I find it both funny and annoying at how easy international immigration is offered as a solution the cost of living or home ownership. It's like people suggest it without any understanding what international migration means, the amount of effort, prep, money investment, visa, loss of social networks, overcoming language/cultural barrier, dealing with local issues, unknown unknowns, etc etc.
Sure, the move between Canada and the US is doable... given the number of factors. There is enough cultural context to feel somewhat comfortable in the new location. The language allows you at least understand and build local connections immediately. Otherwise... I find it disingenuous. It's like telling someone with no idea why their leg hurts that they could become a Doctor. I mean, sure they could but this advice misses a number of critical steps of the process. And not everyone has the aptitude to become a Doctor.
Otherwise yay for creative approach to housing, having flexibility, doing some cost/benefit analysis etc. Buying the most expensive thing available rarely makes sense.
Just don't tell me to move to Greece.
IDK, again, that's not really how I interpreted it, but more than people aren't even willing to consider those options before they reject them in favour of unaffordable housing in the area they're familiar with.
I mentioned medical care above and because the of healthcare crisis here in Canada, it's actually pushed me to think quite seriously beyond Canada. I've pretty thoroughly evaluated just about every reasonable international option from the perspective of healthcare, housing costs, infrastructure, language, culture, and immigration logistics.
Yes, relocating to another country is hard, but so is trying to pay for an insanely expensive house that you cannot afford.
The question is: are people really examining enough which hard things are actually harder??
There's an astronomical human bias towards perceiving what is familiar as superior and safer, and to disproportionately fear unknowns.
I am in no way saying that everyone can just pick up and move to Malaysia, or whatever. When people can't afford homes, the situation is hard no matter what they do. But that's when *more* openness to creative solutions is *more* valuable, not less.
I agree with your interpretation. Having an open mind is definitely a HUGE help for figuring out life situations. :)
I think my point is not only international relocation is hard but it may not increase in the quality of the life factor. It's just much more than optimizing housing costs or in general cost of living. It might be great for some people and it might absolutely not be a good solution for others. Still, I see this thrown around in FIRE community (and even MMM just casually linked the international housing prices website lol). Consider it a personal pet peeve. :D
I do find the all or nothing mentality really strange. Some people are like: either I buy a super expensive house and work forever in attempt to pay it off or I rent forever and feel like a complete victim. There are a lot of in between which is where *I think* Pete was going. Just on top of my head (and I am REALLY familiar with Canadian real estate market) ---
- roommates / living with parents while saving the downpayment
- figuring out a career that allows WFH or relocation to a lower cost of living zone
- renting out basement/ part of the house (or maybe even LIVING in the basement and renting out upstairs for more money)
- reducing the list of wants from the property
- looking for an older building, apartment, etc.
- looking for different locations even within the expensive area
- really assessing the mortgage options
Probably only first 3 would apply in the ultra high cost areas but yea, I've seen a lot of helplessness in the housing conversations. It's like "if I didn't get the thing I feel like I DESERVE, then I am screwed forever and ever by the evil whoever".
It's good to challenge that.
yeah, that's really what I meant by "hard."
I was saying that a lot of options are hard, and that some scenarios that lower your cost of housing will absolutely make your overall life harder AKA, lower your overall quality of life.
But yeah, the "this is what I know and I need to stick with what I know" bias is insanely strong for people.
If what someone knows is a detached home in the area they know well, and that's become unattainable, it's like they short circuit.
I remember talking to a woman going through a divorce who could no longer afford to own a detached home in the city. I was helping her find an affordable rental or condo, and she was utterly HORRIFIED at the prospect of living in an apartment.
I had found her a luxury apartment building with tons of amenities that was having a promotion on their larger 3 bedroom units. This is a highly-rent controlled city, so she would lock in that discount permanently.
But no, she could not stomach the prospect of living in an apartment... a luxury apartment, in a 1000+sqft unit, in a building with security, heated indoor parking, a pool, a gym, a party room, rooftop BBQs and lounge, and a library.
Instead she decided to pay *more* for a partial basement townhouse unit where she had outdoor parking (harsh winters) and where she was responsible for snow removal for her unit, and there were absolutely no ammenities for her child.
Obviously lots of people aren't that unreasonable, but I've heard far more stories of that kind of nonsense than people willing to even consider thinking about more creative solutions to their "I can't afford the kind of house I expected to afford in the area I expected to live" dilemma.
As I've said already, for folks who are thinking expansively and still don't have good options, that sucks balls. But I'm quite surrounded by folks who have jumped into absolutely batshit insane mortgages that make me want to cry for them or slap them or something, just because they can't expand their mental picture beyond what is familiar/expected.
