DIY Oil change and car service, do I really have to follow the recommendation?

[jamesbond007]

So I am planning to do oil and filter changes myself on my 2014 Mazda CX-5 touring AWD. Till now I followed the "recommended" service at different mileages? Should I take them seriously? The descriptions just say "Inspect this, Inspect that" etc.... I don't want to pay $$$ just for inspection. The only real work they do is oil and filter change and tore rotation. Do I really have to follow the recommended service?

[Syonyk]

Do you have to follow the recommended service?  Of course not!  It's your car.  Unless it's a lease.  Which I don't think you'd be asking about here.

Should you?  Yeah, you should.

The manufacturer puts those service plans together for a reason.  "Inspect" usually means nothing more than "Look at and make sure it's not visibly torn or damaged."  For CV joints, as an example, a torn boot that you find early enough isn't a big deal - cut it off, regrease it (make sure the grease up by the actual joint is still in good shape and not gritty), put a replacement boot on, and you're fine.  Wait until you hear it making racket, and you'll be replacing the whole axle, which is a pain in the rear.

And timing belts have a maintenance interval because on modern interference engines, if they break, you turn the engine into scrap (or at least require a full rebuild with new pistons and valves).

So, yeah, you probably should obey the schedule if you want the car to last a long while.

[HipGnosis]

It's not clear if you're asking about the mileage intervals or the inspections.
But they are both 'serious'. 
Buy your oil by the gallon or case - when it's on sale.  Buy oil filters at Rockauto.com.  Which ever one has the highest reviews.  Buy enough at a time to save on shipping.
And buy a torque wrench for putting the drain plug back on.  Money very wisely invested.

[Manguy888]

And buy a torque wrench for putting the drain plug back on.  Money very wisely invested.

Second that. Torque wrench is one of my favorite tools - simple and magical at the same time.

[CDP45]

YES YES YES

Use Full Synthetic Oil as well and change the filter every time, costs $20 and is about the best thing you can do to protect the engine. I have been doing this for 20 car-years (mine and wifes) and have never had an issue and I've never been to a quicklube.

I will add we've only had Honda or Nissan vehicles, and over 150,000 miles including ski-seasons with the CRV and Frontier and including a G35 in my 20s....wooo!

[libertarian4321]

Should you?  Yeah, you should.

The manufacturer puts those service plans together for a reason. 

Correct.

They are put together to sell you expensive dealer maintenance as frequently as possible.  Dealer maintenance and repair are a huge profit center for all the car makers.

Unless that service is free, don't feel you need to be obligated to drag your vehicle in for the "recommended" service.  And especially not at the dealer (they probably recommend you use only the dealer, too, right?).

[Syonyk]

m'kay.

You maintain your car based on that theory, I'll maintain mine based on the schedule (note that this doesn't require going to a dealership), and let's see how they last.

[zolotiyeruki]

Should you?  Yeah, you should.

The manufacturer puts those service plans together for a reason. 

Correct.

They are put together to sell you expensive dealer maintenance as frequently as possible.  Dealer maintenance and repair are a huge profit center for all the car makers.

Unless that service is free, don't feel you need to be obligated to drag your vehicle in for the "recommended" service.  And especially not at the dealer (they probably recommend you use only the dealer, too, right?).

Manufacturers have a ... complicated... relationship with dealers.  But the general rule is "follow what the owner's manual says, not what your dealer recommends."  Often, dealers will sell buyers on a "maintenance plan" or give buyers a maintenance schedule that includes more frequent maintenance than is actually needed.  But the owner's manual is what you should follow.

Almost all maintenance and inspection items are very much DIY-able.  Checking the condition of your fluids, battery cables, and belts in your car is a <5 minute task.  A good time to do it is at the gas station while you wait for the fuel tank to fill.

[BlueMR2]

One advantage of using a trusted dealer is that they can adjust the recommendations based on the real world.  Dealers receive service bulletins with updates on how cars of each type are fairing in regards to needed extra maintenance or even unnecessary extra maintenance.  Plus, your dealer probably sees a lot of cars of your type so will have more information on local conditions (maintenance requirements such as extra places to look for rust damage in the salt belt, etc).

Examples: One of our cars has a recommend valve re-shim.  In this particular build it's been found to be completely unnecessary, so they don't do it anymore.  If I was on my own, I'd never know and would be putting in all that extra work.  In another case (different car), they've found that salt gets into an area that was formerly inspection free, but now they know to keep an eye on it.

[Gibbelstein]

You maintain your car based on that theory, I'll maintain mine based on the schedule (note that this doesn't require going to a dealership), and let's see how they last.

I think this mentality is where we DIY car maintenance people go too far.  Cars have gotten better and longer lasting throughout the decades.  And every home mechanic I know has formed their own opinions of best practices, and ALL of them seem think they are responsible for the reliability of their car.  When the truth is that most of our opinions on maintenance could probably be explained as superstition or confirmation bias.  We're all just riding the same wave of better quality cars, which is a great thing for ALL car buyers.  And I think it is hard to argue that the manufacturers (to cover their butts on warranty coverages), and certainly the dealerships (to extract as much cash as possible) don't at least have an incentive to short change the 'recommended' intervals.  Whether they do or not is impossible for us to prove.

I think this "every 300 miles I replace my coolant with liquified rubies that have been blessed by the pope and if you don't, you are RUINING YOUR ENGINE, and your lawn will probably die, and you'll never go on to write that screenplay, and your offspring will hate you..." is counterproductive and keeps a lot of people too intimidated to start DIY stuff, and more importantly given the content of this board, paying too much to have things done by dealers and shops. 

My favorite example: two of my friends bought cars at about the same time.  One, like me, likes climbing under the car and does it every 3-5,000 miles (less than the recommendation in the manual of 7,500mi, he'd have you know).  The other forgets to change the oil for 10-12,000mi at a time.  At over 100k each, 8yr later, BOTH cars are still on the road.  And neither shows any signs of trouble  (Much to the annoyance of the first guy. =) ).  Anecdotal?  Sure.  But so are the "only synthetic oil!" and "torque everything bolt to spec!" voices. 

[Silrossi46]

i have always followed it on my 1996 nissan maxima for which i am the original owner.  287,500 miles later it still runs perfect and burns no oil

[tat96]

I believe you should do as much maintenance and inspections as you feel comfortable doing.  My only advice (as a current Diesel Technician student) is to actually know "what right looks like".  You wouldn't believe how many people (even professionals) will mix different types of oils, power steering, brake, etc. and be shocked when it ruins the car.  Additionally, be aware of what constitutes a bad filter, bushing, brake pad, etc.  Many times people will replace these things when they are perfectly fine or still have thousands of miles of life still left in them.

The idea behind the recommended services are to "catch" things before they become problems.  A bad belt, low oil levels, bad filters, are all things that are DIY repairs that can save you a fortune in repair costs if one of those items goes out during operation. 

I would say "yes" to doing the manufacturer recommendations.  The reason being that the recommendations are based off of your specific make and model.  This can be modified based on the driver and the driving conditions.  If you do a lot of stop and go driving maybe pay a little more attention to your clutch/torque converter, transmission, brake pads, etc.  If you do a lot of off-roading and are banging up the vehicle a lot be sure to look at suspension components/differential. 

If you do anything though look at tires and fluid levels and address those problems immediately!

[JLee]

You maintain your car based on that theory, I'll maintain mine based on the schedule (note that this doesn't require going to a dealership), and let's see how they last.

I think this mentality is where we DIY car maintenance people go too far.  Cars have gotten better and longer lasting throughout the decades.  And every home mechanic I know has formed their own opinions of best practices, and ALL of them seem think they are responsible for the reliability of their car.  When the truth is that most of our opinions on maintenance could probably be explained as superstition or confirmation bias.  We're all just riding the same wave of better quality cars, which is a great thing for ALL car buyers.  And I think it is hard to argue that the manufacturers (to cover their butts on warranty coverages), and certainly the dealerships (to extract as much cash as possible) don't at least have an incentive to short change the 'recommended' intervals.  Whether they do or not is impossible for us to prove.

I think this "every 300 miles I replace my coolant with liquified rubies that have been blessed by the pope and if you don't, you are RUINING YOUR ENGINE, and your lawn will probably die, and you'll never go on to write that screenplay, and your offspring will hate you..." is counterproductive and keeps a lot of people too intimidated to start DIY stuff, and more importantly given the content of this board, paying too much to have things done by dealers and shops. 

My favorite example: two of my friends bought cars at about the same time.  One, like me, likes climbing under the car and does it every 3-5,000 miles (less than the recommendation in the manual of 7,500mi, he'd have you know).  The other forgets to change the oil for 10-12,000mi at a time.  At over 100k each, 8yr later, BOTH cars are still on the road.  And neither shows any signs of trouble  (Much to the annoyance of the first guy. =) ).  Anecdotal?  Sure.  But so are the "only synthetic oil!" and "torque everything bolt to spec!" voices.

Torquing properly is important.  Failing to do so can cause catastrophic failure - I bought a used vehicle once and didn't go through all the suspension bolts. This happened:

The upper control arm nut backed off completely and the bolt dislodged. Fortunately I was only going ~40mph and I didn't crash.

To be fair, though....I probably didn't put it back together with a torque wrench. :P  Having worked on cars for the better part of 15 years, I'm comfortable with my 'tight enough' sense. If it's your first time (well, even if it isn't) a torque wrench is a good idea.

I did use a torque wrench when I rebuilt my engine. That's really important.

Do you have to follow the recommended service?  Of course not!  It's your car.  Unless it's a lease.  Which I don't think you'd be asking about here.

Should you?  Yeah, you should.

The manufacturer puts those service plans together for a reason.  "Inspect" usually means nothing more than "Look at and make sure it's not visibly torn or damaged."  For CV joints, as an example, a torn boot that you find early enough isn't a big deal - cut it off, regrease it (make sure the grease up by the actual joint is still in good shape and not gritty), put a replacement boot on, and you're fine.  Wait until you hear it making racket, and you'll be replacing the whole axle, which is a pain in the rear.

And timing belts have a maintenance interval because on modern interference engines, if they break, you turn the engine into scrap (or at least require a full rebuild with new pistons and valves).

So, yeah, you probably should obey the schedule if you want the car to last a long while.

Oddly enough, replacing an axle is a lot easier than replacing the boot. Not only do you have to remove the axle to replace the boot, you have to disassemble it too...it's messy.

[Syonyk]

You can get "screw over" boot covers that work just fine and don't require removing the axle.

Something like this:

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sku/Febi/CV_Boot/W0133-1639606.html?apwcid=gglpla&gclid=Cj0KEQjw_eu8BRDC-YLHusmTmMEBEiQArW6c-CKjpdxmYNEnXk4xjdLJeQ2K81pOwH4QF7CD7cgDwuUaAkkw8P8HAQ

[JLee]

You can get "screw over" boot covers that work just fine and don't require removing the axle.

Something like this:

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sku/Febi/CV_Boot/W0133-1639606.html?apwcid=gglpla&gclid=Cj0KEQjw_eu8BRDC-YLHusmTmMEBEiQArW6c-CKjpdxmYNEnXk4xjdLJeQ2K81pOwH4QF7CD7cgDwuUaAkkw8P8HAQ

I'm not sure I'd trust one of those to flex much without failing...but for a regular passenger car, it might be fine.

[Syonyk]

It's better than having to replace the whole axle.  I've used them before, and IIRC the rest of the car failed before that gizmo did.

[Glenstache]

You are unlikely to damage your car by following the manufacturer recommendations. However, the rate at which your oil degrades (along with other fluids) depends on driving habits and conditions. There are a number of studies conducted showing that for typical use, longer oil change intervals are appropriate. For example, for passenger cars, the following independent study says to use really good filters, but change the oil only every 10,000 miles.
https://www.dtsc.ca.gov/TechnologyDevelopment/OPPTD_FLY_High-Efficiency-Oil-Filters.cfm

Other studies have shown that full synthetic has only marginal benefits over blends or conventional oils, unless the vehicle is operated in extreme conditions where that marginal benefit is important.
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19960629&slug=2336807

There are similar nuances in coolant, changing transmission and differential fluids, etc.

For my vehicles, I have settled on using good (but not necessarily top shelf) high efficiency filters, a Valvoline synthetic blend. I bought a bulk pack of filters, and buy oil when it is on sale. My materials cost for a change ends up being around $20. I change somewhere between 5000 and 7500 miles, depending on how the vehicle has been driven in that interval (summer sees a lot of logging roads, etc, so gets changed on the early end). They are circa 2000 vehicles, so recommended interval was still listed as shorter than that.

It is not necessary and will not save money, but I really like the Fumoto valves and install them on all my vehicles at the first oil change. It makes the changes easy enough that they feel like cheating.

[jim555]

I always get original filters / drain plug washers from the dealer and Mobil 1 synthetic oil.  I used to do it myself but now bring the parts to a shop and they do the dirty work in a few minutes.

[M2 pilot]

More info than you'll ever need on Bobistheoilguy.com

[Syonyk]

Just don't use Fram filters. They're cardboard junk.

[JLee]

Just don't use Fram filters. They're cardboard junk.

I use OEM Toyota filters on my MR2 (I bought a case of 10 on eBay for ~$35 many years ago) and generally Wix (NAPA Gold) on everything else.

[zolotiyeruki]

Just don't use Fram filters. They're cardboard junk.

I keep hearing people say this, based purely on cheap construction.  But is there any data out there regarding long-term effects on engine life?

[Syonyk]

They're literally the only filter I've seen reports of falling apart and filling the bottom half of the engine with cardboard, which has a very negative effect on engine life (as in, you discover this while you're pulling it apart because it failed due to lack of oil pressure to silly things like the main bearings).  They are also known for occasionally popping off the threads, since the thread tolerances are rubbish.

Mostly, it's the crumbly cardboard they use that keeps me away from them.  That they don't have as much filter media as other brands doesn't hurt my dislike of them.



Run whatever you want.  Run Fram if you want.  I just won't let them near any of my engines.

... of course, I'm thinking of putting a bypass oil filter on my truck and using Blackstone Labs to inform oil change interval.  The $100 bypass filter system (it runs a small stream of oil through some seriously good filters so it gets better filtration over time) would pay for itsself in about one oil change.

[zolotiyeruki]

They're literally the only filter I've seen reports of falling apart and filling the bottom half of the engine with cardboard, which has a very negative effect on engine life (as in, you discover this while you're pulling it apart because it failed due to lack of oil pressure to silly things like the main bearings).  They are also known for occasionally popping off the threads, since the thread tolerances are rubbish.

Mostly, it's the crumbly cardboard they use that keeps me away from them.  That they don't have as much filter media as other brands doesn't hurt my dislike of them.



Run whatever you want.  Run Fram if you want.  I just won't let them near any of my engines.

... of course, I'm thinking of putting a bypass oil filter on my truck and using Blackstone Labs to inform oil change interval.  The $100 bypass filter system (it runs a small stream of oil through some seriously good filters so it gets better filtration over time) would pay for itsself in about one oil change.

This is going to sound really pedantic of me, but it sure looks like the Fram filter in that picture did a better job of filtering, since it's so blackened :)

[Syonyk]

The Fram is pulled apart after use, yes, and I'm pretty sure the Wix is new.

The point is the cardboard and pleat count.

Again, use whatever you want.  Fram filters have been directly responsible for more engine failures than I'm comfortable with.

[Papa Mustache]

DIY oil changes are worthwhile to me. I've witnessed the aftermath of many shops that didn't do what they were supposed to do or cut corners. A couple times this happened to me - and I've listened to people's shop problems for years.

How long do you want this vehicle to last? Alot of this is dependent on how you operate the vehicle. Avoid road obstacles. Don't wear stuff out just b/c you like to fiddle with the buttons. Keep it clean inside and out.

We are at 298K miles on a early CR-V. original clutch. We have towed with it. It has been off-road a number of times (driven gently). We have made good use of the AWD in the winter and off-road.

I change the oil every 5K miles. I use Mobil 1 and NAPA Gold filters (Wix). I have used Honda OEM filters a few times along the way as well.

I have changed the oil sooner than 5K when the oil was too dirty to see the markings on the dipstick (black oil) or later when the oil was still clean at 6K or 7K miles. Dirty oil comes from wear - cold starts, heavy footed driving, towing, cold weather, hot weather, etc. Extreme conditions. Running it down the highway on cruise - the oil stays very clean for a long time.