Crown-molding above kitchen cabinets

[Cozzmo]

Crown-molding above kitchen cabinets

I recently got a quote from a guy that rarely responds to his email for about $400/hour! Sheesh...
So, I am attempting to raise my DIY game and put the molding above my new cabinets myself. 
I am making a list of items and tools that I need to buy and am asking some of my DIY Mustachian SME's for advice. 

I plan on using the method from this DIY-Tutorial-Video
BUT...  In the video. He uses both a radial Table saw and miter saw and I have never used either. (I am quite handy though).
I will buy both if I must. But, to save both space and money... only want the minimum.

Harbor Freight and Amazon have made tools so much more available than they were in my youth.
I mean these are affordable and really cool!
WARRIOR 15 Amp, 10 in Table Saw $150
Also a
CHICAGO ELECTRIC POWER TOOLS 10 in. Sliding Compound Miter Saw $140

The trim that I have is 5" wide, (It will be 4" high and 3-3/16 deep when placed at it's final angle)
In other words, I have to cut it at unique angles (For me anyway), to make it work.

Any suggestions on which one of these two wood cutting devices would be best for the entire project?
Or do I need to buy both?

Any other advice is also welcome.
Thanks,
Chris

[Sibley]

You can do this with just a miter box if you wanted to. The fancy tools can make it easier to get the right angles, but the low tech will get you there too.

The biggest challenge is the angles - not just cutting them but also understanding what angle is needed where. If you have a new house where things are generally straight, level, plumb, etc that makes it a lot easier. Older houses where nothing is straight are much more challenging. For those, you tend to put the level away and eyeball things, because making it look right is what matters.

[nereo]

Crown-molding above kitchen cabinets

I recently got a quote from a guy that rarely responds to his email for about $400/hour! Sheesh...
So, I am attempting to raise my DIY game and put the molding above my new cabinets myself. 
I am making a list of items and tools that I need to buy and am asking some of my DIY Mustachian SME's for advice. 

I plan on using the method from this DIY-Tutorial-Video
BUT...  In the video. He uses both a radial Table saw and miter saw and I have never used either. (I am quite handy though).
I will buy both if I must. But, to save both space and money... only want the minimum.

Harbor Freight and Amazon have made tools so much more available than they were in my youth.
I mean these are affordable and really cool!
WARRIOR 15 Amp, 10 in Table Saw $150
Also a
CHICAGO ELECTRIC POWER TOOLS 10 in. Sliding Compound Miter Saw $140

The trim that I have is 5" wide, (It will be 4" high and 3-3/16 deep when placed at it's final angle)
In other words, I have to cut it at unique angles (For me anyway), to make it work.

Any suggestions on which one of these two wood cutting devices would be best for the entire project?
Or do I need to buy both?

Any other advice is also welcome.
Thanks,
Chris

As Sibley said, you can do this with a non-powered Miter Box saw if you want to.  That will take the least amount of money (< $20) and won't take up much shelf space when you are finished.  Literally every carpenter who installed crown molding in prior to about 1970 used something similar (often home-made) and many of them were fine craftsmen.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Stanley-14-5-in-Deluxe-Clamping-Miter-Box-with-14-in-Saw-20-600D/100034395

But I understand the appeal of power tools and have many.

For this I would skip over the table saw unless you've really been wanting a table saw for other projects (they are among the the most versatile of all power tools). I've done all my crown molding and baseboard trim with a non-sliding 10" compound miter saw similar to this:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-15-Amp-10-in-Corded-Dual-Bevel-Miter-Saw-with-LED-Cut-Line-Indicator-R4113/306939250\

I'd also recommend either a dremel (power) or a cove saw (hand-tool) which can be invaluable for carving out the backs of certain tricky, non-plumb areas that are common with older homes.

Other piece of advice:  Take some scrap pieces and cut the following on the saw, then write on them with sharpie the saw settings:  Inner 90º Corner (Left and Right side), Outer 90º corner (left and right side); Right side 45º joint; Left side 45º joint. 

That way you will know exactly which way to tilt your saw for each of those cuts, as you will often be doing it backwards and upside down from what you'd expect.  Saves a lot of headache in the long run and avoids wasted (and expensive!) crown molding. Good luck!!

[sonofsven]

You only need a miter saw, not a table saw . Those saws from HF are crap, in my experience, but I haven't used one in years.

The mantra to remember when cutting crown is "upside down and backwards". The tricky part is that the only part that lays flat against the cabinet is the little foot at the bottom inside of the crown. There is another corresponding flat area at the top inside of the crown that lays flat against the ceiling, which is often not flat, lol. Often above kitchen cabs the ceiling is much higher so the crown doesn't attach to it.

When you cut crown you can do it two different ways: flat on the table (the flat part of the miter saw) or tipped against the fence of the saw (the vertical part).

If you're cutting it tipped against the fence you place it upside down, so the top of the crown is on the table and the bottom of the crown is up on the fence. You want to make sure the crown always sits at this same exact angle so all the pieces match up. Some saws have accessoryy crown stops you can use, I usually make mine out of wood and screw them to wood on either side of the saw , and don't disturb them, or the saw.

When you're looking at the crown on the saw, the left  side of the crown is actually the right side when it's installed, hence " upside down and backwards". You set the angle of the saw to 45* and cut away.

To cut it flat on the table of the miter saw you need a compound saw. You set the angle to 31.6* (there is usually a preset notch) and the bevel at 33.9*. The base of the crown is towards you, the top flat against the fence.

I like to preassemble it above kitchen cabs because there's usually no ceiling for it to go up against.

I use little spring clamps to hold the pieces together, which are glued and pin nailed together, then I'll use a brad nailer to  atrach to the cabinets. A pin nailer shoots headless pins that don't really hold without glue.

https://www.rockler.com/  these are some spring clamps. They leave a tiny hole in the finished surface.

Make sure you mark the depth down the vertical face at the top of the cabinets so the run of crown is straight.
Don't go too crazy on the nails, it doesn't take much.

[Cozzmo]

Crown-molding above kitchen cabinets
<SNIP>
Any other advice is also welcome.
Thanks,
Chris

As Sibley said, you can do this with a non-powered Miter Box saw if you want to.  That will take the least amount of money (< $20) and won't take up much shelf space when you are finished.  Literally every carpenter who installed crown molding in prior to about 1970 used something similar (often home-made) and many of them were fine craftsmen.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Stanley-14-5-in-Deluxe-Clamping-Miter-Box-with-14-in-Saw-20-600D/100034395

But I understand the appeal of power tools and have many.

For this I would skip over the table saw unless you've really been wanting a table saw for other projects (they are among the the most versatile of all power tools). I've done all my crown molding and baseboard trim with a non-sliding 10" compound miter saw similar to this:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-15-Amp-10-in-Corded-Dual-Bevel-Miter-Saw-with-LED-Cut-Line-Indicator-R4113/306939250\

I'd also recommend either a dremel (power) or a cove saw (hand-tool) which can be invaluable for carving out the backs of certain tricky, non-plumb areas that are common with older homes.

Other piece of advice:  Take some scrap pieces and cut the following on the saw, then write on them with sharpie the saw settings:  Inner 90º Corner (Left and Right side), Outer 90º corner (left and right side); Right side 45º joint; Left side 45º joint. 

That way you will know exactly which way to tilt your saw for each of those cuts, as you will often be doing it backwards and upside down from what you'd expect.  Saves a lot of headache in the long run and avoids wasted (and expensive!) crown molding. Good luck!!

(I am the original poster).
I have a well used miter box and a Dremel tool, but I feel I would need to hold this large trim at the angle 4" high against the back wall and sawing this compound miter by hand while also keeping the wood steady.
Also I have some 45% angle cabinets as well as the 90%. (As you mentioned) that will take a bit of practice wood. before messing with my precious trim.
I once made a fireplace mantle with trim. (All glue and no nails). But this one makes me nervous. It is lots of cuts and I am allowed very little waste.
So I am leaning towards the miter saw.
Chris

[Cozzmo]

You only need a miter saw, not a table saw . Those saws from HF are crap, in my experience, but I haven't used one in years.

The mantra to remember when cutting crown is "upside down and backwards". The tricky part is that the only part that lays flat against the cabinet is the little foot at the bottom inside of the crown. There is another corresponding flat area at the top inside of the crown that lays flat against the ceiling, which is often not flat, lol. Often above kitchen cabs the ceiling is much higher so the crown doesn't attach to it.

When you cut crown you can do it two different ways: flat on the table (the flat part of the miter saw) or tipped against the fence of the saw (the vertical part).

If you're cutting it tipped against the fence you place it upside down, so the top of the crown is on the table and the bottom of the crown is up on the fence. You want to make sure the crown always sits at this same exact angle so all the pieces match up. Some saws have accessoryy crown stops you can use, I usually make mine out of wood and screw them to wood on either side of the saw , and don't disturb them, or the saw.

When you're looking at the crown on the saw, the left  side of the crown is actually the right side when it's installed, hence " upside down and backwards". You set the angle of the saw to 45* and cut away.

To cut it flat on the table of the miter saw you need a compound saw. You set the angle to 31.6* (there is usually a preset notch) and the bevel at 33.9*. The base of the crown is towards you, the top flat against the fence.

I like to preassemble it above kitchen cabs because there's usually no ceiling for it to go up against.

I use little spring clamps to hold the pieces together, which are glued and pin nailed together, then I'll use a brad nailer to  atrach to the cabinets. A pin nailer shoots headless pins that don't really hold without glue.

https://www.rockler.com/  these are some spring clamps. They leave a tiny hole in the finished surface.

Make sure you mark the depth down the vertical face at the top of the cabinets so the run of crown is straight.
Don't go too crazy on the nails, it doesn't take much.

I love this! It sounds like you have done this before.
I have basically decided to go with a Miter Saw for the versatility on the angle cuts.
BTW, Could you make the link to the rockler site a little more specific so I can see the "spring clamps"?
 I will add a brad nailer to my arsenal for this. But will still rely on mostly glue. Maybe LIKE THIS?
You are correct, "no ceiling for it to go up against".

Chris

[Telecaster]

You can buy used brand-name miter saws on Craigslist or FB Marketplace.   I see them all the time.   The Harbor Freight stuff is junk in my opinion.

[iris lily]

DH is the king of crown molding. Unfortunately, I know nothing and cannot help you.

But I am glad you are putting crown on your kitchen cabinets. Those without look so bare and unfinished to me, although a good look for contemporary cabinetry.

[lthenderson]

Any other advice is also welcome.

Are you painting the crown molding?

I ask, because I think as far as DIY home projects go, doing a good job on stained crown molding, is one of the harder tasks to do well. It takes some mental focus, skill/experience, and the proper tools for back cutting angles to do a good looking job. If you are painting it after installation, a paintable caulk can hide a multitude of sins (i.e. gaps in this case) and make it look decent.

It isn't clear to me whether the crown molding will be pressed against the vertical face of the cabinet and the ceiling, just the vertical face of the cabinet (with empty space above) or I've even seen it fastened to the horizontal top face of the cabinet (with empty space above). But one tip I didn't see mentioned anywhere above, if you can measure things out and then assemble the crown molding down on your workbench and then install (typically three pieces around a group of cabinets) it as a unit, you can get much better results than trying to attach all the pieces together over your head and trying to hold everything square. It also saves a lot of trips up and down a ladder which can help over the course of a full room of crown.

Another tip, though for me I don't like the look, one can buy inside and outside corners for crown molding that you put in place first and then you just have to make 90 degree cuts on the actual crown and put into place. It is much much more DIY friendly but not everyone likes the look.

[sonofsven]

You only need a miter saw, not a table saw . Those saws from HF are crap, in my experience, but I haven't used one in years.

The mantra to remember when cutting crown is "upside down and backwards". The tricky part is that the only part that lays flat against the cabinet is the little foot at the bottom inside of the crown. There is another corresponding flat area at the top inside of the crown that lays flat against the ceiling, which is often not flat, lol. Often above kitchen cabs the ceiling is much higher so the crown doesn't attach to it.

When you cut crown you can do it two different ways: flat on the table (the flat part of the miter saw) or tipped against the fence of the saw (the vertical part).

If you're cutting it tipped against the fence you place it upside down, so the top of the crown is on the table and the bottom of the crown is up on the fence. You want to make sure the crown always sits at this same exact angle so all the pieces match up. Some saws have accessoryy crown stops you can use, I usually make mine out of wood and screw them to wood on either side of the saw , and don't disturb them, or the saw.

When you're looking at the crown on the saw, the left  side of the crown is actually the right side when it's installed, hence " upside down and backwards". You set the angle of the saw to 45* and cut away.

To cut it flat on the table of the miter saw you need a compound saw. You set the angle to 31.6* (there is usually a preset notch) and the bevel at 33.9*. The base of the crown is towards you, the top flat against the fence.

I like to preassemble it above kitchen cabs because there's usually no ceiling for it to go up against.

I use little spring clamps to hold the pieces together, which are glued and pin nailed together, then I'll use a brad nailer to  atrach to the cabinets. A pin nailer shoots headless pins that don't really hold without glue.

https://www.rockler.com/  these are some spring clamps. They leave a tiny hole in the finished surface.

Make sure you mark the depth down the vertical face at the top of the cabinets so the run of crown is straight.
Don't go too crazy on the nails, it doesn't take much.

I love this! It sounds like you have done this before.
I have basically decided to go with a Miter Saw for the versatility on the angle cuts.
BTW, Could you make the link to the rockler site a little more specific so I can see the "spring clamps"?
 I will add a brad nailer to my arsenal for this. But will still rely on mostly glue. Maybe LIKE THIS?
You are correct, "no ceiling for it to go up against".

Chris

Yes,I've done lots of crown (I'm a carpenter)
Here's a better link for the spring clamps https://www.rockler.com/spring-miter-clamp-set
You can buy similar sets on Amazon. There's also a lighter version you can spring with your fingers, but it's difficult.
Here's a cheap HF pin nailer https://www.harborfreight.com/23-gauge-pin-nailer-64143.html?ccdenc=eyJjb2RlIjoiNTY3NzI0ODIiLCJza3UiOiI2NDE0MyIsImlzIjoiMjIuNDkifQ%3D%3D
A pin nailer is very useful for preassembling the crown while it's clamped as it doesn't have much kick to it. A brad nailer is a little more powerful, but it can work, too, with short nails.
When I preassmble it I do it on the ground, on a plank on horses, especially the outside corners as those are the most visible. Then lift it up in sections and glue, clamp, and pin the inside corners in place.
Get more material than you think you'll need, because you will screw up a bunch of the cuts until you get the hang of it.

[Cozzmo]

Any other advice is also welcome.

Are you painting the crown molding?
<SNIP>
It isn't clear to me whether the crown molding will be pressed against the vertical face of the cabinet and the ceiling, just the vertical face of the cabinet (with empty space above) or I've even seen it fastened to the horizontal top face of the cabinet (with empty space above). But one tip I didn't see mentioned anywhere above, if you can measure things out and then assemble the crown molding down on your workbench and then install
<SNIP>

Another tip, though for me I don't like the look, one can buy inside and outside corners for crown molding
<SNIP>

(Original Poster)
Thank you for the input.
The crown molding is pre-painted.
but if you look at the vid, I will be making the frame on the bench, then putting it on top with screws from underneath.
It will NOT touch the ceiling.
I never thought about the pre-made corners. but think I will just slog through as it is a challenge for me.
also, I have four inside 45% inverse angles that would be hard to find.
Thanks,
Chris

[Cozzmo]

Yes,I've done lots of crown (I'm a carpenter)
Here's a better link for the spring clamps https://www.rockler.com/spring-miter-clamp-set
You can buy similar sets on Amazon. There's also a lighter version you can spring with your fingers, but it's difficult.
Here's a cheap HF pin nailer https://www.harborfreight.com/23-gauge-pin-nailer-64143.html?ccdenc=eyJjb2RlIjoiNTY3NzI0ODIiLCJza3UiOiI2NDE0MyIsImlzIjoiMjIuNDkifQ%3D%3D
A pin nailer is very useful for preassembling the crown while it's clamped as it doesn't have much kick to it. A brad nailer is a little more powerful, but it can work, too, with short nails.
When I preassmble it I do it on the ground, on a plank on horses, especially the outside corners as those are the most visible. Then lift it up in sections and glue, clamp, and pin the inside corners in place.
Get more material than you think you'll need, because you will screw up a bunch of the cuts until you get the hang of it.

(Original Poster):
Oh wow... That is really helpful.
I would never have known about the spring clamps. I just youtubed them and that looks like a MUST!
Thank you.
BTW... Everything at Harbor F... is on 10% off today!
I was torn between an air or electric nailer. but, I will be in the garage with the trim work, so I think I will go with the air.
I like the one you posted.
Thanks,
Chris

[GilesMM]

For less than what you pay new Chinese stuff at HF, you can get a lightly used Dewalt compound miter saw off FB MP or Craigslist at a huge discount to the new price.


I prefer to buy used for stuff I don't plan to own for long or use a lot.  You can often sell stuff like this for as much as you paid for it.

[Dicey]

What style are your cabinets? Nothing worse than Shaker cabinets with fancy crown molding.

[Cozzmo]

What style are your cabinets? Nothing worse than Shaker cabinets with fancy crown molding.

Haha...
They are Shaker Cabinets with crown molding.
 :-)

They look something like this: https://s3.amazonaws.com/rtaproducts/category/elegant-white-shaker.jpg

[Cozzmo]

You can do this with just a miter box if you wanted to. The fancy tools can make it easier to get the right angles, but the low tech will get you there too.

I got a great HF radial saw on sale.
The compound cuts work great!
See LINK
You know 25 years ago something like that would have cost a full weeks pay, now it was only $129 after the discount. Just amazing.
I already did some trim with it (Ceiling, NOT cabinets) and to do that by with a hand saw and miter box would be crazy. Especially with the wierd angles that needed to go back and try to fine tune the cuts.
Definitely need a good cheap saw.
I did look on facebook Market Place, and they were all really dirty and used and they wanted almost new prices.. sheesh... Everyone want's so much.
I just gave away all my old cabinets and a matress on there. but when it comes to miter saws... wow...
You can apparently sell it for the same price you bought it for.   :-)

[Dicey]

What style are your cabinets? Nothing worse than Shaker cabinets with fancy crown molding.

Haha...
They are Shaker Cabinets with crown molding.
 :-)

They look something like this: https://s3.amazonaws.com/rtaproducts/category/elegant-white-shaker.jpg

Haha...I was assuming you were doing something like what's in the video. The style you just linked to is much more appropriate and way easier to do. You might not even need a mitre saw.* I'll dig up a picture of a house we did that used a similarly simple style and was easier to do than the style in the video.

*DH, the brains behind our operation, says you definitely need to use a mitre (or miter) saw. Just for fun, here's a picture of him hard at work.

[Dicey]

Photos as promised. We deliberately chose to mimic the door trim for continuity, to match the Shaker style, and to match the kitchen window trim opposite this bank of cabinets.

We also used this style to allow the molding to go all the way to the ceiling. We prefer this style because it adds drama and it prevents the breeding of dust bunnies on top of the cabinets. If the ceiling is out, it's a bit more forgiving.

[Sibley]

ooohhh, wall o' cabinets. I am jealous.

Looks good! Hope the rest of the project goes smoothly.

[Endo1030]

I used a jig like this:
https://www.amazon.com/General-Tools-881-Molding-Protractor/dp/B00L015T2C/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=20U8R0NF9E5KF&keywords=crown+molding+jig+for+miter+saw&qid=1702932128&sprefix=crown+molding+jig%2Caps%2C87&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

Avoids having to use the compound angle tilt on the miter saw.  It makes it easier to visualize what angle you're cutting.

One tip is:  You can use those scrap pieces with all the inside and outside corners pre-cut, and hold them up against your current piece before nailing the end to make sure it will close up.

[Dicey]

ooohhh, wall o' cabinets. I am jealous.

Looks good! Hope the rest of the project goes smoothly.

Lol, finished and sold for over asking in 2019.

The tricky part wasn't the cabinets, it was the island. In order to make the island work and create a two-chef kitchen, we did true custom cabinets. Worth the extra $$.

[Cozzmo]

I used a jig like this:
https://www ....

(Original poster)
Thank you, That is very cool!
Still on the fence if I need it or not, (I don't think it will help w the 45% angles).
I will start with practice pieces.
Thanks,
Chris

[Cozzmo]

You only need a miter saw, not a table saw . Those saws from HF are crap, in my experience, but I haven't used one in years.

When you're looking at the crown on the saw, the left  side of the crown is actually the right side when it's installed, hence " upside down and backwards". You set the angle of the saw to 45* and cut away.

To cut it flat on the table of the miter saw you need a compound saw. You set the angle to 31.6* (there is usually a preset notch) and the bevel at 33.9*. The base of the crown is towards you, the top flat against the fence.

I have a 52 degree spring angle. (your angles are for the standard 38 Spring angle).
So the saw angles will be different.
and with my trim being 5" I am taking my time geeking out about it.
I love that you brought that up though.
I like your first recommendation of just setting it against the fence and letting it fly at 45%
Although, being the geek that I am, I am challenged.
BTW:
I found this really COOL CALCULATOR for any trim angle geeks out there!
Thanks,
Chris