Considering building a Tiny House (on a trailer)

[Landor n Stella]

I've been really interested in the tiny house movement, and I think I finally have Landor convinced that I could build a tiny house on a trailer, a la Tumbleweed. http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/products/walden/ I like that we could build this ourselves, and also gain housing while not signing a mortgage.

The only problem is that I have never built anything more complicated than a bookshelf, and my renovation skills mostly rely on having my father-in-law around to ask a hundred questions. So, last weekend I went through all of our bins of tools and organized the garage into a workshop. I have a surprising amount of tools, for never having done a major project. Now my plan is to gain some experience by building a series of smaller projects first, like playhouses for nieces/nephews or a doghouse. I am hoping that this will give me some confidence to tackle a Tumbleweed-style house.

Is anyone else building a Tumbleweed? Or a tiny house?

[arebelspy]

I like the idea of a tiny house.

The condo the wife and I live in is 400 sqft, and it's more than we need.  Our previous place was smaller (200-300 sqft, not 100% sure, but definitely quite a bit smaller).

But I really don't get the "on the trailer" tiny house concept. 

At that point, why not just buy a small, used RV?  Cheaper, likely more amenities, more flexible, and more resale options if your circumstances change.

[Landor n Stella]

On the trailer part is because of needing to relocate at some point in the future. Also, there are minimum standards for constructing a permanent structure for houses (per code).
I've thought about the RV idea, but there are several reasons that I don't want to go that direction. First, I want the experience of building something myself. Buying something can't replace the experience I would have gotten. Second, RVs are notoriously under-insulated and crappily built. I know there are good manufacturers out there, but from the ones I have found I cannot afford them, even used. If I am going to live in a tiny house crappily built, I want it to be because I did the crappy job. That way I can blame no one but myself. :-) Third, building it myself allows me to save money by hunting down building materials from craigslist or other sources, and work at the pace that I have money/time available. And it gives me something to look forward to as I drone through the weeks as a worker bee until we are FI.

[gooki]

I was going to suggest doing a shipping container conversion (all the structural work is done for you).

But that tumbleweed home is nice. You'll do fine if you follow a proper set of plans.

For myself I'm looking more at a bus conversion. Similar size as a shipping container but I avoid a lot of the building code stuff.

I really like that the tumbleweed home has a second level for sleeping.

[Parizade]

Hi L&S, I'm glad to see this on the DIY board. I am also interested in tiny houses and started a thread over on the Real Estate board. You  might want to read through that thread, there are some very interesting posts about day-to-day living in a small house.

I found this video very inspiring:
http://youtu.be/UB-MhZkYVo8
haven't had time to read through her blog though:
http://forgeaheadpuppetproductions.blogspot.com/

Most tiny home businesses offer workshops to help people learn the skills they need, you can always go that route if you need some confidence-building. I found a fellow in my area who builds tiny homes and offers classes, I'm thinking of signing up for one of those.

[ErikZ]

Those places look nice, but they're bachelor survival shelters. No place for company to hang out. Or enough room to sit and have dinner together. Let alone enough room for kids...these 6'6' ceilings are ridiculous.

I'd say 400sqft would be the minimum.

[Parizade]

ErikZ, Tiny Tumbleweed has houses up to 3 bedrooms and over 800 sq ft. That's plenty of room for entertaining and raising children.

I am a single woman who has already raised her family, and the tiny homes look perfect for me. I'm actually thinking about building the Squidget Pop Top:

http://www.thesquidget.com/

Then I could travel all over and live anywhere for as long as I want.

[ErikZ]

I may have come off as too negative. Probably because I didn't mention most of the positive stuff I learned from looking into these.

1. It's amazing how much quality you can put into a smaller house.
2. Looking at these forces me to think "What do I really need"? (I currently have a 733sqft condo)
3. It's gotten me back into examining "Off-Grid living."

Now I'm wondering how difficult it would be to make a 3 story house like this. Make each floor 400sq feet and modular.

[Bakari]

Those places look nice, but they're bachelor survival shelters. No place for company to hang out. Or enough room to sit and have dinner together. Let alone enough room for kids...these 6'6' ceilings are ridiculous.

I'd say 400sqft would be the minimum.

It all depends on the floor plan.  I've had dinner parties in my 250sq ft.  And I know people with 2 bdrm trailers (less than 250sf) that raised a kid (or occasionally even two), although I admit I'd want closer to 400sf if I had a kid.

400sq ft should be the maximum.  At least in CA, thats the limit where it is still defined as an RV, instead of a mobile home, which means if you are parked on land you own you get taxed for an improved lot, instead of a house.  Any covered porches or interior lofts don't count towards the square footage.

Low ceilings are great!  Unless you happen to be 6'7"  I see no reason to have higher ceiling than 6'6".  If they were, how the heck would you reach the ceiling?
Why would you want to have to break out a ladder everytime you need to change a bulb, open a vent, crank up the roof antenna, or access the items you keep stored up there (like the magnet block that holds my kitchen knives!  Yes, I keep knives on the ceiling)
And, with low ceilings, you can have less bright light bulbs, since light intensity decreases with the square of the distance.  Thats how I can light my house with a couple $10 1-watt LED bulbs.
Plus, if you use heat or A/C, the total cubic volume of air affects how hard they have to work to reach a given temperature.  Lower cubic volume of home, lower utility bills.
Disadvantages?  None I've found so far (in about 10 years).

If I ever build a non-moveable home (and building codes allow) it would definitely have ceilings I can reach.

[moneymohawk]

Bakari, I like the mental picture of your home I'm getting (knives on the ceiling, led lightbulbs ;-).  Would you ever consider posting some photos of it for us?

Interesting about the 400 sq ft thing in CA...

[Bakari]

I'll do you one better, and already have a fairly popular video of my house on YouTube :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJc8973GURk

(Note, I did that interview with no prep and no notes, so I got a few details wrong.  The trailer is 250sf, not 150, and my monthly water use is about the same as the average US home uses in a week, not a day.  Also, it turned out my electric meter was slow.  My most recent - accurate - bill was for 149kWh, $13)

Also, there are recent pictures of my garden on the last step here:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Large-Self-Watering-Planter-made-from-recycled-mat/

[moneymohawk]

Great video!  Thanks for the inside look.

[firefighterjeff]

We discussed this at length over at ERE. I was willing to assist one of them in building one but his life took a drastic change before we could do it. I think we had 7 or 8 people that were willing to get together and knock one of these out. I think shawn was wanting to build one also, he lives in Indiana. I live in Ky and this group over here seems pretty hands-on so maybe we could get something done?




http://forum.earlyretirementextreme.com/topic.php?id=1418

[Landor n Stella]

We discussed this at length over at ERE. I was willing to assist one of them in building one but his life took a drastic change before we could do it. I think we had 7 or 8 people that were willing to get together and knock one of these out. I think shawn was wanting to build one also, he lives in Indiana. I live in Ky and this group over here seems pretty hands-on so maybe we could get something done?




http://forum.earlyretirementextreme.com/topic.php?id=1418

That thread is great, firefighterjeff. I started over at ERE last year (read a lot, rarely posted) and that's how I found MMM. I love that the MMM community is quite hands-on, and if any community could do it I think this one could! Here's the research and stuff that I have been able to dig up since settling down and getting more serious about this idea. Some of my ideas kind of tag-on to some of the discussions on the thread over at ERE that you posted:

1. I have a undergrad degree in architecture, and while litigation is rampant these days I don't think Jay is going to sue anyone for building a house on a trailer, as long as they do not look exactly like his. I have done some designs (just messing around, nothing serious yet) and there is more room for interpretation and making modifications to houses on trailers than some in the thread were proposing. If someone in a group that we got together were wanting to build a true Tumbleweed I would suggest that they purchase the plans. That's all I am going to say on this topic.

2. South Bend and some areas in Indiana are heavy with RV manufacturing, and I was able to find a lead on a brand new tandem axle trailer for $1550 that is only an hour or two away from me. If they got an order for 7-8 of them, I bet the per-price cost would go down some.

3. I also found a guy on craigslist near me (north central Indiana) who sells new 2x4's for less than a dollar each. 7' stock he sells for 10 cents, 8' stock for 50 cents. He has windows and sheet metal and some of the other stuff we would need also, all for pennies compared to the big-box home store prices. I'm headed up to his place this weekend with a friend to check it out and see what he has. I can report back if it's as good as it sounds!

4. Barn wood- there are lots of old barns in Indiana and people give the wood away for free if you come and disassemble it. Being careful and not using the old stuff in any structural way, it would be great material after a run through a planer for siding or flooring.

5. If we were to get a group together who could help with building, I could probably find a location that would be suitable for us to build near me and near the materials from the guy I mentioned in #3. A friend also owns a property with a lake and some amenities that he uses as a campground, and out of towners could stay there. Or I am willing to travel, KY isn't far from me. But I'm still working full time, so I would have to plan it with vacation days. :-(

6. I really think it is possible to build these types of houses for less than $5,000, if you can get the trailer for less and you plan and gather materials from sources like the ones I've listed here. I have already started down this road, and I was just planning on building one in our rental driveway slowly over time. But if there is a group, I would be willing to join it.

7. I have connections at my undergrad school that might be excited to use this idea of a house on a trailer as an assignment in the studio for the students. I would have been excited to do a design for this as an undergrad. If there is a group, and we can wait until school starts back up, we might get quite a few designs this way if there is interest in more custom designs. The experience would be great for the students, because it incorporates every aspect of technical building (how to solve electrical, sewer, water, and insulation issues?) as well as allowing some fun in the design.

I know there is more in my head about this topic, but I have typed enough for today. Feedback and thoughts on my ideas are welcome!

~Stella

[elai]

When I was researching a housing option like this, I narrowed down to an airstream travel trailer.  They're high quality, last a very long time, look decent, have good resale value and are well designed. They're more expensive than your typical travel trailer, but they're actually usable. For housing, it's almost cheaper than anything you'll ever get. With a travel trailer, you can separate your propulsion method with your house, important if you have an engine failure.

[firefighterjeff]

@Stella
I like your thought process on the $5,000 range. I priced it at $12,000 off the shelf paying retail, but if you were willing to recycle and not afraid of a little sweat then you could do it much cheaper. The only downside would be is that it would take longer to build and you will need some room to store all of the materials and a way to discard what you can't use. Recycled material comes with its own problems but is still a good resource.

And the school is a great idea too.  Have you considered a design contest with the winner to be built at the school? That would create some excitement I would think. Plus you would get a house that would be completely custom and Tumbleweed can kiss your behind. 

I like the thought of affordable housing that anyone can build, but currently the price points for a turn-key tiny house are ridiculous. I mean, why would you pay $50,000 for a 300 square foot home? That doesn't have running water or a real toilet.  However,  paying 2 or 3 thousand and learning that carpentry, plumbing, and electrical aren't magical and that most people are fully capable of learning how to do these skills would be worth it.

[spider1204]

About the idea of building a tiny house in KY, I've been thinking about living in a tiny house a lot lately as well.  I'll be moving down to Lexington, KY for a job soon and would love to get involved with this kind of a project.  Although, I don't really have any experience with construction of any kind, or what would go into things I would very excited about learning and helping out.

[firefighterjeff]

@Spider

I still think it would be a good project for the person wanting to live in one of these. Unfortunately, there haven't been many that actually want to fund and build one of these. Most are like you who would love the opportunity to learn building skills, but ultimately there has to be an end buyer. I think a lot of romantic notions go through peoples heads when they see these houses, understandably, but when the time comes to make that lifestyle change it throws a lot of people off.
Anyway, when I start my next project I'll send you notice if you are interested in learning some skills. Lex isn't too far from me.

[ErikZ]

I haven't done any market research, but I would think that the vast majority of people would be unprepared to deal with a tiny house.

I could see a market for someone buying a piece of mountain land, and wanting to drop in a small, high quality tinyhome. I see bare bones shacks and big expensive homes, so I think there's a market for something in between.

[Bakari]

The same person who interviewed me has come out with an entire documentary devoted specifically to people who live in tiny houses:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDcVrVA4bSQ

Its not as rare as some might think...


I just found out from the comment section that I was the first person in a tiny home she interviewed!  And, I am apparently going to be in her next documentary, which she is working on now.  Its more or less about Mustachianism, about work and money and freedom and quality of life.

[Landor n Stella]

I'm still very interested in a tiny home, but last week we embarked on a very different housing adventure for now. We found a very mistreated house for sale just 2 blocks from where I work and where Landor goes to school for $7,000. We bought it last Friday and we are going to spend the next few months putting it all back together. :-)  If there is a tiny house build in KY, please post it here and I would love to come down and join in!! I would be able to donate a weekend of my time (I still work full-time). And if there is interest in a design competition, I would be willing to use my contacts at the college to start the ball rolling with that. You can PM me for my personal email if there is traction behind any of this.

And, if you are ever in my area (north of Indianapolis) I will soon have a debt-free house you are welcome to stop by and see! Follow my thread on the $7,000 house to see the progress. :-)

~Stella

[spider1204]

@Firefighterjeff Yes, thank you for keeping me notice as I would definitely like to learn some new skills.  Also, I'm not at the point yet where I have the extra money for funding the building of a tiny house but do plan to be there within a year, and am very serious about wanting to live in one.  The main issue that would need to be worked out though would be finding a place to park it legally or semi legally.  That always seems to be the issue with tiny houses though.

@Landor n Stella
I actually saw your post a while ago about that house and started looking into that idea as well, there definitely seems to be some options in my area, and will definitely be following your journey closely.  Perhaps the two problems can be combined and a cheap fixer up house can be bought and fixed up, then a tiny house can be parked on the land while the house is rented out.

Either way, as much as I like my landlord, I hate seeing my rent check go to pay somebody else's mortgage : p