current state.  It doesn't tell you how they're degrading, just where they are currently.  With a competent BMS on the pack, it's probably safe, but... eh.

I treat lithium with an awful lot more respect than most of the people doing videos, spot weld only, etc.  But, against my predictions from 5 years back, I'm not aware of a huge number of DIY Powerwall house fires.  And most of those people abuse the hell out of the batteries.

*shrug*  You get what you pay for.  I wouldn't put a cheap salvage pack near anyone or anything I cared about, but presumably the don't fail that often.

As for front wheel hub motors, they're fine on the flat, and they absolutely suck climbing any sort of hill.  Steering gets all sorts of weird and if it's slick and the front spins up (climbing a hill, more weight is on the rear wheel), you probably go down in a hurry.

I've not been doing much with ebikes lately, though.  Working from the property and living on a 55mph road with increasing traffic means on my increasingly rare trips into town, I'm more likely to take something that can do highway speed.  I'm just not comfortable doing 20mph on a rural two lane 55mph road.

eyesonthehorizon

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[very pretty bike]
I have no knowledge to contribute but this is the most aesthetically & conceptually pleasing device I have seen in some time.

Weisass

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I understand the desire to save money, but if you really want to replace a car I think it’s worth investing in a quality mid drive motor from BAFANG, shimano (steps is nice) or Bosch.
I agree that reliable transportation is important enough to spend more for quality. Not sure why that would eliminate all hub motors from consideration.

You are right, a hub motor can get the job done too. Just make sure it is well made, with a history of support from the company.

Artem_F

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I have no knowledge to contribute but this is the most aesthetically & conceptually pleasing device I have seen in some time.
Thanks :)
The original bike was made by a small company in Italy (we live in France) and it's on the heavy side, so climbing up the 100m hills in our region was out of the question. With the motor, it's not a problem at all, even with a DIY grocery box full of goods.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 10:48:55 AM by Artem_F »