"That's glory for you" - AKA Why Retire?

[Self-employed-swami]

I think that it's common enough among women to be known as "Bag Lady With Cats" Syndrome.  And before that's interpreted as an opportunity to make fun of women, let me point out that there's the equivalent phenomenon of control freaks guys (and it's almost always guys) with huge... spreadsheets... analyzing their retirement finances and deciding to work for "Just One More Year" Syndrome. 

I don't object to the crazy cat lady syndrome being mentioned, I just don't quite understand the comparison to dudes with 'just one more year' syndrome. 

Could you please elaborate Nords?  Thanks

[arebelspy]

I believe he is talking about the proclivity in some to over accumulate for safety's sake.

Women may do it for fear of eventually becoming a bag lady, so they keep working and building a bigger and bigger stache (unnecessarily so).  Similarly would be the men with the same one more year syndrome.

The need to feel secure, basically, when you're paying a pretty big price to up that success rate by a percent or two.

[Self-employed-swami]

Ah.  Thanks ARebelSpy (I figured out your name a few weeks ago) ;)

[Spartana]

What growing up poor taught me was how to be comfortable on less.  We never had cable, usually didn't have a (running) car, I had to do my own bike repairs or walk, only had cable if we pirated it, never ever ate out.  Later I paid for college with grants and part time work.  And once I started making money, I saw no reason for lifestyle inflation, so the ERE/MMM transition was easy.

Ditto to this.  Raised by a single parent who worked 3 minimum wage jobs to support her 3 kids, who took the bus or drove drove a 20 year old car, who rented out a "room" in our converted garage even while us kids were young, who scraped by with nothing extra for herself at all - and little for the kids (we all had real jobs ourselves by the time we were 13)  taught me to live both comfortably and happily on less.  I joined the service for little pay but they paid for my college after I got out plus gave me a marketable job skill while I was in. And when my pay increased I didn't really change my lifestyle by much. Lived small but saved big. By learning  to live on less happily in my younger days, I knew I could do that in my life and be very fulfilled. Especially when I saw my Mom be able to live on such a small amount once she was in her 60's yet still be able to travel all over the world, have a nice little seniors condo, and enjoy her life. If she could do it, I could do it and didn't need to have the fear of being an impovershed bag lady. So for me, growing up poor actually made me want to be FI and ER faster - and on less - then many other people who grew up with more. I think it allowed me to feel much more secure with a small income stream then people who are use to having more. They may have higher wants and expectations then us po' folks who are just happy to ride our bikes to the beach and play in the sun.

[Nords]

I don't object to the crazy cat lady syndrome being mentioned, I just don't quite understand the comparison to dudes with 'just one more year' syndrome. 
Could you please elaborate Nords?  Thanks

Like Arebelspy said, different names for the same anxiety of retiring and finding out (too late) that the finances wouldn't support it.  I brought up the comparison to show that the fear applies to men as well as to women, even though the feminine stereotype gets a lot more publicity.

I find it amusing/annoying that women get labeled with that scary image as an excuse to work longer but men have the macho "I'm good, I still have what it takes to stay in the game!" 

Just over a year ago I lost a good friend to a cerebral hemorrhage.  But what really killed him was his "Just one more year" syndrome so that he could pay off the mortgage.  Despite already having way more assets than they needed, he could not pass up the idea of free money to pay down his debt.  His widow is trying to contend with the solace of knowing that his life insurance paid off the mortgage for her.

[Spartana]

I find it amusing/annoying that women get labeled with that scary image as an excuse to work longer but men have the macho "I'm good, I still have what it takes to stay in the game!" 

 

Good point between the reasons men stay "in the game" - and how they are labelled differently for staying on the job longer (heroic, valuable, needed, useful, etc...) as compared to women, who are said to be working longer due to fear of not having enough money to survive on in old age. That idea probably arose from the fact that - at least in past generations - women were more often dependant homemakers and child rearers for much of their lives and, once divorce became more common, they had to go back to work at jobs that often didn't pay much because they had no job experience, had been out of the workforce a long time, etc...  So that made it hard for them to earn enough to feel secure enough to retire at even an old age. I think that has changed a lot now a days and women continue to work longer for the same reasons men work, but it may be a long time before  "the fear of being a homeless bag lady" image is gone from many people's minds as the reason women don't retire earlier.

[Jamesqf]

Just over a year ago I lost a good friend to a cerebral hemorrhage.  But what really killed him was his "Just one more year" syndrome...

I don't know about that.  In general, it seems that people who retire usually wind up dying a lot earlier than those who keep working.  All too often, they do like my neighbor, and spend their time sitting in front of the TV drinking beer.

[Nords]

I don't know about that.  In general, it seems that people who retire usually wind up dying a lot earlier than those who keep working.  All too often, they do like my neighbor, and spend their time sitting in front of the TV drinking beer.

James, he was nearly 67 years old.  He died in the office at his desk.  Literally.  With the ambulance crew working frantically.  Right after the 8:15 AM staff meeting.

Normally I'd applaud your analytical approach to the question, but I'm having difficulty separating that from the fact that he was my good friend.  I've been around this discussion before, though, and I'll mention that the research data has to separate the "early retirees" from those who are retired for layoff or health issues.  It also has to separate the workers who want to work from those who "have" to work due to insufficient savings/excess expenses.  Most of the studies show that people who retire early (because they want to, not because they "have" to) live longer than those who are aren't financially able to retire.

He and I had the "just one more year" conversation nearly every year of my decade of ER.  His finances were good enough that he could live off his pension(s) and SS and not even touch his dividend income, let alone his principal.  But he kept working because he felt uncomfortable being retired with a mortgage payment.  He served in the Army for 30 years and immediately returned to work as a Dept of the Army civil-service manager.  He wanted to pay off the mortgage, and he'd reached the point where he'd be able to do that in less than one more year of salary.

We usually had this talk over a frosty beverage while we reviewed his latest round at the golf course.  "Just one more year" had become a joke because he was one of those guys who was happy to golf all day.  But he didn't.  And now we can't joke anymore.

[Self-employed-swami]

I am sorry for your loss Nords.

[Mike]

I view the prospect of early retirement this way: I have a limited amount of time to live and have no idea how much of it I have.  Why would I spend more of this precious commodity than I absolutely have to on things I don't particularly enjoy doing just because they pay well?  Is extra retirement security really worth trading away years of my life? 

[Jamesqf]

Why would I spend more of this precious commodity than I absolutely have to on things I don't particularly enjoy doing...

My point exactly, just from the other direction.  Why on earth would I want to spend any of my precious time playing golf, fer gawdsakes, or doing most of the other things that are conventionally held out as things we ought to look forward to in retirement? 

But I do enjoy the mental stimulation that I get doing programming, just as (for instance) MMM enjoys doing his construction work, and I also get satisfaction knowing that what I'm doing is useful - that I'm crew and not just a passenger.  Now it's possible that I could find ways to get this same stimulation & satisfaction without being paid, but why, when I can get them and income too?

Seems like the problem is people who burden themselves with work they don't enjoy doing (and who let management add working conditions that make it even less enjoyable).  So the goal, for me, is not to be able to retire, but to acquire both skill and FU money enough that I can do work I like in a way that I want to do it.

[Spartana]

Why would I spend more of this precious commodity than I absolutely have to on things I don't particularly enjoy doing...

My point exactly, just from the other direction.  Why on earth would I want to spend any of my precious time playing golf, fer gawdsakes, or doing most of the other things that are conventionally held out as things we ought to look forward to in retirement? 

 

I think for most of us ERers we have many many interests and desires far beyond the "conventional" view of retirement and that is exactly why we want to retire early. Not to golf or sit around watching a box (computer screen or TV) or rock our lives away on thre front porch. We want to be able to pursue those many unconvntional, exciting, stimulating goals in life, to be the "pilot" of our lives and not just the "crew or passenger" of someone elses (which is how having a job feels like to me).  So while I completely understand why you or anyone would want to keep working a job the entirety of your life, it obviously fulfills you, I'm sure you can equally understand that for some of us, being work-free to pursue other goals fulfills us in a way that even a loved job doesn't. 

[RetiredAt63]

I don't know if people want to reopen this or let it lie - I just found it and wanted to comment. 

So many issues play into choosing early retirement or not.  Most of what was posted seems to apply more to men, although a few mentioned women's viewpoints.

I am in that transitional generation - women 10 years older were not expected to work after marriage, while those 10 years younger never questioned that they would work after marriage.  We were the ones who shifted society's viewpoint (decent birth control methods helped a lot there).  In that light, being able to work and being taken seriously at our jobs while we had husbands and children was almost seen as something we had to fight for, it wasn't just a given.  We had to prove we were "worth" higher education.  Again, those 10 years older were thought to be using that higher education for the benefit of their children, while we were using it for ourselves.  So once all that effort went into education and a job, it was not lightly abandoned.  Therefore, women old enough to remember that reality may not be as keen to retire, when a large chunk of society will not see them as retired, just as "homemakers back where they belong" - I know that is not many people here, but look around you.

Also, let's be real here, women generally live longer than men, although the gap is not as big as it used to be.  My retirement funds have to probably last me at least another 30 years, based on family history.  I hope to do some major spending (travel) in the next few years, then have lower financial needs while I am more of a homebody, then higher as I move into a probably more expensive lifestyle (senior's residences, assisted living).  Since none of us can predict our future health no matter how healthy we are now and how good our family history is, all these are unknowns that we have to plan for, however vaguely.

[SauseBoss]

I am a passenger, and I ride, and I ride, and I ride....
Retiring is still a dream for me, but every little conscious decision I make will result in getting me closer to my goal.
Retiring to me simply means having the choice. The choice to stop working, the choice to continue working, etc. Choice=Freedom. People have fought and died for my freedom. So I rather reach FI, and enjoy the freedom graciously given to me.