Best made furnace/condensder/evap combo?

[jnw]

My furnace and condensor are very old.  Probably over 20 years.  The evaporator was replaced 8 years ago but it's mismatched. 

My system is failing.. running 24/7 and it's only 85F outside yet it can't keep it cooler than 76F inside.

Thinking about having the entire system replaced.  But I am worried about the quality.  I know that all the new appliances aren't made very well these days and break down after a few years -- e.g dishwashers, washing machines.

What's the best brand of HVAC system to buy?  Something that we can service ourselves (e.g. replacing the furnace computer, or fixing various furnace components).    We have a Trane furnace and condensor.  My BF has done several repairs to the Trane furnace, such as replacing the computer, replacing valve etc.. was easy for him to work on -- he doesn't touch the condensor out back.

(I am guessing it's just the condensor out back that is bad.  It's a 1.5 ton Trane.  The evap is a 2 ton Lennox on top of the 1.5 ton Trane furnace -- hvac company replaced about 8 years ago.   Should I just replace the condensor for around $2500?  I figure that's what they will charge me for a 2 ton.  I rather have a 2 ton vs 1.5 ton so it cools the house faster.  I'd just do this but I am readign all this talk about mismatched furances and evaps.. that it can cause a lot of efficiency problems etc.. I am not sure if this is just said to try and get people to buy entire systems.  I could go with a Lennox 2 ton condensor to match the 2 ton Lennox evap.. sitting on the 1.5 ton Trane funace that is over 20 years old.  The furnace still works great.)

[lthenderson]

What's the best brand of HVAC system to buy? 

The best brand to buy is the brand in which your local person sales and can get parts quickly too. Doing repairs yourself is one thing but getting parts is another and especially in the last couple years in which supply chains have become an issue. I haven't had problems recently (I have Trane equipment which is what my local guy sells) but maybe 15 years ago, a fan blade on the condenser unit decided to break on one of the hottest days of the year, on a Friday evening before a three day holiday weekend. Not only did my local guy answer his phone while watching his son play at a ballgame but allowed me to go out behind his shop to his boneyard and get a replacement fan blade to install myself. I never have forgotten how cool that air felt the rest of that holiday weekend. 

[jnw]

The HVAC company was out today.  They gave a great quote for a total system replacement.  $5871 including tax.  Goodman 2 ton system, SEER 16 condenser, evaporator coil and furnace along with all the other parts. 

Excited because my old system was only SEER 10 and only 1.5 ton.  It also ran non stop in the summer and couldn't cool the place.   So my electricity bill should be quite nice from now on.. after 10 -20 years I am sure the savings in electricity will more than pay for the system.

[jnw]

Should I just go with a Trane system instead of Goodman? I've been reading some reviews of Goodman and they haven't been good.  I wonder why this guy likes Goodman so much.  I asked him if he were to have to replace the AC system in his home, which would he use? I am asked him what the best brand was and he said Goodman.

[jnw]

Goodman is Daikin's budget builder-grade equipment, and not designed for any meaningful service length. $6k is a terrible deal for what you're getting. We paid the same amount for the same sized Daikin branded equipment with a twelve year warranty six months ago in your area, once all the dust was settled. YMMV given the inflation, but still.

If you're going Daikin made, spring for the Amana or Daikin equipment if its available instead of Goodman, especially on the condenser and furnace ends. All the coils are out of the same factory, but the fiddly parts are where things fail. A properly paired Goodman evap coil paired with an Amana/Daikin compressor is a reasonably safe combo as a minor savings or equipment availability point, as the evap coil doesn't really have any moving/service parts as an all-or-nothing replacement.

If you replace the evap coil, you need to replace the condenser, too. Make sure the warranty registration name/address matches the county records for any of your new equipment, or Daikin will deny warranty work if needed on a technicality.

$5871 is a terrible deal for an entire system install?  The furnace, evap coil and condensert?  And all the parts and labor. Tax included.  Seems like an awful lot of work and seems affordable for an entire system.  How much should this entire system cost, the Goodman?  This includes labor.

[jnw]

Nothing wrong with Traine. We didn't go Traine ourselves last year due to cabinet equipment sizing on the furnace end. Traine doesn't make a 17.5" gas furnace with a BTU rating above 44k in any efficiency to save your life. Napkin math says ~60k@80%AFUE is the floor for our sized houses in this region. Eventually went Daikin because of cabinet size, availability, and cost, and fell into the longest consumer warranty available because of it. It was that or Lennox, and between what I know of Lennox equipment quality, the clown sales pitch we got, the effective service vendor lock-in for repair, and the embarrassing warranty coverage for the same money? Easy choice.

Well be glad you got the Daikin over the Lennox.  The HVAC guy said he's had the most problems with Lennox -- he thinks they are relatively garbage compared to Goodman.   He's been doing this for over 20 years if I recall.   I'll ask him about the better Daikin stuff. If I recall correctly, he said Lennox has horrible customer service -- hard to get ahold of them.

[jnw]

So Daikin has an A/C unit with "Daikin" printed on it?  Or did you get Amana? 

[chemistk]

Honestly, most of the lower-end models from most of the major brands, when installed by a professional who's experienced with that brand, are all going to perform adequately.

It's true that some brands are considered higher quality than others, but that's on the whole across a wide range of climates and in a very diverse set of operating conditions. Your guy said to avoid Lennox, my guy said to avoid York. My brother who works in HVAC distribution says to avoid Amana. Your guy recommends Goodman, mine recommended Carrier, and my brother recommends Bryant.

But ultimately what it's going to come down to is warranty. it's not like any of these brands are failing at alarming rates, especially when they're appropriately sized and properly installed. If and when a failure does occur, chances are more than likely that it'll be near of after the warranty period has expired.

If I had any advice to give it would be to first, get another quote for another brand that's similarly spec'd to the one you've already been quoted on. HVAC salespeople try to focus on the 'comfort' aspect of the system and tend not to talk about the actual nuts and bolts of how it performs under various conditions. They're there to sell you a solution that they think is going to be equally as good for them as it is for you, and most people tend to ignore the minutiae of how the thing they're selling is going to operate and more importantly what the longer term costs are going to be.

Second, and perhaps more important than the first (and this is according to my brother, not my own market analysis) - despite the high prices now, you're going to want to act sooner rather than later. Starting in 2023, the minimum efficiency requirements for new residential HVAC installations are going to jump to 14 SEER for the northern half of the country and 15 SEER for the southern half. This, coupled with supply chain constraints and a glut of new construction is going to keep supply tight and prices high if not higher. He thinks we might see another couple price increases before the end of this year.

FWIW we ended up with a Carrier system with an all in cost of $9750 which is fairly typical for our area.

[katsiki]

FWIW, my house came with a Goodman unit.  Still going strong at about 18 years old.  (Planning to replace it soon but it works!)

[jnw]

He's going to put a fiberglass base in for the condenser.  I talked to him more about the Goodman after reading the posts here about it.  He agrees that the Daikin branded stuff is top qualiuty but he says it cost a lot more and I think it's harder for him to get.    He said all he's charging is the price he pays for the equipment and his labor to do all this work.   He seems honest.   He swears by the Goodman.  He absolutely detests Lennox. the quality of them and their tecnical support is non-existent unlike every other brand.

I wish I could get teh Daikin .. maybe I should call again and ask him "how much more" for the Daikin branded unit.  I still can't believe you got the Daikin branded condenser and furnace for only $6000.

[jnw]

So it's $5871 but not including line set replacement. He suggested using existing lines, but I want new ones. He said he'd just charge me for the copper alone at $300.  So total price is now $6171 since I want new lines -- they're pretty old and easy to replace.

It looks like I can get $500 back from Oklahoma Natural Gas for getting a 95%+ efficiency furnace. I think the Goodman's are 96% I'll have to ask the tech.   I can get $200 back from PSO Oklahoma (electric company) for the new AC I believe.  So $700 total in rebates.  That makes the total cost:  $5471, tax included.. not too bad.   I believe my electric bill should be about cut in half because I am coming from SEER 10 broken unit -- which runs 24/7 all summer long, without being able too keep up, for the past several years -- to SEER 16 new unit.  It's supposed to save with heating as well since it is a more efficient furnace compared to my 20+ year old Trane.    This combined with the recent duct sealing and R39 attic insulation, hopefully the utility bills will look much more friendly, along with being more comfortable here.

[jnw]

Does it make sense to part out our old Trane furnace and sell all the individual pieces on ebay / facebook marketplace?  To try and get a few hundred more dollars to help pay for the new system?  I remember we bought a used computer for this Trane furnace for $125 back in 2014.. would be cool if we could get $75+ for it.  Maybe there are a lot of other parts from the furnace that worth something?   

[jnw]

Was watching a video by an air conditioning professional about Goodman HVAC equipment.  He said he thinks the negative criticism Goodman gets might not be warranted because Goodman is one of the most accessible brands that anyone can easily buy.  So this probably means a lot of Goodman systems are installed by non-professionals who don't know what they are doing, and so that's why there are more failures.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2KKXgG5XWE

Goodman believes in their product and that's why they give a 10 year warranty.  Many other brands have less than 10 year warranty.  Daikin is great though with the 12 warranty... wish I could afford the extra $2k.

[jnw]

FWIW, my house came with a Goodman unit.  Still going strong at about 18 years old.  (Planning to replace it soon but it works!)

Just curious, why replace it if it still works?  Mine is deaded now :)   Gave up the ghost 2 days ago lol.

[Paper Chaser]

[jnw]

Well that's pretty good :)  Although it's often in high 90's all summer long here.

[katsiki]

FWIW, my house came with a Goodman unit.  Still going strong at about 18 years old.  (Planning to replace it soon but it works!)

Just curious, why replace it if it still works?  Mine is deaded now :)   Gave up the ghost 2 days ago lol.

Planning to replace in 1-2 years due to age and known leak (slow'ish).

[Jon Bon]

That is a pretty good price for a furnace and AC replacement. That was a decent price 3 years ago, with the pandemic I would not hesitate to pay that. In the other heat pump thread the OP was paying north of 10k for a single unit replacement.

[Just Joe]

For future readers as another point of data we had an American Standard heat pump (2 ton) installed for $5K here in June. They reused the existing ductwork, electrical service and hard lines which they assured me were in good shape. 

[NorCal]

I know it's not exactly what you're looking for, but the inflation reduction act has some major incentives for heat-pumps.  It's up to an $8,000 incentive to convert, plus any utility incentives.  This would probably bring your total cost down significantly, but may come with some other trade-offs. 

I just had a Mitsubishi heat pump installed, and they are considered excellent.  It's complex and computer controlled, so there will be no DIY maintenance (and I'm generally a DIY person).  But that complexity gets me up to a SEER 23, which should save me more on energy than I'd ever pay on maintenance.