Author Topic: Deck repair questions? Or just replace?  (Read 9267 times)

sheepgetlambs

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Deck repair questions? Or just replace?
« on: January 18, 2015, 04:22:29 PM »
We just bought a house with a large lakeside deck. There is obvious rot in lots of the boards and a few of the supports. How do we determine if we need to rip off the whole deck and start over or just replace piece by piece? Also, the inspector pointed out that the deck is not mounted with joist hangers, just "toe nailed" in. Can we put in joist hangers after the fact? Are they absolutely necessary? We did get a nice credit from the sellers but we want to do the work ourselves, even though we're not super experienced. My parents live within an hours drive and my father, although not able to do much physical work anymore, is an experienced DIY and has offered to guide us through the project. I haven't asked him any detailed questions about this yet as he's is Florida for the winter.

Weedy Acres

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Re: Deck repair questions? Or just replace?
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2015, 07:14:27 PM »
Typically the decking rots long before the framing.  You probably just need to tear off the deck boards, inspect the framing, replace any joists needed, then re-deck.  You could do a board at a time, but there's a possibility that the new boards aren't exactly the same dimensions as the old ones, so they might not fit right.  And then you'd have a patchwork of new and old.  But hard to tell without photos whether that's really needed at this point in time.

While the decking is off, you can address any other issues like adding blocking if there's too much bounce in the deck. 

And yes, joist hangers can be added after the fact.  Just wrap them around the joists and nail them in.  It's easier without the decking in place, of course.  And the Bostich Metal Connector Nailer makes short work of all the nails.  Buy a used on on ebay and then sell when you're done.

James

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Re: Deck repair questions? Or just replace?
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2015, 07:25:10 PM »
I agree with the above, best to tear off the deck boards and see what you have. If there is rot in the framing then deal with it when you see it, no use getting ahead of yourself and predicting what needs to be done. Once the deck is off you can figure out any rot that exists, add joist hangers, or if significant rot is present best to just start from scratch.


If you do choose to avoid removing the whole deck, I would start by removing any rotten boards, and then get a very bring light you can bring with you under the deck.  You need to see exactly what you are dealing with, and use a screwdriver or other sharp tool to dig at the wood and find any rot. A lot depends on what you find when you do a very thorough inspection. Replacing individual supports and boards most likely can be done, it then becomes a matter of whether it should be done and whether it is cheaper to do so in the long run.

sheepgetlambs

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Re: Deck repair questions? Or just replace?
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2015, 02:09:44 PM »
Thanks for the tips. The deck is currently covered in snow/ice and will be for awhile, even with shoveling and sweeping. This is a Spring job, just thinking and planning right now. Also, the house is built into a hill, with a basement door under the deck, so getting underneath with a bright light is just a matter of walking down there with a good trouble light. The supports are definitely rotted where they contact the cement underneath. Lots of decking boards are bad, too. Good point about the new lumber not being the same dimension (I assume you mean thickness). We'll have to make sure to purchase enough lumber to do the whole thing so we aren't dealing with that issue again in a couple of years.

I guess what I'm wondering about is how do I know if I should just scrap the whole thing or replace just the supports and decking that seem rotted? Is the a percentage at which point it would make more sense to scrap the whole thing and start over from scratch?

Thanks for any tips. Will try to get photos if we get some thawing.


Greg

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Re: Deck repair questions? Or just replace?
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2015, 07:13:44 PM »
Opinions may differ, but I would put the threshold of replace vs. repair at around 70%.  It's far easier to repair a few posts and bad boards than tear down and rebuild.  For me this would be easy, but would also depend on the design and whether I am happy with it, and how well it is done to begin with.  Since the joists were only toe-nailed, I'd also inspect the ledger board connection to make sure that a) it's not rotten in places or letting the house framing rot, and b) that it has sufficient fasteners to hold it to the house framing.  Google "deck failure" if you want to see what bad design/construction of decks looks like.

To replace bad posts, jack up the beam near the bad post and cut/pull nails as needed to free the old post, and install the new one in it's place.  If the post doesn't have to look good, use incised treated wood with galvanized brackets and nails, paint any cuts with wood preservative.  If the post is appearance grade, either use clear cedar or "sunwood" or un-incised treated wood and let it season before painting.

To install brackets, sink the toe nails so they are at least flush with the surface of the joists, then wrap a hanger (use Z-max or similar if they're treated) and install using the correct nails or screws.  By "correct" I mean galvanized 9g joist hanger nails or Simpson hanger screws, and 16d nails where called for for LUS hangers for instance.  The LUS hangers use longer nails for extra security.

Resist any temptation to sister or splice in sections or bad posts, joints, or boards.  Use good quality coated screws in place of nails for the deck boards unless you're trying to match existing nails.

deborah

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Re: Deck repair questions? Or just replace?
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2015, 07:27:19 PM »
Actually, it sounds like the supports may just be rotten around the bottoms - Imbedding wood into concrete is a recipe for rot - especially if there is also bad drainage, so water pools there. I would possibly cut the supports a few inches above ground level and use metal post supports to attach them to the concrete - this assumes that the rest of the support is not at all rotten. Of course, you also need to fix the drainage problem.

New decking could be narrower/wider as well as thicker/thinner. Anyway, I would replace the lot - perhaps retaining boards that aren't rotten for something else.

Glenstache

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Re: Deck repair questions? Or just replace?
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2015, 06:40:40 PM »
This may be stating the obvious, but if you are concerned about the integrity of the deck and it is loaded with snow, be careful about getting underneath it to poke and prod. Snow can be heavy and has no regrets about collapsing structures that are not up to snuff.

As to materials, replace with pressure treated lumber rated for ground contact as appropriate to give it a longer life. If you are replacing the surface decking, screws and composite materials such as Trex are more expensive but much, much lower O&M over the long run.

Colorado Hiker

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Re: Deck repair questions? Or just replace?
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2015, 01:50:14 AM »
I replaced all the posts and decking on my large front porch this year due to the same rot issues (the ledger and joists were still ok for the most part -- had to replace a few joists).  Even if you're not going to apply for a permit, at least check your town's building codes to make sure you get a good idea of what materials/layouts you should be using.  I was a novice but was able to build an acceptable replacement, including pouring new footings, etc., with only minor roadblocks.  Make sure your math is right, do your homework on finishes/etc. in relation to your climate, and you'll be done before you know it!  Good luck!

James

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Re: Deck repair questions? Or just replace?
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2015, 12:19:53 PM »
To get better advice I would say you need pictures and a list of what needs replacing. I don't think you can say a percentage of the woodwork, because it depends on what area they are from, how much work to replace, etc. And it depends a lot on the quality of the wood that isn't "rotten". Will it take paint well? Do you see it and do you care if it doesn't match well? Etc. Finally, it depends a lot on personal preference. I would rather just rebuild because I hate mixing old and new. But otherwise might really want to preserve what is there and be willing to take on that effort.

Weedy Acres

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Re: Deck repair questions? Or just replace?
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2015, 03:57:40 PM »
If it's the bottom of your posts that are rotting, you should replace them.  Others have mentioned that.  Make sure the replacement ones are not touching or enveloped in the concrete.  Use a Simpson post base to keep the wood from contacting the concrete.  That will make the replacements last a lot longer.

archben82

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Re: Deck repair questions? Or just replace?
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2015, 06:58:00 PM »
The lifespan for a pressure treated deck left unpainted or stained is typically 15 years.  As pointed out earlier the decking almost always needs replacement before the framing.  Yes I believe you can install joist hangers after the fact.  To see if the framing needs to be replaced just inspect it and use your judgement.  Obviously if a screwdriver or pick can pierce the framing it's rotten. and must be replaced....pay special attention to the top of the joists.  Any framing member that shows ANY signs of rot should be replaced, not just repaired.  If you find that many framing members show signs of rot it's time to replace.  If you find the frame is good, I suggest placing strips of self adhering membrane like Grace ice and water shield  on top of the joists to protect the surface between the joist and decking boards.  Lastly, but most importantly, almost all deck failures occur at the connection with the house.  Since you'll be inspecting the deck thoroughly, take a look at how the ledger is connected to the house.  If simply nailed on, do not use the deck until that's remedied.  Your local building department should be able to tell you what to use and the proper fastening pattern to ensure a good connection.