Do cities generally disallow drilling of your own well?

[jnw]

The water bill is horrific these days.  Would be nice if we could drill our own well.    The trash portion of the bill is only like $18 but the bill is regularly just over $100 per month and it's just two people living here.  We only use about 3500 gallons per month on average.   We use the same amount of water as we always have since 2013, yet the average bill went from $72 to over $100.

UPDATE (3/13/22): I decided the well idea wasn't a great one.. just gonna use city water.  I was just desperate because water bill is crazy here.  Thread discussion has mostly changed to: how I can conserve water usage.

[SwordGuy]

First of all, national, state, county and city regulations will apply, plus possibly a water district.    So you just have to check out the rules in your area.

A septic system requires a suitable amount of land.   (No idea how much exactly, but more than a townhouse or condo would usually have.    That means you might need to stay on city sewer even if the rules would otherwise allow it.

Wells have to be a safe distance from sewer lines.  Otherwise, if the sewer line starts to leak, the water from the nearby wells could make those drinking it sick or kill them.   Again, rules will vary by locality.   Our area was annexed into the city and they are adding city water and sewer lines.  Existing wells and septic tanks are still allowed except for this proviso.   We will be losing one of our wells within a few months for this reason.   

[uniwelder]

Best bang for your buck would be to conserve water. 3,500 gallons per month is a lot for two people. My wife and I use about 1/3 of that. Low flow shower heads, toilets, and washer.

As Swordguy mentioned, you’d have to figure out whether a well is allowed. That would be several thousand dollars upfront cost plus maintenance.

If a good chunk of water usage is watering plants, hook up a tank for rainwater catchment. We hooked up a 250 gallon tote container at our old house. Fortunately, the house was uphill from the garden, so there was good pressure to spray from a hose. Still, you don’t need much to set up a drip line.

[jnw]

Best bang for your buck would be to conserve water. 3,500 gallons per month is a lot for two people. My wife and I use about 1/3 of that. Low flow shower heads, toilets, and washer.

As Swordguy mentioned, you’d have to figure out whether a well is allowed. That would be several thousand dollars upfront cost plus maintenance.

If a good chunk of water usage is watering plants, hook up a tank for rainwater catchment. We hooked up a 250 gallon tote container at our old house. Fortunately, the house was uphill from the garden, so there was good pressure to spray from a hose. Still, you don’t need much to set up a drip line.

We need to get the water pressure to the house turned down.  It's a bit hight at around 120.  Want about 80 or 90 I guess.   We don't have low flow shower head.  Our washer is top loader whirlpool.. not gonna spend $1000 for an efficient front loader washer.. paid $125 for this used whirlpool which we know how to service ourselves.   My guy likes taking long daily hot showers like 15 min long it seems.. makes him feel better.  I take maybe two showers per week about 5 mins long.   We don't do that much laundry.. I really don't even know how we use 3500 gallons per month to be honest.

Maybe if I get a low flow shower head that will help a lot.  I think that's where a lot of the water is going because he showers every day and for long periods.

[jnw]

From march to may we use about 15 gallons a day of water for our garden.  From June to August we use about 30 gallons per day.   160 square feet of 15" raised beds.  Mulch helps.  I don't have rain barrel and dont' relaly know how healthy that'd be coming from roof.

[uniwelder]

From march to may we use about 15 gallons a day of water for our garden.  From June to August we use about 30 gallons per day.   160 square feet of 15" raised beds.  Mulch helps.  I don't have rain barrel and dont' relaly know how healthy that'd be coming from roof.

Roof runoff is great for plants-- no chlorine.  You'd need to filter out leaves from the storage tank and keep it out of the sunlight.  Contamination from asphalt shingles is negligible--- the water is not in contact for very long during a rain.  There have been studies regarding contamination levels from asphalt, metal, wood shingle roofs. 

[uniwelder]

Best bang for your buck would be to conserve water. 3,500 gallons per month is a lot for two people. My wife and I use about 1/3 of that. Low flow shower heads, toilets, and washer.

As Swordguy mentioned, you’d have to figure out whether a well is allowed. That would be several thousand dollars upfront cost plus maintenance.

If a good chunk of water usage is watering plants, hook up a tank for rainwater catchment. We hooked up a 250 gallon tote container at our old house. Fortunately, the house was uphill from the garden, so there was good pressure to spray from a hose. Still, you don’t need much to set up a drip line.

We need to get the water pressure to the house turned down.  It's a bit hight at around 120.  Want about 80 or 90 I guess.   We don't have low flow shower head.  Our washer is top loader whirlpool.. not gonna spend $1000 for an efficient front loader washer.. paid $125 for this used whirlpool which we know how to service ourselves.   My guy likes taking long daily hot showers like 15 min long it seems.. makes him feel better.  I take maybe two showers per week about 5 mins long.   We don't do that much laundry.. I really don't even know how we use 3500 gallons per month to be honest.

Maybe if I get a low flow shower head that will help a lot.  I think that's where a lot of the water is going because he showers every day and for long periods.

Definitely get a pressure regulator.  120 psi is very high.  I don't think you need anything over 60 psi.  My system is at 40 psi. 

This is the shower head I use---- https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0089CGG9K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1  It gives a nice full spray

[BudgetSlasher]

Whether it is allowed varies greatly, I do not think there is a rule of thumb for this.

Do you have water and a private septic tank? If not it probably does not make sense.

When we were last on city water the water itself was cheap, it was the municipal sewage fees that made up the bulk of the bill. We have a well and septic in our current house, but I am not sure it would make sense to do to reduce costs. Around here a well costs ~3.5k and the last owners of our house had to replace the septic field (but not tank), to sell the house at a price of ~10k. A 1,000 gallon septic tank costs ~1.7k (not including installation costs). That adds up to something like 12 years of of $100/month bills before you factor in the ongoing costs of water filters/softening salt, septic treatments, any on going water test (recommended every so often) pumping the tank every ~5 yrs, and the albeit small amount of electricity. On and if anything breaks you are on the hook for repair costs. You would have to run the math based on your financial situation to see if it makes sense.

If instead of having a professional install it you meant doing all the labor yourself, I would think the scale would slide to no. I doubt a city wants every john-q-public piercing the aquifer and spreading fecal bacteria containing water underground. But YMMV

You might want to consider what it does to you home's value. Do buyers in the city really want a well and/or septic system? Or would that be a turn off?

There are three things I would recommend you look into; two of which have already been discussed.

• Turn down your water pressure. Forget for a moment that this could reduce water use rates. 120 PSI is very high, you want to cap that is the 60 to 80 max range, higher than that and you are adding extra wear and tear on appliance valves and increasing the risk that a old supply hose will fail.
• Get water saving fixtures. This isn't like the early days of water savers, there are some really nice one. The max allowed is ~2.5GPM for showers. If you want to see how much you would save in the shower take a bucket with a know volume and see how long it takes to fill then compare that to a water saver. As an example pre-low flow (~1992) google says showers were 5-8 GPM so you could be saving [(5-2.5 gallons per minute)*15 minutes *30 days = 1125 gallons] a month on the 15 minute showers. As a side benefit you will save water heating costs too.
• Finally, if your water bill includes sewage fees, reach out to your water company and see if they will install a second meter for irrigation purposes. When my parents had their fancy-pant sprinkler system put in they added a second water meter without sewage fees. You are using 450 to 900 gallons a month on the gardens. There is no need to pay sewage on that if it is cost effective to do otherwise. I would also echo the suggestion of rainwater collection for gardening or perhaps drip irrigation to reduce water use.

TLDR version: Switching off city water and sewer is going to be expensive and probably a money loser over the long run. First go after the low hanging fruit for reducing water consumption and costs.

[Sibley]

We need to get the water pressure to the house turned down.  It's a bit hight at around 120.  Want about 80 or 90 I guess.   We don't have low flow shower head.  Our washer is top loader whirlpool.. not gonna spend $1000 for an efficient front loader washer.. paid $125 for this used whirlpool which we know how to service ourselves.   My guy likes taking long daily hot showers like 15 min long it seems.. makes him feel better.  I take maybe two showers per week about 5 mins long.   We don't do that much laundry.. I really don't even know how we use 3500 gallons per month to be honest.

Maybe if I get a low flow shower head that will help a lot.  I think that's where a lot of the water is going because he showers every day and for long periods.

1. Replace showerhead immediately with a low flow. Like, go to the store today.
2. Only run full loads in the washer/dishwasher. No partial loads.
3. Check for leaks. Toilet running, faucet drips, etc. Food coloring in the toilet tank will tell you if the flapper is bad.

[Weathering]

Watch the water meter. Write down the numbers from the meter on several occasions. I check to make sure no water is leaking by watching the water meter when I know no water is being used.

Also check the sewer portion of your water bill. Our sewer bill is $45/month so it doesn’t take much water usage to get a bill over $100/month. Our sewer bill is determined by measuring our water usage in the winter for two months. I always try to conserve extra water during those two months (I’m not trying to cheat the system, but only trying to make sure we aren’t sing outside water (irrigation or hose water) during the months they estimate our sewer usage).

[jnw]

Thanks ya'll for the tips.  I just ordered the shower head mentioned above and also a stainless steel cut off valve for behind the shower head.  So we can like do a pre-rinse, then turn off water and lather up good, then do a rinse.  Turn off and shampoo hair.. then back on and rinse and so forth. Good way to save water.  Getting it down to .5gpm from 2.5gpm will be great .. and probably really help with water bill.

[sonofsven]

If you really want an answer to the well drilling question you should call well drillers in your area and ask them. Beware they might start laughing when you tell them you want to drill a well to save money ;-)
I've been doing ts little research on home water collection. I've been saving garden water for years but it's more an emergency measure as I generally don't exceed the minimum billed amount per month and I'm on septic so no sewer billing for eater volume, so I don't save money by saving water.
Saving water off your roof into tanks and then filtering depending on use is very doable, but it's only really done from what I can see in desert climates where water is scarce. In areas of abundance like where I live (80-120 inches per year) it's practically unheard of, instead we rely on rickety old water districts and pay $50+ per month, or drill wells.
We really take water for granted when you consider how much is spent drilling for, collecting, and distributing clean drinking water only to literally flush it down the toilet, only to pay again to treat it.

[Fishindude]

Most municipalities do not allow you to drill a well.   

We live out in the boonies so municipal water is not an option.  Adding on to our home so just recently had to take the old well out of service and drill a new one, got good water only 76' deep.
Was able to reuse the submersible pump, and got the whole works done for about $6k.   Feel very fortunate to live in an area where good water is plentiful and pretty easy to access.

[uniwelder]

Thanks ya'll for the tips.  I just ordered the shower head mentioned above and also a stainless steel cut off valve for behind the shower head.  So we can like do a pre-rinse, then turn off water and lather up good, then do a rinse.  Turn off and shampoo hair.. then back on and rinse and so forth. Good way to save water.  Getting it down to .5gpm from 2.5gpm will be great .. and probably really help with water bill.

Please update when you install the new shower head.  I don't think you'll get it to 0.5 gpm and be happy, but 1.0 gpm is more realistic, so probably at least half the current amount.  I'm also curious what you think of the spray from the shower head in general.

It would be interesting to measure how much water you (or your boyfriend more specifically) use in a typical shower with the old head, and how much is used with the new setup.  Time him over a few days from water on to water off, and hand him a bucket mid-shower to fill for one minute, then pour (several fill and dumps) into a graduated mason jar or large measuring cup or whatever, to figure out gallons per minute. 

[jnw]

Thanks ya'll for the tips.  I just ordered the shower head mentioned above and also a stainless steel cut off valve for behind the shower head.  So we can like do a pre-rinse, then turn off water and lather up good, then do a rinse.  Turn off and shampoo hair.. then back on and rinse and so forth. Good way to save water.  Getting it down to .5gpm from 2.5gpm will be great .. and probably really help with water bill.

Please update when you install the new shower head.  I don't think you'll get it to 0.5 gpm and be happy, but 1.0 gpm is more realistic, so probably at least half the current amount.  I'm also curious what you think of the spray from the shower head in general.

It would be interesting to measure how much water you (or your boyfriend more specifically) use in a typical shower with the old head, and how much is used with the new setup.  Time him over a few days from water on to water off, and hand him a bucket mid-shower to fill for one minute, then pour (several fill and dumps) into a graduated mason jar or large measuring cup or whatever, to figure out gallons per minute.

Yeah I plan on doing that.  Take a 5 gallon bucket and hold it up to the old shower head and time it.  Then do the same with new head.  Also time each of us in showers.  Also time us when using the shut off valve.  Like I can turn the water off while I am lathering body or working the hair.

[jnw]

So I just did it. Held up the 5 gallon bucket to the shower head, full blast.  It took 3 minutes and 25 seconds to fill up.  Comes out to 1.47 gallons per minute. So I guess I already had a low flow head.

1.5 gpm seems like a very strong flow.  Seems like a 1 gpm shower head would be just fine if it exists.  Maybe we can use the shut off valve I bought for the shower head to restrict the flow down.   I know we'll be turning off the water while lathering etc.

I just have no clue how we use 4500 gallons of water each month.  He showers every day I shower like twice per week.   I am totally confused.  We've tested the meter out front.. turned everything off inside the house and no water moves through the meter.

We have an old dishwasher (probably from the 90's?), maybe it's 15 to 20 gallons per load i am not sure. We do a load per day.  We have an older whirlpool toploader which we like since it cost us $125 and JT knows how to fix it if it breaks down.   We do an extra rinse, because we don't like soap on skin despite using free and clear.. perhaps we should turn off extra rinse I am not sure.   No clue how we use so much water.  We don't ever wash car here either.

We have a water conserving toilet as well. like 1 gallon per flush compared to 3 gallosn per flush we had before.  This initially saved on the water bill but within the past couple years the water company ramped up the cost of water.  Used to be 1 cent per gallon and now it's 1.5.

I wonder if there is something wrong with the meter, perhaps it's defective reporting more usage than is really going through it.

[jnw]

If he showers every day for 15 mins.. that 15 mins x 1.5 gpm = 22.5 gallons per day for his shower.  675 gallons per month for his shower.   I shower like 10 mins twice per week so 20 * 1.5 * 4.3 = 129 gallons of water for me for my showers.  So the showers should be 804 gallons for showers.

Say we each use flush the toilet 4 times per day.. 8 flushes per day or 8 gallons per day.  8 * 30 = 240 gallons per month for toilet.

So now we are up to 1050 gallons per month for shower and toilet.

I dont' leave the kitchen sink running.  Say the dishwasher is 15 gallons per load and we do 1 per day that's 15 * 30 = 450 gallons.

So now up to 1500 gallons for shower, toilet and dishwashing machine.

We don't leave the bathroom sink runnign when brushing.  And wash hands very quickly under the water.

So the washing machine uses 3000 gallons per month at less than 1 load per day? I seriously doubt that.   Maybe it is the problem.   How many gallosn is a full load in an an older whirlpool toploader?  Remember we do the extra rinse cycle too.  Say it's 20 gallosn per fill. filled three times per load.. that's 60 gallons of water?   60 * 30 = 1800 gallons.   Maybe we should invest in an water efficient used washing machine which is easily serviceable by JT.  (But I think we do a load of laundry mabye every other day actually, at most.. I just can't figure this out.)

[jnw]

Wow I just read:

"Conventional top load washers roughly use 20-22 gallons per fill when set on large load. A normal load will use 40-44 gallons of water. If the user chooses extra rinse, it will add 20-22 gallons. "

So we are using like 60 gallons per load of laundry.   At 60 gallons per load at 1.5 cents per gallon for water+sewage.. that's like 90 cents per load in water alone.

So what washing machine should we buy?  Is it possible to buy water efficient machine  at say around 13 gallons per load, which doesn't irritate our sensitive skin (using free and clear.. we switched from regular detergent becasuse were itching from it.. also explains why we do extra rinse).

Seems like the washing machine would pay for itself in no time, even a brand new one, with the water savings alone.   Would be nice if we could get a used one for like $250-300 though instead of spending $750.

[jnw]

Honestly we do about 3 loads per week at most.  I am gonna have to check the meter.  Since I know the flow rate of the shower now. I can run it X minutes and observe the meter.  See if the meter is faulty.

[BudgetSlasher]

I cannot speak directly to highly sensitive skin and front loads. That being said, I know good number of people with sensitive skin (things like cannot wear dry cleaned clothes or have to use unscented perfume) and they all have front loaders and none of them complain. I do not know if they double rinse or not. They have a bunch of different brands/models and the only complaints I hear are the general washing machine one.


YMMV.

Edit: I was pondering this a bit more and I wanted add a couple things.

First, I did a little googling and there appears to be a pretty agreed upon hierarchy of water using devices; first is the toilet, then is the shower, then faucets, then washing machine ... there is some shifting as you go lower, but the first 3 or 4 are pretty consistent. You've already addressed the shower and are discussing the washing machine. I would suggest you look at toilets and faucets as a potential for upgrading to low flow/volume as well.

Second, those lists also have leaks surprisingly high for the "average" home. While not stated, I suspect this is because if a home has an undetected leak it can really bring up the average. While nothing you have makes me think you have a leak, you could do two tests. One shut everything off in the house (make sure you get any automatic things like ice makers) and check the water meter a few times over the course of many hours to see if it budges. If if does and you have a whole house shut off try turning that off and repeating. (if the meter budges with the house in the off position you may have a leak in the pipe between the house and the meter, if it only budges with devices in the house off you may have a leak inside the house).

Third, I just looked up the current water and sewer rates for the last place I had both ... a 3500 gallon bill would come out roughly to $15 for water and $45 for sewage. If that ratio hold for you, 3/4s of you bill is sewage. Based on what you have said it looks like ~10% of your yearly water use is your garden, which means ~7.5% of your water bill is sewage costs for water that does not go into the sewer system.  As encouraged, I would look at ways to reduce that cost.

[SailingOnASmallSailboat]

on where to buy a used machine - check the usual suspects. Facebook Marketplace, Craigslist. There used to be a scratch and Dent Sears outlet but not sure if those still exist. I know others have mentioned finding good deals lots of places. Particularly if you are handy and can fix things, you'll pick up appliances that other people are disinclined to fix but don't cost that much to do so.

I would also encourage you to really look at the washing you're doing. We do a load a week for 2 of us; when the kids were home (so a family of 4), we averaged 2-3 loads a week. Clothes really don't need to be washed every day. Our sheets are washed every 2 weeks (we shower at night, before getting into bed, so we are sleeping "clean"), as are our towels. The only time I've ever done the extra rinse cycle was when my kids were babies. You've asked in other threads about the amount of detergent, so I wonder if you've been using too much of that and using the extra rinse cycle to get it out.

[Sibley]

I would be looking at possible leaks. When you're not using any water at all, note the water meter reading then come back a few hours later and check it again. If it changed, you've got a leak.

[GuitarStv]

We need to get the water pressure to the house turned down.  It's a bit hight at around 120.  Want about 80 or 90 I guess.

Do you have a valve in the basement where the water enters your home?  If so, just partially close it.  This limits the amount of water flow in your home and will reduce the water used for most tasks.  It's like installing a restrictor on everything in the home.

[jnw]

I would be looking at possible leaks. When you're not using any water at all, note the water meter reading then come back a few hours later and check it again. If it changed, you've got a leak.

Yeah I mentioned above that we did this, we even had water guy come out years ago because we thought it was excessive.  We turned off everythign in the house. Both the water company guy and myself looked at the meter and it didn't move at all.

But now that I know the flow rate of the shower head, I can time it for X minutes for a certain cubic footage and compare to the meter outside. Now that I know how to read the meter since I saw the water guy do it.

[jnw]

We need to get the water pressure to the house turned down.  It's a bit hight at around 120.  Want about 80 or 90 I guess.

Do you have a valve in the basement where the water enters your home?  If so, just partially close it.  This limits the amount of water flow in your home and will reduce the water used for most tasks.  It's like installing a restrictor on everything in the home.

Don't have a basement but I know the water pressure is too high in this home at 120.  I need to have someone come out and adjust the pressure down to like 80.

[Telecaster]

A good way to measure water flow is with a flow rate bag:

https://www.conservationmart.com/p-904-water-flow-rate-bag.aspx

Cheap, fast, and easy.

Very likely your toilet has the gallons per flush written on it somewhere.  You can reduce the volume by adjusting the float.   

[jnw]

A good way to measure water flow is with a flow rate bag:

https://www.conservationmart.com/p-904-water-flow-rate-bag.aspx

Cheap, fast, and easy.

Very likely your toilet has the gallons per flush written on it somewhere.  You can reduce the volume by adjusting the float.

I just don't think the toilet is the big water usage items here.  It's 22 gallon per day for JT daily shower and 12-15 gallons per day for old dishwasher.  The worst is the 60 gallons per load of laundry which we do about 3 times per week.

We are going to turn off extra rinse to reduce the washing down to 40 gallons per load that will save us about $5 per month; we figure we might not need the extra rinse now since we are using free and clear as well as half a cap of it now instead of a full cap.

I figure the toilet is only about 8 gallons per day between the both of us.

I need  a replacement dishwasher.. somethign that does dishes with 3.2 gallons or so.  And I need a replacement washer.. probably the high efficiency top loading impeller type that does a load with 12 gallons instead of 40.  Hopefully we can use the free and clear this HE toploader.. need to use special HE detergent in these machines, but I need to find out the cost of these specialized detergents beforehand.

[uniwelder]

We need to get the water pressure to the house turned down.  It's a bit hight at around 120.  Want about 80 or 90 I guess.

Do you have a valve in the basement where the water enters your home?  If so, just partially close it.  This limits the amount of water flow in your home and will reduce the water used for most tasks.  It's like installing a restrictor on everything in the home.

Don't have a basement but I know the water pressure is too high in this home at 120.  I need to have someone come out and adjust the pressure down to like 80.

I'd be careful throttling a valve.  I ended up doing that for my well pump, but took some precautions.  It ends up my valve is now only 2% open--- a very fine line between that and completely shut, providing something like a 60 psi restriction.  Supposedly throttling with a ball valve is not recommended as it will quickly ruin the seal.  Throttling the valve is also not going to change the pressure in the lines when everything is static, which as mentioned earlier in this thread is not good for the appliances/piping/etc.  A pressure regulator is the way to go.

My well pump is almost 300 feet deep, but I have water at 30, so even though its sized for high pressure, it doesn't need it, and allowing it to operate like that puts the pump out of the recommended head/flow range and causes short cycling.  I put in a globe valve (and a spin out sediment filter beforehand) which is recommended for throttling, and kept closing it off until the flow rate went from 14 gpm to 6.  It took a while to get there--- 4 7/8 turns out of 5.  I checked a couple of times afterward to make its still at the correct range and removed the handle so it can't be accidentally rotated.  According to the pump curve, this took me from about 10 psi to something like 70 psi.

[BudgetSlasher]

A good way to measure water flow is with a flow rate bag:

https://www.conservationmart.com/p-904-water-flow-rate-bag.aspx

Cheap, fast, and easy.

Very likely your toilet has the gallons per flush written on it somewhere.  You can reduce the volume by adjusting the float.

I just don't think the toilet is the big water usage items here.  It's 22 gallon per day for JT daily shower and 12-15 gallons per day for old dishwasher.  The worst is the 60 gallons per load of laundry which we do about 3 times per week.

We are going to turn off extra rinse to reduce the washing down to 40 gallons per load that will save us about $5 per month; we figure we might not need the extra rinse now since we are using free and clear as well as half a cap of it now instead of a full cap.

I figure the toilet is only about 8 gallons per day between the both of us.

I need  a replacement dishwasher.. somethign that does dishes with 3.2 gallons or so.  And I need a replacement washer.. probably the high efficiency top loading impeller type that does a load with 12 gallons instead of 40.  Hopefully we can use the free and clear this HE toploader.. need to use special HE detergent in these machines, but I need to find out the cost of these specialized detergents beforehand.

I am sorry if this has already been addressed, but I am getting a little confused and I am probably alone in this. Do you happen to have numbers for the flow rates/uses of your fixtures?

I made an (seemingly incorrect) assumption that you had an older home with fixtures that had flow rates in excess of the current standards (2.5 GPM for shower heads, 1.6 GPF for toilets, and 2.2 GPM @ 60 PSI for faucets). I partially made this assumption based on my understanding that you did not have a low flow shower head, but as I understand what you just said 22 gallons of water is being used for a 15 minute shower, which at 1.5 GPM is well below the standards; I took, and I think many people do as well, low flow to mean anything below the standard of 2.5 GPM. On a similar track, your estimate of 8 gallons a day on a toilet seems be 5 flushes of a modern standard 1.6 gallon toilet.

If you already have fixtures that meet modern standard, most of the low hanging fruit has been covered. For examples you might be able to drop a toilet from 1.6 GPF to 1.28 GPF and even cutting a shower head below 2.5 GPM are much smaller savings from a a pre-flow rate standards to a modern standard.

If you are on fixtures that meet modern standards ... I would suggest your first step would should be reducing your pressure or having a pressure reducing valve put in. At double the pressure your fixtures could be using significantly more per minute than their rated vaules.


One item of personal experience, getting a lower flow shower head does not always result in as much water saved as you might think. We went down to a ~1 GPM shower and for various reasons some people ending up taking longer showers.

[jnw]

As I mentioned above, I thought we had a 2.5gpm head but I measured the flow rate before installing the new 1.5gpm head I purchased.  It turns out the existing head is only 1.5gpm -- it's the head that came with the house when we bought it back in 2013, which I had assumed was not an efficient head because the toilet was 3 gallons per flush.  So no need to replace it.   The toilet is an efficient one we bought for $350 back in 2014.. I think it' saround 1.2 gallons a flush or so.. I know it's not beyond 1.6 gallons.

What's hurting us the most is the old dishwasher and inefficient washing machine.  Also JT is going to use the shut off valve behind shower head (which we just purchased), while lathering up and shampooing, to try and cut his per shower water usage down from 22 gallons to 11 gallons or so.

I still think the meter is off, gonna test it.  I'll run the shower for like 15 minutes or however long and see how the meter moves.

[jnw]

Here's an image of the last bill.  One month they say we use 4000 gallons and another month they say 5000.  So that' show I come up with 4500 gallons per month on average.  They used to charge like 1/2 cent per gallon for sewage, and now that's almost doubled since 2016 or so.

They have a cap on sewage at 4000 gallons.  Hence the 4 there.  But we shouldn't even be approaching that 4000 gallons between the two of us.

I don't understand what the Stormwater charge is nor do I recall if they used to charge that.. maybe that is also part of the reason for more expensive bill.

We've always had the emergency services plan for $5.45.  Gives us free ambulance rides.  Good for JT since he doesn't have health insurance.   Also I save a little because there is no copay for Medicare.  There have been a few ambulance rides since 2013 so it appears to be paying for itself.

[affordablehousing]

That is so cheap for water and sewer! You are lucky!

[SailingOnASmallSailboat]

Sewer is generally based on water usage, so if you're using 4500 gallons a month then I'd imagine you go over the cap.

You don't have a $100 water bill. You've got a $22 water bill, a $38 sewer bill, $30 in recycling and other stuff, and $15 in fees. Yeah, it's good to figure out where to save water, because #environment as well as $$$$, but $45 of that bill will not change regardless of what you do.

[Cadman]

I would tackle the low-hanging fruit before replacing your dish washer and washing machine. Besides the skyrocketing current prices and long-lead times on new appliances, the actual life of newer machine is relatively short and repair is cost-prohibitive. What you might save on water each load is easily offset by replacing the machine more frequently, and increased power used for the (much longer) cycle times. Plus the environmental impact. In fact, there's a healthy demand for top loaders in the current market.

Dishwashers are much the same..there's only so much you can do when you're trying to clean dishes with a very limited amount of water.

On that topic, do you hang your clothes out to dry? While saving money on reducing water usage is noble, cutting out a few dryer cycles could easily offset those dollars.

[jnw]

Sewer is generally based on water usage, so if you're using 4500 gallons a month then I'd imagine you go over the cap.

You don't have a $100 water bill. You've got a $22 water bill, a $38 sewer bill, $30 in recycling and other stuff, and $15 in fees. Yeah, it's good to figure out where to save water, because #environment as well as $$$$, but $45 of that bill will not change regardless of what you do.

$83 is water/sewage; which to me seems high.  I hear about people who have $50 water/sewage bill all the time.   $15 trash $6 medical.   We don't use 4500 gallons. Somethign is wrong with the meter.  I think we use like 3000 at most.  You're right $45 won't change.  Would like to cut that $60 down to $40 if we can..  knock $20 off the bill each month at least.

[jnw]

I would tackle the low-hanging fruit before replacing your dish washer and washing machine. Besides the skyrocketing current prices and long-lead times on new appliances, the actual life of newer machine is relatively short and repair is cost-prohibitive. What you might save on water each load is easily offset by replacing the machine more frequently, and increased power used for the (much longer) cycle times. Plus the environmental impact. In fact, there's a healthy demand for top loaders in the current market.

Dishwashers are much the same..there's only so much you can do when you're trying to clean dishes with a very limited amount of water.

On that topic, do you hang your clothes out to dry? While saving money on reducing water usage is noble, cutting out a few dryer cycles could easily offset those dollars.

Our dishwasher is actually starting to fall apart lately.. the top rack is barely hanging on, one side is falling down.  JT says it really can't be fixed unless welded.  Was thinking about going to appliance store to find an efficient 3 gallon dishwasher for like $250 -- instead of the $550 for new.  That will save $50 per year in water; I've calculated it.  So in 5 years of water savings the machine will pay for itself.  The current dishwasher is from the early 90's so they seem to last a while; we figure if the used efficient one lasts 10 years we'll be happy.

I calculated we'd save about $64 per year in water using a top loading HE washer at 13 gallosn per load versus agitator at 40 gallons per load.   So if we can find a used one for $250 it's pay for it self in less than 5 years as well.   We could get $150 for our used Whirlpool top loader which is in great runnign condition.  So maybe we could upgrade for $100-150 for a used HE , not sure.

I wonder how servicable these are and if replacement parts are affordable for them like they are for our old appliances.  JT has repaired our current washing machine himself pretty easily.  Often the motor drive coupling part is what breaks and is like $5 to replace; he fixes it in about a hour.  JT even repaired our new gas dryer which we got for free from the gas company for switching over from electric.  Got the gas dryer for free in 2013 and it broke around 2018.. center pivot for drum or whatever.. some screws came out.. was easy for him to fix.   He's usually up for a challenge on fixing stuff.. just hopefully the replacement parts aren't outrageous for these appliances.

[Sibley]

In my area, the utility is responsible for the meter. You can ask them to check it if there's a problem. However, agreed that if your water pressure is excessively high, then you're going to be using more water than you expect.

[jnw]

In my area, the utility is responsible for the meter. You can ask them to check it if there's a problem. However, agreed that if your water pressure is excessively high, then you're going to be using more water than you expect.

Trying to see how.  The shower is 1.5 gpm, just measured yesterday.  Perhaps the toilet tank fills faster but the float stops it.  The faucets have flow restrictors on them as well.  When everythign is turned off the meter needle doesn't move.  The washing machine has a water level sensor.  Actually not sure about the dishwasher.. how it limits water flow; I don't even know how it does that.

[Cadman]

Our dishwasher is actually starting to fall apart lately.. the top rack is barely hanging on, one side is falling down.  JT says it really can't be fixed unless welded.  Was thinking about going to appliance store to find an efficient 3 gallon dishwasher for like $250 -- instead of the $550 for new.  That will save $50 per year in water; I've calculated it.  So in 5 years of water savings the machine will pay for itself.  The current dishwasher is from the early 90's so they seem to last a while; we figure if the used efficient one lasts 10 years we'll be happy.

I calculated we'd save about $64 per year in water using a top loading HE washer at 13 gallosn per load versus agitator at 40 gallons per load.   So if we can find a used one for $250 it's pay for it self in less than 5 years as well.   We could get $150 for our used Whirlpool top loader which is in great runnign condition.  So maybe we could upgrade for $100-150 for a used HE , not sure.

I wonder how servicable these are and if replacement parts are affordable for them like they are for our old appliances.  JT has repaired our current washing machine himself pretty easily.  Often the motor drive coupling part is what breaks and is like $5 to replace; he fixes it in about a hour.  JT even repaired our new gas dryer which we got for free from the gas company for switching over from electric.  Got the gas dryer for free in 2013 and it broke around 2018.. center pivot for drum or whatever.. some screws came out.. was easy for him to fix.   He's usually up for a challenge on fixing stuff.. just hopefully the replacement parts aren't outrageous for these appliances.

For your calculations, I would use 5 years as the life of the replacement appliances, and I would avoid used unless you can get a very good warranty. Of course there are outliers, and although CR claims the avg life of a new dishwasher is 10 years, it's not unusual for service to be required in those first 5 years. Even doing repair yourself, if you need a new controller board at several hundred dollars out of pocket, you'll be money behind.

You'll also want to get accurate consumption measurements on what your current washer/dishwasher uses per avg load by taking meter readings before and after use. Without good data, it's only speculation at this point. Do keep in mind a modern front loader tends to have a longer cycle time than your current washer, so if you typically have back-to-back loads, take that into consideration from a time-efficiency standpoint.

I say this as someone that collects and restores appliances, and has friends in the industry, and it's appalling to me how major appliances (with major price tags) have become disposable as diapers.

[affordablehousing]

Definitely change out all your appliances. If you look on Craigslist, Nextdoor or the street you can usually find all the appliances you need for free, perhaps not stainless steel always, but with all the renovations going on you should at least be able to find no more than 2 year old appliances. And again, just a plug that an $80 water bill is dirt cheap. Not sure you really have to optimize that much more. Sounds like a lot of effort to save very little money. Find a dishwasher on the street? Boom, you just saved $250 for not buying it from the guy who found it on the street before and put it in a store. Alternately, you can stop showering if you have a job that doesn't require you to be in person. That saves a good bit of water.

[BudgetSlasher]

In my area, the utility is responsible for the meter. You can ask them to check it if there's a problem. However, agreed that if your water pressure is excessively high, then you're going to be using more water than you expect.

Trying to see how.  The shower is 1.5 gpm, just measured yesterday.  Perhaps the toilet tank fills faster but the float stops it.  The faucets have flow restrictors on them as well.  When everything is turned off the meter needle doesn't move.  The washing machine has a water level sensor.  Actually not sure about the dishwasher.. how it limits water flow; I don't even know how it does that.

If it is easy to access your water meter and you can read it down to the gallon:

1)It is not impossible that the water meter is out of calibration and is over reporting. You probably could test this by taking a reading and carefully running a specific know amount of water and taking another reading to compare. You might have to do a decent amount of water to notice a discrepancy. The utility company probably has a much more accurate way to check calibration, but that should give you an idea.
 
2)You could try reading it on a regular basis. Personally if I were trying to track down big water users, I would start by looking at it daily at roughly the same point in the day/your daily routines. If there are days that are way more water intensive then it is possible your activity is on those days and you can narrow it down.

3)If the activity is evenly distributed across the days or to narrow it down between activities on high use days, I might look at it before and after what I suspect my major water uses are (shower's, laundry, dishes, and garden watering come to mind) one of those might be using more total water than you estimate or it might be that all the little things during the day add up.

If the meter is accurate, there are not leaks, then I would think 2 & 3 would show where the water was being used. If the usage rates are accurate (GPM/GPF/Gal per load) then it is likely that something is being used longer or more frequently than estimate.

Edit: After posting, I thought a little more ... specifically on the garden watering. My garden hoses can flow a little bit over 15 gallons per minute when hooked to soaker hoses and less when hooked to sprayers or sprinklers. Could you be applying more water to your garden than you estimated? It probably varies by climate and crop, but 30 gallons a day seems like a lot (at least in my experience with my garden/climate) for 160 st/ft.

[jnw]

Edit: After posting, I thought a little more ... specifically on the garden watering. My garden hoses can flow a little bit over 15 gallons per minute when hooked to soaker hoses and less when hooked to sprayers or sprinklers. Could you be applying more water to your garden than you estimated? It probably varies by climate and crop, but 30 gallons a day seems like a lot (at least in my experience with my garden/climate) for 160 st/ft.

They said we used 5000 gallons last month.  We haven't watered our garden since November.

[Sibley]

This might be completely crazy, but what are your near neighbors? And what's the history of those near neighbors? IE, if 50 years ago the house next door was built by the owners of your house for their elderly parents and they hooked the water up to your meter for simplicity....

If you truly, 1000% can't account for 5000 gallons of water usage, well, a 2nd building might. It doesn't even have to be deliberate, just forgotten knowledge.

[NotJen]

I can't tell from the comments - have you checked for a leaky toilet yet?  You initially started this thread saying you use 3500 gal/mo, then you said 4500, and now it's up to 5000 gal.

My water use slowly increased for about 3 months before I realized I had a problem I needed to track down.  Turned out the toilet was leaking - which was a big shock since it was the one I used most frequently, and I really thought I would have heard it running at some point, but I didn't.

Replaced the innards for about $14, and my water use went back to normal.

[jnw]

I can't tell from the comments - have you checked for a leaky toilet yet?  You initially started this thread saying you use 3500 gal/mo, then you said 4500, and now it's up to 5000 gal.

My water use slowly increased for about 3 months before I realized I had a problem I needed to track down.  Turned out the toilet was leaking - which was a big shock since it was the one I used most frequently, and I really thought I would have heard it running at some point, but I didn't.

Replaced the innards for about $14, and my water use went back to normal.

I was off on the 3500.. i recollected incorrectly. It was 4500.  Last we checked the meter it didn't budge when everything was turned off.  I suppose we should turn off water for an extended period of time and then check again.

I explained above they read it as 4000 one month and 5000 the next.. they round.  So the average is 4500.

We'll check out the toilet leak thanks.

I need to dig up some old water bills to see if it really was an average of only 3500 gallons before.  I really can't recall now.   Maybe it is a toilet leak.  Been several years since we checked the meter.

[jnw]

I just took the lid of the toilet tank.  And the water is steady, not moving at all.  I hear nothing either.  Seems to not be leaking.  I flushed it once with tank lid off and it filled up and stopped immediately and was steady again, with no apparrent movement of surface water.  Are the leaks possibly intermittent, i.e. if I have a leak at all.

[jnw]

Just looked up the model number of our existing Maytag dishwasher and found a manual for it online.  It appears we've been using around 8 gallons of water per load since we always wash on normal.  See image below. 

I am wondering if we could get away with light or quick wash.  They come out extremely clean and spotless as is with the Finish pods.  (No heated dry).

[NotJen]

I just took the lid of the toilet tank.  And the water is steady, not moving at all.  I hear nothing either.  Seems to not be leaking.  I flushed it once with tank lid off and it filled up and stopped immediately and was steady again, with no apparrent movement of surface water.  Are the leaks possibly intermittent, i.e. if I have a leak at all.

Mine was intermittent, or at least subtle enough that I couldn't tell from observing it.  I did the same tests and concluded my toilet was fine, but I was wrong.

I had had a different toilet that ran full out when it failed - it was very easy to catch and used a HECK of a lot more water.

[jnw]

Okay I'll have to figure this all out. 

I was thinking, woudln't it be neat if washing machines were made to use the water expelled from a rinse cycle for the following wash cycle.  Seems like the water would be clean enough to use and wash clothes just as well.

[Sibley]

To test the toilet - put food dye in the tank then don't touch it for a few hours. If it gets into the bowl, its leaking.