Mini Skid Steer and damage protection/insurance

[jeromedawg]

Hi all,

I'm thinking about renting a mini skid steer to do some grading and moving dirt in our yard.

For those of you who have experience with these (or similar equipment), how long would you say it takes for a novice/beginner (who has never operated one) to move and grade around 4" of dirt across roughly 400sq ft of area (this is probably going to be around 4cu yds if I had to estimate). I'd be moving most of the dirt to our front yard which is about 100' or so away and just mounding it up for others to take (if nobody wants it I'll probably just pay to have it hauled at a later time). Then I'd want to backfill the excavated & graded area with  about 4" of roadbase (4-5cu yds). I figure all of this can be done using a skid steer, but curious how long I should expect it to take (and how long to rent one). I'm trying to compare the cost of hiring a local hauling company to move the dirt vs me renting heavy equipment to do the same. If it only costs a few hundred more to hire the work out (after the cost of rental + materials) then I might lean towards just contracting it out.



Also, is it always a good idea to purchase damage protection/insurance for heavy equipment like this?

[lthenderson]

I've never rented one out but I wouldn't be afraid of the learning curve. They look really simple to use but then I've driven tractors with buckets so YMMV. As for renting versus hiring, it would have to be a pretty big cost savings for me to rent a skid and do it myself for a few reasons.

Having seen pictures of your front yard, staging that much road base and removed dirt is going to take up a lot of real estate with both there at the same time. If it isn't, then you have to figure in scheduling and waiting for the road base into your rental or schedule two different rentals. Also, living on a contained plot of land, what are your plans for any extra road base materials you don't use? Then comes the joy of estimating it ahead of time. Do you order just enough, risk running short and having to schedule and pay for delivery of a tiny load or do you order extra and now have to figure out where to put it when not used. I would pay somewhat of a premium just to not have to worry about those things. But like everything, it really depends on your budget.

As for the damage protection insurance, I guess for me it would depend greatly on what it covers. I tend to self insure for things like this, but again, my budget and savings account may not be the same as yours. If you don't insure and it goes up in flames, will it put you out on the streets?

[Paper Chaser]

A stand on or walk behind skid steer can be $30-40k new. Replacing a hydraulic line can be a few hundred bucks at a time. A damaged track can cost $1000-1500 before labor to replace it.

Unless the insurance is outrageous, I'd probably spring for it.

But it think that lthenderson brings up reasonable questions about whether it's logistically worth the savings. And the answer to that question probably depends on price difference between renting or having it done, and how confident you are that you'd get the end result you want.

[GilesMM]

Check your homeowner's insurance and any credit card coverage both for the unit and for your property.  My experience is that even experienced operators can have a momentary loss of concentration and bump into a wall, fence, or house.  The problem with machinery in these areas is that, unlike a shovel, a skid steer may go right through a fence or wall. Skid steers are fun but you need some time in the seat to get used to the turning/rotating controls to ensure you know which way you will go and how fast.  It is easy to mix up forward/backward turning and next thing you know you have swung her into the house. Oopsie daisy.


Maybe I missed it but why would you want gravel in your yard?  It tends to be hard, ugly and attracts weeds and whatnot. I only use it as a driving/parking apron.  I battle weeds all summer.  If it is a small area why not grow something green like grass or native plants?

[sonofsven]

I always get the insurance when I rent expensive equipment.
I also hire guys generally because they already have the trucks, trailers, equipment, connecions, and (most of all) experience.
But I have worked with the same outfit a long time and trust the operator, he's good. Running machines for thirty plus years does that.
If you're just moving gravel from place to place a skid steer is fine, but for grading a mini excavator can't be beat.
Also the skids are likely to trash your driveway.

[jeromedawg]

Check your homeowner's insurance and any credit card coverage both for the unit and for your property.  My experience is that even experienced operators can have a momentary loss of concentration and bump into a wall, fence, or house.  The problem with machinery in these areas is that, unlike a shovel, a skid steer may go right through a fence or wall. Skid steers are fun but you need some time in the seat to get used to the turning/rotating controls to ensure you know which way you will go and how fast.  It is easy to mix up forward/backward turning and next thing you know you have swung her into the house. Oopsie daisy.


Maybe I missed it but why would you want gravel in your yard?  It tends to be hard, ugly and attracts weeds and whatnot. I only use it as a driving/parking apron.  I battle weeds all summer.  If it is a small area why not grow something green like grass or native plants?

My plan would be to put a 4" layer of graded/compacted roadbase where the dirt was excavated and then a 2" of the 'finish' material (crushed rock path surrounding a flagstone patio area). The outside edges between the path and the fence line/property line I would be hedging with native plants I picked up from a nearby nursery. I want to have a usable area in our yard for the kids to run around and play in. I also want to setup a fire pit out there. In another thread, I am considering putting up a small shed too.

I always get the insurance when I rent expensive equipment.
I also hire guys generally because they already have the trucks, trailers, equipment, connecions, and (most of all) experience.
But I have worked with the same outfit a long time and trust the operator, he's good. Running machines for thirty plus years does that.
If you're just moving gravel from place to place a skid steer is fine, but for grading a mini excavator can't be beat.
Also the skids are likely to trash your driveway.

Good to know - you're referring to one of these with the backhoe right? https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/excavators/mini-excavators.html

In terms of the skids, if you have them drive onto 3/4" plywood so that they can turn and pivot, would that prevent the permanent skid marks? I've heard that the damage from those primarily comes from when they turn and pivot...

[sonofsven]

Check your homeowner's insurance and any credit card coverage both for the unit and for your property.  My experience is that even experienced operators can have a momentary loss of concentration and bump into a wall, fence, or house.  The problem with machinery in these areas is that, unlike a shovel, a skid steer may go right through a fence or wall. Skid steers are fun but you need some time in the seat to get used to the turning/rotating controls to ensure you know which way you will go and how fast.  It is easy to mix up forward/backward turning and next thing you know you have swung her into the house. Oopsie daisy.


Maybe I missed it but why would you want gravel in your yard?  It tends to be hard, ugly and attracts weeds and whatnot. I only use it as a driving/parking apron.  I battle weeds all summer.  If it is a small area why not grow something green like grass or native plants?

My plan would be to put a 4" layer of graded/compacted roadbase where the dirt was excavated and then a 2" of the 'finish' material (crushed rock path surrounding a flagstone patio area). The outside edges between the path and the fence line/property line I would be hedging with native plants I picked up from a nearby nursery. I want to have a usable area in our yard for the kids to run around and play in. I also want to setup a fire pit out there. In another thread, I am considering putting up a small shed too.

I always get the insurance when I rent expensive equipment.
I also hire guys generally because they already have the trucks, trailers, equipment, connecions, and (most of all) experience.
But I have worked with the same outfit a long time and trust the operator, he's good. Running machines for thirty plus years does that.
If you're just moving gravel from place to place a skid steer is fine, but for grading a mini excavator can't be beat.
Also the skids are likely to trash your driveway.

Good to know - you're referring to one of these with the backhoe right? https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/excavators/mini-excavators.html

In terms of the skids, if you have them drive onto 3/4" plywood so that they can turn and pivot, would that prevent the permanent skid marks? I've heard that the damage from those primarily comes from when they turn and pivot...

Yes, doesn't have to be 3/4, but plywood will protect the concrete/blacktop. Wherever the skids go they will cause some damage.
A skid steer can get you close on grading (I sometimes use a tractor which has the same problem) but not being able to tilt the blade (bucket) limits you, especially on uneven ground. You can do the rest by hand with a rake if you get it close.

[jeromedawg]

Check your homeowner's insurance and any credit card coverage both for the unit and for your property.  My experience is that even experienced operators can have a momentary loss of concentration and bump into a wall, fence, or house.  The problem with machinery in these areas is that, unlike a shovel, a skid steer may go right through a fence or wall. Skid steers are fun but you need some time in the seat to get used to the turning/rotating controls to ensure you know which way you will go and how fast.  It is easy to mix up forward/backward turning and next thing you know you have swung her into the house. Oopsie daisy.


Maybe I missed it but why would you want gravel in your yard?  It tends to be hard, ugly and attracts weeds and whatnot. I only use it as a driving/parking apron.  I battle weeds all summer.  If it is a small area why not grow something green like grass or native plants?

My plan would be to put a 4" layer of graded/compacted roadbase where the dirt was excavated and then a 2" of the 'finish' material (crushed rock path surrounding a flagstone patio area). The outside edges between the path and the fence line/property line I would be hedging with native plants I picked up from a nearby nursery. I want to have a usable area in our yard for the kids to run around and play in. I also want to setup a fire pit out there. In another thread, I am considering putting up a small shed too.

I always get the insurance when I rent expensive equipment.
I also hire guys generally because they already have the trucks, trailers, equipment, connecions, and (most of all) experience.
But I have worked with the same outfit a long time and trust the operator, he's good. Running machines for thirty plus years does that.
If you're just moving gravel from place to place a skid steer is fine, but for grading a mini excavator can't be beat.
Also the skids are likely to trash your driveway.

Good to know - you're referring to one of these with the backhoe right? https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/excavators/mini-excavators.html

In terms of the skids, if you have them drive onto 3/4" plywood so that they can turn and pivot, would that prevent the permanent skid marks? I've heard that the damage from those primarily comes from when they turn and pivot...

Yes, doesn't have to be 3/4, but plywood will protect the concrete/blacktop. Wherever the skids go they will cause some damage.
A skid steer can get you close on grading (I sometimes use a tractor which has the same problem) but not being able to tilt the blade (bucket) limits you, especially on uneven ground. You can do the rest by hand with a rake if you get it close.

Ahhh, I thought skid steers have the ability to tilt but maybe that's the 'float' function which doesn't really keep it fixed at a tilted position. What about bobcats?

I'm still contemplating it. It seems like it could turn into a big ordeal trying to DIY with unfamiliar equipment. On the other hand, it seems like it's fairly 'simple' to learn how to operate. I don't know about mini excavators though - the thing that concerns me with those is the arm and potentially having it hit something we don't want it to and cause damage (like our fence, walls, and or pergola)