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Asbestos, Radon and other scarry things . . .

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JustJayMusic:
Hello,

Maybe I'm opening myself to being judge for a character flaw or just being plain stupid, but hear me out.

We are embarking on a renovation of a small 1920's house, I have done similar renovations, most before the recent craze of radon and asbestos warnings.

Wife is deeply concerned with the possibility of asbestos in 2x4 drop ceiling tiles and plaster. She's been reading about old house renovation and the problems with asbestos being in some building materials. Our radon test came back really low (1.8(pCi/L), but she still wants us to put a vacuum pump in the basement.

I'm trying to be sensitive to her concerns, we have an 11 year old son and I don't want to jeopardize his health. So I am sending materials out for testing and will pay to have "experts" take away contaminated material properly.

But the skeptic in me is saying that home based asbestos and radon levels are a bit over-blown by lawyers and class action judgments. I'm not saying workers who worked with the stuff their entire work lives didn't get life threating exposure, but really this stuff is everywhere in older homes. My wife was in tears when I discussed my feelings on this (she is a very passionate person) and the debating of my point fell on deaf ears and much emotion, so I back down.

By reading some of the stuff she sent me online, I'm already a dead man, from my work, and other home projects in the past.

Please let me know you opinions, I am really anxious at how much this is going to cost and the time involved.

Jay "the skeptic"

merula:
I can't really speak to radon, but I will try to speak to asbestos, from the perspective of someone who works at an insurance company that has spent billions on mesothelioma claims.

As a bit of a history lesson, for about 70 years, asbestos was a miracle mineral. It's flexible and fireproof, what's not to love? It was used in EVERYTHING. As an additive to plaster walls, as a wrapper for hot water pipes, in ceiling tiles, in children's pajamas. If you have ever entered a building built before 1970, you have encountered asbestos.

But mesothelioma (or asbestosis) is still relatively rare in the general population. How can that be, if this miracle mineral is a terrible carcinogen and also ubiquitous? It's because the poison is in the dose, and the dose (with asbestos) is in the dust.

So, if you want to be moderately safe with asbestos, don't get a job working with it daily. If you want to be pretty safe, avoid creating dust with asbestos materials (if you're taking down ceiling tiles, try not to break them, etc.). If you want to be extremely safe, leave the asbestos as it is (undisturbed asbestos presents basically no risk) or hire an asbestos abatement contractor who uses negative pressure containment.

Really, if you're going to worry about something with old houses, the place to focus your worry is lead. Obviously an 11 year old is past the "eating paint chips because they were around" stage, but corroded lead pipes can present dangerous levels of lead virtually undetected and enough lead paint dust can cause cognitive issues even in adults. (Granted, that is a very high level of lead paint dust and it hasn't stopped me from scraping paint off my walls.)

With lead, to be moderately safe, test your water and clean up well when you're working with a painting project. To be very safe, use chemical-based paint remover. To be extremely safe, replace lead pipes with copper or PEX and hire a lead-certified contractor for any painting jobs.

The general public is terrible at assessing risk, because humans have a much stronger reaction to rare events than typical ones. What's safer: sedentary job with a car commute or a utility line job with a bike commute? You're more likely to die in some catastrophic accident with the latter, but the cumulative impacts of a sedentary lifestyle will kill you just as dead.

Gilly:
I can speak to radon; I've had to take certified radon mitigation training. 1.8 is well below the threshold of 4 set by the EPA. That 4 is even controversial, because the modeling used is a linear model where the fit is questionable at low levels. The 4 pico curries/L has been shown to potentially increase risk of lung cancer only in smokers. For non-smokers it has not been shown to increase risk. Risk to non-smokers only becomes evident ~8 pCi/L. If there is still a concern sealing cracks in the slab, any utility penetrations, and doing your best to reduce the stack effect can possibly reduce the levels. For the record, not a single entity recommends that anything be done for levels 1.3 pCI/L or less, and 2.6 pCi/L is the lowest threshold anywhere for installing a system, and that is only a suggestion.
In terms of your radon test, was it in a living space? A bedroom specific one may give your wife a greater peace of mind. Basements typically have the highest levels in the house, so if you are testing to assuage her fear, test where you/your wife/child spends the most time.

JustJayMusic:

--- Quote from: Gilly on June 11, 2018, 10:05:36 AM ---In terms of your radon test, was it in a living space? A bedroom specific one may give your wife a greater peace of mind. Basements typically have the highest levels in the house, so if you are testing to assuage her fear, test where you/your wife/child spends the most time.

--- End quote ---

Hi Gilly, The reading was in the basement. Thank you for responding!

Gilly:
Ok, so I want to reiterate what I already said, and you read in literature, that 1.8 is low. You don't need to be concerned. I don't know if your basement is finished or unfinished or how much time you spend in there, but again a test where your family spends the most time, such as an upstairs bedroom could be valuable peace of mind information.

However: to reduce levels potential actions that would not be expensive would be:
Air tight sump cover if you have a sump.
Finding utility penetrations and sealing those.
If you have visible cracks in the slab, seal those. Make sure they aren't designed expansion joints though.
If you frequently open windows in your upstairs, balance it by opening windows in the basement if you can. This reduces the stack effect which draws more air from the soil vapor.
If you sleep in the basement have a window open and have a fan blowing air into the room not out of; outdoor air typically has less radon than indoor.

If you do all of these, take another radon measurement, and your wife is still not comfortable the following are relatively cheap (hundreds, not thousands) and easily DIY:
If you have dirt a crawl space putting down a vapor barrier; this is more expensive, but in terms of hundreds of dollars, not thousand.
Also if your slab is accessible something like https://www.radonseal.com/radonseal-mitigation.htm?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0NvwjpXM2wIVBtbACh0qwgPKEAQYASABEgJ8S_D_BwE
could be used.

Again, if this were my house, I would take no action, but that top list is something that can be easily implemented for peace of mind.
The other thing is check with your county or state health department. They can provide you with literature or discuss the health risks. Some cases they even provide radon testing kits.

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