Author Topic: DIY Detached Garage Advice?  (Read 6864 times)

Anagnorisis

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DIY Detached Garage Advice?
« on: December 02, 2016, 04:10:46 PM »
Hello!

I'm looking to DIY a detached garage this summer and am looking for some general advice and cost information.  Pointing me towards solid resources (books, sites, etc) would also be greatly appreciated.

My basic requirements are a ~20'x24' structure with concrete floor, shed style roof with 20" eaves, painted exterior surface, unfinished interior, wired for both 120 and 240, sufficient overhead lights, one car automatic garage door and a single entry door with deadbolt.  No windows.

Given my needs, any advice or resources to look to on materials/construction technique?

I've never worked with concrete before.  Any specific advice for keeping costs down here?  Is ordering a truck cost effective, or are there better ways?  I'm not afraid to mix from a bag or raw ingredient if it will keep costs down, but don't know if it's really realistic given the size of the slab and the short work times involved with concrete.

Challenge me!!??  Let's say I report back in 8 months and say "I built my garage the way you suggested for $x".  What dollar amount could I quote that would be both impressively low and believable for a first-timer?  Note that I'll need to purchase a minimum set of tools for the concrete work.  I own or can borrow all the other tools which would be used in this project, well... assuming I stick frame.

Thanks so much for any help!

Spork

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Re: DIY Detached Garage Advice?
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2016, 05:12:40 PM »
I have done only minimal concrete work before.  Very minimal.  Make sure you have LOTS of friends over to handle the slab pour.  The biggest slab I have done was probably 10x30 and there were about 5 of us working as fast as we could to keep up with the concrete pour, the spreading, the leveling, etc.

I am a huge fan of DIY.  I outsource concrete that is bigger than "a couple of bags from Home Depot".

Anagnorisis

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Re: DIY Detached Garage Advice?
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2016, 05:34:36 PM »
Thanks for the input! 

That's two points in the "outsource the concrete" column.  You and my father both.  I'm pretty much swayed.  I hate paying others to do work for me, but I get the feeling I'd be in over my head on it.

Other than the garage door, the remaining work is stuff I've done before.

Spork

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Re: DIY Detached Garage Advice?
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2016, 05:40:34 PM »
Thanks for the input! 

That's two points in the "outsource the concrete" column.  You and my father both.  I'm pretty much swayed.  I hate paying others to do work for me, but I get the feeling I'd be in over my head on it.

Other than the garage door, the remaining work is stuff I've done before.

Garage doors (and springs) are not as difficult as folks say they are.  Know there is potential danger.  Know how to deal with it.  Deal with it.

Through a comedy of errors, I tensioned/untensioned my garage door spring about 5 times.  Not a big deal.  Totally DIY-able for the normal able bodied person.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: DIY Detached Garage Advice?
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2016, 07:37:17 PM »
Garage doors (and springs) are not as difficult as folks say they are.  Know there is potential danger.  Know how to deal with it.  Deal with it.

Through a comedy of errors, I tensioned/untensioned my garage door spring about 5 times.  Not a big deal.  Totally DIY-able for the normal able bodied person.
Agreed.  The danger from garage doors is greatly exaggerated by garage door installers :)  I've done a couple garage doors, plus a few replacement springs, with no incident.

Papa bear

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Re: DIY Detached Garage Advice?
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2016, 07:37:45 PM »
I helped a buddy with an 18 x 28 outbuilding.  He dug out the footers himself, laid the foundation block, framed it all, sided, roofed, ran electric, and built in a wood stove. 

But he paid to have the concrete poured. 

Even my dad, who has remodeled and built multiple houses, either pays for the concrete work, or had coworkers from his old construction company who were concrete guys finish it for big jobs.

If you are doing something small, like a piece of sidewalk, DIY. Otherwise, you probably should hire it out.


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Papa bear

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Re: DIY Detached Garage Advice?
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2016, 07:44:14 PM »
I'll get his final number on cost if he can provide it.  Framing was fun. We had a group of 8 of us or so who framed it out, got the roof on and sheathed in a weekend.  There were 4 of us who had done a lot of DIY work and some other guys we had cutting boards and rafters for us. He ended up going pretty tall with a steep roof pitch.  He can walk in the attic with no problem.

I went down at a different point in time and helped him wire it up.


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lthenderson

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Re: DIY Detached Garage Advice?
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2016, 10:44:50 AM »
Having done lots of construction, I would say outsource the concrete. You can still build the forms, set anchor bolts, float it, round over edges, etc. but at least have it delivered. Delivery isn't very expensive to have done and you can do a lot of work in a short amount of time. Unless you had a huge experienced crew, it would be a lot of work to attempt such a big slab with just an electric batch mixer and wheelbarrow. Plus when you DIY, what do you do with the extra sand, gravel and cement? You don't want to run short so you always have extra where if you have it delivered, that no longer remains your problem.

For construction, there are lots of online resources for proper framing techniques. Depending on how handy you are, you can do your own trusses or order custom built. Custom built ones generally aren't terribly more expensive and can speed things up but doing it yourself isn't terribly hard either. I know many places sell plans for DIY people for a small pittance that will show you exactly where every stick of wood goes. Well worth it if you don't have a lot of experience in framing.

I would rethink the window thing perhaps. You didn't specify what your garage would be used for (with 240 I'm guessing perhaps some welding) but it is nice to have a couple windows in for ventilation to move air through or vent fumes on whatever you are working out. If it is a security thing or a privacy thing, at least think of a ventilation fan somewhere.

Garages are very customized these days so if you would elaborate on what you intend to use it for, perhaps we could give you more specific tips.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: DIY Detached Garage Advice?
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2016, 07:26:49 AM »
... I know many places sell plans for DIY people for a small pittance that will show you exactly where every stick of wood goes. Well worth it if you don't have a lot of experience in framing.
Can you point me in the direction of one or two of these?  Cheap custom plans sound awesome!

dess1313

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Re: DIY Detached Garage Advice?
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2016, 12:41:50 AM »
Order the concrete.  get them to lay it.  worth every penny.  its very hard to keep up AND get the right mix for your purpose.  and get it leveled and sloped properly

Look at getting regular or self supporting rafters delivered.  Building walls isn't that hard if a few people know what they are doing, and pre made rafters just get set up and attached with no fuss.  They're tricky to cut angles and such on.

Shingling is easy enough, if someoene there knows a little about it.  peaks and valleys take a bit of learning but aren't usually hard.  if someone has a front end loader its easy to lift up.  otherwise there's sliding things i have seen made to lift singles up a ladder.  take a peice of plywood, put a 2x4 on the bottom edge to prevent bundles from sliding off, and two rails underneath that fit each side of the ladder.  two holes or anchor points at the top for a rope.  makes it easy to lift a lot of shingles safely up a ladder.  3rd person lifts them off while the first two lift and lower.  I hate watching people try to climb ladders with them on their shoulders

Consider leaving yourself enough head room you can put up shelving or hang stuff from the ceiling.  frees up a lot of floor space.  bikes,  tires, tubs of xmas decorations etc.

When we did our garage, instead of finishing it in the typical drywall, we threw up some insulation and put up tin on the inside.  its finished and painted and thats all you have to ever do to it after

Le Poisson

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Re: DIY Detached Garage Advice?
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2016, 05:36:59 AM »
Where are you? If in Canada, I'd suggest looking at the garage kits from Home Building centers. No need to reinvent the wheel. The kits include everything except labour. There are designs for "normal" and loft garages. Prices usually include drawings, delivery etc. and all you have to do is supply a site, labour, and a foundation.

Another vote for hiring in the slab. Getting the right concrete mix for your climate/application is important, and a good supplier and crew will know what to get, how to pour, and how to finish.

Uturn

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Re: DIY Detached Garage Advice?
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2016, 08:36:08 AM »
I help a friend build a garage last year.  He worked a summer years ago as a framer, so he knows a bit about construction.  We DIY'ed the slab for his patio, but he hired out the garage floor.  When someone who knows how to do it hires it out, it makes me think that is the way to go. 

lthenderson

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Re: DIY Detached Garage Advice?
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2016, 09:20:25 AM »
... I know many places sell plans for DIY people for a small pittance that will show you exactly where every stick of wood goes. Well worth it if you don't have a lot of experience in framing.
Can you point me in the direction of one or two of these?  Cheap custom plans sound awesome!

Just google 'garage plans online' and you will find dozens of sites.

Cadman

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Re: DIY Detached Garage Advice?
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2016, 10:53:26 AM »
Having had lots of experience in this arena, not only do I endorse others' suggestions of outsourcing the concrete, but have them take care of the footings, forms and rebar. Not only will you avoid a potential he said/she said conflict if anything goes wrong later, but these crews are fast, efficient and the savings of doing all the prework yourself is minimal.

Depending on your location, a slab your size could be done as a monolithic pour which would save a lot of dollars over having frost footings dug and poured. Draw up your plans, specify stem wall thickness and height, slab thickness, mesh or rebar (and spacing, vapor barrier, any in floor PEX and openings for your doors and get a few quotes. Don't forget to ID number and spacing of anchor bolts for your sill plates, and where you want the wall penetration for elec service. If the location is pretty level and won't need much fill or leveling, you could shop your plan around as-is and come in pretty close. Don't forget about any poured aprons- now's the time.

The trend these days is to put a very minor slope from rear of the garage to the front to help with drainage, especially in snow country. Also verify where they plan to make the cement cuts. Anymore, I put these on my drawings myself as the job may fall to someone who doesn't understand why they need to be in specific locations.



robartsd

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Re: DIY Detached Garage Advice?
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2016, 12:47:22 PM »
Supplying the concrete you need from bags would be difficult and not cost effective for such a large project. Form/rebar work can be DIY because you don't have to do it on the schedule of the concrete mix, but you do have to make sure it is completely ready before the concrete arrives. If you don't have access to someone with some experience in finishing the concrete to help you, you'll want to hire someone for that as well - as soon as the water and cement are combined you're on a timeline where errors/delays can be very costly. Be sure you know what the concrete contractor will/will not due as far as placing anchor bolts, if precision is required it is usually the general contractor not the concrete sub-contractor that handles these for contractor built projects.

Cadman

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Re: DIY Detached Garage Advice?
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2016, 02:24:23 PM »
Something else to consider, a shed roof will add some cost and complexity at that span, especially if you don't want any center supports (which I assume you wouldn't). There are ways to make it happen, but it's all more involved/costlier than using pre-made traditional roof trusses, especially if snow is a concern. As with anything, it seems to take a lot of work to make the result look simple. Having built a 16x24 garage with shed roof with 20" overhangs on the sides (plus deep overhang on the front), I know where you're coming from.

Le Poisson

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Re: DIY Detached Garage Advice?
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2016, 02:32:31 PM »
Cadman raises many good points. Listen to him.

Is there a reason for the Shed roof that might not be immediately obvious to us? If not, then I suggest a Cape Cod/Saltbox design with a loft artist's space. Whether you use the loft for storage, or put in a small workspace is up to you, but for the low additional cost, the space is valuable.

Le Poisson

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Re: DIY Detached Garage Advice?
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2016, 12:36:08 PM »
Nice looking place Lou!

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Re: DIY Detached Garage Advice?
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2016, 12:49:27 PM »

Where are you on having a specific architectural need vs cheap? Snow loads?Does it need to be well insulated for summer/winter conditions? You might consider the metal garage kits if you are in a favorable space. The vendors will provide stamped engineered plans for your permitting needs. That said, a stick-built garage is totally reasonable to take on.

For the electrical, don't bother with anything less than 12 ga wire as the outlets are more likely to be used for high amp power tools. It is hard to have too many outlets. I really like the LED shop lights I installed in my garage for light quality, low profile, and never having to deal with fluorescent tubes and ballasts ever again.

If stick building, pre-fab trusses are worth it and are available in most areas.

Definitely hire out the big slab, though you could do forms, etc yourself (talk to contractor first).

Metal roofs are wonderful and very easy to install on a structure as simple as a garage.


Papa bear

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Re: DIY Detached Garage Advice?
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2016, 12:34:17 PM »
Got it. Total cost on the build was under 14k, which included dealing with a retaining wall because of the slope. 

Hope this helps.


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