Trying to live on 100k

[MrsSpendyPants]

Hi!  I've lurked here for awhile but I'm at a point where we need help.  Two full time professionals and one toddler.  We work in commodities and I'm feeling as though we are hitting a downturn.  In a good market, we do well but in downturns we will usually be around 100k and there has even been a few months of unemployment.  I would like to get to the point where we live on the minimum of around 8k a month and I'm having trouble cutting down to it.

Budget:
2300   mtg (hoping to pay off by next year, might not be optimal but I want to do it regardless)
400   tractor payment (15k left but it's at 0% so I struggle with paying it off)
1400   property tax/disability insurance/life insurance (specific annual breakdown below)
1000   medical (12k OOP, we always max it)
105   water
140   cell (Straight Talk, three month plan)
155   comcast (internet only is 115, only other solutions are dish or cell phone related)
7   amazon
14   netflix
130   hair (every other month)
500   plumber (we live on 20 acres, there's almost always a ~500 property maintenance item every month.  It costs almost 2k to add gravel to our driveway every year for example, it's a mile long so too long to pay).
300   electric (~160 in summer, 500+ in winter, have had an energy audit and not any big changes that can be made.  We do not have natural gas in the area)
300   fuel (17 miles one way and we try and carpool but not always possible)
100   car maintenance (11 year 200k civic and 6 year 100k forester)
1100   daycare
600   animals (explained below)
500   groceries
75 kid (diapers, wipes, toys)
500 misc (house supplies/gifts (lots of young cousins and nephews)/clothes/makeup etc etc)
Total 9626

We have three old large dogs and seven cats so our animal expenses are gigantic.  We have a vet visit almost every month (~150 a month), dogs eat about 75 in food a month, cats eat about 150 in food a month (have several on diet restrictions) and then farm animals eat about 150 a month (just hobby, minimum income from farm).  Then we get flea/tick/heartworm medication at about 100 a month.

Annual expenses that are already included up there:
Life insurance - 1779.97 total (1MM 20 year for DH and 30 year for me)
Long term disability - 3114.46 (own occupation to 65, one year elimination period)
Car insurance/house insurance/mine subsidence/umbrella - 3000
Property taxes - 6000

Obviously miscellaneous expenses can be cut.  What else jumps out that definitely needs trimmed?

Thanks for your insight!

Edited on 8/11/19 to add details:

Gross Salary/Wages: Base salary is 100k between the two of us, 95% of the time we will be at least at 200k, and then good years will be between 300k-400k

Individual amounts of each Pre-tax deductions: Max out two 401ks, two backdoor roths, no HSA/FSA available (have asked to have it added), 675 for health insurance monthly (7.5k family deductible, 12k OOP which we always max so we average 1k of medical in addition to this)

Other Ordinary Income: Sold a tiny business and have ~1k residual coming in quarterly

Taxes: last year on 339k AGI, paid two max social security/medicare contributions so right around 20k, then 71k in federal, 12k in state, 4k in local so 1/3 in taxes not counting property tax/sales tax

Hours worked: 50  weekly each, Mon-Fri

Commute: 30-40 minutes each way, usually 20-30 but now have daycare to stop at, 19 miles one way

[terrifictim]

Can you provide information to flesh out the case study, specifically- income, assets and debt? For example, are you spending all your income every month or are you maximizing your retirement accounts? You'll get different responses depending on whether this is Hair-on-Fire Debt or just overly spendy.

First I thing I noticed is the total cost of your property. Between mortgage, property tax, plumber, electric, fuel - that's $3,900 or 40% of your budget. You didn't provide any information about why you have this home - but you are paying alot for it.
Secondly - there's beloved family pet and then there's having a zoo. Only you can decide if the animal cost is worth it - but that's $7,200 a year for the companionship.
Finally, you didn't talk about other taxes. Are you self-employed or are you paying federal, state, etc.?
 
I think the big thing for you is your property. You seem like you're spending way more than 1% per year on household maintenance. Are you wedded to the location or can you find somewhere else (condo, apartment) with a much cheaper electric + property maintenance cost?

[roomtempmayo]

We can talk about specific line items, but the size of your budget is being driven by living on a hobby farm with a significant mortgage, property taxes, and maintenance costs.  The blunt mustascian answer is that moving to a place without all of the maintenance costs is the low hanging fruit in your budget.  Everything else is details by comparison.

Edit: @terrifictim nailed it.

[notmyhand]

Can you provide information to flesh out the case study, specifically- income, assets and debt? For example, are you spending all your income every month or are you maximizing your retirement accounts? You'll get different responses depending on whether this is Hair-on-Fire Debt or just overly spendy.

First I thing I noticed is the total cost of your property. Between mortgage, property tax, plumber, electric, fuel - that's $3,900 or 40% of your budget. You didn't provide any information about why you have this home - but you are paying alot for it.
Secondly - there's beloved family pet and then there's having a zoo. Only you can decide if the animal cost is worth it - but that's $7,200 a year for the companionship.
Finally, you didn't talk about other taxes. Are you self-employed or are you paying federal, state, etc.?
 
I think the big thing for you is your property. You seem like you're spending way more than 1% per year on household maintenance. Are you wedded to the location or can you find somewhere else (condo, apartment) with a much cheaper electric + property maintenance cost?

I’ll look up the prompt and edit but we are maxing all available retirement (401ks and backdoor Roths) and have a 1mm networth in late 20s so not a hair on fire emergency but trying to cut back.  I’ll respond to the rest soon.  Thank you so much!  Great points!

[HPstache]

We can talk about specific line items, but the size of your budget is being driven by living on a hobby farm with a significant mortgage, property taxes, and maintenance costs.  The blunt mustascian answer is that moving to a place without all of the maintenance costs is the low hanging fruit in your budget.  Everything else is details by comparison.

Edit: @terrifictim nailed it.

This.

[six-car-habit]

***Are you wedded to the location or can you find somewhere else (condo, apartment) with a much cheaper electric + property maintenance cost? ***

 They may not be wedded to that particular location, but i'd say they are wedded to the hobby farm lifestyle. Which is ok, and maybe they can find a different house on 3 to 5 acres instead of the 20 acres they own.  But at this point in their life they won't be moving into an apartment / condo - It's just not an easy transition, as the hobby farm and activities sort of define their lifestyle  [ This would be like suggesting to me to sell all my vehicles , give up the garage and move into an apartment with 1 uncovered parking space to park a 1985 camry - i'd think "Pound sand buddy"- even though financially speaking you'd be totally correct ]. We have friends in a similar situation -[ bought acreage + house + it included a tractor, but they wanted a better tractor and spent ~ 20K on a new one, plus box grader attachements, post hole diggers for fencing, etc.]

 I'll assume part of the reason for having the tractor is to grade the extra long gravel driveway, and you have the gravel delivered, like 20 yards at a time ?

  The animals - all of them get spayed / neutered now if not already done, and you don't take on any additional "pets" or more livestock than you eat. Doesn't matter how cute the bunnies are, or if a friend has puppies and they are 'free'.  When fluffy passes on , they dont get replaced. Also our vet said "9 drops of the dog flea medicine onto the dog , and one drop of dog flea repellent onto the cat" -.... instant savings

 The long-term care insurance - I'm not sure how to justify keeping that, but so far we are in good health, and none of my elder relatives have needed it, so ???

 The life insurance - well i'm probably in the minority here, but we dont carry it. We have enough in my 401K to pay off the house, Spouse and kid will get >more than $2000 a month from social security if i die. Spouse plans on working another 15 or so years anyhow, so i would expect her to keep working if i die, and she would expect me to keep working if she dies.

 Is there some way either of you could work more from home [ commodities - like corn futures, and Brent crude pricing, buying bulk peaches from farmers ?? ] - to lower the daycare cost?  --toddler will be in kindergarden in a couple years.  Maybe that is a job that could be worked , before or after normal office hours.
 " Oh your home, ok Time for me to go to work, your watching jr. , and cooking dinner, and mucking the stalls, i'll be in the home office"

[Morning Glory]

Hello, I have a hobby-farm too, although not as many animals just yet.

Can you post income, hours worked, and commute distance for each spouse? Also assets/debts? This will help us to determine how much insurance you really need, also whether it is worth it to work and pay daycare.

Budget cuts:

Cut cable:40. While you're at it threaten to cancel the internet and they might give you a lower price. Or see if you can get DSL from the phone company, it's really not that bad.

Phone: 110- switch to Republic Wireless. I live in an area with poor signal and the wifi calling feature makes it easier to get a signal in the house. I have the no-data plan because there is WiFi pretty much everywhere I go. We pay by the year so it is $15/month each after taxes for me and husband.

Netflix/Amazon: -12-14- choose one or the other. If you choose Netflix switch to the $9 plan

There's $152, easy

Now some harder suggestions: can you get some schedule F income? You might be able to lower your property tax significantly. Talk to your county about what you would need to do to qualify for an ag exemption.

Hair: can you diy?
Car maintenance: seems high, can you diy some things like oil changes, brakes, etc?
Plumbing: you really need good diy skills if you are going to live in the country!!! Next time something breaks can you YouTube it instead of running to call the repair man? Now that you have cut cable you will have time to learn this.
Heat/ electric: can you get propane, or a way to burn wood, or a heat pump?? This one will cost $$$$ to fix but might be worth it. See if solar panels would pay off for you ( this one is highly region-dependent)
Groceries: seems high for 3 people, do you grow a garden?
Tractor: we paid cash for a 60-year- old tractor and it plows snow and grades gravel just fine. They are not difficult to repair yourself. Just something to consider.
Kid expenses: also seems high. Can you shop around for deals on diapers/ wipes?
Why do you pay for water if you live in the country?
Misc: stop shopping

I think you are probably over insured but I don't have enough information to be much help there.

[MrsSpendyPants]

Re: Trying to live on 100k
« Reply #7 on: Today at 05:49:29 AM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Answering on my phone so not able to quote and respond to all but to hit the big points -

1.  DH loves our property and doesn’t want to move but we’re not in a good school district so I have had a realtor looking for the past few months.  Moving into a better school district would automatically mean having to get a smaller parcel of land as the better school districts are much more dense and we can’t afford the few larger pieces that are available..  So I’m working on moving us to 5-10 acres instead of our 20.  In the meantime, we had planted trees on the property which should kick us over the 75% wooded number by next year and have us qualify for the forest exemption which hopefully reduces our property taxes by about half.

2. I’m actively trying to downsize the hobby animals but having a hard time giving up the dogs and cats.  Has anyone done so and felt okay?  I promised them forever and we can afford it, would be different if we were struggling.

3. Verizon is the only provider in our area so I need a Verizon vnmo (so cant use republic wireless).  Straight talk is cheapest I found but let me know if anyone knows of a cheaper one.

4.  I have threatened to cancel Comcast but they don’t care, they ran a line specifically for us and it sounds like they’re not willing to negotiate on our account and I’ve never gone through with my bluff. Our wired phone service here is a local provider and they don’t offer dsl as far as I can see.  Anyone have more information on this?

5.  Our grocery bills are high because my husband won’t give up the canned soda!  It’s the sugar free stuff but it’s 20%-30% of our grocery bill.  He doesn’t drink anything else.  I’ve tried buying bottled but he complains everything after the first drink isn’t the same.  Anyone have ideas here?

6. Yes we should have probably bought a used tractor.  Worth trying to sell ours and get a new one?  I expect ours is worth about 20k at this point as it’s 4 years old.

7. We do a lot of in house diy ourselves but we had trouble with the water line in this one so more than we could do.  We don’t do our own oil changes though.  Looks like two bottles of oil are about $40 plus then we have disposal costs.  Who does their own and is it worth it?

Thanks for the help!

[MrThatsDifferent]

Just replying to the soda thing, have him read this: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/diet-soda-and-dementia-what-you-need-to-know/

With all that you got going on, can he afford to risk dementia? It’s an awful way to live.

Then, have him watch this (or something equivalent): https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_AWvrx1unNM

If you can clean with it, you don’t want it inside you.

I switched to sparkling water with flavor that is much cheaper and easier in the system.

[Bernard]

There are moral limits woven between money and life. That's the reason why you don't go and shoot somebody you don't know in the head, even if you never met that target and are 100% sure you get away with it, no matter how high the payout is. It's the reason why you don't abandon your kids even though they are difficult sometimes and the oldest one eats too much. And that's the reason why you don't kick out your dogs and cats if you promised them to take care of them as long as you can. You can make the decision not to replace them once they die, but you don't just kick them to the curb to save money. If you did that, I'd have zero respect for you as a human being. Your response tells me that you are on the right track. Save on soda, on other consumables, reduce the property from 20 to 5 acres if possible, but don't abandon those who live under your mercy to save a buck.

[mistymoney]

Re: Trying to live on 100k
« Reply #7 on: Today at 05:49:29 AM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Answering on my phone so not able to quote and respond to all but to hit the big points -

1.  DH loves our property and doesn’t want to move but we’re not in a good school district so I have had a realtor looking for the past few months.  Moving into a better school district would automatically mean having to get a smaller parcel of land as the better school districts are much more dense and we can’t afford the few larger pieces that are available..  So I’m working on moving us to 5-10 acres instead of our 20.  In the meantime, we had planted trees on the property which should kick us over the 75% wooded number by next year and have us qualify for the forest exemption which hopefully reduces our property taxes by about half.

2. I’m actively trying to downsize the hobby animals but having a hard time giving up the dogs and cats.  Has anyone done so and felt okay?  I promised them forever and we can afford it, would be different if we were struggling.

3. Verizon is the only provider in our area so I need a Verizon vnmo (so cant use republic wireless).  Straight talk is cheapest I found but let me know if anyone knows of a cheaper one.

4.  I have threatened to cancel Comcast but they don’t care, they ran a line specifically for us and it sounds like they’re not willing to negotiate on our account and I’ve never gone through with my bluff. Our wired phone service here is a local provider and they don’t offer dsl as far as I can see.  Anyone have more information on this?

5.  Our grocery bills are high because my husband won’t give up the canned soda!  It’s the sugar free stuff but it’s 20%-30% of our grocery bill.  He doesn’t drink anything else.  I’ve tried buying bottled but he complains everything after the first drink isn’t the same.  Anyone have ideas here?

6. Yes we should have probably bought a used tractor.  Worth trying to sell ours and get a new one?  I expect ours is worth about 20k at this point as it’s 4 years old.

7. We do a lot of in house diy ourselves but we had trouble with the water line in this one so more than we could do.  We don’t do our own oil changes though.  Looks like two bottles of oil are about $40 plus then we have disposal costs.  Who does their own and is it worth it?

Thanks for the help!

Keep them! Just don't replace them as they naturally find their way over the rainbow.

[LifeHappens]

4.  I have threatened to cancel Comcast but they don’t care, they ran a line specifically for us and it sounds like they’re not willing to negotiate on our account and I’ve never gone through with my bluff. Our wired phone service here is a local provider and they don’t offer dsl as far as I can see.  Anyone have more information on this?

Unfortunately, you're probably stuck with Comcast and they know it. My parents live in a rural area and have it even worse than you. No DSL, no cable. Their internet options are 1) satellite or 2) cellular wifi. The Digital Divide is real!

I agree with the others that your COL to be so rural on such a large piece of land is what's eating you alive. My parents did the same thing and have stuck with it. They're now in their late 60's and at some point will have to part with the land because they can't keep up with it. I wish they had done it 20 years ago, or better yet, purchased a more reasonable property from the start. Don't wear yourself down and spend all your money to try to sustain your hobby farm. It will take everything you can give it and more.

[2Birds1Stone]

Ditch the toddler and move into an apartment.

[waltworks]

Sounds like your hobby farm is more of a fossil-fueled financial catastrophe, to me. You're spending a ton of time/money/fuel/electricity on this place - mile long gravel driveway?!? WTF?

What, if anything, do you actually grow on the land/do with it? What are you going to do about school in 2-3 years when your kid is old enough?

I guess it's a bit hard to understand the motivation to live where you do, given that it sounds like you're not actually trying to be farmers.

-W

[reeshau]

Taking a shot at a little reverse brainstorming...

You might find some inspiration from Clay Bottom Farm, a 12-month farming operation in Northern Indiana.  They are farmers (no other jobs) and are down from 5 acres to just 1.  They are gaining fame as "the lean farm," and actually conduct classes on site.  They are the antithesis of industrial farming.

http://claybottomfarm.com/

Even if your husband had to keep a hobby, you could be a lot more modest operation.  Are there any precedents / regulations for an urban farm in your area?

[Neustache]

Can you go into more detail about your medical?  12K per year - is that premiums or deductible?   If it's deductible, is that the best plan you can get?  We are mostly healthy, and I could see having a year where we max our our deductible...but it sounds like this is an every year occurrence for you? 

[Tuskalusa]

Two small suggestions:

1. The tractor:  Since it’s newer and in good shape, I’d recommend throwing your resources at paying that off. Take whatever extra you’re throwing at the mortgage and pay off the tractor. Yes, the tractor is at 0%, but it’s eating up your cash flow and it can be quickly paid off. Then in the future, adopt a policy of paying cash for cars/tractors/etc. This will encourage you to consider used options that are often more cost-effective.

2. Energy costs:  Your electricity costs are high. Is there an ROI to installing solar to get those costs down?  This would assume that you decide to stay on your property, of course.

[oldladystache]

2. I’m actively trying to downsize the hobby animals but having a hard time giving up the dogs and cats.  Has anyone done so and felt okay?  I promised them forever and we can afford it, would be different if we were struggling.

You certainly shouldn't dump them, but if you could find someone who would like to have them you shouldn't feel guilty.

[Kwill]

If it's true that your property taxes will be cut in half next year and your mortgage will be eliminated, then that gets you easily under your target amount per month. But gosh, that's a big budget to have as your low target. Before clicking on the thread, I thought maybe the title was satirical, but I suppose all these things add up.

I would agree with the others about cutting some of the subscriptions. Cable, Netflix, and Amazon seem redundant, so I'd pick one or maybe two.

What sorts of things do you buy when you buy groceries? That's an area where basic habits can make a big difference. I find I spend less when I am intentional about stocking the pantry and freezer. Then I am just buying the fresh items I need to round out meals. If you can provide some of the fresh items from the farm and garden, so much the better.

Hundreds a month on soda is an awful lot. I guess if that's really important to him, then it has to be treated as a fixed cost to work around, but if he could switch to drinking tea, for example, that could save a huge amount. Otherwise, maybe just stock up on the soda when it's on sale.

Could you lease out some fields to local farmers for hay? Or are there other ways to reduce the amount of the farm that you need to spend money to deal with? Planting the trees sounds like it was a good move.

Would it save anything to switch dog food and cat food brands?

[Gail2000]

What do you grow? Do you have a garden? My mother in law picks up apples of her neighbours lawn and makes jelly. You may need to live off the land more to really delve into the farming lifestyle.
It’s 20 acres of forest? My uncle participated in several experimental projects to get a tax credit ( Canadian here) he grew barley and hops, gingko, had a portion of his 300 acres as red pine for hydro poles. There might be options for tax reductions. Even if you are in another country.

[MayDay]

It sounds like you have some animals but don't actually farm. What is the tractor for- just plowing the drive and spreading gravel?

None of your expenses are wildly high except the farm and pet ones. You shouldn't dump pets, obviously, but really.... That is a LOT of pets. I would definitely consider letting friends/family know that some of yours are available for adoption.

[ATR]

PTF! Would also love to see pictures of this farm and the animals :-)

[BrightFIRE]

5.  Our grocery bills are high because my husband won’t give up the canned soda!  It’s the sugar free stuff but it’s 20%-30% of our grocery bill.  He doesn’t drink anything else.  I’ve tried buying bottled but he complains everything after the first drink isn’t the same.  Anyone have ideas here?

I'm only gonna comment on this one. Sounds like he's made up his mind ahead of time, so isn't actually trying to change. Have you presented him with a bill for his habit? Does he know how much it costs per year? I couldn't get my SO to give up soda using the health angle, but when I calculated how much he spent on soda in a year, then showed him the 25x of how much extra money we'd need to save for him to maintain that habit for the rest of his life, he stopped immediately. In solidarity, I gave up coffee and switched to drinking tea (he didn't ask, I just did it), which coincidentally cured my heartburn, so it was a win-win-win.

I eased his transition from soda by making "spa water" - pitchers of orange-vanilla infused water, or cucumber mint, or aquas frescas, anything to give the water some flavor. After about 6 months, he quit drinking that and likes plain water just fine. It will take getting used to, like anything else, but your husband is not even trying.

[partgypsy]

I am confused by this post.
You want to get it under X a year and your first line item is a high mortgage, which you say you "hope" to pay off next year. You "hope" or you plan to? What is your mortgage balance and will it be paid off next year? If yes it will be paid off, just hang in there. If not, I agree with others that too high of a percent of your income goes to housing. If you are planning on relocating, seriously consider how much money you plan to sink into your housing/hobby farm costs. This is a large expense even on your very healthy income. 
Medical costs. I have a deductible plan. While I do have years with additional expenses, it is certainly not every year. If you have a high deductible plan and you regularly have high regular expected expenses, crunch the numbers on available healthcare plans and possibly switch.

Cost of animals. They are your pets. Don't have to get rid of them but don't replace after they pass on.
I am surprised at the cost of the tractor, even used cost 20K. I don't know if this is helpful advice or not, but see if you could sell tractor and get a used one in cash if you think you could get a decent used one for cash. That would save you 400 a month. 

Childcare. How many more years before child in school? Again if you don't need childcare in 2, 3 years just hang in there. Also in my district they have a pre-k program. If they have that where you are, will save you 1 year of preschool/daycare. 

[theskyisblue]

Do you live near a larger, urban area?  Can you throw kid's birthday parties at your farm?  In my HCOL area, those usually run 2 hours and start at 300 for something like 10-15 kids and involve things like feeding the goats, petting the bunnies, trying to make the donkey bray (wow, they are loud) and a pony ride.  Other people with animals (and trailers) bring animals to kids parties.  If you did that twice a month, you could cover the cost of animal feed and they would at least be paying for their own food.

Alternatively, you could get MORE animals and create some kind of animal sanctuary but that seems both anti-mustachian and a lot of work.

I just wanted to mention that they are in their 20s and have a 1MM net worth.  As long as they continue to save, they can probably choose a date to retire fairly soon even with the inefficient farm situation.

[MrsSpendyPants]

Can you go into more detail about your medical?  12K per year - is that premiums or deductible?   If it's deductible, is that the best plan you can get?  We are mostly healthy, and I could see having a year where we max our our deductible...but it sounds like this is an every year occurrence for you?

12k is the out of pocket max that we have hit for the last three years in a row so I just plan on hitting it. 

Do you live near a larger, urban area?  Can you throw kid's birthday parties at your farm?  In my HCOL area, those usually run 2 hours and start at 300 for something like 10-15 kids and involve things like feeding the goats, petting the bunnies, trying to make the donkey bray (wow, they are loud) and a pony ride.  Other people with animals (and trailers) bring animals to kids parties.  If you did that twice a month, you could cover the cost of animal feed and they would at least be paying for their own food.

Alternatively, you could get MORE animals and create some kind of animal sanctuary but that seems both anti-mustachian and a lot of work.

I just wanted to mention that they are in their 20s and have a 1MM net worth.  As long as they continue to save, they can probably choose a date to retire fairly soon even with the inefficient farm situation.

I would be afraid of the liability aspect of it, I can imagine someones toddler tripping and falling and wanting to sue us personally even if we had business insurance since the property has our house on it. 

I am confused by this post.
You want to get it under X a year and your first line item is a high mortgage, which you say you "hope" to pay off next year. You "hope" or you plan to? What is your mortgage balance and will it be paid off next year? If yes it will be paid off, just hang in there. If not, I agree with others that too high of a percent of your income goes to housing. If you are planning on relocating, seriously consider how much money you plan to sink into your housing/hobby farm costs. This is a large expense even on your very healthy income. 
Medical costs. I have a deductible plan. While I do have years with additional expenses, it is certainly not every year. If you have a high deductible plan and you regularly have high regular expected expenses, crunch the numbers on available healthcare plans and possibly switch.

Cost of animals. They are your pets. Don't have to get rid of them but don't replace after they pass on.
I am surprised at the cost of the tractor, even used cost 20K. I don't know if this is helpful advice or not, but see if you could sell tractor and get a used one in cash if you think you could get a decent used one for cash. That would save you 400 a month. 

Childcare. How many more years before child in school? Again if you don't need childcare in 2, 3 years just hang in there. Also in my district they have a pre-k program. If they have that where you are, will save you 1 year of preschool/daycare. 

We have 150k left on our 450k property.  We have paid 100k each year thus far and it is our focus for this next twelve months so as long as our industry doesn't bottom out, we should be paid off next year.

4 years until the kid is in school and then it's part time for a bit.

Yes, really need to do something about the animals.  The tractor actually isn't that expensive as it's not a full size tractor.  When you start to look up the cost of farm equipment, you quickly realize the capital farmers have sitting in their garages!  Problem is I am not a farmer.

For everyone asking about farm income, there isn't any as I currently do not have the energy to do anything else.  I will set off an area for a garden for next year though and start getting the soil ready.  That is a good idea and something my toddler will probably enjoy as well.

[MrsSpendyPants]

Two small suggestions:

1. The tractor:  Since it’s newer and in good shape, I’d recommend throwing your resources at paying that off. Take whatever extra you’re throwing at the mortgage and pay off the tractor. Yes, the tractor is at 0%, but it’s eating up your cash flow and it can be quickly paid off. Then in the future, adopt a policy of paying cash for cars/tractors/etc. This will encourage you to consider used options that are often more cost-effective.

2. Energy costs:  Your electricity costs are high. Is there an ROI to installing solar to get those costs down?  This would assume that you decide to stay on your property, of course.

We're 75% wooded unfortunately so no ROI for solar.  Had someone come check it out.

As for water, we are on city water but have a well pump as back up although it hasn't been working since before we bought the house so not sure what it would take to get it up and running.  The cost of electricity for it though may not be worth it?

[former player]

You are spending £4k a month to maintain your "farm", with no farm animals, no crops, not even a garden, because you are too busy earning the money to pay to maintain the land to actually do anything with it.  And even if you had the time and money you say you are "not a farmer".

That is the definition of futility.

I mean, I know both farmers and gardeners.  If you haven't yet managed to put in even a basic kitchen garden you are neither.

I think you have an idea of who you are which has nothing to do with reality, and now reality is kicking your butt.  The first thing you need to do is understand that who you are is not the person who should be living on this property.  You need to sell it and buy a nice manageable suburban house in the school district you want, and come to terms with that is who you are and nothing wrong with it.

[MrsSpendyPants]

You are spending £4k a month to maintain your "farm", with no farm animals, no crops, not even a garden, because you are too busy earning the money to pay to maintain the land to actually do anything with it.  And even if you had the time and money you say you are "not a farmer".

That is the definition of futility.

I mean, I know both farmers and gardeners.  If you haven't yet managed to put in even a basic kitchen garden you are neither.

I think you have an idea of who you are which has nothing to do with reality, and now reality is kicking your butt.  The first thing you need to do is understand that who you are is not the person who should be living on this property.  You need to sell it and buy a nice manageable suburban house in the school district you want, and come to terms with that is who you are and nothing wrong with it.

It's a good question to stare at and consider.

To give some background - 3 years ago, I made money with the animals and DH worked in the city.  I only brought in about 30k net so when the possibility to make a change happened, I jumped at it.  I have a hard time letting go of possibly earning a lot of money and retiring back to that.  Plus it is the perfect place for a kid to grow up, sans the poor school district.  I am really torn about it and I am hoping we somehow come across a place that is in a better school district that still has a little bit of acreage that I love and it makes the decision easier.

But yes you're right, spending lots of money maintaining a property we are not using.

[Villanelle]

You are spending £4k a month to maintain your "farm", with no farm animals, no crops, not even a garden, because you are too busy earning the money to pay to maintain the land to actually do anything with it.  And even if you had the time and money you say you are "not a farmer".

That is the definition of futility.

I mean, I know both farmers and gardeners.  If you haven't yet managed to put in even a basic kitchen garden you are neither.

I think you have an idea of who you are which has nothing to do with reality, and now reality is kicking your butt.  The first thing you need to do is understand that who you are is not the person who should be living on this property.  You need to sell it and buy a nice manageable suburban house in the school district you want, and come to terms with that is who you are and nothing wrong with it.

It's a good question to stare at and consider.

To give some background - 3 years ago, I made money with the animals and DH worked in the city.  I only brought in about 30k net so when the possibility to make a change happened, I jumped at it.  I have a hard time letting go of possibly earning a lot of money and retiring back to that.  Plus it is the perfect place for a kid to grow up, sans the poor school district.  I am really torn about it and I am hoping we somehow come across a place that is in a better school district that still has a little bit of acreage that I love and it makes the decision easier.

But yes you're right, spending lots of money maintaining a property we are not using.

The perfect place for a kid to grow up in is a house where mom and dad aren't so busy that they can't find time to plant a garden they'd like to have.  Kids can have "perfect" in small urban apartments and bedroom communities, and many other types of house.  They will only consider it less-than-perfect if you let your own biases bleed through to give them the impression they are missing out or that a change is to something less-than.  If you project excitement about the new situation and emphasize the good things  ("so many kids to play with within a couple minutes' walk, and the absolute best library within walking distance and it offers a really cool STEAM workshop!, and mommy and daddy will be home 40 minutes earlier every day so was can go for a walk as a family before dinner each night, and...").

A farm where mom and dad are stressed and too busy, or a "regular" home where mom and dad have time to engage with the kids?  Think about which is really more "perfect".

[waltworks]

If you have trees overhanging your house so much that your roof is obscured, you don't have a solar problem, you have a fire prevention and trees falling on the house problem.

The amount of wooded land has nothing to do with your solar potential unless you thought people meant a solar farm.

-W

[roomtempmayo]

On the energy front, 10 wooded acres will have more than enough dead timber annually to provide all of your heat.  With a modern, highly efficient wood stove, burning that wood for heat will be somewhere between carbon neutral and carbon negative compared with letting the timber decay in woods.

[Gail2000]

You said you “only made 30k”. Did you factor in the expenses that went along with being employed (ie. daycare, transport, clothes etc.) also the tax exemptions that would reduce your taxes ( percentage of home office, and work expence? I know working from home has its down side to like missing the social aspect ( certainly why I could not make it as a stay-at-home mother). Anyways it really as this thread has turned to what you really want. I didn’t think there’s a bad answer if it means happiness ( from the options you described).

[Eowyn_MI]

I am confused by this post.
You want to get it under X a year and your first line item is a high mortgage, which you say you "hope" to pay off next year. You "hope" or you plan to? What is your mortgage balance and will it be paid off next year? If yes it will be paid off, just hang in there. If not, I agree with others that too high of a percent of your income goes to housing. If you are planning on relocating, seriously consider how much money you plan to sink into your housing/hobby farm costs. This is a large expense even on your very healthy income. 
 

We have 150k left on our 450k property.  We have paid 100k each year thus far and it is our focus for this next twelve months so as long as our industry doesn't bottom out, we should be paid off next year.

If your industry does not bottom out then you should have no problem meeting the expenses for your current lifestyle.  Also, if you get the mortgage paid off in the next 12 months then you will be under that 8k per month spending goal without making any other changes.  However, if trying to pay off the mortgage in 12 months is stressing you out then is it really worth it?  Can you adjust your goal to pay off the mortgage in the next 18 months? 

Or maybe you can save up all the extra mortgage payments over the next 12 months and then pay it off in a lump sum.  This way, if your industry does bottom out then you will have a cash reserve to get you through the period of lowered income.  (You will have to extend your goal of paying off the mortgage but that is better than running out of money.)

The question still remains, is your current lifestyle the one that you want?  It's more expensive than some other lifestyles but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't keep it. 

[Cassie]

At one point we had 4 old dogs and medications and illness were costing a fortune. As they all passed we decided no more rescuing old dogs. Now we have a 5 and 2 year old. They are small so expenses much lower. As they age they will get more expensive but with only 2 it’s fine. You need to honor your commitment. Your child won’t be going to school for 4 years so you have plenty of time to find the right home. Also depending on where you move to they may have limits on the number of animals you can have. We were over the legal limit for 7 years but thankfully no one complained.