Author Topic: Can this ceiling be saved?  (Read 1720 times)

getsorted

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Can this ceiling be saved?
« on: August 26, 2023, 11:17:44 AM »
I took down a very saggy and dingy drop panel ceiling and the plasterboard underneath is very cracked like this all over. I don't think this is plaster and lath; I believe it's just some kind of late-40s plasterboard screwed to the ceiling joists. (I could check but it's 100 degrees outside and I don't even want to know how hot the attic is).

Do I need to drywall/panel over this, or is taping and patching fine? If patching is enough, what products do I use?

curious_george

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Re: Can this ceiling be saved?
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2023, 06:18:53 PM »
Having messed around with hanging new drywall on ceilings before, I would go with taping and patching first, imo, assuming these are more cracks and not areas where the ceiling is sagging down (it's hard to tell from the picture).

I'm not exactly a professional though - I just remember this being one of those diy projects where I first thought "oh this should be easy" but then later thought "well, that was slightly less easy and less enjoyable than I expected" afterwards, lol.

Not horrible, like my experience roofing, but just challenging enough that I would think twice before doing it again.

When we did the ceiling of one room we taped and patched it the same way we did the walls. But again - I'm not a professional.

I guess my point is, I would investigate every other option before putting up new drywall on a ceiling again. Or maybe this is just a sign I should do more overhead presses....

former player

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Re: Can this ceiling be saved?
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2023, 06:48:47 PM »
Presumably the cracks are round the edges of two sheets of plasterboard? I guess the question is: why did the cracks open up at all?  The possibilities I can think of are that the joists the plasterboard is attached to moved, the plasterboard got wet, or the boards were badly put up with big gaps round them.  But whatever the problem was the cracks look old and unlikely to move again - if that's right then the initial problem isn't going to recur and patching things over seems a reasonable option.

I might have a look in the attic at some point when its cooler just to check if anything is going on up there that shouldn't be.

getsorted

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Re: Can this ceiling be saved?
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2023, 07:35:01 AM »
Presumably the cracks are round the edges of two sheets of plasterboard? I guess the question is: why did the cracks open up at all?  The possibilities I can think of are that the joists the plasterboard is attached to moved, the plasterboard got wet, or the boards were badly put up with big gaps round them.  But whatever the problem was the cracks look old and unlikely to move again - if that's right then the initial problem isn't going to recur and patching things over seems a reasonable option.

I might have a look in the attic at some point when its cooler just to check if anything is going on up there that shouldn't be.

I think it's just settlement of the house over time-- house was built in 1947 and I think this plasterboard is original.

@TreeLeaf I will definitely be renting a drywall jack if it comes to that!

curious_george

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Re: Can this ceiling be saved?
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2023, 12:51:22 PM »
Presumably the cracks are round the edges of two sheets of plasterboard? I guess the question is: why did the cracks open up at all?  The possibilities I can think of are that the joists the plasterboard is attached to moved, the plasterboard got wet, or the boards were badly put up with big gaps round them.  But whatever the problem was the cracks look old and unlikely to move again - if that's right then the initial problem isn't going to recur and patching things over seems a reasonable option.

I might have a look in the attic at some point when its cooler just to check if anything is going on up there that shouldn't be.

I think it's just settlement of the house over time-- house was built in 1947 and I think this plasterboard is original.

@TreeLeaf I will definitely be renting a drywall jack if it comes to that!

Yeah - I probably should have done this when I did this, lol. The hardest part was simply lifting the drywall over my head, while on a ladder, while someone else then screwed it in. These aren't muscle groups I normally use or work out much, so it was much more challenging than I expected after doing this for a few hours....

I did a lot of things when I was younger that, in retrospect, were kind of stupid. :P

ChpBstrd

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Re: Can this ceiling be saved?
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2023, 03:12:21 PM »
In my experience, drywall work is dirt cheap compared to the difficulty of DIYing it, or of doing a job that looks good after DIYing it.

$500-$1000 will make it smooth and new.

getsorted

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Re: Can this ceiling be saved?
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2023, 04:28:39 PM »
In my experience, drywall work is dirt cheap compared to the difficulty of DIYing it, or of doing a job that looks good after DIYing it.

$500-$1000 will make it smooth and new.

$500 to $1000 is quite a significant amount of money to me so this will have to be a DIY, however it happens.

Greystache

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Re: Can this ceiling be saved?
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2023, 07:28:45 AM »
Assuming that you can verify that the drywall is not damaged and the cracks are due to normal settling, I would try fixing the cracks first. Fixing cracks is very inexpensive, all you need is a roll of paper tape and a couple gallons of joint compound and some sandpaper. You will also need several drywall knives of various lengths and a tray to hold the joint compound. The tools are inexpensive and you may be able to borrow them. Anyway, it's only going to cost you maybe a hundred bucks to find out if you can get an acceptable result. Even if you don't like the result, you will have developed some drywall skills that you will need later on when you replace the ceiling.  There are probably 100 Youtube videos on drywall and fixing cracks if you have any questions about tools and techniques.

ChickenStash

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Re: Can this ceiling be saved?
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2023, 07:57:29 AM »
My house was built in the 50s and every room's ceiling has cracked joints, although not quite as severe as the picture. For my case, I'm not sure if it's just time and settling or bad installation.

I watched some YouTube vids on patching and taping then started fixing the cracks as I go through the house repainting and reflooring. Kind of a slow minor rehab project. It's not difficult or expensive but it is time consuming for a non-pro. If you are going to take your time doing the repairs, I'd suggest getting the compound in powder form and mixing as you need it. The big tubs will dry out fairly soon once opened.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Can this ceiling be saved?
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2023, 09:15:21 AM »
If you are going to take your time doing the repairs, I'd suggest getting the compound in powder form and mixing as you need it. The big tubs will dry out fairly soon once opened.
Second!

The trick is to get it to a consistency close to whipped cream. You pour the powder into a 5 gallon bucket and use a drill attachment to stir it, adding water until you get it nice and fluffy. It's a mess, but it's how a pro would do it. Note that you only have a couple of hours to work with any batch before bits start drying up and creating pebbles in your paste.

The pre-mixed stuff sold at the store looks like it'll be a time-saving shortcut, but it's usually the wrong consistency so you end up fighting streaks and making lumps. Take the long route and be sure to buy tools such as a 12" knife and a putty tray.

To actually save time, come up with either a scaffold or one of those flat-topped step ladders. This will save lots of time and effort versus moving a ladder around or being tempted to overreach. You could also put a 2x12 board between two ladders to make a scaffold you can move around on.

Just Joe

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Re: Can this ceiling be saved?
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2023, 08:33:49 AM »
Verify this isn't evidence that whatever is above it is leaking.

getsorted

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Re: Can this ceiling be saved?
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2023, 09:03:15 AM »
Verify this isn't evidence that whatever is above it is leaking.

It's not. I'm assuming the cracks are why the previous owner put in the drop ceiling, although it could have been for insulation. I had a new roof put on in 2021 and then redid all the attic insulation myself six months later (vacuumed out old & put in new). Everything is dry up there.

sonofsven

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Re: Can this ceiling be saved?
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2023, 11:24:53 PM »
Yes, you have plasterboard in lieu of lath. I've found that often the corners and ceiling to wall are backed with wire mesh and don't crack as much as the flat seams between the sheets, which is what you're seeing.

It would be faster and you'd likely get a better job if you overlaid it, but if you're doing it yourself it's probably easier to tape the cracks and skim coat it.

First I would clean it well with something like tsp.

Then I would clean the cracks with a utility knife or a stiff putty knife to get the loose stuff out. Or maybe a stiff, narrow brush? You just don't want chunks falling out while you're trying to tape it.

I would tape it with that sticky mesh tape instead of paper tape, it tends to hold a little better, but it is slower to finish.

I would buy general purpose mud (aka joint compound). The powder mix is ok and has it's uses (like thickening primer), but it's definitely slower and harder to mix, and if you're doing an entire ceiling of cracks you'll use quite a bit.

Joint compound is sold in plastic bags in cardboard boxes, but you can squeeze it out of the bag into a clean 5 or 2.5 gallon bucket with a lid and it will last for months. If you are using a lot you can use it straight from the bag into your tray, but if it dries some in the bags little chunks will fall in the clean mud and be a PITA.

I would start with a fairly flexible 6" drywall knife and cover the tape well without leaving a lot of extra mud on the ceiling.

Knock down the ridges with a stiffer knife. Some of the mesh tape will be exposed so you don't want to sand it yet.

Switch to a topping mud and put on subsequent wider courses with larger knives. 8"-12".

Sand as needed, hopefully minimally.

It's going to be hard to get it really smooth like a nice old plaster ceiling, so you will probably want to add a little texture, maybe just a stipple from thickened primer and a big nap roller, but heavier textures are used to hide problems (like your ceiling). When I'm doing drywall work on my own house I usually reach a point where I decide that perfection is not worth it and it's "good enough", and then I roll on a little texture.

I bet the roof and the subsequent attic insulation added quite a few cracks to the mix, so it's good that work is complete.

Also, take the time to roll out and tape down some thick floor paper, you won't regret it. And yes, most of the work can be done from a two step ladder or, even better, two ladders and a plank. You can also get a 30" wide x 6' long adjustable height rolling scaffold for indoor work; they're narrow enough to roll through a doorway (we call them Bakers around here). You can find used ones for a hundred bucks or so.