Do you guys DIY your own electrical work or outsource?

[jeromedawg]

Hey all,

I've been running into a number of issues at our home regarding electrical. Some of it's just preferential stuff like oddly placed switch-controlled outlets or wanting to change some switches to smart switches. But there's also this weird open neutral condition that's affecting an entire circuit - it's really strange in that for a period of time everything worked and appeared normal. I noticed anytime we had construction or work done (where ppl were using jackhammers or anything that could cause vibration in the walls), this open neutral condition would pop up and everything on that circuit would go black... except if you plug the circuit tester in it shows "open neutral" - I opened all the plates to look at the neutral side and all of them *look* OK from a cursory standpoint. After seeing outlets and other things spark more than once while I or someone else was working on them is what's keeping me from digging deeper. I had an HVAC contractor checking out our old furnace and he triggered a HUGE spark while removing the capacitor which was still holding a significant charge. Back at our condo, I sparked a live wire that was on a circuit that I flipped the breaker on - I don't know what happened but somehow I got that outlet back in without shocking and killing myself. The worst was when I was just stupid, didn't flip the breaker, and grabbed a live socket that was sticking out of the wall that I was going to rewire. After that incident, I was much more hesitant to do any electrical work but I did so anyway at our condo and changed several switches and outlets even after that... I think part of it was that it felt a bit more manageable just because it was a smaller condo.

For whatever reason, I'm much more apprehensive about doing this kind of work in the current home we're in (which is a single-family home). It could also be that given the number of things I want to have changed or fixed, it's a bit overwhelming and intimidating and I don't want to end up literally killing myself with some mishap. We also want to get the Ring Security Cam/floodlight I bought over a year ago installed up in our driveway both for lighting and security... but other than that, I know there's at least one or two other mis-wired outlets (one reverse hot and possibly the other just has a loose neutral...) in our place as well as kitchen outlets that should really be changed to GFI.

At this point, would you guys recommend "buy once cry once" and having an electrician just take care of all or most of this in one fell-swoop (or maybe two depending on what needs to be done)?

[GuitarStv]

Maybe this is because of the engineering courses in electronics that I took 20 odd years ago . . . but most electrical work in houses is pretty darned simple.  I do all the electrical work in our house and have never had problems with anything that I've done.  It can be time consuming (most of the difficulty is in unscrewing and then screwing stuff back into the wall), but it's easy to do.

That said, we've had constant problems with the original wiring done in our house.  Wires that weren't properly screwed into the outlets and came loose (this was causing our open neutral problem), bizarre wiring path choices, improper wire nuts used to connect too many links, improper wire nuts used that corroded because they were non-compatible metals . . . the list goes on and on.  I have mapped all the electrical stuff in the house now and torn apart every light and outlet to check that it was connected as it was supposed to be at this point.  I've also run multiple other circuits (long story, but my guitar amps don't like to be on circuits with other electrical devices - it causes noise).

Electrical wiring demands respect, but should be safe to work on if you follow basic safety practices.  Get a non-contact voltage tester for like 20$ as insurance if you're forgetful of turning off breakers (it's also very helpful to have one of those regular 3 prong circuit testers).  You can also get electrically insulative gloves I suppose although I've never used them.  When in doubt, you double check the breaker and then then double check the outlet (or light) before you unscrew and touch anything.  Good practice is to keep one hand in your back pocket when touching *any* wire for the first time and take off any watches/rings or other conductive stuff (metal necklaces?) you're wearing before doing electrical work.  Work slowly and methodically.

[sonofsven]

Hire it out. Do the projects where the worst case scenario is you have to look at something ugly vs. the worst case scenario of burning your house down.

[lthenderson]

I'm much more apprehensive about doing this kind of work in the current home we're in (which is a single-family home).

it's a bit overwhelming and intimidating and I don't want to end up literally killing myself with some mishap.

At this point, would you guys recommend "buy once cry once" and having an electrician just take care of all or most of this in one fell-swoop (or maybe two depending on what needs to be done)?

Based on the above statements, I would recommend hiring it out just for the peace of mind.

I myself have done most of my own wiring projects but there has been a few times over the years when I've hired an electrician because I was out of my comfort zone or because it was new construction and in our state, only a licensed electrician can put in new construction electrical work.

[jeromedawg]

Part of me does want to try to DIY some of it... I just don't know how far to take it and at what point I should stop - the install of the Ring floodlight might be one example of where I don't want to take it (as it would involve getting on a ladder or stepping on a balcony that probably isn't intended to support much weight, drilling holes through stucco and drywall, and having to fish wires to tie into an existing circuit...)

So for example in the case of the reverse hot - that seems pretty straightforward. Make sure the breaker is shut-off for its circuit and, presumably, just change the hot and neutral wiring as it's likely screwed in on opposite ends.

But what about this open neutral issue where pretty much all of the outlets on this single circuit are showing "open neutral" (the circumstance around this was that things WERE working just fine before). Should I go ahead and shut the breaker off and then unscrew and inspect every outlet and the wiring on each? As I mentioned, per a cursory look, the wires appear to all be in the right places but I didn't dig any deeper and actually pull the outlets from the wall to really expose the wiring on each. I suppose I'm willing to do that. I have a voltage tester/pen (the beeping kind) as well as a couple 3-prong circuit testers. I also have a multimeter.

[jeromedawg]

Well, I said screw it and went to troubleshooting. Turns out there were a couple more outlets up in the loft upstairs that were also connected to this circuit... and behind one of the wall plates, I found this:



Uhh... that looks suspect. I put the circuit tester in and hit it with the voltage tester and it was going off - not sure if it was some weird phantom power or what. I decided to take zero chances and went back outside and flipped the service disconnect. Then came back and pulled the outlet out for a closer look:



The dimwit previous owner either tried DIYing or had a horrible handyman come in to do some crap work... the ground was completely disconnected. WTH!!!?!??! Both neutrals were burnt out and one charred. The house could have burnt down!!! So yea, this explains the open neutral... more like toasted neutral lol. SMH... what's scary is that, without realizing any of this, I had my guitar amps and gear all plugged into this outlet! Fortunately, behind a surge protector but still....!!!

Anyway, I'm relieved at that... and now a bit more confident. I think I'm gonna tackle the reverse hot/neutral that the idiot previous owner currently has in my kids bedroom. I removed the wall plate and confirmed that yep: white is on the right side and black is on the left side (and no, the outlet is not upside down)

[GuitarStv]

Wires that weren't properly screwed into the outlets and came loose (this was causing our open neutral problem)

Glad you found yours.  Ours were from the builder though, not a previous owner.  :P

Electrical work is not rocket science, I think you'll be surprised at how straight forward it is to find and fix problems.

[GilesMM]

There is no One Size Fits All answer for this.  Responses will range from always call professionals to “I rewired the space station”. 

I do my own up until I get stuck or don’t feel comfortable. Then I bring in a great guy who explains to me his trouble shooting and logic and teaches me new stuff while fixing tough problems.

Most people can manage power outlets and can lights. Most people don’t want to run new circuits or poke screw drivers into live circuit boxes.

Most of us make small mistakes that blow circuits, cause fires or ruin things from time to time. I know I have.

[jeromedawg]

Makes sense... I haven't done this in many years so part of it was just getting off my lazy butt and going for it. I would like to convert some of the full-hot switched outlets to half-hot if possible but I don't think the wiring is 3-wire romex. In that case am I just supposed to clip that middle tab on the hot side of the switched outlets I want half-hot?

I was considering having one switched outlet rewired to another one that makes more sense but I may just leave it for now, especially if I can make it half-hot.

Other than that, I'd like to add maybe one or two outlets in our upstairs hallway, then installing the security cam in the front (although, I'm almost inclined to throw a battery-operated one up there at this point...downside is that I'd have to change out the batteries once or twice a year). As far as these additions, I'm thinking hiring it out might be the better way to go.

The only thing I'm sort of unsure about is the weird master-slave light setup on one hallway light. I want that to be full two-way... I was previously looking into this but decided not to within the bounds of the old Zinsco panel. There was some weird phantom power being picked up with that too. Now that the panel has been replaced though, I can probably get back to troubleshooting that (btw: is this something where a wire tracing device might be able to help in the case that there are multiple different wires in the junction box? https://www.amazon.com/Electrical-Generator-Continuity-Automotive-Telephone/dp/B093JQJTP3)

[lutorm]

Maybe this is because of the engineering courses in electronics that I took 20 odd years ago . . . but most electrical work in houses is pretty darned simple.  I do all the electrical work in our house and have never had problems with anything that I've done.  It can be time consuming (most of the difficulty is in unscrewing and then screwing stuff back into the wall), but it's easy to do.

I agree, replacing like with like is mostly straightforward. For new installations, however, there are some not-obvious code that one should be aware of at least for the work to be up to code, if not unsafe. Rules for where outlets should be placed, the need for gfci/afci's in certain locations, how to protect wire from physical damage, conduit fill rules, etc, etc. Violating these won't make the wiring unsafe per se, but it will be obvious to an electrician looking at it that it's not up to code. Not that there aren't licensed people out there doing hack jobs...

Where I live it is illegal for anyone not licensed to touch electrical work (plumbing, too). Totally unreasonable, but it is what it is.

[FLBiker]

Most people can manage power outlets and can lights. Most people don’t want to run new circuits or poke screw drivers into live circuit boxes.

Yep, this is me.  I'll replace outlets, switches and lights.  I've done more when working with someone else (e.g. installing a junction box in the attic to add an outlet to enable us to move the washer to a far wall).  And I tend to be overly cautious -- I've been known to turn off the whole house to do some work, I wrap electrical tape around outlets, switches and nuts that I install, etc.  Probably overkill, but it gives me more confidence as an amateur.

[valsecito]

At our holiday home, the electrician did:
- the uplink to the electric service provider
- the connection to the earth
- the differential contactor and fuses in the central technical cabinet

I wired up the rest: the home automation with relays and sensors, the outlets, the lighting, ... The wiring is super simple star topology wiring. Not a lot can go wrong there if working carefully and methodically.

[Sibley]

Most people can manage power outlets and can lights. Most people don’t want to run new circuits or poke screw drivers into live circuit boxes.

Yep, this is me.  I'll replace outlets, switches and lights.  I've done more when working with someone else (e.g. installing a junction box in the attic to add an outlet to enable us to move the washer to a far wall).  And I tend to be overly cautious -- I've been known to turn off the whole house to do some work, I wrap electrical tape around outlets, switches and nuts that I install, etc.  Probably overkill, but it gives me more confidence as an amateur.

The professional electricians I've worked with wrap electrical tape around outlets, switches and nuts, so I think that's just best practice.

[Fru-Gal]

PTF

My dad did all this own electrical wiring. I had an electricity kit as a kid. However I have a couple rooms of knob and tube to replace in our century-old home. When we had our bedroom redone many years ago I was amazed at how many outlets they put in. I thought for sure that was overkill…. Nope, that was before phones/tablets everywhere.

I have a quote from an electrician I trust so I may just go with that. When I have messed with stuff I turn off the circuit breaker for the whole house.

[CowboyAndIndian]

I do my own electrical.

But, I am an electronics engineer and am very comfortable with electrical. I also have spent a lot of time in the University of YouTube learning from electricians what is correct and what is wrong. YMMV.

If you are not comfortable, take the hit and get a good professional to fix it. Big sparks, burnt outlet etc., are major flags that your electrical system has issues. Keep your family safe from a fire by getting it looked at ASAP.

[NaN]

Doing your own electrical inspection is completely DIY. Actually, I find it hard to hire anyone to take on the attention needed to find stuff like this. As you said, at first glance "things looked OK". That's probably what an electrician would say, too.

[Fru-Gal]

Because of this thread I went looking for YouTube videos on DIY replacement of knob and tube wiring and discovered there’s such a thing as a GFCI breaker that allows you to install a non-GFCI outlet (say, one with USB ports) where you would normally have a GFI outlet. Maybe this could be useful to me since some of my kitchen outlets have been upgraded but others not.

[risky4me]

I have worked in the electrical field for 30 years, but I am not a licensed electrician. A skilled, conscientious, licensed, professional will have more experience that can actually save you money and provide a better outcome. Any experienced professional, I don't care if you're talking painting, drywall, auto mechanic, plumbing-experience matters. That said, I do a lot of this type of work, but I have also wasted a lot of time chasing something that someone with experience would identify much faster.
Unfortunately, most of the work I end up doing do myself is too piddly for a pro or I can't find anyone to do the work. But if a skilled person is available, I consider the skill and experience worth the money.


 

[ChickenStash]

Because of this thread I went looking for YouTube videos on DIY replacement of knob and tube wiring and discovered there’s such a thing as a GFCI breaker that allows you to install a non-GFCI outlet (say, one with USB ports) where you would normally have a GFI outlet. Maybe this could be useful to me since some of my kitchen outlets have been upgraded but others not.

Just a note for anyone that might not be familiar, it's not necessary for every outlet to be a GFCI. Only the first outlet in the chain needs to be GFCI and all the subsequent "load side" outlets are protected by the first, assuming it's wired correctly. If there's any question, a cheap outlet tester with a GFCI button will prove if an outlet is protected or not without digging into the wiring.

[sisto]

I've been doing my own for years now. Even as a child I replaced our dining room light. Turned off the wrong breaker and shocked myself, but it was a good learning experience. LOL Later in life someone taught me something to remember when doing outlets and swtiches. Black to brass will save your ass. Thought that was pretty funny and added to it. Black to brass will save your ass, and black to chrome will burn your home. This motto has stuck with me over the years.

[GuitarStv]

I have worked in the electrical field for 30 years, but I am not a licensed electrician. A skilled, conscientious, licensed, professional will have more experience that can actually save you money and provide a better outcome. Any experienced professional, I don't care if you're talking painting, drywall, auto mechanic, plumbing-experience matters. That said, I do a lot of this type of work, but I have also wasted a lot of time chasing something that someone with experience would identify much faster.
Unfortunately, most of the work I end up doing do myself is too piddly for a pro or I can't find anyone to do the work. But if a skilled person is available, I consider the skill and experience worth the money.

Generally I agree with you . . . but the trick is finding the right person.  I've seen a fair amount of terrible work done by unskilled, unconscientious, licensed professionals with lots of experience.  :P

[CowboyAndIndian]

Black to brass will save your ass, and black to chrome will burn your home.

Good one

[NaN]

I have worked in the electrical field for 30 years, but I am not a licensed electrician. A skilled, conscientious, licensed, professional will have more experience that can actually save you money and provide a better outcome. Any experienced professional, I don't care if you're talking painting, drywall, auto mechanic, plumbing-experience matters. That said, I do a lot of this type of work, but I have also wasted a lot of time chasing something that someone with experience would identify much faster.
Unfortunately, most of the work I end up doing do myself is too piddly for a pro or I can't find anyone to do the work. But if a skilled person is available, I consider the skill and experience worth the money.

Generally I agree with you . . . but the trick is finding the right person.  I've seen a fair amount of terrible work done by unskilled, unconscientious, licensed professionals with lots of experience.  :P

Absolutely. The good ones are either working industrial construction, or so booked with major renos, new builds, or other big projects that they don't have any time in the next year to see you. In my area at least, the skilled ones couldn't care less with helping someone understand their home better, and actually seem to actively over-price these jobs to avoid doing them. Can't blame them. Steady, good big jobs are better than a basket of small jobs.

[Fru-Gal]

I successfully installed a dusk-to-dawn outdoor light! That in itself is unexciting. What is slightly more exciting is that I managed to rip out the ground wire from the fixture when I was trying to build a little frame for it to sit flush against. So I had to take down the lamp and completely disassemble it, find the little ring around the base of the lightbulb socket where the wire was originally crimped, reattach that (I knotted it around the crimp thingy since I couldn’t figure out how to re-crimp it and didn’t have much space to work with). Reinstalled the lamp and tested it and … it did not work. Previously, I had been able to test the light by covering the sensor with my hand. I was thinking tomorrow I’d go rewire it to bypass the photocell. However…. At nighttime I went outside and it’s working!

[Trying2bFrugal]

I changed one light fixture to 4 recessed lights. Added a chandelier. I would say they sounded seriously simple on youtube videos. But crawling in the tight attic space, nailing the wires, running up and down on/off breaker would want me to call the electrician. Then the simple incandescent dimmer switches to led dimmable switches. These saved me bunch of money.

But in the new house, i may need to run a 20a circuit and couple lights outside which i am leaning towards calling an electrician.
Basement, i am going to do all myself but would get electrician do the panel work. Anything simple wiring i am going to do anything if the failure on diy going to cost me the house, would definitely call the pro.