Disastrous attic situation - question, with pictures

[The Money Monk]

I am constantly infuriated thinking about the 'home inspector' i paid for, who might as well have been working directly for the realtor.  can only guess that houses must be officially condemn-able for them to bother mentioning any issues.

Anyway, my house is a nightmare of half-assed DIY stuff. The attic is particularly bad. the insulation is so sparse that in many areas there just isn't any, and you can see the drywall completely exposed. Also much of the ducting is not insulated at all, just bare metal running through a 140 degree attic. Add to that a bunch of heinous completely open air pathways into the attic like this:



And my poor ac is running all day just to keep the house at 80 degrees in this Florida heat. Obviously I intend to air seal the attic as best I can and then increase the insulation.

My question is about a 'vent' in the kitchen above the stove that is literally just a hole in the ceiling leading to the attic with a fan in it. You can literally look up into it and see the roof plywood. If there were any insulation in the attic it would be falling into my kitchen.



My question is how to fix this. Do I need to run a vent pipe out through the roof, or what? It can't be ok to just vent directly into the attic like that right? If nothing else it would be a giant leak for conditioned air, and at worst could cause mold up in there I would surmise.

It's not actually a range-hood vent or anything, so does it even need to be there with an electric stove? Could I just block it off?

[CowboyAndIndian]

Wow, that is bad.

The kitchen vent evacuates both water vapor (from cooking as well as combustion) as well as thing like oil. You should see the filter on my vent (filled with thick oil).

Most american houses have a vent which just recirculates air. I hate this kind. It does nothing but waste electricity.
You need a exhaust vent which vents to the outside.

I have a 700 cfm kobe exhaust which is vented to the outside (we cook Indian food and with the spices, so this is needed!).

My suggestions are

• Install an exhaust vent which vents to the the outside.
• Add insulation to your attic.
• You should think of suing your home inspector

[zolotiyeruki]

Sadly, inspectors usually have you sign a thing that says basically, "if we missed something, you can't sue us."

Regarding the kitchen vent, I'm not sure what building codes call for, but my recollection is that it's ok to vent them into the attic.  But I'd run a vent to the outside, just like bathroom vents.

I guess the good news for you is that things will only get better as you improve your insulation :)

[The Money Monk]

My suggestions are

• Install an exhaust vent which vents to the the outside.
• Add insulation to your attic.
• You should think of suing your home inspector

Can I run a duct straight up from the hole to a roof vent? Or are there other considerations?

[CowboyAndIndian]

My suggestions are

• Install an exhaust vent which vents to the the outside.
• Add insulation to your attic.
• You should think of suing your home inspector

Can I run a duct straight up from the hole to a roof vent? Or are there other considerations?

Yes, you can vent to the roof or thru a side wall or a roof vent.
My vent goes out thru the roof, but I would prefer a side wall if that was close (less chance of leaks than a roof).

Just limit the length of the pipe and the number of bends/elbows. The longer the length and the more the number of turns in the pipe, it will constrict the flow of air thru it.

In any case, make sure your vent has a flapper to prevent cold/hot air from coming into your house from the outside.
Also, the vent should have something to prevent birds/squirrels from making a nest there.

[forummm]

I've seen attic fans before that pull the hot air (from the ceiling) up into the house. The idea is that it's a cheaper way to cool the house than the AC. But those fans usually seal up when they are off, and typically aren't venting kitchen fumes up.

Sorry you got more (or maybe I should say less) than what you bargained for.

[The Money Monk]

I guess the good news for you is that things will only get better as you improve your insulation :)

Yeah, the reason I was up there in the first place is because I have to get rid of some rats. Filthy buggers. So I have to block them out and take care of that problem before I can tackle the insulation issues.

[forummm]

Insulation is really pretty cheap. And easy to install in an attic. Given the lack of any up there, you'll probably save enough to pay for it just on the HVAC bills within a year or so. Get at least R-30 up there, and make an air barrier everywhere on your ceiling (below the insulation, not above it).

[The Money Monk]

Insulation is really pretty cheap. And easy to install in an attic. Given the lack of any up there, you'll probably save enough to pay for it just on the HVAC bills within a year or so. Get at least R-30 up there, and make an air barrier everywhere on your ceiling (below the insulation, not above it).

What do you mean by 'make an air barrier'? Are you just talking about general air-sealing of the attic?

Yeah once I make sure I have these rats taken care of I am going to do the insulation, most likely blown-in cellulose. I just need to do my research on how to properly prep so I don't fuck something up.

[forummm]

Insulation is really pretty cheap. And easy to install in an attic. Given the lack of any up there, you'll probably save enough to pay for it just on the HVAC bills within a year or so. Get at least R-30 up there, and make an air barrier everywhere on your ceiling (below the insulation, not above it).

What do you mean by 'make an air barrier'? Are you just talking about general air-sealing of the attic?

Yeah once I make sure I have these rats taken care of I am going to do the insulation, most likely blown-in cellulose. I just need to do my research on how to properly prep so I don't fuck something up.

Have drywall or some other solid surface between the living space and the attic. Otherwise air can just blow right through it (as your kitchen fan facilitates now).

[archben82]

I feel for you, any inspector should have noticed these things the instant they stepped in the house.  You local code may differ, but kitchens do need a vent above the range, whether it be directly vented to the outside or the cheap recirculating ones.  Venting directly to the outside is really the only way to go, venting directly to the attic is not only not allowed but could be dangerous.  All stoves need to be vented, whether gas, electric, you name it.

For insulating the ducts there are two methods, you can either wrap it with special duct insulation or slide on sleeve insulation.  Since it's installed you'll probably need to wrap it, taking care to seal all the joints with the proper tape (not duct tape).  Insulating the other areas of the attic, I'd just match what they placed elsewhere, so if fiberglass batts do the same, unless of course they didn't use enough, so maybe it's a complete reinstall.

[gillstone]

Been in a similar spot and you have my sympathy.

1. Get that fan to vent to the outside.  Even if for some reason, venting to the attic is allowed under code in your town, venting outside is critical makes sure you aren't building up moisture in your attic.  You can run it through the roof.

2. Get the attic insulated including any ducts.  Talk to a professional for this to see if you should have a warm attic or a cold attic and what they recommend to make that happen.  It may be you can DIY the work; but given the conditions, you should seek a professional opinion on next steps for insulation.

3. Is your attic itself vented? I ask because if the other stuff wasn't done, its likely you don't have venting for your attic in general.  Also, with your attic reaching 140F it may be becasue the warm air has nowhere to go.  As a side note, if the attic isn't vented you should put a new roof on your long term budget since poor venting will result in shingles aging and failing prematurely. 

[dess1313]

Ask for a professional quote from 2 or 4 sources and pick their brain about what is wrong, the steps of fixing it, and what needs to be done.  See what the estimated cost is, and what are the different parts of the job.  You might be able to do some prep work to cut costs down.  I did this with my furnace and eliminated a bunch of companies that tried to sell me a whole line of BS about replacing some parts or everything under the sun in my house related to HVAC.  Went with the straight forward guy who was honest about what needed to be done and only what needed to be done.

You'll see then what needs to be done to bring it to code, and if one is selling you a load of BS you'll spot it with the other quotes.  Is there any energy grants in your area for energy savings?  Sometimes you can have some costs covered under these. 

I had a chance at a eco grant, they paid for part of the insulation, but for me to buy insulation would be about $1000, and i would have to install it myself through a wicked small attic hatch.  Would have been a whole day if not two at it.  However, i could pay someone $1100 and they came in and blew it in with the big machine.  They were done by noon.  That made total financial sense to me, and you might find it could be similar for you.  I'm also not sure how handy you might be.

Also the comments by gillstone is right.  If there are not any, or not enough vents to outside, you will have both moisture and heat problems.  Life expectancy of your roof may be low, especially if they used crappy product.  I'm not sure where you're from, but with heat like that its not good for your roof.  You are likely under ventilated or they may not be working.   Insulation added over the soffets can block air flow and lead to problems too if it was done improperly by someone previously