Craftsman vs Black+Decker drill?

[jeromedawg]

Hey all,

I'm looking for a general all-around drill (w/ keyless chuck) and was wondering what your thoughts are between these two:

http://www.sears.com/black-decker-9.6v-cordless-drill-driver/p-00930269000P?unitNo=0001378&sellerId=SEARS&prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-17586-nextec-12.0v-lithium-ion-drill-driver/p-00917586000P?unitNo=0001378&sellerId=SEARS&prdNo=2&blockNo=2&blockType=G2

The Craftsman seems like a good one especially considering it being lithium ion vs nicad plus lighter-weight and higher torque but I dunno... 1yr warranty vs 2yr on the B+D. I have a bunch of points to spend which should cover either of these but wanted to get some opinions.

[Spork]

Personally, I would want a little higher voltage than either of them.  I've not had great luck with drills less than about 18v.

[markum]

I have the craftsman one and it works very well for my light duty wood and plastic jobs. 

[jeromedawg]

Personally, I would want a little higher voltage than either of them.  I've not had great luck with drills less than about 18v.

Hm, how about this one? http://www.sears.com/craftsman-c3-19.2-volt-lithium-ion-3-8-in/p-00945200000P?plpSellerId=Sears&prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

[GilbertB]

16v and 2000mAh minimum, otherwise it's a toy.
Check the plastic, it's normally indicated in the battery slot.
It must be something with fibre glass in it, if it's shiny ABS, it will break when you drop it.

[jeromedawg]

16v and 2000mAh minimum, otherwise it's a toy.
Check the plastic, it's normally indicated in the battery slot.
It must be something with fibre glass in it, if it's shiny ABS, it will break when you drop it.

Any suggestions? What would be a mustachian buy as far as drills are concerned, in your opinion? Is it worth spending a good chunk of change on? Like $100+?

[GilbertB]

16v and 2000mAh minimum, otherwise it's a toy.
Check the plastic, it's normally indicated in the battery slot.
It must be something with fibre glass in it, if it's shiny ABS, it will break when you drop it.

Any suggestions? What would be a mustachian buy as far as drills are concerned, in your opinion? Is it worth spending a good chunk of change on? Like $100+?

http://www.tylertool.com/makita-xfd01rw-18v-lxt-2-0-ah-cordless-lithium-ion-1-2-in--drill-driver-kit/mktnxfd01rw,default,pd.html
109$, should have a similar offer at  Sears.
It's only 2000mAh, but it's small and light. I have a similar one that is great for work in tight places or overhead. If you are dry-walling the Grand Canyon, you can always get 4000mAh batteries.
It's incredible the amount of stuff that this little drill gets done.

If you need to do stuff with concrete, get a specific model, do-it-all drill tend to be very average at everything, fragile and expensive...

Edit: this is drill driver. The high speed is for making holes, the low speed (depending how you adjust the torque limiter) alllows from driving long framing screws to installing Ikea furniture.

Edit 2: once you have batteries and a charger, adding extra elements to your kit can ridiculously cheap: http://www.tylertool.com/factory-reconditioned-makita-lxph01z-r-18v-cordless-lxt-lithium-ion-1-2-in--hammer-driver-drill--bare-tool-/mktrlxph01z-r,default,pd.html

[nereo]

16v and 2000mAh minimum, otherwise it's a toy.
Check the plastic, it's normally indicated in the battery slot.
It must be something with fibre glass in it, if it's shiny ABS, it will break when you drop it.

Any suggestions? What would be a mustachian buy as far as drills are concerned, in your opinion? Is it worth spending a good chunk of change on? Like $100+?

Honestly, don't discount corded drills.  While needing an extention cord can be a PITA for some tasks, a $50 corded drill will outperform every cordless drill under $120, and you simply can't drill large diameter holes through thick stock with a cordless drill (example: cutting holes for drain pipes in 2-bys.
What do you need it for?  Where do you plan on using it and what's the largest bit you plan to use

[jeromedawg]

16v and 2000mAh minimum, otherwise it's a toy.
Check the plastic, it's normally indicated in the battery slot.
It must be something with fibre glass in it, if it's shiny ABS, it will break when you drop it.

Any suggestions? What would be a mustachian buy as far as drills are concerned, in your opinion? Is it worth spending a good chunk of change on? Like $100+?

http://www.tylertool.com/makita-xfd01rw-18v-lxt-2-0-ah-cordless-lithium-ion-1-2-in--drill-driver-kit/mktnxfd01rw,default,pd.html
109$, should have a similar offer at  Sears.
It's only 2000mAh, but it's small and light. I have a similar one that is great for work in tight places or overhead. If you are dry-walling the Grand Canyon, you can always get 4000mAh batteries.
It's incredible the amount of stuff that this little drill gets done.

If you need to do stuff with concrete, get a specific model, do-it-all drill tend to be very average at everything, fragile and expensive...

Edit: this is drill driver. The high speed is for making holes, the low speed (depending how you adjust the torque limiter) alllows from driving long framing screws to installing Ikea furniture.

What about something like this? http://www.homedepot.com/p/WEN-20-Volt-MAX-Lithium-Ion-3-8-in-Cordless-Drill-Driver-with-Bits-and-Carrying-Bag-49120/300676605

Never heard of WEN before but it seems they make a lot of drill presses too.

[nereo]

Never heard of WEN before but it seems they make a lot of drill presses too.

WEN is a low-brand.  What I call "disposable tools" - not very durable and not particularly accurate (particularly their saws).  Fine if you're just need it for a rough job, but certainly not in the BIFL category.

[jeromedawg]

Never heard of WEN before but it seems they make a lot of drill presses too.

WEN is a low-brand.  What I call "disposable tools" - not very durable and not particularly accurate (particularly their saws).  Fine if you're just need it for a rough job, but certainly not in the BIFL category.

Thanks... Dewalt seems solid no? Would you go with that or a higher-priced B+D or Craftsman C3?

Any of these?
http://www.sears.com/dewalt-dcd771c2-20v-max-cordless-lithium-ion-1-2/p-00927452000P?sellerId=SEARS&prdNo=12&blockNo=12&blockType=G12
http://www.sears.com/dewalt-18-v-1-2-in-13mm-cordless-compact/p-00935314000P?sellerId=SEARS&prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1
http://www.sears.com/black-decker-20v-max-lithium-drill-driver/p-00946178000P?sellerId=SEARS&prdNo=8&blockNo=8&blockType=G8
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-c3-lithium-ion-compact-drill-kit-powered/p-00935704000P?sellerId=SEARS&prdNo=10&blockNo=10&blockType=G10

[GilbertB]

16v and 2000mAh minimum, otherwise it's a toy.
Check the plastic, it's normally indicated in the battery slot.
It must be something with fibre glass in it, if it's shiny ABS, it will break when you drop it.

Any suggestions? What would be a mustachian buy as far as drills are concerned, in your opinion? Is it worth spending a good chunk of change on? Like $100+?

Honestly, don't discount corded drills.  While needing an extention cord can be a PITA for some tasks, a $50 corded drill will outperform every cordless drill under $120, and you simply can't drill large diameter holes through thick stock with a cordless drill (example: cutting holes for drain pipes in 2-bys.
What do you need it for?  Where do you plan on using it and what's the largest bit you plan to use

Personally, I use both as each has advantages...
For example for framing on masonry, I use a big corded impact drill to do the anchor holes, a corded medium drill to drill the wooden frames and a cordless to drive the anchors/screws.
It crazy how much clutter/speed can be gained using the right tools.
I never use corded for furniture assembly.

[nick663]

16v and 2000mAh minimum, otherwise it's a toy.
Check the plastic, it's normally indicated in the battery slot.
It must be something with fibre glass in it, if it's shiny ABS, it will break when you drop it.

Any suggestions? What would be a mustachian buy as far as drills are concerned, in your opinion? Is it worth spending a good chunk of change on? Like $100+?

Honestly, don't discount corded drills.  While needing an extention cord can be a PITA for some tasks, a $50 corded drill will outperform every cordless drill under $120, and you simply can't drill large diameter holes through thick stock with a cordless drill (example: cutting holes for drain pipes in 2-bys.
What do you need it for?  Where do you plan on using it and what's the largest bit you plan to use

I'm a fan of corded drills over cordless.  My experience is the lower end cordless drills are that they are always dead when you need them for an unplanned project and the batteries are junk within 5 years.

If you can have both there are advantages to cordless but if you only have 1 in the house, I would go corded.

[nereo]

Never heard of WEN before but it seems they make a lot of drill presses too.

WEN is a low-brand.  What I call "disposable tools" - not very durable and not particularly accurate (particularly their saws).  Fine if you're just need it for a rough job, but certainly not in the BIFL category.

Thanks... Dewalt seems solid no? Would you go with that or a higher-priced B+D or Craftsman C3?

I like DeWalt - especially when they are on sale.  FYI, DeWalt is owned by B+D, and marketed as its 'contractor grade line ' of tools.  I used to like Craftsman more, but my understanding is that they've cut a lot of corners having tools made overseas and now it seems no better (but probably no worse than) other brands like Ryobi.
Speaking of which, for "light, homeowner-type use" i think Ryobi tools are a good balance of price and performance. 
Then again I see tools as a BIFL (or at lesat BIF-a-really-long-time) investment, so I tend to spend a bit more and keep it for decades. YMMV

[jeromedawg]

Never heard of WEN before but it seems they make a lot of drill presses too.

WEN is a low-brand.  What I call "disposable tools" - not very durable and not particularly accurate (particularly their saws).  Fine if you're just need it for a rough job, but certainly not in the BIFL category.

Thanks... Dewalt seems solid no? Would you go with that or a higher-priced B+D or Craftsman C3?

I like DeWalt - especially when they are on sale.  FYI, DeWalt is owned by B+D, and marketed as its 'contractor grade line ' of tools.  I used to like Craftsman more, but my understanding is that they've cut a lot of corners having tools made overseas and now it seems no better (but probably no worse than) other brands like Ryobi.
Speaking of which, for "light, homeowner-type use" i think Ryobi tools are a good balance of price and performance. 
Then again I see tools as a BIFL (or at lesat BIF-a-really-long-time) investment, so I tend to spend a bit more and keep it for decades. YMMV

I have a DeWalt quick-release drill/screwdriver my dad gave me and it's great. NiCad and doesn't hold much of a charge but works well otherwise. Also have a smaller Hitachi screwdriver/drill and it's nice. I may just ask my dad if he has any keyless chuck drills LOL.

[Spork]

Never heard of WEN before but it seems they make a lot of drill presses too.

WEN is a low-brand.  What I call "disposable tools" - not very durable and not particularly accurate (particularly their saws).  Fine if you're just need it for a rough job, but certainly not in the BIFL category.

Thanks... Dewalt seems solid no? Would you go with that or a higher-priced B+D or Craftsman C3?

I like DeWalt - especially when they are on sale.  FYI, DeWalt is owned by B+D, and marketed as its 'contractor grade line ' of tools.  I used to like Craftsman more, but my understanding is that they've cut a lot of corners having tools made overseas and now it seems no better (but probably no worse than) other brands like Ryobi.
Speaking of which, for "light, homeowner-type use" i think Ryobi tools are a good balance of price and performance. 
Then again I see tools as a BIFL (or at lesat BIF-a-really-long-time) investment, so I tend to spend a bit more and keep it for decades. YMMV

FWIW: Craftsman is also made by Stanley Black & Decker now.  (It used to be Ryobi.)

It has become really overly confusing in the last several years.  One company will make 5 separate brands and within each brand, there will be 5 product lines -- all that look extremely similar but often with wildly varying specs.

I bought a cordless drill about 6-8 months back and poured over the various review/testing sites.  I settled for upper mid-range instead of the higher end professional (Hitachi/Hilti/Milwaukee/Makita).  I ended up getting a Rigid based on a few testing sites and their battery replacement warranty.  (But...  WILDLY varying results with models that are very similar... so you have to buy the exact model tested.)

Note that even the high end branded tools often have some low end stinker models.

My 2 cents is to do what I did:  Google for cordless drill review/tests.  Some of them will be obvious shill sites intended to sell a particular brand.  Look for reviews that are unbiased or by reputable reviewers like consumer reports/popular mechanics/etc.  They will actually test them by seeing how many holes/screws they can drive on a charge, etc.  Read several varying reviews and find where they agree... then head towards those drills.

Like me, you probably don't need the high end stuff.  Look for "best value" or 4 out of 5 stars.

Things you may want to look for:
* 1/2 chuck.  The 3/8 chuck will limit what bits you can use
* amp hours - more is better.
* battery warranty -  this is the thing that's going to end the life of your drill.  Often replacing the battery costs more than a drill.  (You can rebuild them yourself, but you really need a little spot welder to do it right.)
* volts - more is better to a point.  Every time you add 1.3-1-5 volts, you're adding a battery cell, so more also means "heavier"
* hammer drill option - sure comes in handy sometimes
* there seems to be a trend to package a Drill/driver with a plain, lower powered driver.  Sometimes this is only a few bucks more and ... it does come in handy.  You can swap out drilling/screwing without swapping bits (or minimally, you're getting an extra battery).

[jeromedawg]

Never heard of WEN before but it seems they make a lot of drill presses too.

WEN is a low-brand.  What I call "disposable tools" - not very durable and not particularly accurate (particularly their saws).  Fine if you're just need it for a rough job, but certainly not in the BIFL category.

Thanks... Dewalt seems solid no? Would you go with that or a higher-priced B+D or Craftsman C3?

I like DeWalt - especially when they are on sale.  FYI, DeWalt is owned by B+D, and marketed as its 'contractor grade line ' of tools.  I used to like Craftsman more, but my understanding is that they've cut a lot of corners having tools made overseas and now it seems no better (but probably no worse than) other brands like Ryobi.
Speaking of which, for "light, homeowner-type use" i think Ryobi tools are a good balance of price and performance. 
Then again I see tools as a BIFL (or at lesat BIF-a-really-long-time) investment, so I tend to spend a bit more and keep it for decades. YMMV

FWIW: Craftsman is also made by Stanley Black & Decker now.  (It used to be Ryobi.)

It has become really overly confusing in the last several years.  One company will make 5 separate brands and within each brand, there will be 5 product lines -- all that look extremely similar but often with wildly varying specs.

I bought a cordless drill about 6-8 months back and poured over the various review/testing sites.  I settled for upper mid-range instead of the higher end professional (Hitachi/Hilti/Milwaukee/Makita).  I ended up getting a Rigid based on a few testing sites and their battery replacement warranty.  (But...  WILDLY varying results with models that are very similar... so you have to buy the exact model tested.)

Note that even the high end branded tools often have some low end stinker models.

My 2 cents is to do what I did:  Google for cordless drill review/tests.  Some of them will be obvious shill sites intended to sell a particular brand.  Look for reviews that are unbiased or by reputable reviewers like consumer reports/popular mechanics/etc.  They will actually test them by seeing how many holes/screws they can drive on a charge, etc.  Read several varying reviews and find where they agree... then head towards those drills.

Like me, you probably don't need the high end stuff.  Look for "best value" or 4 out of 5 stars.

Things you may want to look for:
* 1/2 chuck.  The 3/8 chuck will limit what bits you can use
* amp hours - more is better.
* battery warranty -  this is the thing that's going to end the life of your drill.  Often replacing the battery costs more than a drill.  (You can rebuild them yourself, but you really need a little spot welder to do it right.)
* volts - more is better to a point.  Every time you add 1.3-1-5 volts, you're adding a battery cell, so more also means "heavier"
* hammer drill option - sure comes in handy sometimes
* there seems to be a trend to package a Drill/driver with a plain, lower powered driver.  Sometimes this is only a few bucks more and ... it does come in handy.  You can swap out drilling/screwing without swapping bits (or minimally, you're getting an extra battery).

Thanks! What price range did you end up with your Ridgid?

[Spork]

Never heard of WEN before but it seems they make a lot of drill presses too.

WEN is a low-brand.  What I call "disposable tools" - not very durable and not particularly accurate (particularly their saws).  Fine if you're just need it for a rough job, but certainly not in the BIFL category.

Thanks... Dewalt seems solid no? Would you go with that or a higher-priced B+D or Craftsman C3?

I like DeWalt - especially when they are on sale.  FYI, DeWalt is owned by B+D, and marketed as its 'contractor grade line ' of tools.  I used to like Craftsman more, but my understanding is that they've cut a lot of corners having tools made overseas and now it seems no better (but probably no worse than) other brands like Ryobi.
Speaking of which, for "light, homeowner-type use" i think Ryobi tools are a good balance of price and performance. 
Then again I see tools as a BIFL (or at lesat BIF-a-really-long-time) investment, so I tend to spend a bit more and keep it for decades. YMMV

FWIW: Craftsman is also made by Stanley Black & Decker now.  (It used to be Ryobi.)

It has become really overly confusing in the last several years.  One company will make 5 separate brands and within each brand, there will be 5 product lines -- all that look extremely similar but often with wildly varying specs.

I bought a cordless drill about 6-8 months back and poured over the various review/testing sites.  I settled for upper mid-range instead of the higher end professional (Hitachi/Hilti/Milwaukee/Makita).  I ended up getting a Rigid based on a few testing sites and their battery replacement warranty.  (But...  WILDLY varying results with models that are very similar... so you have to buy the exact model tested.)

Note that even the high end branded tools often have some low end stinker models.

My 2 cents is to do what I did:  Google for cordless drill review/tests.  Some of them will be obvious shill sites intended to sell a particular brand.  Look for reviews that are unbiased or by reputable reviewers like consumer reports/popular mechanics/etc.  They will actually test them by seeing how many holes/screws they can drive on a charge, etc.  Read several varying reviews and find where they agree... then head towards those drills.

Like me, you probably don't need the high end stuff.  Look for "best value" or 4 out of 5 stars.

Things you may want to look for:
* 1/2 chuck.  The 3/8 chuck will limit what bits you can use
* amp hours - more is better.
* battery warranty -  this is the thing that's going to end the life of your drill.  Often replacing the battery costs more than a drill.  (You can rebuild them yourself, but you really need a little spot welder to do it right.)
* volts - more is better to a point.  Every time you add 1.3-1-5 volts, you're adding a battery cell, so more also means "heavier"
* hammer drill option - sure comes in handy sometimes
* there seems to be a trend to package a Drill/driver with a plain, lower powered driver.  Sometimes this is only a few bucks more and ... it does come in handy.  You can swap out drilling/screwing without swapping bits (or minimally, you're getting an extra battery).

Thanks! What price range did you end up with your Ridgid?

I forget exactly... but I think it was about $200 for a drill and a smaller driver. I believe I also bought "last years model" right when a new model came out, which made it cheaper.

[Spork]

oh... and +1 to some of the advice on "don't discount the corded models". 

Drills are the one thing I will buy cordless.  But I've been through probably 5-6 cordless drills over the last 35 or so years (plus bought or rebuilt batteries when mine petered out.)  HOWEVER, I still have the corded drill I bought in high school.  It still works like a champ.  And I've abused the hell out of it.

[jeromedawg]

So my dad's bringing a corded Bosch and a cordless 14.4v DeWalt that he has (i think these are spares... he has accumulated so much stuff it's ridiculous). That'll save me some in the meantime. I wasn't initially looking for anything super fancy. Just want something occasionally to drill holes in wood and drywall but mostly for screwing stuff in and also dryer vent cleaning

[paddedhat]

I would avoid craftsman based on a few factors. First, even when Sears was at their peak, they subcontracted their power tool production. They had no issue with leaving a quality tool manufacturer at the end of a contract, and have the "same" tool built by somebody else, who may build shit tools,  to save a few cents a unit. Second, Sears worked hard at deviating for industry standard just enough to fuck the consumer. Need a part for a Dewalt or B&D power tool, it's cheap and easy. The Same part for a Sears product is often neither cheap or easy. Finally, Sears has been swirling the bowl for years, and now admits the obvious, they are unlikely to survive much longer. Now they sold their brands to others, but who knows what that means in the long run. Will Stanley/B&D decide to get serious about quality with their Craftsman brand and become a worthy competitor to Bosch, Makita, etc.... or will they build Ryobi grade shit and hope they can trade on a storied brand name? I would put money on them building mediocre "Craftsman" products and hoping that they can sell to homeowners.  I have no interest in getting caught up in that, never did have any interest in their power tools, and absent some seriously glowing feedback from professional users and reviewers, I doubt I ever will. In my shop full of tools, the name Craftsman is strictly limited to wrenches, sockets, and related hand tools, which is a pretty good policy to follow. 

[Drifterrider]

I haven't read the whole thread but:

For hobby work or project work (project work is as long as the tool makes it through the whole project), my first look is Harbor Freight.

I don't like battery tools, I prefer corded.  They don't seem to have the problems battery tools seem to have.

For professional duration work, look to step up ($$$$$$$$$) to professional quality tools.

The above information is worth exactly what you paid for it.

[Cache_Stash]

Neither.  Craftsmen for hand tools only.  Black and Decker - NEVER.

I had a few Rigids - burned out the motors on them.  I like Rigid tools, I just didn't have luck with their cordless drills.

I now own a Bosch.  Can't go wrong with this brand.  Well built and will last DIY tasks a lifetime. 

I tend to buy things only one time.  Buying crap costs more money in the long run.

[samspamshir]

I would recommend Masterforce brand from Menards, if you have a Menards nearby:

https://www.menards.com/main/tools-hardware/power-tools-accessories/power-tool-combo-kits/masterforce-reg-flexpower-reg-20-volt-lithium-ion-cordless-1-2-drill-impact-driver-2-tool-combo-kit/p-1464215430266-c-9066.htm?tid=6083719907495102870&bargainStoreId=3268

This is a drill and impact driver combo set. It goes on sale for $99 fairly often. $50 per tool is pretty darn good, plus, comes with 2 batteries, charger and a carrying bag. I've had the drill for over 5 years and I use it weekly. Dropped a few times too and it still works well. The impact driver works great with T25 torx screws.

[jeromedawg]

I would recommend Masterforce brand from Menards, if you have a Menards nearby:

https://www.menards.com/main/tools-hardware/power-tools-accessories/power-tool-combo-kits/masterforce-reg-flexpower-reg-20-volt-lithium-ion-cordless-1-2-drill-impact-driver-2-tool-combo-kit/p-1464215430266-c-9066.htm?tid=6083719907495102870&bargainStoreId=3268

This is a drill and impact driver combo set. It goes on sale for $99 fairly often. $50 per tool is pretty darn good, plus, comes with 2 batteries, charger and a carrying bag. I've had the drill for over 5 years and I use it weekly. Dropped a few times too and it still works well. The impact driver works great with T25 torx screws.

Whoa, those look like Hitachi drills! Too bad though since I don't have a Menards nearby (on the West coast)

[Midwest]

I would recommend Masterforce brand from Menards, if you have a Menards nearby:

https://www.menards.com/main/tools-hardware/power-tools-accessories/power-tool-combo-kits/masterforce-reg-flexpower-reg-20-volt-lithium-ion-cordless-1-2-drill-impact-driver-2-tool-combo-kit/p-1464215430266-c-9066.htm?tid=6083719907495102870&bargainStoreId=3268

This is a drill and impact driver combo set. It goes on sale for $99 fairly often. $50 per tool is pretty darn good, plus, comes with 2 batteries, charger and a carrying bag. I've had the drill for over 5 years and I use it weekly. Dropped a few times too and it still works well. The impact driver works great with T25 torx screws.

Whoa, those look like Hitachi drills! Too bad though since I don't have a Menards nearby (on the West coast)

Home depot has a similar deal with Ryobi.  Realizing that Ryobi is not in the same league as dewalt or a commercial tool, the nice thing about ryobi is their 18v batteries work in a ton of tools.  We have a weed eater and blower in addition to the drills, saws etc.  Batteries are interchangeable.  As a homeowner, the batteries die before the tools. 

With regard to the masterforce, are they similar quality to ryobi or better?  i would assume similar, but only because both are house brands.