Author Topic: ***UPDATED*** Hardwood Floor Repair  (Read 6021 times)

Mori

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***UPDATED*** Hardwood Floor Repair
« on: November 13, 2013, 02:03:22 PM »
Hey all,

I have a hole (two) to patch in a hardwood floor. After my google and youtube research I know I need to pull the boards back some to give an overlap so that the patch will blend--I've never done any of this. The videos I've seen mention cutting the bottom of the "tongue and groove" side of the replacement boards off so that they drop into place. Every video I've seen says do this with a table saw. I don't own a table saw. Is there another way to do this without buying new equipment? I've got a circular saw and a jigsaw.

Pic is attached in case it helps. The hole goes across the width of the boards. Fun times.

Thanks!

UPDATE: Scroll to the bottom for the final results and pics.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2013, 08:45:10 AM by Mori »

Insanity

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Re: Hardwood Floor Repair
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2013, 02:12:11 PM »
The reason they say table saw is because of the guides.  If you can build a jig and get a clean cut you should be able to do the same.

Note: I am not a woodworking expert, this just my guess.

gooki

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Re: Hardwood Floor Repair
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2013, 02:24:12 PM »
You can buy saw benches that turn a circular saw into a table saw. Find a used one. Use it, then sell it.

ArcticaMT6

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Re: Hardwood Floor Repair
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2013, 02:54:00 PM »
What do you mean by cutting the bottom off? Are you talking about cutting off the Tongue? The bottom flange of the Groove?

You can buy saw benches that turn a circular saw into a table saw. Find a used one. Use it, then sell it.

You are asking to lose appendages or take a kickback into the stomach with those things. Don't buy one.

willn

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Re: Hardwood Floor Repair
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2013, 03:06:15 PM »
A careful cut with a hand held circular saw will work.  Get flooring that's a couple of feet longer than you need, clamp it well so you can use both hands with the circular saw.

What you need to do is cut the bottom of the groove off so that you can lever the board's tongue down and into the existing flooring's groove.  You may need to cut the tongue down, but usually you don't have to get it completely removed.  Both cuts can be a bit imperfect because they are hidden, as long as you don't cut into the top surface of the replacement board.  Which you won't, because you can cut it from the back side with the blade depth set shallower than the thickness...

A cheap table saw can lead to lots of mustachian home projects but you don't need one for this project.

See pic as this description sucks!



Mori

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Re: Hardwood Floor Repair
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2013, 03:19:41 PM »
What do you mean by cutting the bottom off? Are you talking about cutting off the Tongue? The bottom flange of the Groove?


The bottom flange of the Groove. Exactly. Yes, the description sucks--I'm not good with wording sometimes. I need to cut the bottom flange of the groove of several boards (12 or 13) without damaging the top or the finish.

ArcticaMT6

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Re: Hardwood Floor Repair
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2013, 03:25:55 PM »
You need a straight edge guide, and some clamps. You will need to know the distance from the side of your circular saw to the blade teeth exactly (down to the 1/16" of an inch if you can. For my circular saw, that's just under 3".

Clamp a straight edge that distance away from your cut. For the tongue portion, clamp it 3" from the top face, and it should remove the tongue with little or no cutting of the rest of the piece. Repeat on all tongues. For the bottom of the grooves, change the depth of cut on your circular saw so you are just barely cutting past the flange portion of the groove, and not deep enough to cut into the upper groove. Should be 3"+depth of groove (usually 1/4" I think?).

A table saw would be much quicker, but you don't need to go out and buy one for this.

Mori

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Re: Hardwood Floor Repair
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2013, 03:28:08 PM »
Willin, I thought your explanation made plenty of sense (so much so that I thought you were talking about my pic until I read things again)!

Alright, if I'm careful I can do this with a circular saw? I'll need to get some scrap to practice on before I try the real thing. Very good idea with the straight edge. Thanks, Arctica.

Thanks, all, for your responses! I'll have to post pics when I'm done with this patch.

ArcticaMT6

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Re: Hardwood Floor Repair
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2013, 03:34:43 PM »
No problem. Just clamp the boards down, take your time, and test it on scraps. Also, don't clamp the boards to anything you don't want to risk cutting up. I've damaged a few tables/stools by not paying attention.

chardog

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Re: Hardwood Floor Repair
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2013, 09:32:56 PM »
A careful cut with a hand held circular saw will work.  Get flooring that's a couple of feet longer than you need, clamp it well so you can use both hands with the circular saw.

What you need to do is cut the bottom of the groove off so that you can lever the board's tongue down and into the existing flooring's groove.  You may need to cut the tongue down, but usually you don't have to get it completely removed.  Both cuts can be a bit imperfect because they are hidden, as long as you don't cut into the top surface of the replacement board.  Which you won't, because you can cut it from the back side with the blade depth set shallower than the thickness...

A cheap table saw can lead to lots of mustachian home projects but you don't need one for this project.

See pic as this description sucks!

The sketch shows removing the tongue as well as the bottom of the groove.  I would think you could leave the tongue and insert it first before placing the entire board in final level position.

willn

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Re: Hardwood Floor Repair
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2013, 08:52:48 AM »
A careful cut with a hand held circular saw will work.  Get flooring that's a couple of feet longer than you need, clamp it well so you can use both hands with the circular saw.

What you need to do is cut the bottom of the groove off so that you can lever the board's tongue down and into the existing flooring's groove.  You may need to cut the tongue down, but usually you don't have to get it completely removed.  Both cuts can be a bit imperfect because they are hidden, as long as you don't cut into the top surface of the replacement board.  Which you won't, because you can cut it from the back side with the blade depth set shallower than the thickness...

A cheap table saw can lead to lots of mustachian home projects but you don't need one for this project.

See pic as this description sucks!

The sketch shows removing the tongue as well as the bottom of the groove.  I would think you could leave the tongue and insert it first before placing the entire board in final level position.

That's often the case but sometimes it's just too tight, maybe because the new flooring is a very slightly larger tongue.  I remember swiping a block plane down the new tongue a half dozen times to get it into place, no saw needed.  Let the wood sit in the same room for a day or two to be sure it has the same moisture level as the old floor.

Removing the existing flooring can be a challenge.  It's been a while since I've done this but I think I've typically run a circular saw a couple of cuts down the length of the boards and then can pry them out after removing a middle strip to get some space. Slow and easy though, as the old tongues sometimes bind and along with the nails can damage adjacent strips.

Post pics once you're done!
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 10:30:38 AM by willn »

Mori

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Re: ***UPDATED*** Hardwood Floor Repair
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2013, 09:08:43 AM »
Hi all!

Ok, so, I'm done! Thanks again to everyone that helped with this. I've attached pics.

A few quick notes for anyone else that may have this issue:

Total tools: Circular saw, Speed square, clamps X6, sawhorses (hand-built from cheap pine), the jigsaw for one difficult cut, drill (I think it was with the 3/8 bit, but check before using), nails (8d finishing), a nail set (to set the nails under the height of the board), and a hammer. I also used a pair of pliers to bend nails and break them out the board when they bent.

Tips:
- When matching color, make sure you pick an AVERAGE board for your floor. I picked one that was a bit too dark, and it shows in natural light. The floor has to be refinished anyway so it doesn't matter as much to me, but it's still annoying.
- A speed square (or guide of some sort) is your best friend. I clamped it in place and used it to keep my lines straight for my cuts. This really only mattered for the short cut across the board.
- For the most part I could leave the tongue on the boards and just remove the bottom flange of the groove and slot it into place. I wedged some into place by putting a piece of scrap lumber against the board and tapping it with a hammer.
- Most of my replacement boards have less than a credit card's width gap on both sides. I'm okay with that. It's not noticeable when you look at the floor.
- Diagonal nailing without a nailgun sucks. I gave up and face-nailed.
- Predrill holes before nailing or your life will be difficult.
- I fit one board at a time, but I made sure the next board would work before I nailed the previous one.
- Test fit. Test fit again. Then nail. :) You may need to wedge while nailing because the board may move.
- If you can, test your technique on some sacrificial lumber before you start so that you have a feel for how things will work on the actual floor. Prying up boards to re-nail things is troublesome.
- The final board in the patch (at least for me) had to have both the tongue and groove removed before it would fit. Your experience may differ.

GIVE YOURSELF PLENTY OF TIME. Something always goes wrong... in my case, I found that the tongues went opposite ways on either side of the patch for the right hole. That was fun. Luckily, the floor is made up of primarily short boards (all around 18 inches, give or take) I ended up patching by removing the tongue on the exposed board and tapping it into place on one side, then sawing the tongue off the other board in the next row and slotting/tapping into place. This meant that the tongue sides of both boards could meet with no issues and I didn't have to pry up more floor than necessary.

I also ended up shimming some scrap from my cuts under parts of the boards (less than 1/8 of an inch). My floor had settled in places and the boards would bend as I stepped on them, or flex when I nailed them. I've since learned it's probably better to do this underneath at the joist if you can, but my basement is finished. If you have any recs on how to do this part better, please post.

I haven't puttied the holes yet--trying to figure out what color to refinish the floor. My understanding is that the putty doesn't stain as well as the floor, so I want to get something close to the final floor color.

All in all, fun and challenging. Thanks everyone for your help! I've picked up a new skill. Pics below.

Final edit: Total time for the bigger hole (I called it the left one, but it's the right one in the pictures) -- 12 hours as I learned what the heck to do. Total time for the right hole (with the opposite-facing tongues): 4 hours. 

Sorry for the multiple edits (if you actually see them).
« Last Edit: December 31, 2013, 09:17:12 AM by Mori »

Mori

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Re: ***UPDATED*** Hardwood Floor Repair
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2013, 09:09:58 AM »
Rest of the pics:

Frankies Girl

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Re: ***UPDATED*** Hardwood Floor Repair
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2013, 09:19:59 AM »
WOW!

I'm really impressed - that looks really good and you should be proud. :D

Mori

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Re: ***UPDATED*** Hardwood Floor Repair
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2014, 09:20:02 AM »
Thanks, Frankies Girl! This was part my first major home reno project--I think it turned out pretty good. :)

willn

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Re: ***UPDATED*** Hardwood Floor Repair
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2014, 09:29:05 AM »
Nice job, I kind of like when the new and old don't blend perfectly. The history of the house is preserved. 

Greg

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Re: ***UPDATED*** Hardwood Floor Repair
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2014, 10:58:05 AM »
Nice job.  In some cultures, this kind of mismatching is part of the design.  A little pepper in your salt.  Tells a story.