Author Topic: Light always left on - need switch recommendation  (Read 8563 times)

Just Joe

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Light always left on - need switch recommendation
« on: July 31, 2024, 02:20:09 PM »
Hey folks, I have a relative that always and I mean always leaves a light on in the basement. Can't figure out why but I want to work around the behavior. I can't seem to correct it enough to change the behavior.

They enter our basement entrance from outside, switch on the light, and then walk to the stairs, come up, and close the door. The light stays on. There is a switch inside at the bottom of the stairs and a switch near the top of the stairs.

Is there a light switch (standard 120V rocker) that lights up when the light is on?

This is a three-way circuit i.e. three switches.

I've had alot on my plate lately. Don't have the energy to do a deep dive on switches. I can do the work, not eager to do the hunt for a quality switch.

Just had a thought, I could probably wire up a pilot light to put next to the interior switch that made it obvious the lights were still on in the basement. Maybe that is what I need to look for.

Does anyone have a better idea?

hooplady

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Re: Light always left on - need switch recommendation
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2024, 03:19:58 PM »
What's the downside of leaving a light on? If it's a single bulb, replace with an LED which should cost only a couple dollars per year. Much simpler than replacing switches.

I have one 40w light that I leave on all the time. It's over the stove, provides plenty of light for the whole area if I find myself up at night unexpectedly.

Metalcat

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Re: Light always left on - need switch recommendation
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2024, 04:13:23 PM »
What about a smart switch? You could set up a timer that automatically shuts off the light after a certain length of time. Or what about a motion sensor light that automatically turns on when the person comes in and then shuts off?

RWD

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Glenstache

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Daley

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Re: Light always left on - need switch recommendation
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2024, 07:34:24 PM »
From what I understand, any timer switch installed would have to be three-way capable as well, which not many are. I'm not sure about the two switches RWD linked, but from the general searches I'm finding online? As far as I can tell, anyone else in this predicament (timer switch on a three way switch circuit) gets recommended an Intermatic ST01 switch, which runs about $55 currently.

This kinda feels like throwing good money after bad, and you'll understand why here shortly.

I don't know how the lighting is wired in the basement, but I'm picturing hard-wired edison socket(s) in the ceiling of a basement either unfinished or partially finished. If this isn't the case, adapt the following accordingly to your lighting configuration. I'm assuming that it's not designed to be a living space given the description, and the lighting is appropriately minimalist in execution.

If it's just a single (or even a couple edison sockets)? Seriously, just stick a 40W LED equivalent in and let it stay on. At 3W a bulb, even at outrageous power prices like $1/kWh (which, even Hawaii's peak pricing is still under 50¢/kWh), that single bulb would only cost $1.10 to run for the year.

If there's multiple sockets and you still want most of the lights off unless you're deliberately down there? Just install cheap pull-chain switches for the other socket(s)/lights. But even then, at the national average of 15¢/kWh with a steep compounding 10% inflation, it's still going to be 15+ years before you see an ROI on each of those $5.46 sockets versus just leaving that 3W bulb on 24/7/365. (Later edit: I didn't think to include replacement bulb cost in this calculation. Factoring a 2.5 year average lifespan for 100% on and $2.50 a bulb, you could break even between 5-10 years, which actually isn't a bad ROI timespan, even if we're talking about a $5.50 expenditure... excuse the labor.) I can't imagine how long the ROI would be with a $55 timer switch, or even a $25 switch... never mind the question on whether those timer switches would even last long enough to see a net positive ROI versus low wattage bulbs before needing to be replaced given the quality of most electronics these days.

Sometimes, the cheapest and easiest solution is to just lean into the bad habit in the least wasteful way possible if the habit can't be broken. A couple low wattage LED bulbs left on can actually be less wasteful than trying to rewire an entire basement just to automatically turn the lights off.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2024, 10:09:28 PM by Daley »

Glenstache

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Re: Light always left on - need switch recommendation
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2024, 08:00:34 PM »
From what I understand, any timer switch installed would have to be three-way capable as well, which not many are. I'm not sure about the two switches RWD linked, but from the general searches I'm finding online? As far as I can tell, anyone else in this predicament (timer switch on a three way switch circuit) gets recommended an Intermatic ST01 switch, which runs about $55 currently.

This kinda feels like throwing good money after bad, and you'll understand why here shortly.

I don't know how the lighting is wired in the basement, but I'm picturing hard-wired edison socket(s) in the ceiling of a basement either unfinished or partially finished. If this isn't the case, adapt the following accordingly to your lighting configuration. I'm assuming that it's not designed to be a living space given the description, and the lighting is appropriately minimalist in execution.

If it's just a single (or even a couple edison sockets)? Seriously, just stick a 40W LED equivalent in and let it stay on. At 3W a bulb, even at outrageous power prices like $1/kWh (which, even Hawaii's peak pricing is still under 50¢/kWh), that single bulb would only cost $1.10 to run for the year.

If there's multiple sockets and you still want most of the lights off unless you're deliberately down there? Just install cheap pull-chain switches for the other socket(s)/lights. But even then, at the national average of 15¢/kWh with a steep compounding 10% inflation, it's still going to be 15+ years before you see an ROI on each of those $5.46 sockets versus just leaving that 3W bulb on 24/7/365. I can't imagine how long the ROI would be with a $55 timer switch, or even a $25 switch... never mind the question on whether those timer switches would even last long enough to see a net positive ROI versus low wattage bulbs before needing to be replaced given the quality of most electronics these days.

Sometimes, the cheapest and easiest solution is to just lean into the bad habit in the least wasteful way possible if the habit can't be broken. A couple low wattage LED bulbs left on can actually be less wasteful than trying to rewire an entire basement just to automatically turn the lights off.
I like this analysis. I guess the only remaining question is how many LED bulbs vs cost of switch.

Daley

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Re: Light always left on - need switch recommendation
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2024, 08:49:04 PM »
I like this analysis. I guess the only remaining question is how many LED bulbs vs cost of switch.

Yup, and if there are multiples that you'd prefer to keep off, better to ask how easy it might it be to potentially just stick a cheap mechanical switch on that light source instead. The only way I don't see this as a feasible option is if there's a whole mess of recessed lighting or some nuttery like that... and I have a hard time believing the lighting is that nuts on a space in the house that literally sounds like it's only being used for entrance into the house by the relative and maybe storage and is kept closed off.

Hooplady's suggestion is solid, and the math backs it up. KISS engineering at its finest, even if you have to replace bulbs every couple-three years.

I'll admit, I was impressed that you found a pair of sub-$30 three way timer switches until I saw it was made by TP-Link. Don't get me wrong, I like some of TP-Link's routers and networking gear, especially the models that support third party firmware... but given the choice between a hard-wired $30 TP-Link "smart" Wi-Fi enabled 3-way timer light switch and a dumb $2.50 Leviton mechanical 3-way switch installed in my home, I'm taking the Leviton every time. And if the lighting really is that nuts and complicated with a half dozen bulbs or multiple LED integrated fixtures that can't be replaced or can't replace bulbs and can't be cut down to even under 20W total making a timer switch more feasible financially? Then I'm buying the dumber $55 3-way friendly timer switch from Intermatic instead.

Edited to add: Finally found a 3-way friendly motion sensor switch from Leviton's catalog following Metalcat's suggestion. Would still cost roughly $30 for the IPS06-1LW DOS05-1LZ (first was a discontinued part number - sorry), and I'm not a fan of motion lights even if they're set to 30 minutes, because it's still too easy to potentially vanish from the sensor doing work and losing task lighting at an inopportune time on the rare occasions you might need it. YMMV, of course... but it's still a cheaper dumb option than my other timer switch from a known household/industrial electrical switch manufacturer.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2024, 09:37:22 PM by Daley »

Fru-Gal

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Re: Light always left on - need switch recommendation
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2024, 10:10:30 PM »
Don’t change the switch, change the bulb and/or the fixture!

You could install a motion-sensor fixture. Or you buy a pack of programmable (such as TP-link) bulbs and control them with something like the Kasa app.

Just Joe

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Re: Light always left on - need switch recommendation
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2024, 02:34:38 PM »
What about a smart switch? You could set up a timer that automatically shuts off the light after a certain length of time. Or what about a motion sensor light that automatically turns on when the person comes in and then shuts off?

Motion sensor is probably the fancy answer.

The simple answer is probably LEDs that I just quit worrying about. Plenty of other things to worry about.

Thank you all. 
« Last Edit: August 01, 2024, 02:36:56 PM by Just Joe »

BlueHouse

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Re: Light always left on - need switch recommendation
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2024, 02:43:45 PM »
I have a lutron 3-way smart switch in my hallway.  It's connected through alarm.com to my alarm sensors on my front door and garage door.  Anytime either of those doors opens, the light turns on for 20 minutes then switches off.  I love it because my hallway is dark and light is ALWAYS required. 

I also have a motion activated light in my garage.  It's cheap and easy, but not on a 3 way switch.  The only problem I have had with this is that my cleaning people kept turning it off at the switch, even after I got one of those switch protectors to stop them from turning it off.  So I had to Duct tape it! 

GilesMM

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Re: Light always left on - need switch recommendation
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2024, 06:30:02 AM »
What about a smart switch? You could set up a timer that automatically shuts off the light after a certain length of time. Or what about a motion sensor light that automatically turns on when the person comes in and then shuts off?

Motion sensor is probably the fancy answer.

The simple answer is probably LEDs that I just quit worrying about. Plenty of other things to worry about.

Thank you all.


Motion sensor bulbs are even simpler and cheaper than motion sensor fixtures. E.g. these.

Just Joe

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Re: Light always left on - need switch recommendation
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2025, 02:27:46 PM »
Thanks all - the simplest solution was - procrastination. Eldest has corrected themself and the problem is no longer a problem.

Glenstache

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Re: Light always left on - need switch recommendation
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2025, 04:11:39 PM »
Thanks all - the simplest solution was - procrastination. Eldest has corrected themself and the problem is no longer a problem.
Such an elegant solution!

 

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